Retake vs. New Upper Level Classes and other non-trad questions

[Animinevege]

Hi Everyone,

First time posting! I'm just starting to revisit the idea of veterinary school (abandoned it back in 2004 due to miserable undergraduate GPA). Since I've been out of school for years and am a full-time working professional I've got some limited options as far as improving my chances of getting into vet school.

As stated, my undergraduate GPA is miserable (< 2.5). I'm looking into re-taking certain pre-reqs that I had Cs or Ds in but am also seeing the opportunity to take some other upper-level science classes that I've never taken. Which is better? Should I try to prove that now, 7-10 years later, I can do better in a pre-req or take an upper level science that I have no experience in? Assuming I get As either way - which would look better?

Also, I've seen some postings about how community college classes aren't recommended but because of my work schedule it seems like this is the best way for me to go - I know I can find some online classes as well but I'm just wondering if I should forgo the community college upper level classes completely (for instance Microbiology) for an online class from somewhere else?

Finally, I took the GRE in 2007, got a 1220 (620 V, 600 Q, 5.0 AW). This was on a whim when I was trying to teach another class for Kaplan (didn't qualify with that score btw). I'm happy to retake but it seems like the score is on the cusp - I'm guessing it's a good idea to study for a bit, take it and really do well so as to help offset the poor grades? Can someone confirm that idea?

Thanks for taking the time!

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[PetPony]

I haven't taken any classes myself yet, but do you think you'll be able to do good in upper-level science classes if you did bad in your 'easier' science classes before? And not only that, but they are also years back from now. Do you think you remember enough to be able to even do the simpler things in those classes? I think it'd be better to work more on the foundation, get good grades in the prereqs and then if you really want to/have the time, you can take upper-level courses..

 

[jmo1012]

your pre-reqs GPA is a prtty big part of your application. if you got mostly Cs and Ds, your best bet is probably to start those over and do well. Upper level classes are great but at the end of the day they are going to be staring at a miserable pre-req GPA and you don't want that!

that being said, there are several schools that have a grade forgiveness policy that allows you to not use classes that are a certain number of years old. might be an excellent chance to start fresh and really do well.

 

[Animinevege]

but do you think you'll be able to do good in upper-level science classes if you did bad in your 'easier' science classes before? And not only that, but they are also years back from now. Do you think you remember enough to be able to even do the simpler things in those classes?

I guess I misrepresented myself - I did fine in some of my upper level science classes and in some of my earlier "easier" classes. I have no fear of doing well now. Without going into it too much or making any excuses - there were a variety of reasons I did poorly in some of the pre-reqs I have As and Bs in a number of other pre-reqs so I'm just trying to determine what classes to focus on now.

Anyone have any thoughts about community college courses being ok if you're working full time?

 

[Marsala]

I guess I misrepresented myself - I did fine in some of my upper level science classes and in some of my earlier "easier" classes. I have no fear of doing well now. Without going into it too much or making any excuses - there were a variety of reasons I did poorly in some of the pre-reqs I have As and Bs in a number of other pre-reqs so I'm just trying to determine what classes to focus on now.

Anyone have any thoughts about community college courses being ok if you're working full time?

It may depend on the school. When I called schools and asked about CC classes, some were ok with them, while a couple of them basically sneered at the idea. What schools are you planning on applying to?

 

[LetItSnow]

I guess I misrepresented myself - I did fine in some of my upper level science classes and in some of my earlier "easier" classes. I have no fear of doing well now. Without going into it too much or making any excuses - there were a variety of reasons I did poorly in some of the pre-reqs I have As and Bs in a number of other pre-reqs so I'm just trying to determine what classes to focus on now.

Anyone have any thoughts about community college courses being ok if you're working full time?

I think that you have a solid afternoon's work in front of yourself because what you really need to do is sit down and look at how the different schools evaluate candidates. That, combined with the school(s) to which you plan to apply, will give you the best answer, since there is a degree of variation in how the evaluate GPAs.

I think you're likely to be a little better off with re-taking some pre-reqs because that will impact both your pre-req GPA as well as your last-45 credits GPA, whereas taking some 'advanced' (but not pre-req) science courses only impacts the last-45 credits GPA. There may be some subjective value in their eyes to seeing that you took recent, advanced classes and got A's, but you can't quantify that, so.....

Regarding community college courses, I think it's largely bunk, but you may want to talk to the vet school(s). I did all my science pre-reqs at a CC rather than pay 4x as much to go back to the private university I did my undergraduate (non-science) degree at. Shoot, my vet school publishes a list of the classes at all the local CCs that will fulfill the pre-req requirement. Doesn't seem like they care one way or the other, but maybe some of the snobbier schools do.

 

[BuggerDoodle]

As others mentioned, I would check with the schools that you're going to apply to and see if they care whether stuff comes from a CC or not. The schools I applied to didn't care, especially since it's not that uncommon for faculty at university's to pick up a course or two to teach at the local CC for some extra money.

Another thing you might want to check into is whether your courses have "expired" in the eyes of the vet schools. There are quite a few schools where your science classes have to be within the past 6-7 years so if you took prereqs back in or before 2004, they're no longer applicable and you need to retake them. I ran into this with a lot of courses that I took and had to retake a lot of courses such as Gen Chem, Gen Bio, and Physics.

 

[Animinevege]

I think that you have a solid afternoon's work in front of yourself because what you really need to do is sit down and look at how the different schools evaluate candidates

I'm spending multiple afternoons trying to work all these details out - lol! So complicated but will be so worth it!

What schools are you planning on applying to?

I haven't decided definitively but on the current short list are: Edinburgh (Dick), Dublin, Western, UT Knoxville, and Ross. I haven't even officially decided to apply this year versus waiting a year. Part of me thinks it would be effective to apply this year and find out what areas of improvement to focus on and part of me thinks I ought to save the money and wait until the chance for success is better.

I guess the next few steps are contacting schools about community college classes and researching non-community college online courses that will fulfill some of these deficits.

 

[Whyevernot55]

If this has been mentioned, I didn't see it - but also remember that most schools require a C or C+ or better in all pre-reqs. So you may HAVE to retake some.

My .02: I had a long conversation with Tufts admissions this year after being waitlisted again about retakes vs new classes - I have a few Cs and my GPA is not amazing, but not dismal either. I was told that they'd generally prefer to see me taking new, upper-level type classes, but if I WAS going to retake anything it should be the second half of organic chem (ick).
This is specific to my situation, but just remember that some schools are willing to really sit down and go over everything with you. If you can, do it.

 

[Bisbee]

I guess I would retake any courses in which I did not get at least a C+. This is because it will prove that you can do better and also to have a strong background in the subject area going into either vet school or upper level coursework.

 

[Animinevege]

My .02: I had a long conversation with Tufts admissions this year after being waitlisted again about retakes vs new classes - I have a few Cs and my GPA is not amazing, but not dismal either. I was told that they'd generally prefer to see me taking new, upper-level type classes, but if I WAS going to retake anything it should be the second half of organic chem (ick).
This is specific to my situation, but just remember that some schools are willing to really sit down and go over everything with you. If you can, do it.

Will the admissions offices typically be so specifically helpful if you haven't actually applied yet? I get that they might give me a general idea about community college classes being ok or even retake vs. new but do you think I can get that type of specific information before even applying?

Also, any non-trads out there who debated about applying with a not-as-strong/recent background vs. waiting a year and trying to guess how to improve? As in, should I apply this round, hope that the fact that I'm working on retaking a few classes and getting more recent experience counts for me or should I wait until next year? Such a hard decision

 

[Whyevernot55]

Will the admissions offices typically be so specifically helpful if you haven't actually applied yet? I get that they might give me a general idea about community college classes being ok or even retake vs. new but do you think I can get that type of specific information before even applying?

Also, any non-trads out there who debated about applying with a not-as-strong/recent background vs. waiting a year and trying to guess how to improve? As in, should I apply this round, hope that the fact that I'm working on retaking a few classes and getting more recent experience counts for me or should I wait until next year? Such a hard decision

I can't speak for other schools, but Tufts will happily talk to you if you are applying for the first time this year - their admissions office is absurdly nice and will do a pre-app file review with you. And it certainly doesn't hurt to ask elsewhere. I mean, the worst they can do is say "no, we won't get more specific."

I have debated about waiting. Honestly, applying is expensive and stressful, but if you think you have a shot, go for it.

 

[jmo1012]

Will the admissions offices typically be so specifically helpful if you haven't actually applied yet? I get that they might give me a general idea about community college classes being ok or even retake vs. new but do you think I can get that type of specific information before even applying?

Also, any non-trads out there who debated about applying with a not-as-strong/recent background vs. waiting a year and trying to guess how to improve? As in, should I apply this round, hope that the fact that I'm working on retaking a few classes and getting more recent experience counts for me or should I wait until next year? Such a hard decision

honestly, if your GPA is below a 2.5 and you have a lot of Cs and Ds in pre-reqs, i wouldnt bother applying this year. i doubt even a good GRE score will really sway with such low GPAs particularly since the score isn't recent. save yourself the money and stress right now and focus on bringing those grades up. having a good last 45 hours GPA and pre-req GPA will definitely help your low cumulative GPA (which probably isn't going to be fabulous depending on the number of credits you have)

i'd also save the money and stress for next year because even with a file review, they are going to tell you to bring up your GPA, pass your pre-req classes, work on veterinary and research experience. not overly helpful in my opinion (as you can see this from looking at your stats)

contact the admissions offices for the schools you're interested and see what advice they can give you. they may say sorry we cant help you, but thats the worst case scenario.

good luck!

 

[yann]

Hey Animinevege! I have a lot that I can relate to you with; I'm a non-trad and was working full time after graduating from college and deciding to make a big u-turn in life (or hit the breaks, however you put it) and go back to school to pursue vet med.
I'm currently working full time and taking a couple pre-reqs at the local community college here, and even though I haven't gotten all pre-reqs under my belt (still have organic chem, physics and possibly biochem to go) I'm applying anyways just for the hell of it. Schools I'm applying to this year are Edinburgh, Glasgow and possibly RVC, if they accept my late biochem credit. If not, just the first two. I think it's a long shot for me, just because I haven't completed all my requirements and I think the schools would prefer candidates that have already completed all and have stark grades. However, I've read some very uplifting posts of people who really just decided to plunge in without much confidence, and find out they got accepted. And even though the bigger reality is that you may probably not get in this year, you still get reviews and will give you a much better likelihood of aiming a straight arrow for the next application cycle; you know exactly what these schools want to see, and you know how to improve it (ie, if it's your past low pre-rew grades, then take em over again, if it's experience hours, then find a local vet to shadow, etc etc).
So, to sum up my dawdling reply, I'd say just go for it. Can't win the lottery if you don't buy the ticket!!

On a diff note, questions to anyone who may know: I just found out I probably won't be able to take Organic Chem at a 4yr college here because I'm not gonna be able to get my transcripts/degree certificate in time for their deadline. Is taking Org Chem in a CC generally acceptable for UK schools?? I emailed all schools I'm applying to this year and none of them has replied back. And that was a couple weeks back. Frustrated...

 

[mas185]

Also, any non-trads out there who debated about applying with a not-as-strong/recent background vs. waiting a year and trying to guess how to improve? As in, should I apply this round, hope that the fact that I'm working on retaking a few classes and getting more recent experience counts for me or should I wait until next year? Such a hard decision

I vote for yes to applying this year ... just pick a few schools so its not enormously expensive and make sure to include some explanation of the poorer pre-req grades. Also try and select schools that are known to consider more than just your grades (UCD, Tufts, etc. ... stay away from the ones that don't look past the numbers unless you're above some arbitrary cut off value). My reasoning is this: if the average number of applying before getting accepted is 2.5+ anyway then at least you get one application cycle under your belt. I'd also take the classes you want to re-take over this year so that you can show your application has improved significantly from the previous year (I think CC classes are fine and I'd recommend re-taking the worst of your pre-reqs, anything below a C+, and maybe one upper-level bio that you're interested in, that is if you can fit it in/have time/money etc.). The worse thing that can happen is you won't get this time but you'll be better prepared for next year. But the best thing that can happen is you do get in (which is what happened to me :0) and you're on your way all that much sooner! Vet schools like to see improvement and its easier to see improvement when you're comparing actual applications rather than just numbers on a sheet of paper ... Good luck!

M.A.

 

[CurrySpice]

I would take the money that you were going to spend on applications and purchase a plane ticket to Boston and get a pre-application file review at Tufts. I did that last summer and the lady I met with was lovely and explained very clearly where I should improve and what was good. I think that would help you out enormously with figuring out how to improve your application. I would also start studying for the GRE asap so that you can take the test early and figure out how much it can balance against your gpa.

Applying this year is a waste of money. The UK schools like to see you with a gpa above 3.0, and your stats are well below average for US vet schools. You might have a shot at Ross or another Caribbean school if you write a great personal statement and have good experience hours. Would you prefer to go to the Caribbean next year instead of waiting a year and having a shot elsewhere? Ross is accredited now, which is a huge plus in its favor.

 

[jmo1012]

Applying this year is a waste of money. The UK schools like to see you with a gpa above 3.0, and your stats are well below average for US vet schools. You might have a shot at Ross or another Caribbean school if you write a great personal statement and have good experience hours. Would you prefer to go to the Caribbean next year instead of waiting a year and having a shot elsewhere? Ross is accredited now, which is a huge plus in its favor.

I believe the Caribbean schools look for a GPA of 3.0+ for direct entry into the vet program. Otherwise they put you in a "foundations" program that basically has you taking some of the 1st semester classes and then if you do well and pass a competency exam at the end of the term, they'll put you in the vet program. If you don't have your requirements done they'll put you in the pre-vet program.

 

[petdrhpful2015]

Will the admissions offices typically be so specifically helpful if you haven't actually applied yet? I get that they might give me a general idea about community college classes being ok or even retake vs. new but do you think I can get that type of specific information before even applying?

Also, any non-trads out there who debated about applying with a not-as-strong/recent background vs. waiting a year and trying to guess how to improve? As in, should I apply this round, hope that the fact that I'm working on retaking a few classes and getting more recent experience counts for me or should I wait until next year? Such a hard decision

I think you should get your application out to a few schools and see what happens. This year a lot of schools are increasing their # of out-of-state spots (I know Virginia-Maryland is increasing by 25 spots), so it might be a good year to give it a shot. As others have said, it will give you tons of room for improvement for next cycle if you don't get in. I think a lot of committees look for improvement and how committed you are, so if over the course of the next year you make big improvements, you can show them that you really want to be a vet.

I applied twice before getting in and found that just a few, meaningful changes made the world of difference. I did take some of my pre-reqs at CC's, but none of the sciences (i.e. statistics). Some schools like NC State offers Animal Nutrition online which was pretty much an easy A if you keep up with it. That is a great GPA booster.