Residency Vacation Time Flexibility

[MedGuy8315]

Hi guys I'm an up and comer med school applicant, but I have a question about residencies that pertains to my brother who is currently in his 3rd year of a DO program. Next summer, he will be matched with an EM residency pending all things go as planned. Unfortunately, I am also planning my own wedding around the time when his residency would start. From what I understand many start on July 1st. Long story short, due to other constraints on dates I'm considering having my wedding on July 1st or 8th, and I'm wondering if it would be difficult for him to get this time off right when he starts. I know it is probably program specific, but I figured I would ask to get some general information on flexibility when it comes to this type of stuff. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

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[doc05]

Not gonna happen. No residency program will allow time off in July

 

[Raryn]

Not gonna happen. No residency program will allow time off in July

Program specific.

While it is true that traditionally the clinical portion of residency begins on July 1, your brother will start orientation somewhere mid-late June. I had friends who started orientation anywhere from June ~10 to June 23. After orientation, he'll start clinical responsibilities either the last week in June or the first week in July. As an EM intern, he could be on anything from an EM rotation (which has significant numbers of days off, >10 days/month) to MICU/SICU (one day off/week as averaged over 4 weeks).

Chances are if he lets his program know ahead of time that his brother is getting married, he can ask that he be on one of those lighter rotations to start with and get the weekend of your wedding off. That's pretty reasonable, and most programs that aren't absolutely tiny have enough flexibility in their schedule that he could accomplish that without inconveniencing anyone else. The problem you have is that you'll need to book your venue well in advance and your brother won't know where he's doing residency till a few months before. He will need to let his program know ASAP after the match and hope travel arrangements from wherever he matches work out OK.

The bigger problem would be if he wanted more than just the weekend. If your brother wants to take a week of vacation for a variety of wedding events? This will be even more program dependent. Some programs outright forbid their residents from taking vacation in June because that's the time they have rotations set up specifically to acclimate them to the system. But some is not all. In my IM program for example, we routinely had a resident or two that would take vacation at the beginning of the year for whatever reason. Didn't really affect them at all because we treated July just like every other month. My fellowship OTOH doesn't allow July vacation at all, whether in the first or the second year. Banking on taking a full-out vacation in June is a gamble.

Basically? Anticipate he can get the weekend off, but don't bank on more than that.

 

[the argus]

Not gonna happen. No residency program will allow time off in July

Not true. My program gives interns vacation in July if they request it, even if it is the first weeks.

To the OP, this is program specific and there is no way to know what the policy will be of the program your brother matches into.

 

[Smurfette]

Your brother's a 3rd year med student currently, so this means you are planning a July 2018 wedding? Or is he a fourth year and going thru the match and interviewing this year? Just clarifying the timeframe here.

Honestly, it seems like a stretch to anticipate he can get the weekend of July 1 off. Obviously there are some programs that are more accommodating than others, but I would not assume it will go your way. July 8 might be easier depending on the program. However, if he is currently a 3rd year and just starting clinical rotations, he may end up liking a different field altogether. Some fields are more or less likely to be flexible--the bigger the program, often the easier it is to accommodate.

There are several things to consider here as well:
1. He may match somewhere far away from where you're getting married. Odds are high that the week before your wedding, he will be in orientation/working/etc.; even if he is off that entire weekend (which may be a long shot), he still will need time off to travel.
2. Is he standing up in your wedding? The more days off he needs off during this timeframe, the harder it is to accommodate.
3. Have you talked to your brother about this? I know I personally would have felt very uncomfortable calling my PD after the match and trying to get off work the first weekend (and I would have been told NO) and worried about whether this would start me off on the wrong foot. At that point, I didn't know my PD and had no idea how vacation weeks and other requests were determined. And if he absolutely can't be off, how will you and other family members react? Given the timing of the match, it will be too late for you to easily change wedding plans as well.
4. Keep in mind that if he is told no, quitting and finding a different residency slot (and one that would allow him off when he wants) is not going to be an option for him. And would be a match violation for him to quit (if NRMP), which would severely limit residency and fellowship options for years to come. I find that people outside of medicine do not understand that residency does not work like a normal job.

 

[rokshana]

do you have to get married in july?

 

[MedGuy8315]

Program specific.

While it is true that traditionally the clinical portion of residency begins on July 1, your brother will start orientation somewhere mid-late June. I had friends who started orientation anywhere from June ~10 to June 23. After orientation, he'll start clinical responsibilities either the last week in June or the first week in July. As an EM intern, he could be on anything from an EM rotation (which has significant numbers of days off, >10 days/month) to MICU/SICU (one day off/week as averaged over 4 weeks).

Chances are if he lets his program know ahead of time that his brother is getting married, he can ask that he be on one of those lighter rotations to start with and get the weekend of your wedding off. That's pretty reasonable, and most programs that aren't absolutely tiny have enough flexibility in their schedule that he could accomplish that without inconveniencing anyone else. The problem you have is that you'll need to book your venue well in advance and your brother won't know where he's doing residency till a few months before. He will need to let his program know ASAP after the match and hope travel arrangements from wherever he matches work out OK.

The bigger problem would be if he wanted more than just the weekend. If your brother wants to take a week of vacation for a variety of wedding events? This will be even more program dependent. Some programs outright forbid their residents from taking vacation in June because that's the time they have rotations set up specifically to acclimate them to the system. But some is not all. In my IM program for example, we routinely had a resident or two that would take vacation at the beginning of the year for whatever reason. Didn't really affect them at all because we treated July just like every other month. My fellowship OTOH doesn't allow July vacation at all, whether in the first or the second year. Banking on taking a full-out vacation in June is a gamble.

Basically? Anticipate he can get the weekend off, but don't bank on more than that.

Not true. My program gives interns vacation in July if they request it, even if it is the first weeks.

To the OP, this is program specific and there is no way to know what the policy will be of the program your brother matches into.

Your brother's a 3rd year med student currently, so this means you are planning a July 2018 wedding? Or is he a fourth year and going thru the match and interviewing this year? Just clarifying the timeframe here.

Honestly, it seems like a stretch to anticipate he can get the weekend of July 1 off. Obviously there are some programs that are more accommodating than others, but I would not assume it will go your way. July 8 might be easier depending on the program. However, if he is currently a 3rd year and just starting clinical rotations, he may end up liking a different field altogether. Some fields are more or less likely to be flexible--the bigger the program, often the easier it is to accommodate.

There are several things to consider here as well:
1. He may match somewhere far away from where you're getting married. Odds are high that the week before your wedding, he will be in orientation/working/etc.; even if he is off that entire weekend (which may be a long shot), he still will need time off to travel.
2. Is he standing up in your wedding? The more days off he needs off during this timeframe, the harder it is to accommodate.
3. Have you talked to your brother about this? I know I personally would have felt very uncomfortable calling my PD after the match and trying to get off work the first weekend (and I would have been told NO) and worried about whether this would start me off on the wrong foot. At that point, I didn't know my PD and had no idea how vacation weeks and other requests were determined. And if he absolutely can't be off, how will you and other family members react? Given the timing of the match, it will be too late for you to easily change wedding plans as well.
4. Keep in mind that if he is told no, quitting and finding a different residency slot (and one that would allow him off when he wants) is not going to be an option for him. And would be a match violation for him to quit (if NRMP), which would severely limit residency and fellowship options for years to come. I find that people outside of medicine do not understand that residency does not work like a normal job.

do you have to get married in july?

The specific venue only has availability on July 1 and 8 and it has a lot of meaning to us because it is where we met. The reason why I cannot before this is because of his graduation and other siblings in school during May, limited alternative venue availability in June, and I can't after because I'm hoping to be starting med school by that time. In answer to other questions, he's starting his 4th year, I want him standing with me in my wedding, and my family and I would also likely be devastated if he were not able to be there. Such a stressful and tricky situation

 

[FlowLimited]

It will certainly be program dependent. He will need to work closely with his chief resident(s), or whoever creates the schedule, and request a vacation-eligible block in July if he wants to take off more than just a weekend. I can't speak for other programs or other specialties, but this would not be a major issue in my residency program.

 

[rokshana]

its possible, but you can't count on the program being cooperative, esp in july...its JULY...other months are easier, though as it has been mentioned if its only the weekend, then that maybe more doable...have you thought about getting married after your 1st yr in med school? you will have that summer off, your brother will be a 2nd year resident so will be much easier for him to get time off in July (probably not June though) and there may be more availability for your venue...unfortunately during residency (and med school) you will find that you may have to miss big life events...if you decide to get married in July to satisfy your desires for the location, needs of family timing, etc, then you may have to do so without your brother there...

it will be important that your brother let the program know as soon as he can about the date and need for time off...often the program will ask for vacation time soon after the Match, but also interns are the low man and the program may have specific times of the year where vacation is not allowed.

 

[AdmiralChz]

People are right on with the above, it's possible but a HUGE uphill climb. Definitely depends on distribution of rotations, which is program specific. I have missed many July weddings, it sucks but that's sort of the name of the game. Few jobs in any career would allow vacation literally the day you started

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, when it comes to love and marriage, it's the people that matter, not the place. Have the wedding in your parents' backyard if that's what it takes, but move it to no later than mid-June so that your brother can definitely be there. You can always celebrate your anniversary or some other special day at the venue where you and your fiancee met.

 

[RangerBob]

Both my intern year and the first year of my advanced residency program did not allow any vacation in July. I suppose it's possible if I your brother asked very early, but it could look pretty bad to ask for the first day of residency off.

If you can't change the date of your wedding, his best bet may be to try to request to start on EM and then ask them to schedule him to accommodate the wedding--I had plenty of 2 and 3-day weekends (or weekday "weekends") when I rotated through EM my intern year. Of he could just ask to be on a rotation where he has the weekend off. Depending on how far he needs to travel, a 2-day weekend may not be ideal for a wedding, but if my brother were getting married I'd be willing to take a red-eye flight, catch the wedding, and fly back on the same day.

Best of luck. Planning weddings is tough. It'll be worth it in the end. In the end I agree with the above poster that who you have at your wedding will likely mean more to you than where/when you got married, so if you don't think you can make it work for your brother, perhaps you and your fiancee could talk more about if there are any alternative locations you'd be willing to consider. My wife and I got married in a chapel we'd never been to, in a city we never lived in (my family moved there after high school), and had the reception in my parents back yard. We kept it very simple (it helped that's what my wife wanted too!). About 25 people total. My sister did the catering and made the cake, and my brother bought some of those paper wedding bells and other decorations. My dad took snapshots of the ceremony. My mom just got to enjoy it since she was just finishing with chemo at the time (she's ok now . My wife's family helped her with her hair and her make-up. It was very personal. I wouldn't have changed a thing about the wedding--it was a beautiful day.

 

[Perrotfish]

My program allowed no vacation requests from Interns. You had two, one week vacation blocks that were assigned by the scheduler. You also got two golden weekends during the year. That was it: no other leave, no other holidays, no other full weekends, and there was no negotiating over the timing of your vacation blocks.

It's program dependant but be prepared for your brother to miss the wedding.

 

[Raryn]

My program allowed no vacation requests from Interns. You had two, one week vacation blocks that were assigned by the scheduler. You also got two golden weekends during the year. That was it: no other leave, no other holidays, no other full weekends, and there was no negotiating over the timing of your vacation blocks.

It's program dependant but be prepared for your brother to miss the wedding.

This is the other extreme, especially for smaller programs with no flexibility. Pretty sure three weeks is the least vacation you'll get these days though.

 

[Perrotfish]

This is the other extreme, especially for smaller programs with no flexibility. Pretty sure three weeks is the least vacation you'll get these days though.

Well I still know current residents at the program, and the schedule hasn't changed, so you definitely still can get just two weeks.