Residency stories

[sweetsaja]

What are the worst residency stories you've heard? How bad can it really be??

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[stooges287]

I would suggest you go into the residency forums and poke around there. Asking a forum for pre-meds isn't a good way to get the answers you're looking for.

 

[paramedtech]

What are the worst residency stories you've heard? How bad can it really be??

The worst thing I have heard is from my cousin who is doing an IM residency, and just worked 100 hours in a week for the third consecutive week, just a note though this isn't in the states.

 

[ILikeFood]

Everything I know about residency I learned from Grey's Anatomy. They treat patients in between the massive fornication.

 

[linguini]

I would suggest you go into the residency forums and poke around there. Asking a forum for pre-meds isn't a good way to get the answers you're looking for.

I agree. And being a pre-med asking "how bad can it really be?" is just cruising for a bruising.

 

[Dr Roboto]

Everything I know about residency I learned from Grey's Anatomy. They treat patients in between the massive fornication.

I can't wait.

 

[TexasPhysician]

A residency program at my friend's institution (which will remain nameless) has already had half of its interns quit. If you don't know, the working year began what.....4 months ago.

Still, some fields are harder than others in residency. Some programs aren't bad at all.

 

[mikedc813]

I agree that this should have been posted in the resident's forum. But being that I am looking around here, I'll let you all know that from my experience intern year in Medicine isn't too bad. I actually kinda like it, and I'm not even going into Medicine. You'll find that experiences vary GREATLY from program to program.

 

[Law2Doc]

What are the worst residency stories you've heard? How bad can it really be??

No, I disagree that this should be moved -- it is a pre-allo's question about the future, not something of interest to residents.

Depends what you consider "bad". Here's what I've seen. In a lot of residencies, you are "on-call" every third or fourth night. Meaning every third or fourth night you don't go home, you stay there taking care of patients in the hospital. Sometimes you get an hour or two to sleep before your beeper goes off, sometimes you don't. Regardless, you are expected to be at the top of your game and make all good decisions, and keep a dozen patients who are desperately trying to die alive until the next day. Weekends are basically nonexistent -- you usually get 4 days off per month that may or may not be on a weekend.

So try pulling an all-nighter every third night and working on your schoolwork 80 hours/week and you will have a sense of the hours a lot of residents are working, but not the stress. Add to those hours some life or death decisions, and some well rested attendings who want to round on patients for 5 hours on your post-call day when you want to get out of there and go sleep, and you will have a some sense of the lifestyle. And all this for about $40k.

Residents are the grunt workers in the healthcare machine. They work crazy hours for low pay and are the attendings' whipping boys. But it's really not so much that anything bad happens to them, it's the overall lifestyle. Things suck when you are terminally tired and overworked, and when the expectation is that you know everything but you really don't have time to sit down and learn it. It's trial by fire and you reportedly learn a ton about patient care. It used to be a lot worse when there was no 80 hour average work week. And even worse before that when residents were called "residents" because they lived in dorms within the hospital.

 

[mikedc813]

No, I disagree that this should be moved -- it is a pre-allo's question about the future, not something of interest to residents.

Depends what you consider "bad". Here's what I've seen. In a lot of residencies, you are "on-call" every third or fourth night. Meaning every third or fourth night you don't go home, you stay there taking care of patients in the hospital. Sometimes you get an hour or two to sleep before your beeper goes off, sometimes you don't. Regardless, you are expected to be at the top of your game and make all good decisions, and keep a dozen patients who are desperately trying to die alive until the next day. Weekends are basically nonexistent -- you usually get 4 days off per month that may or may not be on a weekend.

So try pulling an all-nighter every third night and working on your schoolwork 80 hours/week and you will have a sense of the hours a lot of residents are working, but not the stress. Add to those hours some life or death decisions, and some well rested attendings who want to round on patients for 5 hours on your post-call day when you want to get out of there and go sleep, and you will have a some sense of the lifestyle. And all this for about $40k.

Residents are the grunt workers in the healthcare machine. They work crazy hours for low pay and are the attendings' whipping boys. But it's really not so much that anything bad happens to them, it's the overall lifestyle. Things suck when you are terminally tired and overworked, and when the expectation is that you know everything but you really don't have time to sit down and learn it. It's trial by fire and you reportedly learn a ton about patient care. It used to be a lot worse when there was no 80 hour average work week. And even worse before that when residents were called "residents" because they lived in dorms within the hospital.

The way you put it, I should probably hate what I'm doing now. But as an intern I can attest that my life isn't a living hell. Sure you're tired here and there, but you're doing good for people and it keeps you motivated. Residency can be tough, but it's entirely manageable.

 

[Law2Doc]

The way you put it, I should probably hate what I'm doing now. But as an intern I can attest that my life isn't a living hell. Sure you're tired here and there, but you're doing good for people and it keeps you motivated. Residency can be tough, but it's entirely manageable.

Ok, but is any of the above that I've observed inaccurate in your opinion? I don't think I said you have to hate what you are doing, but rather that you are overworked, underpaid and underappreciated. You are paying your dues as an apprentice. There aren't going to be "horror stories" as the OP seems to be seeking so much as sleep deprivation and stress issues. Anyway, that's my take from the residents I know and have taken call with.

 

[pianola]

The way you put it, I should probably hate what I'm doing now. But as an intern I can attest that my life isn't a living hell. Sure you're tired here and there, but you're doing good for people and it keeps you motivated. Residency can be tough, but it's entirely manageable.

Is your schedule similar to what L2D suggests, Mike? I mean the hours, and stuff?

 

[MrBurns10]

Is your schedule similar to what L2D suggests, Mike? I mean the hours, and stuff?

I'm not Mike, but I'll say that every program is different. If you go into medicine or peds, for example, you can definitely expect to be on q3-q4. But how many months you're on q4 call depends on the program. I've heard of as little as 5 months of inpatient call and as many as 10 in any given year. Your life won't be too pleasant for those months, but you will also have consult and outpatient months as well as electives where your call schedule will be nicer and you won't be putting in 80 hours.

Now if you go into gen surg...well, good luck

 

[Fiko18]

A friend had 72 hours straight in the hospital

 

[musicalmedicine]

Everything I know about residency I learned from Grey's Anatomy. They treat patients in between the massive fornication.

hahahaha!

 

[WannaBePreMed]

A residency program at my friend's institution (which will remain nameless) has already had half of its interns quit. If you don't know, the working year began what.....4 months ago.

Still, some fields are harder than others in residency. Some programs aren't bad at all.

I can't imagine someone quitting after all the effort that they've put in to medicine.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

The way you put it, I should probably hate what I'm doing now. But as an intern I can attest that my life isn't a living hell. Sure you're tired here and there, but you're doing good for people and it keeps you motivated. Residency can be tough, but it's entirely manageable.

Pay no attention. Law2Doc is one of those who likes to make everything seem like the worst, most horrible type of torture imagineable. He was probably one of those kids who liked to freak out kindergartners "dude, you will NEVER survive first grade! It's just awful."

 

[WannaBePreMed]

"dude, you will NEVER survive first grade! It's just awful."

That's what everyone told me, look where I am now, 3rd grade baby

If there are people out there who survive residency than you can too. Don't worry about it until it's in the near future; now's not the time to worry.

 

[Jolie South]

Pay no attention. Law2Doc is one of those who likes to make everything seem like the worst, most horrible type of torture imagineable. He was probably one of those kids who liked to freak out kindergartners "dude, you will NEVER survive first grade! It's just awful."

yea, i really don't think that's the case.

a lot of premeds say, "i will do whatever it takes to be a doctor cause it's so worth it. i'll even surrender my salary." they say this without even having an idea of what it takes. now, i realize that i'm far removed from residency but i have lived in the "real world" and i can say that i wouldn't forego a salary to be a martyr for medicine.

providing info about what's ahead in the "worst case scenario" is hardly saying that you'll never get through it, but allowing you to gauge whether you want to try.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

yea, i really don't think that's the case.

a lot of premeds say, "i will do whatever it takes to be a doctor cause it's so worth it. i'll even surrender my salary." they say this without even having an idea of what it takes. now, i realize that i'm far removed from residency but i have lived in the "real world" and i can say that i wouldn't forego a salary to be a martyr for medicine.

providing info about what's ahead in the "worst case scenario" is hardly saying that you'll never get through it, but allowing you to gauge whether you want to try.

I've lived in the real world too being a nontrad with a career, but I find L2D's posts always so doom and gloomy. About everything. About med school, about rotations, about residency, about practice. Never does he offer a light at the end of the tunnel. It's always doom and gloom and it gets old. This also isn't the first time this topic has come up.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've lived in the real world too being a nontrad with a career, but I find L2D's posts always so doom and gloomy. About everything. About med school, about rotations, about residency, about practice. Never does he offer a light at the end of the tunnel. It's always doom and gloom and it gets old. This also isn't the first time this topic has come up.

Dude, first calling someone out in this way is a violation of TOS. So chill.
Second, I defy you to say what in the above post is not accurate. I'm just relaying what I've personally seen. Folks in residency at many programs are on call every third or fourth night. That's just how it is -- the dues everyone has to pay. Not gloom or doom, just the reality of residency in many many fields. They didn't put an 80 hour work week cap into place just for kicks -- places were working their residents hard, and still do now within those constraints.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

I don't think law2doc makes things gloomy, I think reality is gloomy It's all good. Work hard, live with purpose, die with honor and respect even if no one knows it but you

 

[DrJD]

Dude, first calling someone out in this way is a violation of TOS. So chill.
Second, I defy you to say what in the above post is not accurate. I'm just relaying what I've personally seen. Folks in residency at many programs are on call every third or fourth night. That's just how it is -- the dues everyone has to pay. Not gloom or doom, just the reality of residency in many many fields. They didn't put an 80 hour work week cap into place just for kicks -- places were working their residents hard, and still do now within those constraints.

Law2Doc, I appreciate your comments, they are always helpful and insightful...

Come on guys, seriously? Any premed who would say that a poster stating Q3 or 4 call, little sleep 80 work weeks for 40 thousand is doom or gloom has NOT done their research. Law2doc is just stating facts! Facts you should already know if you are a medical school applicant!

We could say it like this... "As an intern you will have the luxury of forgoing sleep every third night, while joyfully making trivial decisions that will effecting your best friends chances at living. You will get the privilege of working more than double your friends from college... Its all worth it though because you gladly make less per hour than a barrista at starbucks so that you can support your hospital's financial goals. "

Come on guys, seriously?

Thanks law2doc for your posts!

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Law2Doc, I appreciate your comments, they are always helpful and insightful...

Come on guys, seriously? Any premed who would say that a poster stating Q3 or 4 call, little sleep 80 work weeks for 40 thousand is doom or gloom has NOT done their research. Law2doc is just stating facts! Facts you should already know if you are a medical school applicant!

We could say it like this... "As an intern you will have the luxury of forgoing sleep every third night, while joyfully making trivial decisions that will effecting your best friends chances at living. You will get the privilege of working more than double your friends from college... Its all worth it though because you gladly make less per hour than a barrista at starbucks so that you can support your hospital's financial goals. "

Come on guys, seriously?

Thanks law2doc for your posts!

I think you are misunderstanding me. I didn't say that the facts were doom and gloom. I'm quite well aware of the facts. What I'm talking about is numerous threads where medical students, residents, and attendings all pop up to give the facts and then L2D pops up and there's a sudden shift in the tone of his posts. This isn't just this one thread. This came up just a few months ago and then a few months before that.

It's like mikedc813 said -- to listen to L2D, you'd think that every doctor hates what they do because it's so miserable. I was just replying to him (mikedc813).

 

[poiuyt123]

Are there are any residents that have died due to all those stressful hours and work or is it uncommon?

 

[Depakote]

Please refrain from calling out specific users.

 

[Law2Doc]

to listen to L2D, you'd think that every doctor hates what they do because it's so miserable. I was just replying to him (mikedc813).

I didn't say anything of the sort and never even suggested every doctor hates what they do in this or any other thread. I'm just giving facts here, as I have personally observed. No sugar coating. I would suggest that medicine is a fabulous field for the right people and a lousy one for folks who don't have a good sense of the realities of the profession, and go into it having an inaccurate view of what's ahead. And this is my view in nearly every thread. Not that it's bad. Not that folks don't love what they do. Just that a lot of people in pre-allo have skewed views of what medicine is actually all about and get blind-sided, which I think is a bad thing. Get it?

 

[footballrules]

I've lived in the real world too being a nontrad with a career, but I find L2D's posts always so doom and gloomy. About everything. About med school, about rotations, about residency, about practice. Never does he offer a light at the end of the tunnel. It's always doom and gloom and it gets old. This also isn't the first time this topic has come up.

I've lived in the world too. Medicine is a career and a job just like any other job and career. You are better of knowing the reality of what you are getting into before it starts so it is easier to adjust.

Medical school: you study and learn.

Residency: you are trained to become a doctor

Attending: sick patient needs to be tested for their condition, give medications and send patient home. Hopefully the diagnosis you gave is the right one. If the said patient comes back again in two months, you try your best again.

 

[Perrotfish]

Are there are any residents that have died due to all those stressful hours and work or is it uncommon?

You are currently limited to 80 hour work weeks, at least in the US. It's pretty much impossible to die from an 80 hour work week, even if you work all 80 hours in a row (which is also illegal). I suppose you might count some physicians suicides as victims of overwork, but that's hard to establish a causitive relationship for. Generally someone else might die from you working too many hours (see Libby Zion), but not you.

This does not mean that an 80 hour work week is reasonable, either for patients, physician training, or physicians themselves.

 

[Law2Doc]

You are currently limited to 80 hour work weeks, at least in the US. It's pretty much impossible to die from an 80 hour work week, even if you work all 80 hours in a row (which is also illegal). I suppose you might count some physicians suicides as victims of overwork, but that's hard to establish a causitive relationship for. Generally someone else might die from you working too many hours (see Libby Zion), but not you.

This does not mean that an 80 hour work week is reasonable, either for patients, physician training, or physicians themselves.

Bear in mind that the 80 hour work week is an average -- meaning you may break 100 hours on a given week each month and the program won't be in violation, if they lighten one or more of the other weeks per month accordingly. While no one has dropped dead from overwork during residency, and I doubt sleep deprivation makes you suicidal (actually sleep deprivation has anti-depressive effects), I have no doubt that there have been traffic accidents relating to sleep deprived residents. So consider this before deciding to commute long distances during residency.

Although the Zion case was the impetus behind the work hour limitation, it's still subject to debate as to whether sleep deprivation actually played the major role in that patient's death (there was some question as to whether the patient used illicit drugs which complicated her care).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Gloom and doom aside, please also bear in mind that some programs do not adhere to the 80 hour workweek, on the average or otherwise.

My worst experience was as the Chief on Vascular Surgery while the fellow was out of town job interviewing. Usually we split the call - so q2. With him out of town, I was on call q1. We had some particularly nasty Vascular trauma that week and I was in house and up for nearly 72 hours before the attendings noticed I was apparently slurring my words and sent me home, telling me to turn my pager off.

YMMV. This was an exceptional experience and not by any means commonplace, but it can and does happen. Because no one really knows what a particular residency program is like until they are in it, or whether or not they can handle it, it doesn't help to believe all the unicorn and rainbow stories anymore than to assume that L2D is being overly dramatic. There are those of us who have seen pretty unpleasant conditions...but I made it through and so can most anyone else.