Retake MCAT 4th time or give up Med School

[hepato_majalis]

Hey guys,

So I've applied this cycle to all Texas schools and a couple of other OOS but haven't heard anything from them yet. Disappointed and sad as I am, I'm not sure what I should do now.

My 3 MCAT is

May 2015; 498
Jan 2016: 501 (128-122- 127-124)
July 2016: 501 (127-124-125-125)

I started at a CC due to financial issues, ended up taking almost all prerequisites with a GPA of 3.95. I graduated from college majored in biochemistry with a 3.73 GPA.

I'm non traditional and TX resident. I have 2 publications and very nice ECs and letters of recommendation.

I talked to 2 MS4 and they both advised me to find something else to do in life. Med school adcom will not look at a 4th MCAT re-applicant.

I really want to pursue medical school. I registered for next April test and am starting to study for MCAT again. However, this test really drains me and hurts my relationship with my husband. He's totally against another retake.

What should I do? What are my chances this year or next year?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Toutie]

Have you only applied to MD schools, or have you also applied to Osteopathic schools?

 

[RunawayGrape]

.

 

[hepato_majalis]

Have you only applied to MD schools, or have you also applied to Osteopathic schools?

I have only applied to MD. If I reapply, I'll definitely choose a very broad spectrum of schools which include DO, consider highest MCAT, and are not against re-applicants.

 

[hepato_majalis]

You should consider looking at DO schools! You might have better luck.

Thanks! I'll add those to my reapplication. But, should I retake the MCAT?

 

[partypantss]

I think it would be wise to move on from MD schools at this point, however you could still have some chances with DO schools (however I know very little about DO admissions.) You should only retake the MCAT again if you are certain you will get a significantly better score.. IDK what practice tests you have yet to utilize at this point but if there are any, let your performance on those gauge whether or not to retake. If I were you I would also give it more time before you re tackle the mcat and try reapplying. Do something else for a year or two and then re visit. Just my 2 cents.

 

[summergirl]

I don't recommend retaking the mcat. You already hit a plateau with it, and you are competitive for DO as it currently stands. You won't even be a reapplicant for DO schools since they wouldn't know you applied to MD before. Unless they ask you that specifically of course.

 

[efle]

DO

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Hey guys,

So I've applied this cycle to all Texas schools and a couple of other OOS but haven't heard anything from them yet. Disappointed and sad as I am, I'm not sure what I should do now.

My 3 MCAT is

May 2015; 498
Jan 2016: 501 (128-122- 127-124)
July 2016: 501 (127-124-125-125)

I started at a CC due to financial issues, ended up taking almost all prerequisites with a GPA of 3.95. I graduated from college majored in biochemistry with a 3.73 GPA.

I'm non traditional and TX resident. I have 2 publications and very nice ECs and letters of recommendation.

I talked to 2 MS4 and they both advised me to find something else to do in life. Med school adcom will not look at a 4th MCAT re-applicant.

I really want to pursue medical school. I registered for next April test and am starting to study for MCAT again. However, this test really drains me and hurts my relationship with my husband. He's totally against another retake.

What should I do? What are my chances this year or next year?

What practice test scores were you getting before each exam? Were you consistently getting 505+ or around 500?

 

[Toutie]

Thanks! I'll add those to my reapplication. But, should I retake the MCAT?

Just my opinion...but I don't think you should retake it. A 4th time could be a killer. Plus, you seem to have plateaued with it. Your score is NOT improving. A 4th try would likely result in more of the same.

You need to change the schools you are applying to so they are more in line with your MCAT score. You absolutely need to apply to some Osteopathic schools.

 

[Ehwic]

Statistically DO will be the path of least resistance for you. However, although taking that MCAT for the 4th time won't do you much good, esp if you cant improve, BUT will NOT be the death of you. As long as you are able to address why the multiple retakes and can make yourself a competitive applicant in other ways, then you definitely have a shot!

 

[RunawayGrape]

.

 

[Goro]

I can't advise another retake. You've hit your plateau. Worse, you have performed unevenly in the sub-classes, which implies knowledge decay, or the fact that you can't master all four subjects at once. Not a good sign for med school. Do you have test taking anxiety? That can be fixed.

Your MCAT results are lethal for all MD schools. You may have some luck with DO schools, especially the newest ones, like UIW, the two in AR, RVU-UT, BCOM, LMU, ACOM and the VCOMs. Skip the coastal Touros, Western, PCOM, AZCOM, KCU and CCOM. I can't recommend LUCOM or Wm Carey.

Hey guys,

So I've applied this cycle to all Texas schools and a couple of other OOS but haven't heard anything from them yet. Disappointed and sad as I am, I'm not sure what I should do now.

My 3 MCAT is

May 2015; 498
Jan 2016: 501 (128-122- 127-124)
July 2016: 501 (127-124-125-125)

 

[hepato_majalis]

Just my opinion...but I don't think you should retake it. A 4th time could be a killer. Plus, you seem to have plateaued with it. Your score is NOT improving. A 4th try would likely result in more of the same.

You need to change the schools you are applying to so they are more in line with your MCAT score. You absolutely need to apply to some Osteopathic schools.

I wrote down what I did wrong in those attempts and was very honest with myself:

Mistakes I made in taking the new MCAT:

1. Not enough time to prepare. (1-2 months to reviews while working full time and 2-3 weeks to do practice tests full time)
2. Skipped some sections that I thought unimportant
3. Never be ready for the test. Prayed for miracle to happen on the test day
4. Never be able to sleep the night before the test. Very serious problem. Got lost on the way to test center.
5. Did not have enough support groups ( study groups )
6. Used the same practices to prepare for each test so scores got inflated
7. Did not prioritize the test over papers, work, and other tasks

Changes I will make to improve my scores on this MCAT
1. Increase time for study: 4 months of review / practice while working (Nov-Feb) and full 1-2 months for practice tests (March-April)
2. Cover EVERYTHING in the test prep books, also ALL AAMC and Khan academy posted officially on their websites
3. Only take the test when I'm ready.
4. Build a schedule that I will stick to it and learn to manage stress. Will do yoga, meditation, sleeping pills.
5. Not sure.
6. Use all EK, NS, BR instead of just Kaplan
7. This is the last MCAT. Nothing is more important. Period.

 

[Lawpy]

Hey guys,

So I've applied this cycle to all Texas schools and a couple of other OOS but haven't heard anything from them yet. Disappointed and sad as I am, I'm not sure what I should do now.

My 3 MCAT is

May 2015; 498
Jan 2016: 501 (128-122- 127-124)
July 2016: 501 (127-124-125-125)

I started at a CC due to financial issues, ended up taking almost all prerequisites with a GPA of 3.95. I graduated from college majored in biochemistry with a 3.73 GPA.

I'm non traditional and TX resident. I have 2 publications and very nice ECs and letters of recommendation.

I talked to 2 MS4 and they both advised me to find something else to do in life. Med school adcom will not look at a 4th MCAT re-applicant.

I really want to pursue medical school. I registered for next April test and am starting to study for MCAT again. However, this test really drains me and hurts my relationship with my husband. He's totally against another retake.

What should I do? What are my chances this year or next year?

I wrote down what I did wrong in those attempts and was very honest with myself:

Mistakes I made in taking the new MCAT:

1. Not enough time to prepare. (1-2 months to reviews while working full time and 2-3 weeks to do practice tests full time)
2. Skipped some sections that I thought unimportant
3. Never be ready for the test. Prayed for miracle to happen on the test day
4. Never be able to sleep the night before the test. Very serious problem. Got lost on the way to test center.
5. Did not have enough support groups ( study groups )
6. Used the same practices to prepare for each test so scores got inflated
7. Did not prioritize the test over papers, work, and other tasks

Changes I will make to improve my scores on this MCAT
1. Increase time for study: 4 months of review / practice while working (Nov-Feb) and full 1-2 months for practice tests (March-April)
2. Cover EVERYTHING in the test prep books, also ALL AAMC and Khan academy posted officially on their websites
3. Only take the test when I'm ready.
4. Build a schedule that I will stick to it and learn to manage stress. Will do yoga, meditation, sleeping pills.
5. Not sure.
6. Use all EK, NS, BR instead of just Kaplan
7. This is the last MCAT. Nothing is more important. Period.

So, the US MD matriculant MCAT score is a 31 or a 510. MD schools usually average all scores, as per following the AAMC policy of retakes.

This means: 510 = (498 + 501 + 501 + new score) / 4 --> 510*4 = 2040 = 1500 + new score --> new score = 540. This is impossible, because the highest score is a 528.

Now, let's assume you get a 528 on the 4th attempt. Your average of all these scores would be 507. This is roughly a standard deviation below the matriculant MCAT average (or at least, near the lower end), which means US MD is out.

Your best bet is to apply broadly to US DO.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

So, the US MD matriculant MCAT score is a 31 or a 510. MD schools usually average all scores, as per following the AAMC policy of retakes.

This means: 510 = (498 + 501 + 501 + new score) / 4 --> 510*4 = 2040 = 1500 + new score --> new score = 540. This is impossible, because the highest score is a 528.

Now, let's assume you get a 528 on the 4th attempt. Your average of all these scores would be 507. This is roughly a standard deviation below the matriculant MCAT average, which means US MD is out.

Your best bet is to apply broadly to US DO.

While adcoms see all the scores though and make their own decisions, not all schools average. A lot of schools actually take the most recent.

 

[Lawpy]

While adcoms see all the scores though and make their own decisions, not all schools average. A lot of schools actually take the most recent.

Though they may take the most recent score for reporting purposes (e.g. to boost their own matriculant medians), adcoms are strongly encouraged to average all scores for evaluative purposes when making the final decision. Adcoms and schools have no reason to oppose the AAMC averaging policy, because this is supported by many studies.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Though they may take the most recent score for reporting purposes (e.g. to boost their own matriculant medians), adcoms are strongly encouraged to average all scores for evaluative purposes when making the final decision. Adcoms and schools have no reason to oppose the AAMC averaging policy, because this is supported by many studies.

That makes sense, I guess I'm biased towards Texas schools since they don't average lol. But considering I read that around 50% of matriculants to MD schools have taken the MCAT twice or more, I have to assume that not all schools average the scores, even though it's recommended. 🙂

 

[Lawpy]

That makes sense, I guess I'm biased towards Texas schools since they don't average lol. But considering I read that around 50% of matriculants to MD schools have taken the MCAT twice or more, I have to assume that not all schools average the scores, even though it's recommended. 🙂

I'd personally treat averaging as the most conservative/worst-case estimate to have a more realistic decision on what to do.

 

[ERDOC555]

I can't advise another retake. You've hit your plateau. Worse, you have performed unevenly in the sub-classes, which implies knowledge decay, or the fact that you can't master all four subjects at once. Not a good sign for med school. Do you have test taking anxiety? That can be fixed.

Your MCAT results are lethal for all MD schools. You may have some luck with DO schools, especially the newest ones, like UIW, the two in AR, RVU-UT, BCOM, LMU, ACOM and the VCOMs. Skip the coastal Touros, Western, PCOM, AZCOM, KCU and CCOM. I can't recommend LUCOM or Wm Carey.

Goro hit the nail on the head! I would listen to everything he said.

The most concerning part to me is that you messed up consistently three times in a row and failed to learn from your mistakes each and every time. You had 6 months between every MCAT to learn from your mistakes, make a plan, and then try again, yet every time you had the same result. That is not what medical schools want to see. Far too high risk.

If you had a trend like
June 2015 - 500
July 2015 - 501
April 2016 - 510+
then you could at least talk about how you were too rash in your original closely spaced attempts, you learned your lesson, you can apply what you learned to future situations, you're a better person for it, blah, blah, blah, and impress your interviewers. Unfortunately that's not the case.

3 evenly spaced attempts with the same score tells a story that is not flattering and a fourth attempt would need to land you an astronomical score >90% to make up for it. I've seen plenty of people go from 3 ~500 attempts up to a 505/506, but I have never met someone who went from 500 -> 515 after that many attempts. Don't waste 6 months studying for a minor boost. Use that time to volunteer, work, shadow, research, or anything else to make you more well rounded.

You have a good GPA and an acceptable MCAT for DO. Reapply broadly next cycle to newer schools and you'll be a doctor someday.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have only applied to MD. If I reapply, I'll definitely choose a very broad spectrum of schools which include DO, consider highest MCAT, and are not against re-applicants.

No I would ONLY apply DO. MD is a lost cause at this point unfortunately. The right side is that you will still get to be a doctor one day. Apply broadly to about 20 DO schools the first day apps open next year and I would be surprised if you didn't get an acceptance.

 

[Nesrizona]

Keep at it.

 

[GrumpyGus]

Though they may take the most recent score for reporting purposes (e.g. to boost their own matriculant medians), adcoms are strongly encouraged to average all scores for evaluative purposes when making the final decision. Adcoms and schools have no reason to oppose the AAMC averaging policy, because this is supported by many studies.

Do you have a source for this? This is fascinating and I would love to actually see it somewhere!

 

[Goro]

Here's a teaching moment. I have several Adcom colleagues who would reject you outright just from hearing this. You took a career deciding, high stakes exam THREE times without being fully prepared for it, nor even took it seriously! This brings into question your ability to make good choices.

I wrote down what I did wrong in those attempts and was very honest with myself:

Mistakes I made in taking the new MCAT:

1. Not enough time to prepare. (1-2 months to reviews while working full time and 2-3 weeks to do practice tests full time)
2. Skipped some sections that I thought unimportant
3. Never be ready for the test. Prayed for miracle to happen on the test day
4. Never be able to sleep the night before the test. Very serious problem. Got lost on the way to test center.
5. Did not have enough support groups ( study groups )
6. Used the same practices to prepare for each test so scores got inflated
7. Did not prioritize the test over papers, work, and other tasks

 

[meddesire]

Hey guys,

So I've applied this cycle to all Texas schools and a couple of other OOS but haven't heard anything from them yet. Disappointed and sad as I am, I'm not sure what I should do now.

My 3 MCAT is

May 2015; 498
Jan 2016: 501 (128-122- 127-124)
July 2016: 501 (127-124-125-125)

I started at a CC due to financial issues, ended up taking almost all prerequisites with a GPA of 3.95. I graduated from college majored in biochemistry with a 3.73 GPA.

I'm non traditional and TX resident. I have 2 publications and very nice ECs and letters of recommendation.

I talked to 2 MS4 and they both advised me to find something else to do in life. Med school adcom will not look at a 4th MCAT re-applicant.

I really want to pursue medical school. I registered for next April test and am starting to study for MCAT again. However, this test really drains me and hurts my relationship with my husband. He's totally against another retake.

What should I do? What are my chances this year or next year?

Just wanna ask if you have any disadvantages (SES, ESL, etc.)? Are you a re-applicant this cycle or the first time applicant? Are you URM or ORM?

 

[LibBum]

You are a Texas resident with a solid GPA. If you want to obtain an acceptance you will have to take the exam again and move the bar to 508+.

Start by letting the stigma of MCAT X3 or 4 go, otherwise it will pull at your emotions and focus. I personally know someone who struggled with verbal section for a long period of time, they scored low on the old exam twice and received a 502 on their third attempt. Refusing to give up, they reviewed every bullet point on the AAMC MCAT outline and bought the recommended pysch/soc books as well as took as many practice tests as possible - result: 510, translating to 5 interviews from Texas schools this cycle. I should also mention that this friend is Asian, yet prematched to two schools this week.

Pinpoint your weaknesses and give yourself time to correct them.

 

[SoppyElk]

I know n = 1 but I took the test 4 times, improved immensely, and have been really grateful with the 3 IIs I have coming up in this cycle so far. It took a lot of hard work and a lot of mental toughness for me to get where I am, and it's been a very humbling experience for me. I saw the list of mistakes that you made and it's no wonder you got around the same score over and over again. It bugs me that you realized it was a big career stakes exam like Goro said and you repeated the same habits. I think you can improve with the 4th test but it'll take a lot of work. Actions speak louder than words so don't say you'll do X, Y and Z differently, but actually go out and do it. Best of luck with everything!

 

[hepato_majalis]

Just wanna ask if you have any disadvantages (SES, ESL, etc.)? Are you a re-applicant this cycle or the first time applicant? Are you URM or ORM?

I'm ESL, born and raised in Asia. This cycle is my first time applying.

 

[meddesire]

I'm ESL, born and raised in Asia. This cycle is my first time applying.

I think you don't have any trouble with that CARS cuz I see a lot of people with even lower like 123 got in. Plus, you are ESL. It's not the end of cycle yet. So don't give up!

 

[Horse Apiece]

I wrote down what I did wrong in those attempts and was very honest with myself:

Mistakes I made in taking the new MCAT:

1. Not enough time to prepare. (1-2 months to reviews while working full time and 2-3 weeks to do practice tests full time)
2. Skipped some sections that I thought unimportant
3. Never be ready for the test. Prayed for miracle to happen on the test day
4. Never be able to sleep the night before the test. Very serious problem. Got lost on the way to test center.
5. Did not have enough support groups ( study groups )
6. Used the same practices to prepare for each test so scores got inflated
7. Did not prioritize the test over papers, work, and other tasks

Changes I will make to improve my scores on this MCAT
1. Increase time for study: 4 months of review / practice while working (Nov-Feb) and full 1-2 months for practice tests (March-April)
2. Cover EVERYTHING in the test prep books, also ALL AAMC and Khan academy posted officially on their websites
3. Only take the test when I'm ready.
4. Build a schedule that I will stick to it and learn to manage stress. Will do yoga, meditation, sleeping pills.
5. Not sure.
6. Use all EK, NS, BR instead of just Kaplan
7. This is the last MCAT. Nothing is more important. Period.

You seem to not want to listen to the advice to apply DO only, and avoid another retake, although this advice is clearly the best course of action.

If you are set on retaking the MCAT (why would you ask if you should retake if you didnt want the answer?) then you need to learn to study for it correctly. The test requires mastery of content, and also mastery of the exam through practice questions. Working through multiple practice questions in all areas and thoroughly reviewing your mistakes is more important than just brute force memorization. Your subsections fluctuated quite a bit, to help with this look into using a flashcard app like ANKI or quizlet. Choose just EK, or BR. Don't try to reread the same content sections between books, that will be a waste of time. Plan to take many different practice tests, with the last one being the AAMC practice test 1 (unless you have already taken it) or whatever the new AAMC exam is. NS exams are good for the price, at only $25 per exam. EK I hear are good too, but have not personally used them, and they are $50 per exam. Look into getting the Kaplan/TPR exams for free (pretty easy to find out how with a google search). Do all the practice questions in the book set you get, and review them thoroughly. When going through a practice exam, you should have almost as much if not more time set aside for review of that exam. Make your mistakes into flashcards. Keep a journal of your progress and review this to help identify weak areas for more practice questions. Make sure to know your amino acids, and read through the AAMC content outline. Nothing on the outline should be unfamiliar to you. Buy all AAMC materials and use these throughout, except the Section banks which are good focused practice in to save for your last ~month/3 weeks. Get either the EK 101 CARS or TPR hyperlearning CARS, and do 1-2 passages per day. Use khan academy to supplement review materials for things you dont understand.

Look at the 509+ study habits thread on the MCAT section of SDN. Look at the sidebar of r/MCAT on reddit.

 

[popopopop]

Will an SMP help OP? I'm just throwing it out there.

 

[Lannister]

Will an SMP help OP? I'm just throwing it out there.

SMPs are for people with low GPAs, they won't fix a low MCAT.

 

[stickgirl390]

Not sure if this has been suggested yet. If DO doesn't work out, you could look into PA school instead. You'll still get to study medicine! Best of luck to you.

 

[rolliespring]

I'm ESL, too my friend but please listen to everyone's advice and don't retake the exam until your practice scores hit the 510+ range. That means you have to cancel your April exam if need be. Apply to DO broadly. See my post in the 509+ study habits thread if you want some help regarding ESL.

Again please only take it when you are getting 510+. If you get a similar score again, it would hurt even more.

 

[Lawpy]

Do you have a source for this? This is fascinating and I would love to actually see it somewhere!

Here you go:

https://students-residents.aamc.org/advisors/article/annotated-bibliography-mcat-research/

The most important study cited is:

Zhao, X., Oppler. S.H., Dunleavy, D.M., & Kroopnick, M. (2010). Validity of Four Approaches of Using Repeaters’ MCAT Scores in Medical School Admissions to Predict USMLE Step 1 Total Scores.Academic Medicine, 85, S1-S4.

Source: http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...ity_of_Four_Approaches_of_Using_Repeaters_.19

This paper highlights the critical results that SDN adcoms use when advising multiple retakes:

For the average score approach, matriculants with the same MCAT average are expected to achieve similar Step 1 total scores regardless of whether the individual attempted the MCAT exam one or multiple times. For the other three approaches, repeaters are expected to achieve lower Step 1 scores than nonrepeaters; for a given MCAT score, as the number of attempts increases, the expected Step 1 decreases. The effect was strongest for the highest-across administration approach, followed by the highest-within-administration approach, and then the most recent approach.

The conclusion is decisive:

Using the average score is the best approach for considering repeaters' MCAT scores in medical school admission decisions.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

Here you go:

https://students-residents.aamc.org/advisors/article/annotated-bibliography-mcat-research/

The most important study cited is:

Zhao, X., Oppler. S.H., Dunleavy, D.M., & Kroopnick, M. (2010). Validity of Four Approaches of Using Repeaters’ MCAT Scores in Medical School Admissions to Predict USMLE Step 1 Total Scores.Academic Medicine, 85, S1-S4.

Source: http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...ity_of_Four_Approaches_of_Using_Repeaters_.19

This paper highlights the critical results that SDN adcoms use when advising multiple retakes:

For the average score approach, matriculants with the same MCAT average are expected to achieve similar Step 1 total scores regardless of whether the individual attempted the MCAT exam one or multiple times. For the other three approaches, repeaters are expected to achieve lower Step 1 scores than nonrepeaters; for a given MCAT score, as the number of attempts increases, the expected Step 1 decreases. The effect was strongest for the highest-across administration approach, followed by the highest-within-administration approach, and then the most recent approach.

The conclusion is decisive:

Using the average score is the best approach for considering repeaters' MCAT scores in medical school admission decisions.

Since OP is a TX resident though, and TX does things kind of differently where they actually only take into account the most recent MCAT score (most likely bc they are very gpa heavy), I don't think the averaging will hurt in this case. I believe Texas a&m said they have 60% of students that took the mcat at least twice enrolled currently. Texas likes to be different I guess lol.

 

[Lawpy]

Since OP is a TX resident though, and TX does things kind of differently where they actually only take into account the most recent MCAT score (most likely bc they are very gpa heavy), I don't think the averaging will hurt in this case. I believe Texas a&m said they have 60% of students that took the mcat at least twice enrolled currently. Texas likes to be different I guess lol.

I don't know how Texas does their stuff. I'm just pointing out the general US MD/AAMC-based guidelines based on various studies presented emphasizing the importance of averaging scores. I don't see why Texas MD adcoms would ignore the data presented to do whatever they want, especially since Texas medical students take the USMLEs, and so Step scores matter.

 

[starspells]

Since OP is a TX resident though, and TX does things kind of differently where they actually only take into account the most recent MCAT score (most likely bc they are very gpa heavy), I don't think the averaging will hurt in this case. I believe Texas a&m said they have 60% of students that took the mcat at least twice enrolled currently. Texas likes to be different I guess lol.

I don't know how Texas does their stuff. I'm just pointing out the general US MD/AAMC-based guidelines based on various studies presented emphasizing the importance of averaging scores. I don't see why Texas MD adcoms would ignore the data presented to do whatever they want, especially since Texas medical students take the USMLEs, and so Step scores matter.

GinnyWeasley is right! I've seen TX schools that are willing to overlook the first couple attempts if the last is good enough. Maybe not the more competitive ones (UTSA? UTSW?) but some of the others for sure.

 

[starspells]

@Lawper there are a few schools that even superscore! SUPERSCORE! I guess it just comes down to the fact that different schools have different ways of evaluating scores. One strong MCAT score is always a safe bet though.

 

[Lawpy]

GinnyWeasley is right! I've seen TX schools that are willing to overlook the first couple attempts if the last is good enough. Maybe not the more competitive ones (UTSA? UTSW?) but some of the others for sure.

@Lawper there are a few schools that even superscore! SUPERSCORE! I guess it just comes down to the fact that different schools have different ways of evaluating scores. One strong MCAT score is always a safe bet though.

See below:

Though they may take the most recent score for reporting purposes (e.g. to boost their own matriculant medians), adcoms are strongly encouraged to average all scores for evaluative purposes when making the final decision. Adcoms and schools have no reason to oppose the AAMC averaging policy, because this is supported by many studies.

We don't know how adcoms view multiple scores as an outsider. How they evaluate multiple scores can be very different from school policy. If adcoms (who are usually faculty) are scientifically driven, they will acknowledge the importance of the studies listed in AAMC references and understand the critical importance of averaging the scores when making final decisions. Medical schools care about students doing well on the boards exam (with Step 1 being the key metric for medical school performance). If the data show that averaging the scores is associated with best Step 1 outcomes, it stands to reason that adcoms would average the scores to ensure the best possible class.

While Texas MD schools are based on a different application system and rules, Texas MD students still take USMLEs and MD shelf exams, so the adcoms are well aware of the importance of Step 1 and thus the AAMC studies matter when evaluating applications.

 

[starspells]

We don't know how adcoms view multiple scores as an outsider. How they evaluate multiple scores can be very different from school policy. If adcoms (who are usually faculty) are scientifically driven, they will acknowledge the importance of the studies listed in AAMC references and understand the critical importance of averaging the scores when making final decisions. Medical schools care about students doing well on the boards exam (with Step 1 being the key metric for medical school performance). If the data show that averaging the scores is associated with best Step 1 outcomes, it stands to reason that adcoms would average the scores to ensure the best possible class.

While Texas MD schools are based on a different application system and rules, Texas MD students still take USMLEs and MD shelf exams, so the adcoms are well aware of the importance of Step 1 and thus the AAMC studies matter when evaluating applications.

I guess some schools are not as data driven as others? I couldn't tell ya. Having 2+ scores certainly makes things more tough for the applicant but there are definitely plenty of schools willing to take candidates if their last attempt is strong. Maybe the candidate has something else that makes them worth it? Who knows. Plenty of applicants who've taken the MCAT twice or more have gotten in.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I don't know how Texas does their stuff. I'm just pointing out the general US MD/AAMC-based guidelines based on various studies presented emphasizing the importance of averaging scores. I don't see why Texas MD adcoms would ignore the data presented to do whatever they want, especially since Texas medical students take the USMLEs, and so Step scores matter.

I have no clue why they do that in Texas! They are on a different system, but have some of the top board score averages, so they must be doing something right 🙂 I appreciate all the information you gave on the topic though!

 

[GinnyWeasley]

I guess some schools are not as data driven as others? I couldn't tell ya. Having 2+ scores certainly makes things more tough for the applicant but there are definitely plenty of schools willing to take candidates if their last attempt is strong. Maybe the candidate has something else that makes them worth it? Who knows. Plenty of applicants who've taken the MCAT twice or more have gotten in.

I agree. Obviously if someone can get the job done on the first time- that's the most ideal situation. But as many schools have a good portion of their matriculants that have taken the MCAT 2+ times, there must be other stuff done, like a holistic review.

 

[Lawpy]

I guess some schools are not data driven as others? I couldn't tell ya. Having 2+ scores certainly makes things more tough for the applicant but there are definitely plenty of schools willing to take candidates if their last attempt is strong. Maybe the candidate has something else that makes them worth it? Who knows. Plenty of applicants who've taken the MCAT twice or more have gotten in.

That doesn't make sense but okay. And I'm not denying that applicants with multiple MCAT scores get accepted: many do for various reasons (the MCAT is only one part of the application). What I'm showing is:

1. How adcoms evaluate multiple MCAT scores can be very different from school policy. The school policy is often based for selfish reasons (e.g. increasing their matriculant MCAT medians by including only highest/superscored scores).

2. Averaging policy recommended by AAMC is based on concrete and established data reported by many studies, the most important one I listed above.

3. Adcoms may have differing views on multiple scores for various reasons (we don't know), but if they're scientifically driven and want to produce the best class to demolish the boards, they would pay attention to these studies and note the importance of averaging the scores to get the most realistic academic assessment of the applicant.

I have no clue why they do that in Texas! They are on a different system, but have some of the top board score averages, so they must be doing something right 🙂 I appreciate all the information you gave on the topic though!

Sure but I'm willing to bet many Texas adcoms still use the AAMC averaging policy to evaluate the application. This policy is supported by data. Though granted, we don't know what happens behind closed doors, but at least we have a reliable metric to approximate the impact of multiple scores.

 

[GinnyWeasley]

That doesn't make sense but okay. And I'm not denying that applicants with multiple MCAT scores get accepted: many do for various reasons (the MCAT is only one part of the application). What I'm showing is:

1. How adcoms evaluate multiple MCAT scores can be very different from school policy. The school policy is often based for selfish reasons (e.g. increasing their matriculant MCAT medians by including only highest/superscored scores).

2. Averaging policy recommended by AAMC is based on concrete and established data reported by many studies, the most important one I listed above.

3. Adcoms may have differing views on multiple scores for various reasons (we don't know), but if they're scientifically driven and want to produce the best class to demolish the boards, they would pay attention to these studies and note the importance of averaging the scores to get the most realistic academic assessment of the applicant.



Sure but I'm willing to bet many Texas adcoms still use the AAMC averaging policy to evaluate the application. This policy is supported by data. Though granted, we don't know what happens behind closed doors, but at least we have a reliable metric to approximate the impact of multiple scores.

Absolutely, but you have to keep in mind that TX has very high gpa averages and rather low MCAT averages, so they weigh gpa more highly, which contributes to the fact that they consider the most recent and the fact that they tend to have a lot of students with high gpas and have taken the mcat twice or more. The high importance placed on gpa is one of the reasons why TX doesn't follow AAMC policy. The fact that many TX schools have high board scores with this policy also lends credence to the fact that TX knows what they're doing in some way lol

 

[starspells]

That doesn't make sense but okay. And I'm not denying that applicants with multiple MCAT scores get accepted: many do for various reasons (the MCAT is only one part of the application). What I'm showing is:

1. How adcoms evaluate multiple MCAT scores can be very different from school policy. The school policy is often based for selfish reasons (e.g. increasing their matriculant MCAT medians by including only highest/superscored scores).

2. Averaging policy recommended by AAMC is based on concrete and established data reported by many studies, the most important one I listed above.

3. Adcoms may have differing views on multiple scores for various reasons (we don't know), but if they're scientifically driven and want to produce the best class to demolish the boards, they would pay attention to these studies and note the importance of averaging the scores to get the most realistic academic assessment of the applicant.



Sure but I'm willing to bet many Texas adcoms still use the AAMC averaging policy to evaluate the application. This policy is supported by data. Though granted, we don't know what happens behind closed doors, but at least we have a reliable metric to approximate the impact of multiple scores.

AAMC also recommends schools look at everything above a 500 as the same...

Anyway I agree with you. I'm just telling you there are schools that take plenty of applicants with 2+ scores. Of course it is up to the individual screener/adcomm but it happens more frequently than you might think.

 

[starspells]

Absolutely, but you have to keep in mind that TX has very high gpa averages and rather low MCAT averages, so they weigh gpa more highly, which contributes to the fact that they consider the most recent and the fact that they tend to have a lot of students with high gpas and have taken the mcat twice or more. The high importance placed on gpa is one of the reasons why TX doesn't follow AAMC policy. The fact that many TX schools have high board scores with this policy also lends credence to the fact that TX knows what they're doing in some way lol

I saw something awhile ago about some of the TX schools having higher step score averages than some of the top 20s. 😱
They definitely know what they're doing!

 

[Lawpy]

AAMC also recommends schools look at everything above a 500 as the same...

Anyway I agree with you. I'm just telling you there are schools that take plenty of applicants with averaged scores. Of course it is up to the individual screener/adcomm but it happens more frequently than you might think.

They're right on that if we're strictly comparing MCAT outcomes to Step 1 passing rates. What AAMC is saying is anyone who can get a 500 or above on the MCAT will pass Step 1 (and presumably Steps 2 and 3). And this is supported by data from MCAT Essentials. The AAMC didn't say anything about actually comparing MCAT outcomes to Step 1 scores. That's where the medical school competition effect takes over.

And again, I'm not denying that. I'm just establishing the validity and reliability of averaging multiple scores.

Absolutely, but you have to keep in mind that TX has very high gpa averages and rather low MCAT averages, so they weigh gpa more highly, which contributes to the fact that they consider the most recent and the fact that they tend to have a lot of students with high gpas and have taken the mcat twice or more. The high importance placed on gpa is one of the reasons why TX doesn't follow AAMC policy. The fact that many TX schools have high board scores with this policy also lends credence to the fact that TX knows what they're doing in some way lol

Sorry I don't follow. If Texas schools weigh less on MCAT or have low MCAT averages, it would show that the schools would actually support averaging the scores and reporting these in their official statistics (because averaged scores are lower than recent/highest scores). If the reported low MCAT averages themselves are the most recent scores, it would suggest that the retakers' averaged scores are lower than reported (assuming that recent score >> initial scores). This would give a rather misleading picture that even despite getting a 4.0 at a grade-inflating TX university and not doing so well on the MCAT, it's still possible to get a TX MD acceptance. And that's not true because in-state Texas matriculation rate is 33%, which is significantly lower than national US MD matriculation rate of 42% (so Texas is actually more competitive than nationwide, which has matriculant medians of 3.7/31).

Yeah and Vanderbilt superscores and still has strong board scores. Doesn't change the fact that adcoms may very well defy school policy to stick with reliable methods of evaluating multiple MCAT scores.

EDIT: TMDSAS 2016 statistics show a ~29% matriculation rate with MCAT medians of roughly ~507-508. Granted, this includes TCOM but that's still a fairly high MCAT median (close to AMCAS MD matriculant medians)

 

[GinnyWeasley]

They're right on that if we're strictly comparing MCAT outcomes to Step 1 passing rates. What AAMC is saying is anyone who can get a 500 or above on the MCAT will pass Step 1 (and presumably Steps 2 and 3). And this is supported by data from MCAT Essentials. The AAMC didn't say anything about actually comparing MCAT outcomes to Step 1 scores. That's where the medical school competition effect takes over.

And again, I'm not denying that. I'm just establishing the validity and reliability of averaging multiple scores.



Sorry I don't follow. If Texas schools weigh less on MCAT or have low MCAT averages, it would show that the schools would actually support averaging the scores and reporting these in their official statistics (because averaged scores are lower than recent/highest scores). If the reported low MCAT averages themselves are the most recent scores, it would suggest that the retakers' averaged scores are lower than reported (assuming that recent score >> initial scores). This would give a rather misleading picture that even despite getting a 4.0 at a grade-inflating TX university and not doing so well on the MCAT, it's still possible to get a TX MD acceptance. And that's not true because in-state Texas matriculation rate is 33%, which is significantly lower than national US MD matriculation rate of 42% (so Texas is actually more competitive than nationwide, which has matriculant medians of 3.7/31).

Yeah and Vanderbilt superscores and still has strong board scores. Doesn't change the fact that adcoms may very well defy school policy to stick with reliable methods of evaluating multiple MCAT scores.

EDIT: TMDSAS 2016 statistics show a ~29% matriculation rate with MCAT medians of roughly ~507-508. Granted, this includes TCOM but that's still a fairly high MCAT median (close to AMCAS MD matriculant medians)

I mean, when you have average gpas that go up into the 3.8/3.9 range, you would expect to have a higher MCAT average as well. So while a 507-508 isn't bad, it's not on par with what the gpa reported average are.

And because TX weighs the MCAT less, they are less inclined to follow in suit with AAMC and average them to find the most realistic expectation of a board score, because they seem to place less evidence on it as a whole.

Think of it in terms of how D.O schools believe in reinvention, and allow grade retakes- they don't place as much emphasis on initial grades. Same as TX not placing as much emphasis on initial MCAT scores. I'm not trying to argue with you, but simply stating this as someone who has been to info meetings with TX deans and as someone who has interviewed at TX schools.

 

[Goro]

No, the MCAT score is the problem, not GPA.

Will an SMP help OP? I'm just throwing it out there.