FFP

Arrogant wiseguy
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2007
8,630
9,557
Status
Attending Physician
Obviously a lot can change in that time so I guess I will worry about crossing that bridge when it comes
That is true, but it's a lifetime learning process, and it's never too early to start planning. There are many questions that need answering (location, living expenses, healthcare, tax optimization etc.), and it takes years to plan (there is little room for mistake).

For example, my family is now at about 50-60% of our ballpark number. Once we are at about 90, I'll start putting everything on paper. We are leaning more towards "part-time retirement", so we don't lose our professional skills, at least for the first few years, and we have a backup plan.

Also, I think personal financial education is an absolute must, FIRE or not. NOBODY looks out more for one's interests than oneself.
 
Last edited:

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
Are the FIRE people saving money mostly in taxable accounts?

At this point more than 1/2 of my retirement accounts are traditional IRAs. The rest are a mixture of Roth and taxable.

Given the penalties for withdrawal from tax-advantaged retirement accounts prior to age 59 1/2 I assume these people aren't using any of that money to retire early. To me this implies that they've been saving large sums in taxable accounts too.
 

okayplayer

Senior Member
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
May 15, 2005
1,177
779
Status
Attending Physician
Are the FIRE people saving money mostly in taxable accounts?

At this point more than 1/2 of my retirement accounts are traditional IRAs. The rest are a mixture of Roth and taxable.

Given the penalties for withdrawal from tax-advantaged retirement accounts prior to age 59 1/2 I assume these people aren't using any of that money to retire early. To me this implies that they've been saving large sums in taxable accounts too.
My wife and I are heavily weighted in pretax accounts. Plan to withdraw from them penalty free via SEPP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sethco and FFP
About the Ads

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
My wife and I are heavily weighted in pretax accounts. Plan to withdraw from them penalty free via SEPP.
Thanks, learn something new every day. I thought that was only available for people who were involuntarily unemployed or had some other hardship before age 59 1/2. But it looks like it can be done totally electively.
 

doctalaughs

Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 9, 2003
882
906
Visit site
Status
Are the FIRE people saving money mostly in taxable accounts?

At this point more than 1/2 of my retirement accounts are traditional IRAs. The rest are a mixture of Roth and taxable.

Given the penalties for withdrawal from tax-advantaged retirement accounts prior to age 59 1/2 I assume these people aren't using any of that money to retire early. To me this implies that they've been saving large sums in taxable accounts too.
For us about 1/3tax advantaged and 2/3 taxable (only because you exhaust the advantaged accounts pretty quick). If you include 529s then it’s closer to half half.
 

sevoflurane

Ride
15+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2003
5,121
1,918
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Thanks, learn something new every day. I thought that was only available for people who were involuntarily unemployed or had some other hardship before age 59 1/2. But it looks like it can be done totally electively.
What is SEPP?
 

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
What is SEPP?
What is the catch?
Substantially Equal Periodic Payments

Essentially allows you to withdraw from an IRA penalty free prior to age 59 1/2. You set up a plan for fixed withdrawals with a time frame of the greater of 5 years, or the time until you turn 59 1/2. It appears the only catches are that (1) once you start the plan, you can't quit it, and (2) you can't contribute more funds to that account in the future. If you quit, you're liable for penalties and interest and possibly a beating from IRS agents.
 

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
Near as I can tell, it essentially renders that 59 1/2 age threshold for withdrawals irrelevant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: okayplayer

dr doze

To be able to forget means to sanity
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Dec 6, 2006
4,044
2,229
Status
Attending Physician
Are the FIRE people saving money mostly in taxable accounts?

At this point more than 1/2 of my retirement accounts are traditional IRAs. The rest are a mixture of Roth and taxable.

Given the penalties for withdrawal from tax-advantaged retirement accounts prior to age 59 1/2 I assume these people aren't using any of that money to retire early. To me this implies that they've been saving large sums in taxable accounts too.
Absolutely.
 
About the Ads
OP
BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 22, 2007
18,461
4,628
Southeast
Status
Attending Physician
Crazy... never heard of this.


What is the catch?
You must agree to regular distributions. I have been aware of this for years and I do not recommend it when Part-time work is an option and readily available like at your gig.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sethco

sevoflurane

Ride
15+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2003
5,121
1,918
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
You must agree to regular distributions. I have been aware of this for years and I do not recommend it when Part-time work is an option and readily available like at your gig.
Ya... I would say 1/2 the group is part time... even the newly graduated millennial hires. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dabears505
Aug 3, 2018
1,603
3,519
Status
Attending Physician
I personally would be nervous retiring in my 40s. That's a long time to be retired, like40+ years.I would imagine even with low inflation your purchasing power would be reduced over 50%, meaning that 100k required now would grow to 200k in 30 yrs. Many recommend a 2nd income stream like being self employed or working part time. We are very close to our goal and am starting to work out the nuts and bolts of withdrawing money. Non taxable accounts should be drained first and then taxable accounts to lower tax burdens. My sister in law passed at 62 and now my brother is alone. Dont postpone retirement unless you love going to work every day. I'll be out soon and my wife in about a year. Planning on spending as much of our childrens inheritance as possible.
 

doctalaughs

Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 9, 2003
882
906
Visit site
Status
I personally would be nervous retiring in my 40s. That's a long time to be retired, like40+ years.I would imagine even with low inflation your purchasing power would be reduced over 50%, meaning that 100k required now would grow to 200k in 30 yrs. Many recommend a 2nd income stream like being self employed or working part time. We are very close to our goal and am starting to work out the nuts and bolts of withdrawing money. Non taxable accounts should be drained first and then taxable accounts to lower tax burdens. My sister in law passed at 62 and now my brother is alone. Dont postpone retirement unless you love going to work every day. I'll be out soon and my wife in about a year. Planning on spending as much of our childrens inheritance as possible.
I agree that’s a long time to be retired but each to their own.

I’m increasingly thinking that instead of hitting my magic number at 55 and riding off into the sunset, I might be happier cutting down to 50% time at age 50 and then 25% time at 60 and working “a bit here and there just for fun” after that. My only hesitation is the continued liability against accumulated wealth of working as a clinical doctor. I know judgements above liability limits are exceedingly rare but I don’t know if I’m willing to take an even minuscule risk against a lifetime of savings work.
 

FFP

Arrogant wiseguy
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2007
8,630
9,557
Status
Attending Physician
I agree that’s a long time to be retired but each to their own.

I’m increasingly thinking that instead of hitting my magic number at 55 and riding off into the sunset, I might be happier cutting down to 50% time at age 50 and then 25% time at 60 and working “a bit here and there just for fun” after that. My only hesitation is the continued liability against accumulated wealth of working as a clinical doctor. I know judgements above liability limits are exceedingly rare but I don’t know if I’m willing to take an even minuscule risk against a lifetime of savings work.
South Dakota Trust.


"In most jurisdictions, trusts have to benefit someone other than the benefactor – your children, say, or your favourite charity – but in South Dakota, clients can create a trust for the benefit of themselves (indeed, Sun Hongbin is a beneficiary of his own trust). Once two years have passed, the trust is immune from any creditor claiming a share of the assets it contains, no matter the nature of their claim. A South Dakotan trust is secret, too. Court documents relating to it are kept private for ever, to prevent knowledge of its existence from leaking out. (It also has the useful side effect of making it all but impossible for journalists to find out who is using South Dakotan trusts, or what legal challenges to them have been filed.)"
 
  • Like
Reactions: mostwanted

sethco

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 12, 2003
1,173
290
41
Status
Attending Physician
Are the FIRE people saving money mostly in taxable accounts?

At this point more than 1/2 of my retirement accounts are traditional IRAs. The rest are a mixture of Roth and taxable.

Given the penalties for withdrawal from tax-advantaged retirement accounts prior to age 59 1/2 I assume these people aren't using any of that money to retire early. To me this implies that they've been saving large sums in taxable accounts too.
Contribution to a taxable account is very important for those considering a very early retirement without any plans for future earned income. About 50% of the amount I save per year goes into a taxable account. With that being said, there are some exceptions for accessing retirement accounts before 59 1/2. The most prominent example is the Separate Equal Periodic Payments, or SEPP, rule. This was talked about above, I see. Another example is if you are 55 and retire from your job, you can access your 401k early (This doesn't apply to an IRA)

 
Last edited:
Jan 22, 2019
1,510
1,413
Status
Resident [Any Field]
My magic number is 3 millions. That will be more than enough for me; then again I am not an anesthesiologist.
 

sethco

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 12, 2003
1,173
290
41
Status
Attending Physician
Crazy. SDN pearl.
I’ll have to look into that a bit further. Thx.
Many potential complications and pitfalls from taking SEPP/72t. Once you start you are locked in for starters for at least 5 years or until 59.5, whichever is longer. Don't need the payments one year? Tough ****! You lose out on a lot of the compounding effects your 401k/IRA would have realized if you didn't touch it. Although you can't rollover the distributions to a Roth or another IRA, I guess you can put any extra into a taxable account


My preference is to build up a good taxable account and/or take advantage of the age 55 rule for 401k/403b accounts
 

okayplayer

Senior Member
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
May 15, 2005
1,177
779
Status
Attending Physician
Yes and no. There is inflexibility in terms of being stuck with whichever SEPP withdrawal you set up initially (you have a few choices up front), but for those of us likely to have 4-5m or more in tax deferred accounts, this will also decrease RMDs and allow for optimal tax efficiency in early retirement due to a mix of SEPP withdrawals (taxed but at lower income tax brackets) and dividends taxed at LTCG in the taxable account.

Because of the 3 different actuarial methods by which you can set up your SEPP, you can basically choose your withdrawal amount.

It’s not for everybody, but is a nice option for early retirees with a ton in pretax plans and not as much in taxable accounts.
 

thinkorswim

Mr. Monster
10+ Year Member
Dec 11, 2006
144
128
Status
An alternative to SEPP distributions is a Roth conversion ladder, which is not as restrictive. I plan to start doing this once I scale back to part time, or I may just start contributing into a Roth 401k once the traditional 401k has reached a coasting level. I haven't decided yet.

Mad Fientist has a good comparison between both methods here:

 
About the Ads

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
I personally would be nervous retiring in my 40s. That's a long time to be retired, like40+ years.I would imagine even with low inflation your purchasing power would be reduced over 50%, meaning that 100k required now would grow to 200k in 30 yrs.
Implicit in the X% SWR models is the feature that the withdrawals keep up with inflation. In year 1 if the 4% withdrawal is $100K, then the expectation is that after 29 years of 2% inflation the withdrawal will be $180K or thereabouts (with purchasing power comparable to the $100K withdrawn in year 1).

A risk with early retirements is that the SWR models showing historical success at 4% are based on a 30 year horizon. If you stretch that to 40 years many argue you should be using 3%.

Keeping pace with inflation also has implications for how the money is invested. Success probably depends on keeping a substantial portion of the portfolio in equities. (Which is likely wise anyway with a multi decade time frame.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus

MoMoGesiologist

What is dead may never die
2+ Year Member
Sep 17, 2016
616
832
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
 

FFP

Arrogant wiseguy
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2007
8,630
9,557
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
I am worried that the dollar will become worthless, when compared to today's dollar.
 

okayplayer

Senior Member
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
May 15, 2005
1,177
779
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
Dollar cost average up, dollar cost average down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abolt18 and sethco

sethco

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 12, 2003
1,173
290
41
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
No, Yes, No, No. In that order. Are you retiring in the next 5 years? If not, buy and hold and keep on buying even when the markets go down
 

Mikkel

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jul 8, 2019
1,246
1,127
Status
Attending Physician
I am worried that the dollar will become worthless, when compared to today's dollar.
No matter what the dollar does, it will be superior to the euro, pound, peso, yuan, and yen. The relative valuations might shift. As an economic tool, it's indispensable because the US economy is fundamentally better than every other economy. At least as long as we don't elect national socialists like the Democrats are pushing for.
 

sevoflurane

Ride
15+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2003
5,121
1,918
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
In addition to rental property in CO and a local outdoor Bar here, I am an investor in 2 Hotels currently being built off of Las Vegas boulevard. One will open this sunmer and is across from the new Raiders Stadium. The other opens a year from now.

Proforma is 17-18% per year at 85% capacity once up and running. 5.5% return until doors open and 50% return of investment after 5 years/refinance time.

17-18% per year is mail box money until we sell (if we sell). This is mailbox money once retired. I have 1/2 a mil invested currently. The goal is not to sell, but this is the 5th/6th hotel this group has erected (first one built 15 years ago). Eventually a REIT may look to purchase all hotels as they usually buy hotels in bulk. The EBITDA multiple will have to be high enough to satisfy investors as most of us are using/will be using these investments as passive income during retirement.

Not for everyone, but the group is pretty stellar (builder, manager and investors).
 

sevoflurane

Ride
15+ Year Member
Jul 16, 2003
5,121
1,918
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Vegas is booming. A lot of California explants moving in. 50k this year.
I take it with a grain of salt as Vegas was one of the hardest hit in the 2008 slump. We had 2 hotels open then... and they are all still here and doing very well at 92% capacity currently. Those original investors are happy and some have a lot of skin in the game (10+ mil invested across 6 hotels).
 

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
Are people doing anything different with their monies with the market and housing prices being at all time highs? Are we still investing as much as possible, or finding alternative places to grow our cash? Anyone else worried about a big market correction thats gonna beat the crap out of your retirement plans?
Not doing anything different ...

Nobody knows anything. DJIA 28000 might be the floor from now until forever. Or it might not.

I plan on being alive for at least another 40 or 50 years. A big market correction over the next few years is an opportunity to buy more shares at a lower price.

It's easier for me to be a little mellow about the notion of a crash or large correction, since I'll start collecting a Navy retirement pension in a couple years, just as I'm entering the prime of my career, with as many (or as few) high earning years ahead of me as I want. The pension is essentially a permanent bond-equivalent that balances the equity risk of my other accounts (it comes with cheap health insurance too), so there's no scenario so bad that I couldn't just sit on my hands, watch other people panic, keep buying, and wait for the market to recover, however long that took.
 
OP
BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 22, 2007
18,461
4,628
Southeast
Status
Attending Physician
Here is why you shouldn't retire too early. IMHO, late 50's is a good rule of thumb for "early" retirement. But, that doesn't mean you can't go part -time well before age 59.

 
About the Ads

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
Here is why you shouldn't retire too early. IMHO, late 50's is a good rule of thumb for "early" retirement. But, that doesn't mean you can't go part -time well before age 59.

He lives in San Francisco, and is planning to relocate to Honolulu to reduce costs. For a former investment banker he sure seems to be bad at math. He could stay retired just fine if he picked just about anyplace else to live.
 

Apollyon

Screw the GST
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2002
20,726
5,649
SCREW IT!
He lives in San Francisco, and is planning to relocate to Honolulu to reduce costs. For a former investment banker he sure seems to be bad at math. He could stay retired just fine if he picked just about anyplace else to live.
Seriously. When I lived in Hawai'i, I couldn't afford a house, as a doctor. I'm 49 now (EM), and want to retire yesterday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FFP

doctalaughs

Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 9, 2003
882
906
Visit site
Status
It takes 1-2 million to raise a child if you are in the upper-middle to upper class. Of course his finances changed in a major way when that happened.

I agree it’s probably not a great idea to retire until all obligations to immediate family is met. Its hard to get a good gig or rebuild skills when you’ve not used your training for years.
 

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
It takes 1-2 million to raise a child if you are in the upper-middle to upper class.
Where are you getting this figure? Summers in Rangoon? Luge lessons?

My kids are now 18, 20, and 22. Back of the envelope, from birth until a few years from now when the younger two are done with college, I figure I'm probably out about $1M for all three of them put together, including private school for most of their high school years, ~13 years of competitive traveling gymnastics for the girl, ~8 years of intensive music for one of the boys, and college for all three (well - one used my transferred GI Bill benefits).

They're a money pit to be sure, but it's not a pit $3-6M deep.
 

Mikkel

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jul 8, 2019
1,246
1,127
Status
Attending Physician
Where are you getting this figure? Summers in Rangoon? Luge lessons?

My kids are now 18, 20, and 22. Back of the envelope, from birth until a few years from now when the younger two are done with college, I figure I'm probably out about $1M for all three of them put together, including private school for most of their high school years, ~13 years of competitive traveling gymnastics for the girl, ~8 years of intensive music for one of the boys, and college for all three (well - one used my transferred GI Bill benefits).

They're a money pit to be sure, but it's not a pit $3-6M deep.
$420k: Private K-12 @ $30k/yr
$200k: Private college and dorm @ $50k/yr
$140k: $150 of activities per week, every week, for 18 years
$180k: one $10k family vacation every year for 18 years
$50k: sports car on 16th birthday

$990k total.

I stretched the numbers as much as I could and it's nowhere near $2 million.

Kids are just not that much money unless you're intentionally trying to spend as much money as possible on them.
 

Mman

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2005
5,416
3,327
Status
Attending Physician
$420k: Private K-12 @ $30k/yr
$200k: Private college and dorm @ $50k/yr
$140k: $150 of activities per week, every week, for 18 years
$180k: one $10k family vacation every year for 18 years
$50k: sports car on 16th birthday

$990k total.

I stretched the numbers as much as I could and it's nowhere near $2 million.

Kids are just not that much money unless you're intentionally trying to spend as much money as possible on them.
If you have a kid now, 4 years of college might well be >$500K at current rates of college cost inflation when they are there in 18-22 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus and ZzzPlz
OP
BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 22, 2007
18,461
4,628
Southeast
Status
Attending Physician
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus
OP
BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

ASA Member
10+ Year Member
Apr 22, 2007
18,461
4,628
Southeast
Status
Attending Physician
This is the number many of you say you need to retire: $5 million. That means you need to be saving $4500-$5,000 per month minimum to get there. But, most of you should be able to save a total of $60,000 per year between 401Ks and after tax accounts.

 

pgg

Laugh at me, will they?
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Dec 15, 2005
12,795
10,247
Not home
Status
Attending Physician
If you have a kid now, 4 years of college might well be >$500K at current rates of college cost inflation when they are there in 18-22 years.
Do you really believe that can happen? I mean, within the bounds of rational possibility that makes planning for that kind of expense something a reasonable human would do? What would happen in this country if NO ONE could afford a college education? And essentially no one could, with costs like that.

In any case, this is all missing the point. The claim was that raising a kid costs $1-2M. It just doesn't, unless you are massively frivolous and wasteful.
 
Jan 3, 2019
1,130
522
Really, the problem is not being bored, but having the money to make your retirement a good experience and not a "stay in my shtty house 24/7 and eat canned beans" experience.

I would:

1. Spend time with wife and kids
2. Travel $$$$
3. Get back into mastering a foreign language ($$$ if serious and get a tutor)
4. Learn to golf and ski $$$$
5. Take my car to the track $$
6. Get serious about guitar again $
7. Catch up on the bazillion books in my read-for-pleasure list $
8. Catch up on the bazillion shows in my bingewatch-for-pleasure list $
9. Hit a bunch of a restaurants I haven't been to yet $$$
10. Start working out with a personal trainer $$



Even still, I think I might miss work a bit. But I'd only come back if I could find some way to work part-time, no call, only pump cases and occasional ICU rounding time (like maybe a weekend cover here and there).
I guess I don't understand how this would work - say he made 400k/year as an anesthesiologist, after taxes (say 30%) and spending for basic living (another 30%) he might have saved like 2.5-3million. If he's 43, say he lives another 42 years to 85. I don't think he could live a good life with his family/kiddos on 2-3million - travelling is expensive (I have travelled extensively with my spouse and it is not cheap - sure you can eat beans daily but that's not a worthwhile experience), and living in a crappy home again does not seem enjoyable. So while I think it's great, to spend 12-15 years training to retire after 13 years seems a little bit of a waste. Also again not sure how they would live on that kind of money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikkel and vector2

abolt18

I regret nothing. The end.
7+ Year Member
Apr 24, 2012
2,826
1,610
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I guess I don't understand how this would work - say he made 400k/year as an anesthesiologist, after taxes (say 30%) and spending for basic living (another 30%) he might have saved like 2.5-3million. If he's 43, say he lives another 42 years to 85. I don't think he could live a good life with his family/kiddos on 2-3million - travelling is expensive (I have travelled extensively with my spouse and it is not cheap - sure you can eat beans daily but that's not a worthwhile experience), and living in a crappy home again does not seem enjoyable. So while I think it's great, to spend 12-15 years training to retire after 13 years seems a little bit of a waste. Also again not sure how they would live on that kind of money.
Because before he quit medicine, his total yearly expenses was in the range of $60-80K as a baseline, and that was for several years in a row. That included lots of slow travel. He does a lot of credit card bonus hacking to get all his airfare basically free. Then they stay places for several weeks (months?) at a time with Airbnb I believe, buying inexpensive groceries and just wandering around exploring and enjoying the new place. Travel can be VERY inexpensive if you’re motivated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chocomorsel

doctalaughs

Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 9, 2003
882
906
Visit site
Status
Do you really believe that can happen? I mean, within the bounds of rational possibility that makes planning for that kind of expense something a reasonable human would do? What would happen in this country if NO ONE could afford a college education? And essentially no one could, with costs like that.

In any case, this is all missing the point. The claim was that raising a kid costs $1-2M. It just doesn't, unless you are massively frivolous and wasteful.
Most economists say cost is about 250-300k but that’s only to age 17 for an AVERAGE income household. If you have a high income and do all the stuff most high income houses do (nice vacations, multiple private lessons/activities/instruments/sports etc) AND you include college (which by the way is currently much higher than 50k/yr Dorm+tuition for higher tier private ones) then you are easily exceed 1 million. Add in private K-12 and/or grad school, if you plan to help with that, and 1-2 million is a reasonable figure.

 
Jan 3, 2019
1,130
522
Because before he quit medicine, his total yearly expenses was in the range of $60-80K as a baseline, and that was for several years in a row. That included lots of slow travel. He does a lot of credit card bonus hacking to get all his airfare basically free. Then they stay places for several weeks (months?) at a time with Airbnb I believe, buying inexpensive groceries and just wandering around exploring and enjoying the new place. Travel can be VERY inexpensive if you’re motivated.
I understand that his expenses are low even before quitting medicine (but he has a family of 4 right? so 60-80k for a family of4 is a VERY frugal existence) - not meant as a judgement, just without seeing the numbers on the blog it seems hard to conceptualize. Again not a judgement different things work for different people which is fine. 80k year per is less than 7k per month - not that much.
Travel is expensive - I have traveled all over the world and even with deals, spend typically 4-5k or so for 10 days abroad for 2 of us. Yes I don't cook or stay at airbnb but seems odd. I get that if he has a money genearting blog worth 100k that makes a big difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus

GravelRider

SDN Lifetime Donor
Lifetime Donor
5+ Year Member
Sep 30, 2014
2,175
3,295
Status
Attending Physician
This is the number many of you say you need to retire: $5 million. That means you need to be saving $4500-$5,000 per month minimum to get there. But, most of you should be able to save a total of $60,000 per year between 401Ks and after tax accounts.

I would recommend a higher savings rate for most new grads today. The average anesthesiologist making $400k in and moderate to high cost of living area should be able to double that savings rate to $120k per year or more. That does two things for you: 1.) Accelerates your savings and time to financial independence 2.) Moderates your lifestyle, which reduces your expenses down the road. Pay yourself first then figure out what you have to live on. Adjust your lifestyle to your savings rate.

The push for earlier retirements in medicine is the result of the employment and loss of independence by a lot of physicians. Working until you are 65 to maintain the private practice that you own is psychologically different than working until you are 65 for a corporation that is profiting off your sleepless nights in the hospital. Achieve that financial independence earlier and you get to dictate where you sleep no matter who you work for.
 

abolt18

I regret nothing. The end.
7+ Year Member
Apr 24, 2012
2,826
1,610
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I understand that his expenses are low even before quitting medicine (but he has a family of 4 right? so 60-80k for a family of4 is a VERY frugal existence) - not meant as a judgement, just without seeing the numbers on the blog it seems hard to conceptualize. Again not a judgement different things work for different people which is fine. 80k year per is less than 7k per month - not that much.
Travel is expensive - I have traveled all over the world and even with deals, spend typically 4-5k or so for 10 days abroad for 2 of us. Yes I don't cook or stay at airbnb but seems odd. I get that if he has a money genearting blog worth 100k that makes a big difference.
And here I am as a resident with my family of 5, surviving comfortably on a salary of $58K a year ;) And even being able to travel and go on vacations (which cost us way less than $5K).

But seriously, yes he is just frugal in general, but he's not "scraping by". $7K a month when you have zero debt is not half bad if you ask me!
 
  • Like
Reactions: chocomorsel
Jan 3, 2019
1,130
522
And here I am as a resident with my family of 5, surviving comfortably on a salary of $58K a year ;) And even being able to travel and go on vacations (which cost us way less than $5K).

But seriously, yes he is just frugal in general, but he's not "scraping by". $7K a month when you have zero debt is not half bad if you ask me!
Wow so 3 kiddos and a wife I imagine? How do you do it? I am just curious, sorry again not judging anyone! I consider myself frugal although I have certain lifestyle preferences - travel, spa, fine dining, etc. On 300-400k and two of us, I feel that while we have saved a lot, it still feels like "not enough"

How do you afford to shelter, clothe, feed a family of 5 on 58k? Just a little surprised! Congrats though. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: nimbus

Mman

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2005
5,416
3,327
Status
Attending Physician
Do you really believe that can happen? I mean, within the bounds of rational possibility that makes planning for that kind of expense something a reasonable human would do? What would happen in this country if NO ONE could afford a college education? And essentially no one could, with costs like that.
what is stopping it? College costs went up roughly 5x from the 70s to the 90s/00s, you don't think they can go up another 4-5x over the next 20 years?

I mean I agree it's insane, but if you plot out tuition costs from the 1960s to now and extend the graph another 20 years it gets crazy. My assumption is average private college or out of state public will be in the neighborhood of $100K per year in tuition alone in about 15 years. Throw in living costs and add in another kid or two and maybe some graduate school....
 
About the Ads