Retaking prerequisites transferred from other countries or upper level courses?

[veveyvincent]

Hi, I am an international student in my junior year at a public university in the U.S and plan to apply after junior year. I transferred from a university abroad last year. At my previous university, I took some prerequisites and transferred credits to my current university:
Gen Bio(cell and molecular),
Gen Chem,
Physical Chem,
Orgo1,
Biochem,
Stats.
(which will not be counted into AMCAS GPA)

However, I saw some university saying that "Prerequisite need to be taken in the U.S. or Canada." (not too many). Retaking prerequisites will help me better prepare for MCAT because I learn my prerequisite in another language. Retaking prerequisites will also give me a good GPA. It will also look better because my prerequisites are taken in the U.S., can be counted into AMCAS GPA, and fit some schools' requirement that "Upper-level courses can't replace prerequisites" (like SUNY).

However, if I retake the prerequisites, my transcript before the application will full of 100, 200 level prerequisite although I will take 400, 500 courses in my senior year. It looks like I get a good GPA (3.95) by only taking easy prerequisites before application. And my transcript before application looks like two years of prerequisite abroad and two years of prerequisite in the U.S. So I am considering taking upper-level science courses to both meet the prerequisite and make the transcripts look better. (And the upper-level courses will have fewer students so I will probably get a LOR)

I already took GenChem(retake), Orgo2, Physics1&2, Cal1, Gen Bio (ecology), Bio Lab and psychology in the U.S. I will take physiology, genetics, and biochem(retake) for sure next semester. For the other credits next semester, will you recommend retaking Gen Bio(Cell and molecule)+PChem or upper level cellular biology+ upper level orgo chemistry?

Really really confused and will be appreciated if you can give some advice!!!

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[Catalystik]

Hi, I am an international student in my junior year at a public university in the U.S and plan to apply after junior year. I transferred from a university abroad last year. At my previous university, I took some prerequisites and transferred credits to my current university:
Gen Bio(cell and molecular),
Gen Chem,
Physical Chem,
Orgo1,
Biochem,
Stats.
(which will not be counted into AMCAS GPA)

However, I saw some university saying that "Prerequisite need to be taken in the U.S. or Canada." (not too many). Retaking prerequisites will help me better prepare for MCAT because I learn my prerequisite in another language. Retaking prerequisites will also give me a good GPA. It will also look better because my prerequisites are taken in the U.S., can be counted into AMCAS GPA, and fit some schools' requirement that "Upper-level courses can't replace prerequisites" (like SUNY).

However, if I retake the prerequisites, my transcript before the application will full of 100, 200 level prerequisite although I will take 400, 500 courses in my senior year. It looks like I get a good GPA (3.95) by only taking easy prerequisites before application. And my transcript before application looks like two years of prerequisite abroad and two years of prerequisite in the U.S. So I am considering taking upper-level science courses to both meet the prerequisite and make the transcripts look better. (And the upper-level courses will have fewer students so I will probably get a LOR)

I already took GenChem(retake), Orgo2, Physics1&2, Cal1, Gen Bio (ecology), Bio Lab and psychology in the U.S. I will take physiology, genetics, and biochem(retake) for sure next semester. For the other credits next semester, will you recommend retaking Gen Bio(Cell and molecule)+PChem or upper level cellular biology+ upper level orgo chemistry?

Really really confused and will be appreciated if you can give some advice!!!

Retake Gen Bio (Cell and molecule)+ Lab, retake OChem I (instead of upper-level Orgo), and take Gen Chem II (not PChem) before you take the MCAT (so you learn the retakes in English), not necessarily all the next term, with maybe additional upper-level Bio eventually.

 

[FroYoOreo]

Based on my experience, 100-level 200-level pre-req classes are much harder than upper-level classes at my school. They are designed to weed out uninformed premeds. Just so you know.

 

[854555]

Based on my experience, 100-level 200-level pre-req classes are much harder than upper-level classes at my school. They are designed to weed out uninformed premeds. Just so you know.

Well I mean that's why it's easier in Upper Division. Professors traditionally give significantly higher proportions of A/A- grades in upper division courses because the class has been tried and tested for several semesters. So at the end of the day, someone who takes those classes without going through the rigor of the lower division classes may not end up doing so well.

Plus, you may think it is easier because you gained a lot of skills/learning habits from the weed-out courses. It may not be the same for OP.

 

[FroYoOreo]

Well I mean that's why it's easier in Upper Division. Professors traditionally give significantly higher proportions of A/A- grades in upper division courses because the class has been tried and tested for several semesters. So at the end of the day, someone who takes those classes without going through the rigor of the lower division classes may not end up doing so well.

Plus, you may think it is easier because you gained a lot of skills/learning habits from the weed-out courses. It may not be the same for OP.

True, I am just speaking from my experience. Upper-level courses are in general less hard-core and require less memorization but lots of problem-solving instead.

 

[veveyvincent]

Retake Gen Bio (Cell and molecule)+ Lab, retake OChem I (instead of upper-level Orgo), and take Gen Chem II (not PChem) before you take the MCAT (so you learn the retakes in English), not necessarily all the next term, with maybe additional upper-level Bio eventually.

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your reply!! But here are two problems I have:
1. Our school doesn't have Gen Chem2. Only one Gen Chem course. What they recommended (I made a typo before) is a semester of Gen Chem and then P Chem.
2. I am taking Orgo 2 this semester and the Department of Chemistry told me that if I take Orgo 1 next semester, I will lose my point for Orgo 2. So I can only consider upper-level orgo course
Since I will have one more semester and then take MCAT in May 2019, what do you suggest for the next semester?

 

[sunshinefl]

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your reply!! But here are two problems I have:
1. Our school doesn't have Gen Chem2. Only one Gen Chem course. What they recommended (I made a typo before) is a semester of Gen Chem and then P Chem.
2. I am taking Orgo 2 this semester and the Department of Chemistry told me that if I take Orgo 1 next semester, I will lose my point for Orgo 2. So I can only consider upper-level orgo course
Since I will have one more semester and then take MCAT in May 2019, what do you suggest for the next semester?

Not Catalystik, but In your case I suggest you don’t try to apply at the end of your junior year. Instead, complete your degree alongside volunteering, clinical experience, etc. Then do a DIY post-bacc with the remaining international pre-reqs that haven’t been redone in the US. Do this at a different school. Not sure what your immigration status is though and the implications of completing your degree and staying in the country.

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

I transferred most of my credits from another country but ended up retaking EVERYTHING because even if they transferred as this or that, the curriculum/language is still different and I wanted to be ready for the MCAT.
Also, you don’t want to limit yourself cuz a lot of schools won’t accept them even if they transferred with a letter grade.


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[JeSuisUnDoc]

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your reply!! But here are two problems I have:
1. Our school doesn't have Gen Chem2. Only one Gen Chem course. What they recommended (I made a typo before) is a semester of Gen Chem and then P Chem.
2. I am taking Orgo 2 this semester and the Department of Chemistry told me that if I take Orgo 1 next semester, I will lose my point for Orgo 2. So I can only consider upper-level orgo course
Since I will have one more semester and then take MCAT in May 2019, what do you suggest for the next semester?

Easy, take them at the local state school (most accept non degree students). I did that for a bunch of my courses. They really don’t need to be in order. My transcript shows that I took organic chemistry and other upper levels before general chemistry and biology lol


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[Catalystik]

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your reply!! But here are two problems I have:
1. Our school doesn't have Gen Chem2. Only one Gen Chem course. What they recommended (I made a typo before) is a semester of Gen Chem and then P Chem.
2. I am taking Orgo 2 this semester and the Department of Chemistry told me that if I take Orgo 1 next semester, I will lose my point for Orgo 2. So I can only consider upper-level orgo course
Since I will have one more semester and then take MCAT in May 2019, what do you suggest for the next semester?

-Is there any local school, even a community college, where you can take Ochem I before the MCAT?
-Is delaying your application plan by an additional year possible (visa-wise & expense-wise), perhaps by adding a minor or a second major? That would give you an extra summer for outside coursework to satisfy med school requirements, if there's nothing local.
-You do realize that internationals applying to US med schools need really strong ECs? We haven't even discussed the adequacy of whatever plans you have to beef up your experiences, but an extra year added to your timeline makes achieving this more likely.

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

-Is there any local school, even a community college, where you can take Ochem I before the MCAT?
-Is delaying your application plan by an additional year possible (visa-wise & expense-wise), perhaps by adding a minor or a second major? That would give you an extra summer for outside coursework to satisfy med school requirements, if there's nothing local.
-You do realize that internationals applying to US med schools need really strong ECs? We haven't even discussed the adequacy of whatever plans you have to beef up your experiences, but an extra year added to your timeline makes achieving this more likely.

International students are allowed to stay 1-3 years after graduating as long as they find a job/unpaid internship/volunteering related to their major.
He can always extend his program, his I20 gets extended by his school, the visa is only a problem if he leaves the country as he needs a valid one to come back.


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[veveyvincent]

-Is there any local school, even a community college, where you can take Ochem I before the MCAT?
-Is delaying your application plan by an additional year possible (visa-wise & expense-wise), perhaps by adding a minor or a second major? That would give you an extra summer for outside coursework to satisfy med school requirements, if there's nothing local.
-You do realize that internationals applying to US med schools need really strong ECs? We haven't even discussed the adequacy of whatever plans you have to beef up your experiences, but an extra year added to your timeline makes achieving this more likely.

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your recommendations. I am considering a one-year master program in the med school in my university. Since I will spend 5 years in undergraduate, I don't want to spend one more year on it. I was in two orgs (with leadership) in my previous university and about three orgs in my current university (also with some leadership, but not as high as a president). I also have some research experience but no publication yet (~1000hrs). 200 hrs of clinical volunteer experience + 200 hrs of non-clinical. So I would like to try to apply in 2019 and if I fail, I will enter the master program in Sept 2020 and reapply in June 2020. How do you think about it?

 

[veveyvincent]

Not Catalystik, but In your case I suggest you don’t try to apply at the end of your junior year. Instead, complete your degree alongside volunteering, clinical experience, etc. Then do a DIY post-bacc with the remaining international pre-reqs that haven’t been redone in the US. Do this at a different school. Not sure what your immigration status is though and the implications of completing your degree and staying in the country.

I am considering a one-year master program in the med school in my university. Since I will spend 5 years in undergraduate, I don't want to spend one more year on it. I was in two orgs (with leadership) in my previous university and about three orgs in my current university (also with some leadership, but not as high as a president). I also have some research experience but no publication yet (~1000hrs). 200 hrs of clinical volunteer experience + 200 hrs of non-clinical. So I would like to try to apply in 2019 and if I fail, I will enter the master program in Sept 2020 and reapply in June 2020. How do you think about it?

 

[Catalystik]

Hi Catalystik, thanks for your recommendations. I am considering a one-year master program in the med school in my university. Since I will spend 5 years in undergraduate, I don't want to spend one more year on it. I was in two orgs (with leadership) in my previous university and about three orgs in my current university (also with some leadership, but not as high as a president). I also have some research experience but no publication yet (~1000hrs). 200 hrs of clinical volunteer experience + 200 hrs of non-clinical. So I would like to try to apply in 2019 and if I fail, I will enter the master program in Sept 2020 and reapply in June 2020. How do you think about it?

Any physician shadowing? What about Teaching, Honors and Awards, Posters/Presentations, Artistic Endeavors, Hobbies, which are all elective but help define one's personality and work ethic, and make one look well-rounded.

Are you eligible for a green card?

A reapplication plan is not your best move forward. Best to apply once with the best possible application the first time. As an international, you need to stand out.

 

[veveyvincent]

Any physician shadowing? What about Teaching, Honors and Awards, Posters/Presentations, Artistic Endeavors, Hobbies, which are all elective but help define one's personality and work ethic, and make one look well-rounded.

Are you eligible for a green card?

A reapplication plan is not your best move forward. Best to apply once with the best possible application the first time. As an international, you need to stand out.

Already have some shadowing (will do more this year), some tutoring, school honors for every semester and will enter honor program next semester, 1 presentation, 1 artistic hobby that I have leadership, job, awards and lots of stories about it. I am not eligible for a green card.

 

[getdown]

If you're not eligible for a green card, what's your long term plan? Why do you want to go to medical school here instead of your home country? Do you plan on staying and practicing in the US afterwards?

 

[Catalystik]

1) Already have some shadowing (will do more this year), some tutoring, school honors for every semester and will enter honor program next semester, 1 presentation, 1 artistic hobby that I have leadership, job, awards and lots of stories about it.

2) I am not eligible for a green card.

1) Sounds like a good start.

2) What getdown asked. And what if you are never able to score on the MCAT in the range expected of international applicants (due to language issues), what is your backup plan?

 

[veveyvincent]

1) Sounds like a good start.

2) What getdown asked. And what if you are never able to score on the MCAT in the range expected of international applicants (due to language issues), what is your backup plan?

1)Yeah... I am trying to get more non-clinical volunteer hours, shadowing experience, leadership, research experience in the next 6 months. Do you think volunteering as an officer in the children hospital is a non-clinical or a clinical volunteer activity?
2) For the backup plan, as long as the MCAT score (I registered for the May 2019 one) is higher than 510, I may apply for DO school and go to any DO school that gives me an offer. If no DO/MD schools accept me or I get a super low MCAT score (hope not), I will retake MCAT and apply again after my senior year... If I fail again... maybe I will apply for Ph.D

 

[Catalystik]

1)Yeah... I am trying to get more non-clinical volunteer hours, shadowing experience, leadership, research experience in the next 6 months. Do you think volunteering as an officer in the children hospital is a non-clinical or a clinical volunteer activity?
2) For the backup plan, as long as the MCAT score (I registered for the May 2019 one) is higher than 510, I may apply for DO school and go to any DO school that gives me an offer. If no DO/MD schools accept me or I get a super low MCAT score (hope not), I will retake MCAT and apply again after my senior year... If I fail again... maybe I will apply for Ph.D

1) What is your role in the activity. What percent of the time do you interact with patients?

2) If your MCAT isn't all that you hope for, ou might also give consideration to going into podiatric medicine (medical practice confined to foot and ankle only). Podiatry schools also use MCAT/GPA, but their expectations aren't as high. SDN has a pre-Pod forum where you could explore this option.