Residency length

[Telekinesis]

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Ok is this total bs or what
I thought neurosurgery residency was much longer

http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...3edd4e91945f8a2b86256f850071ae49?OpenDocument

 

[Telekinesis]

so basically the longest a residency can last is 6 years

 

[Spin]

so basically the longest a residency can last is 6 years

I think some super-specialized fields end up having a longer total residency, because you do your initial residency and then a fellowship. Example: to become a reproductive endocrinologist, one might complete a 4 year ob/gyn residency and then do a 3 year reproductive endocrinology fellowship = 7 years of residency. I might be wrong, but I think surgical super-specialties can take a longer time to train for too. But yeah, the basic residencies that you have to go through on the way seem to be a maximum of 6 years long. There's an end in sight!

 

[BigRedBeta]

so basically the longest a residency can last is 6 years

No. The minimal length of training for Neurosurgery would be 6 years, but the maximum is not defined. Most Neurosurgery programs last 7 years, but some last for 8. Some general surgery residencies which are typically 5 years in the length may add 2 years of research to reach a total of 7.

Fellowships may be anywhere from 1-5 years depending on the field or combination of fields you enter. So for example after a 7 year Neurosurgery residency, a person may go on to complete a 1 year endovascular neurosurg fellowship to reach 8 years. Or someone may choose, after completing a 3 year pediatrics residency to complete a 5 year combined pediatric critical care (PICU) and pediatric cardiology fellowship for a total of 8 years (if they did a 4 year combined internal medicine and pediatrics residency, that'd be 9 years of training - they could end up being board certified in 4 different specialties: IM, Peds, Peds Critical Care and Peds Cardiology).

Bottom line, depending on your interests, you can be in training for a very long time.

 

[mvenus929]

And... at the rate they're putting in work hour restrictions, residencies may end up being longer by the time you get up there.

 

[Law2Doc]

so basically the longest a residency can last is 6 years

Agree with BigRedBeta. Some neurosurgery programs are six years. Many are seven. Also bear in mind that in some of the academic surgical subspecialty paths, it's not uncommon to take a year or two mid-residency to do research, so that can push the time out from start to finish to as much as 9 years. And then many in the surgical fields do fellowships after residency. They get a little less supervision and a little more responsibility, but the pay is still pretty low.

I know plenty of folks who took a full decade of residency/research/fellowship after med school before they became attendings at an academic center.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I dunno how I feel about saying " the longest a residency can last is 6 years." Like its no big deal. Thats a long time! And as others have stated, if you take time off to do research, or complete a fellowship after then it gets much longer.

But 6 years is a long time. Even someone who went straight through college to medical school will be 26 when they finish med school, so 32 when they finish a 6 year residency. Thats 6 years of making 50-70k/year while building interest on your 250k debt. 6 years of it being fairly difficult to start a family, buy a house etc.

 

[alwaysaangel]

But, the income that is at the end of the tunnel for those doctors is rewarding and *worth* the time. A doctor making $400k (plastic surgery, interventional cardiology, and the like) will not have much trouble paying down debt.

No they won't, but not until they are done with residency. And again, its more trying to buy a house and manage living costs during those 6 years that I personally find depressing.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Yes, for those that are single. Those that are married will not have much trouble.

Unless their spouse doesn't work 😉

 

[Law2Doc]

But, the income that is at the end of the tunnel for those doctors is rewarding and *worth* the time. A doctor making $400k (plastic surgery, interventional cardiology, and the like) will not have much trouble paying down debt.

Bear in mind that money has different "value" based on when you get it. The "time value of money" is a basic finance concept that premeds seldom understand, and is part of the reason a basic finance course should probably be mandatory for anyone receiving a professional degree. Making $400k in a decade is still decent money compared to the average working stiff, but it is not the same as making $400k right out of med school. It's not even the same as making $300k right out of med school, or even $200k right out of college. You have to discount to net present value. It's the reason lottery winnings are either paid out as $1,000,000 over twenty years of a single $400k-ish lump sum up front -- they end up being the exact same amount of money once you run it through a simple annuity calculation that accounts for the net present value, prevailing interest rate, etc. Basically it's why someone telling you "give me $100 today and I'll give you back $200 a decade after you finish med school" is generally a sucker's bet. You had more "value" with the money today even though the face value was half. So don't get hung up on the number you will maybe see in a decade. The dude with the smaller income who starts getting it today often ends up with more value and on top of that doesn't bear the risk of something happening in the short term that ends his chances of a decent paycheck (ie illness, healthcare reform, malpractice liability issues, etc).

 

[Law2Doc]

I know all about that topic. I was referring to being able to manage finances while in a training stage for so long.

Not hard to manage money if you don't got any.


I think the OP et al have to realize that it doesn't matter so much how long the residency is, because you will be practicing in your field of interest during that time. So you will have achieved one of the more major goals already at this point. The income will come later, and it never will be as much as you think as a premed. But you didn't go into medicine for the money, hopefully. You did it because you were interested. And you can satisfy your interests pretty well during residency. Probably more than you ever wanted.

 

[coldweatherblue]

Also remember that many physicians complete fellowships after finishing residency in order to be more marketable or practice in an area of interest. For example, a typical training of a pediatric surgeon is 4 years med school -> 5 years g-surgery residency -> 2+ years research -> 2 years peds fellowship. Similar with CT surgery, transplant surgery, etc. Medicine subspecialities can be similar, interventional cards: 3 years IM -> 3 years cards -> 1-2 years interventional.

Ultimately though I get the feeling that by the time you're in a position to consider fellowship, the bad hours, lack of income, and lack of autonomy are overshadowed by the desire to practice something you enjoy and set yourself up for a great career. Perspectives change as you progress through training. I used to think residency sounded like a long long time (and it still seems so sometimes) but the closer it gets the more I realize that it's absolutely necessary to practice as a physician and so the years are more of an opportunity for essential training that must be taken advantage of than a "burden". Being able to practice with supervision is a luxury you only get in residency.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

I think this is a pretty nice resource for beginning to think about residencies. I haven't made an account yet, but apparently there is a ton more info if you do.

https://www.aamc.org/students/medstudents/cim/63550/specialties/

 

[iqe2010]

What kind of doctor do you become in a Pathology residency?

 

[alwaysaangel]

What kind of doctor do you become in a Pathology residency?

An unemployed pathologist.

They do the microscopy diagnosis for hospitals. Look at tissues and diagnosing the pathology on the molecular level. But seriously, its a massively overly populated specialty and its very difficult to find jobs in desirable areas.

 

[iqe2010]

An unemployed pathologist.

They do the microscopy diagnosis for hospitals. Look at tissues and diagnosing the pathology on the molecular level. But seriously, its a massively overly populated specialty and its very difficult to find jobs in desirable areas.

Thanks. Sounds like a drag..lol.

 

[Telekinesis]

Naw I'm not concerned about the residency length itself, I just heard that done residencies are like ten years from other people