Residency

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highvoltage1045

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  1. Pre-Podiatry
First time poster, long time reader!

My question is about residencies in podiatry. Mainly, are they paid residencies and if so what is the average wage? I only ask because I am torn between dentistry and podiatry and cannot decide. Both have their perks but I don't know if I can afford to go 3 years without a salary after I graduate.

Thanks in advance
 
The pay during residency is approximately $40k. A few programs are as low as $30k and a few are as high as $60k but I would say the majority is around $40k.
 
You also need to consider other benefits (free housing, meals, meals only while on call, CME money), as well as the fact that salary will increase every year you're in the program. Someone posted a while ago a link to all of the residencies and their information. Try searching for it on SDN.
 
podiatry and dentistry are vastly different careers. I would look into both a little more closely and the different options for specialization in each before you decide.

Good Luck.
 
podiatry and dentistry are vastly different careers. I would look into both a little more closely and the different options for specialization in each before you decide.

Good Luck.

What options are there for specialization within podiatry? Everything I've been reading so far as been foor and ankle. Is there something a little more in depth?

Sorry for the ignorance...I'm still trying to learn as much as I can about the profession.
 
Everything I've been reading so far as been foor and ankle. Is there something a little more in depth?

What do you mean more in depth? Podiatrists are doctors trained to diagnose/treat/prevent diseases of the foot and ankle. That is it. If by "more in depth" you mean variety of procedures then podiatry has that. Depending on your surgical training (residency) you can do everything from amputations down to trimming diabetic toenails (and no its not ALL clipping toenails. I shadow a couple pods and in 4 hours they usually do this once or twice if not at all). There is also variety in the patients you see. You get young children, the elderly, athletes, obese people, etc. If by "more in depth" you mean different areas on the body then I believe it is frowned upon to treat ailments unrelated to the foot and ankle if you are trained as a podiatrist.
 
Sorry for not being clear. When I said more in depth, I didn't mean other parts of the body.

As an ortho surgeon is general for the entire body and can then do a fellowship to focus on just one area of the body, I was wondering if pods worked the same way. With pods working on the entire ankle and foot and then there are fellowships or a way to become a specialist in just a certain part.

And if there are these ways to specialize, is it by doing a fellowship? And what kind of fellowships are there?

And I notice some of these residency programs expose students to derm plastics or ortho. Does that mean that you would be allowed to do plastics /derm on the foot or are u simply "exposed" to it?

I'm very interested in pods, I am just trying to make sure I understand everything regarding scope of practice, residency and fellowships, lifestyle, and starting salary as well as how high up it can go.

I know I'm asking alot but any takers?
 
...And if there are these ways to specialize, is it by doing a fellowship? And what kind of fellowships are there?

And I notice some of these residency programs expose students to derm plastics or ortho. Does that mean that you would be allowed to do plastics /derm on the foot or are u simply "exposed" to it?...
Pod fellowships are usually for a sub-focus: F&A trauma, diabetic limb salvage, F&A sports med, advanced reconstruction, geriatric, etc.

Keep in mind that 3yrs of dedicated residency is a LONG time and a ton of foot and ankle cases (assuming you go to a decent program). Gen surgeons do 5yrs general and then a vascular fellowship; they will never really use the bowel, hernia, tumor, etc skills again once they specialize in vasc. Orthos do 5yrs ortho and then often do a certain fellowship focused on a subspecialty within skeletal system (spine, F&A, shoulder, total joints, etc). They will still do some general ortho when on call or if they until they have enough patients within their fellowship specialty area, but they they usually like to focus in on just the niche fellowship area cases and not really do much else. You won't really see a peds ortho doing much/any adult trauma or a F&A ortho doing much shoulder repair, etc. Now, imagine if those guys had just done 3yrs of focused residency training in their surgical sub-specialty right after the time of graduation; that's sorta what DPMs do (with the exception of some months of outside med/surg residency rotations). Your training for F&A surgery is quite badass if you go to a good program. You know the anatomy, you know the tools, and you should be able to do basically anything in our scope if you did a good residency and applied yourself. IMO, you have to have a real reason to justify doing a pod fellowship after 3yrs of residency... ie want a unique skill your residency didn't cover well, want to teach or get a job that's very hard unless you do extra publishing/politicking that fellowship may be conducive to, etc.

Every state scope is a bit different, but pods can surgically treat basically anything involving the ankle or foot in most areas. That might mean plastics procedures, derm lesions, vascular amputations, ortho type deformity or fracture fixes, etc. Whether you do all those things or not will depend a lot on your residency/fellowship training exposure, competence, interest, and comfort level. Having a good plastics rotation might make you more comfortable with skin grafts, flaps, plasty, etc in the foot or a good peds ortho rotation might make clubfoot and met adductus less intimidating, but it probably also just depends on what kinds of cases your DPM attendings are bringing to your residency program.
 
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Several types of podiatry fellowships exist, but they are never beyond the scope of the foot and ankle. You can complete fellowships in sports medicine, diabetic research/wound healing, trauma, advanced surgery like external fixation, etc. Some fellowships are not useful if you graduate from a particular residency program that already gave you great training in that area. For instance, completing a trauma fellowship after spending 3 years at a program like DMC would seem redundant because they are such a trauma-heavy program. If however your particular program was weak in that area and you were interested in traumatology (*and want to incorporate it into your practice), then that fellowship could greatly benefit you.

From what I have gathered, podiatry fellowships are opportunities to hone your skills in a particular area that you are especially interested but are not commonly pursued by most podiatry graduates like they are in the orthopedic community. You don't HAVE to do a fellowship to "specialize", but it might be a good idea if you didn't get the appropriate training in your 3 year surgical experience for your particular interest.

As far as exposure to ortho/plastics, there are some surgical principles that can be learned through these rotations and applied to all surgical specialties including podiatry and the foot/ankle, so that is why they are included in the curriculum. Skin plasty and reconstruction techniques are a few examples that you can use in your own surgical practice one day and are not unique to those other specialities.

I wouldn't worry about starting salary or the ceiling. That's a bad way to pick a profession. Rest assured that if you are a competant podiatrist when you graduate and you have some sort of personality that isn't offensive, you will be able to pay off your loans and live comfortably. You prolly won't drive a Benz (unless you really enjoy being in debt), but you won't have to ride the bus to work either. I know a few podiatrists who whine about money, including one of my relatives, but it is very obvious he is not hurting financially. Again, not driving a Porsche, but I think he'll make it through. And the lucky b****** only works FOUR days a week. Anyway...

In my opinion, podiatry is a lot less glorious than some of the other surgical specialties. A lot of the focus seems to be on preventative care. 10+ nail debridements and diabetic foot exams a day is not uncommon from what I have seen, and while there is very little glory in this work and a chimpanzee could be trained to perform it, this type of maintenance care is necessary for preventing those neuropathic/high risk patients from developing much more serious wounds and infections. So if you can't suck it up and convince yourself that you are really helping these people maintain their quality of life, and you need to be saving lives all the time, LOOK ELSEWHERE.

Dang, sorry for the long post
 
Feli and g squared 23, u have provided some amazing information and clarified a lot for me. And to be quite honest every line I read made me fall in love with the profession more and more. To be allowed and able to perform those kinds of procedures (even though it may not be that often) makes pod so much more worth those 4 years of my life than med school is.

And I agree it isn't glorious but in my eyes it's not always about the glory, it's about what you enjoy doing. And I think I would definitively enjoy this field.

As far as pay, I not using that as the primary resource to pick what I do however I would still like some information on it so I at least have an idea of what to expect when I get into the real world in order to make any necessary life arrangements.

I've been told many different numbers about salary and everytime I google it I get a different survey giving me a different range of numbers. I've heard anywhere from 120k to about 200k at the ceiling. How accurate is this info? I'm sure there are many factors that go into these numbers but an average pod on the east coast in NJ or NY would expect to start where after residency and where would he be after 10 years assuming he's good at what he does?

And is it more profitable to work for a hospital, group, open a private practice with a partner or on my own?

(I know I asked this in a different thread but): would you need to hire a radiologist to read your X-rays if you have your own machine or can you take the X-ray, read it, bill insurance for it and all the profits would go to u?

And last but not least, what is traumatology? And how does that work with pods? Wouldn't the trauma cases go to the ER doc and probably to the ortho? Would you have to be hospital employed to do traumatology?

For the record, I have tried to google these questions but am not finding reliable information. And I know ur info is just ur opinion and may not be set in stone, and I will take it as just that.

Thanks again for all the help
 
Let me know if you want a job when you finish residency. 😉

Loll so I'm guessing it goes a little higher. Much higher? Just looking for a ball park.

I'm not expecting to make as much as orthos in the 350k+.

I'd be satisfied with that 200k believe it or not.
 
Loll so I'm guessing it goes a little higher. Much higher? Just looking for a ball park.

I'm not expecting to make as much as orthos in the 350k+.

I'd be satisfied with that 200k believe it or not.
http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone/cz3_faqs.asp
Scroll to the middle of the page. It gives an APMA survey.
Also take into account that the numbers given are for net income and not gross.

* Remember NO survey is 100% accurate.
 
33% over 200k, wow. Not bad. Does this stat seem accurate for all those practicing physicians? I've been debating between DO and DPM for a while, but shadowed a DPM and really saw some complex procedures. During the second surgery I shadowed, it lasted four hours and was nearly a complete reconstruction of this patients left foot. It really opened my eyes to this profession. What's interesting is that I was told if was a "basic bunion procedure."...Little did I know that basic procedure required a total reconstruction. Very interesting field.
 
During the second surgery I shadowed, it lasted four hours and was nearly a complete reconstruction of this patients left foot. It really opened my eyes to this profession. What's interesting is that I was told if was a "basic bunion procedure."...Little did I know that basic procedure required a total reconstruction. Very interesting field.


It sounds like the surgeon you were shadowing was joking and it went over your head.
 
I don't think that was the case. Admittedly, it lasted longer than expected and the extent of the damage was more severe than the preliminary x-rays indicated. Severe and untreated bunions can cause damage to the entire foot, as it causes many of the other bones to shift and deform. Unfortunately, many individuals to leave their feet untreated, so having to reconstruct part of the foot may be somewhat normal for individuals who did not seek treatment. The point of my post, however, was that podiatry was much more complex than I initially presumed.
 
Little did I know that basic procedure required a total reconstruction.

A basic Austin or other bunion deformity correction takes well less than an hour to perform and certainly does not involve "total reconstruction" of the foot. Whatever you watched that took 4 hours, it simply was not a "basic bunion procedure" as you described.
 
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A basic Austin or other bunion deformity correction takes well less than an hour to perform and certainly does not involve "total reconstruction" of the foot. Whatever you watched that took 4 hours, it simply was not a "basic bunion procedure" as you described.

I apologize for the discrepancy and misleading choice of words.
 
I apologize for the discrepancy and misleading choice of words.

No apologies needed. It's great that you are taking the initiative to get out and learn about fields that you find interesting, good luck with whatever you decide to pursue! :luck:
 
No apologies needed. It's great that you are taking the initiative to get out and learn about fields that you find interesting, good luck with whatever you decide to pursue! :luck:

Thanks! 🙂
 
I know a few podiatrists who whine about money, including one of my relatives, but it is very obvious he is not hurting financially. Again, not driving a Porsche, but I think he'll make it through. And the lucky b****** only works FOUR days a week. Anyway...


Hmm interesting haha the pod i shadowed last week actually does have a Porsche.

Anyways yeah, must like most other residencies, resdency pay does suck, but it does increase every year.
 
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