EMORYswim

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i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.
Reverse discrimination? C'mon! Who's going to tell you whether they are discriminating you or reverse discriminating you? Is the fact that UCLA has 40% asian shocking you? Maybe it's just another competetive year dude and your above the average score is not as high as others. Your statements are full of controdictary. I am on the waitlist of my top choice and I didn't strangle myself and call them discrimination.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.
Hey, I called yesterday and they told me that I was on the alternate list too. I am a white male but and I do have the stats to get (I think). On the other hand, I am not from Michigan and have no family connections to UofMich, so I can't fully speak from your position.
However, I do NOT think that its anything to do wih race. It is probably the time of the cycle that we interviewed at and other cycle related factor.
Hey may be its our Neurosciency backgorund that that they dont like :D
Anyways, just chill and see what happens, the class is big, so we should a good shot at it.
 
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EMORYswim

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DB#1 said:
Hey, I called yesterday and they told me that I was on the alternate list too. I am a white male but and I do have the stats to get (I think). On the other hand, I am not from Michigan and have no family connections to UofMich, so I can't fully speak from your position.
However, I do NOT think that its anything to do wih race. It is probably the time of the cycle that we interviewed at and other cycle related factor.
Hey may be its our Neurosciency backgorund that that they dont like :D
Anyways, just chill and see what happens, the class is big, so we should a good shot at it.
the woman told me to persue my other options, because they rarely go to the alternate list. it just annoys me because i have heard from various people that it is a penalty to be a white male and applying to michigan. remember a couple years ago that big lawsuit that michigan was involved with? i am going to another school because i do not appreciate the way michigan treated me throughout the process. i just wanted to see what other people thought. good luck, i hope you get in to michigan!
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.
I think it's a bit unfair for you to play the race card as you don't know anything else about other applicants other than you think they get special treatment based on their skin color. As a state school, U of MI should be allowed to make sure that they have a class representative of the state demographics, but they're not going to admit someone who they think is not qualified. How do you know everyone that was admitted didn't just have a stronger app? Also, it's hard to say what other applicants who were accepted may have gone through to get to where they are. Maybe some people with similar scores as yours also had to overcome some extreme hardships, or they come from a disadvantaged background that doesn't allow them to have family connections with the dental school.
 
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EMORYswim

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Profchaos said:
Reverse discrimination? C'mon! Who's going to tell you whether they are discriminating you or reverse discriminating you? Is the fact that UCLA has 40% asian shocking you? Maybe it's just another competetive year dude and your above the average score is not as high as others. Your statements are full of controdictary. I am on the waitlist of my top choice and I didn't strangle myself and call them discrimination.
i never said michigan was my top school, it just would be nice to have the option to go to my in state school that is all.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i never said michigan was my top school, it just would be nice to have the option to go to my in state school that is all.
So you were basicaly complaining. Maybe you should consider somewhere else that reverse discrimination doesn't exist. Maybe UNLV, where the class is 60% white dudes.
 

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I interviewed at Buffalo, Pitt (60+ interviewees), Temple, Louisville, Arizona and UW. Of all those interviews, I saw a grand total of 5 black applicants. 4 were women, one from Canada and one from Ghana (which makes you think about the poor state of afro-American dental standing if schools have to "import" black applicants).

I think it’s safe to say that a lack of diversity in dental schools is substantial, though linked primarily to who is applying. I would like to note that the schools with No African American interviewees (UL, Temple, Buffalo) were physically located in African American neighborhoods (just interesting)

While it is possible that someone was waitlisted b/c of a need for more diversity, dental school is hard no matter what race you are so they are not going to admit someone significantly less qualified than "you" only to see them drop out or struggle for 4 years. No one should feel like their "spot" was given away to fill a quota.
 

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oralskills said:
Asians face the same discrimination that Hispanics and African Americans face.
I don't agree with you on this one. True it might be harder to get into certain schools sometimes, but there are definitely way more opportunities for asians than other minorities who are viewed much more critically in America. I would say asians have a much easier time in our society than if you were latino or black. When you drive down the street in a nice neighborhood, the cops don't pull you over and harass you. When an asian guy get in the elevator, you don't see all the old ladies clutch onto their purses tighter. That's stuff some people have to deal with everyday of their life, not just that one time they're trying to get into the cheaper school.
 

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crazy_sherm said:
I don't agree with you on this one. True it might be harder to get into certain schools sometimes, but there are definitely way more opportunities for asians than other minorities who are viewed much more critically in America. I would say asians have a much easier time in our society than if you were latino or black. When you drive down the street in a nice neighborhood, the cops don't pull you over and harass you. When an asian guy get in the elevator, you don't see all the old ladies clutch onto their purses tighter. That's stuff some people have to deal with everyday of their life, not just that one time they're trying to get into the cheaper school.

Why is the OP care about not getting into Michigan, he is going to dental school after all. Stop Bitchin! Just be happy your going to school. Just thank your stars that you don't have to reapply.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.

I dont think its soo much that you are white male. Schools dont generally go by race, but rather by your probability to go practice in an underserved area. Regardless if your white, hispanic, or african american, they measure your probability practice in these underserved areas when you graduate. It just so happens that the majority of the people from these underserved area happen to be african american and hispanics, and most of the hispanics and african americnas they do accept into their programs are those that do come from those areas, have done volunteer in underserved areas, and have a high likely hood of returning to those areas. If dental schools only accepted the students with the highest grades and gpa we would see an even bigger shortage of health care in underserved areas than we already see today.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.
maybe that's all you had going for you... it's not all about the numbers and connections :rolleyes:

EMORYswim said:
Hispanics and African Americans are welcomed through the front door even though they aren't necessarily qualified.
i don't feel like i have ever been "handed" anything in life just because of my race. i've worked hard to get to where i am today. being a minority does not make you less qualified. the adcoms are not stupid enough to admit someone unqualified who would drop out in a few years.

be happy with your other acceptances. many people on this board would kill to be in your situation... :cool:
 

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At UT-Memphis, if your black your in. My bro goes there, and all the black students take "different tests" then the rest of the students. They get help on them and such. Wouldn't want to go to a black dentist from UT-Memphis.

Thats one for diversity! Really, blacks arn't diverse at all. How about Hungarians, Turks, Romanians and Finnish? Just because there white doesn't mean they arnt diverse.
 

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oralskills said:
You have family connections and you think you have been discriminated against? Please!!! The way I see it, Asians are the only ones that face discrimation. Asians don't get the benefits that Hispanics and Blacks get. Yet we are of a different skin color and get discriminated against. I had a friend who interviewed at a school and the east coast where the professor asked him why there are so many Asians applying to dental school. What kind of a question is that? I know for a fact that (based upon 95-96 stats) that Asians have to outscore Caucasians just to get into med school.

Some white people go through the back door.
Hispanics and African Americans are welcomed through the front door even though they aren't necessarily qualified.
Asians have to outscore everyone just to get in. Asians face the same discrimination that Hispanics and African Americans face.
Ditto. Asians are simply overrepresented in universities. Clinton said that someday all universities will be Asian. We have to jump higher hurdles than anyone else.
 

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It's the age of multiculturalism.

the word EMORYswim used 'reverse discrimination' is inappropriate.
being a white male, if you EMORYswim think you were reverse discriminted, you are also implying that while males are superior..?? & you shouldn't be discriminated..?? & also, you can discriminate the others??

maybe, you go to Japan or Korea (I'm from there), every single chicks will love you. you won't get discriminated there =)

plus, though dental schools these days go for "diversity", they can't just accept less qualified students because he/she is diverse!!

to prevent this, we should all favor interracial marriage ^_^ --> in near future, there is no such thing as "race" cuz everyone is the same... hehehe..
 

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eran76 said:
While it is possible that someone was waitlisted b/c of a need for more diversity, dental school is hard no matter what race you are so they are not going to admit someone significantly less qualified than "you" only to see them drop out or struggle for 4 years. No one should feel like their "spot" was given away to fill a quota.
I think the main concern here is that minority individual is less qualified and therefore less deserving of the seat in dental school and this is what is causing all the fuss.
 

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crazy_sherm said:
I don't agree with you on this one. True it might be harder to get into certain schools sometimes, but there are definitely way more opportunities for asians than other minorities who are viewed much more critically in America. I would say asians have a much easier time in our society than if you were latino or black. When you drive down the street in a nice neighborhood, the cops don't pull you over and harass you. When an asian guy get in the elevator, you don't see all the old ladies clutch onto their purses tighter. That's stuff some people have to deal with everyday of their life, not just that one time they're trying to get into the cheaper school.
You forgot to note that Asian men are weak in the dating scene. We're viewed as weaker and less capable of "being a man." In the movie Hitch, the beginning of the film features a white guy having sex with an Asian female. Where's the Asian male? Oh yea, American society isn't ready for Asian men to have sex with white or even Asian women. I believe Hispanic males also suffer the same fate Asian males do. Black males, on the other hand, are sex symbols who are overrepresented in power sports. If diversity is a necessity in dental school, why not sports?
 

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TravisP said:
At UT-Memphis, if your black your in. My bro goes there, and all the black students take "different tests" then the rest of the students. They get help on them and such. Wouldn't want to go to a black dentist from UT-Memphis.

Thats one for diversity! Really, blacks arn't diverse at all. How about Hungarians, Turks, Romanians and Finnish? Just because there white doesn't mean they arnt diverse.
According to what u've stated it seems that segregation is still alive and kicking in memphis. I highly doubt the validity of your remark and moreover the reason for making such allegations. Most ppl making allegations that black/latino and other under represented minorites are taking your spots need a reality check and need to get over your racial stereotypes. I have nothing but the highest esteem for my fellow "minority" classmates. Why wouldn't I? They kick my ass in almost every test, they study damn hard and are always there to lend a helping hand.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school
Well... no! You sound a little too sure of yourself, maybe that's your problem.

EMORYswim said:
i am going to another school because i do not appreciate the way michigan treated me throughout the process.
You're also going to another school because you didn't get into michigan. :p :eek: Don't try and fake a moral stand with me mister.

TravisP said:
At UT-Memphis, if your black your in. My bro goes there, and all the black students take "different tests" then the rest of the students. They get help on them and such. Wouldn't want to go to a black dentist from UT-Memphis.
I highly doubt this. And please shut up now.

mwsung said:
maybe, you go to Japan or Korea (I'm from there), every single chicks will love you. you won't get discriminated there =)
I understand that in Japan, there is a lot of discrimination. Sorry, this doesn't flow with my other points, but I had to say it. Everyone I know that's been to Japan has said it.


Ahhh.... Ann Arbor Michigan. The whitest place that I have ever been. And I"m not joking. Have you guys ever been to Ann Arbor? I remember all that hupla about the law school and was a little mad about it to be honest, but then when I actually saw Ann Arbor I realized why they try to recruit/accept african americans. In general, I think you gotta just work hard and not make excuses. Make statements through your actions and achievements, not through verbal diatribe. :luck:
 

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delicious said:
In general, I think you gotta just work hard and not make excuses. Make statements through your actions and achievements, not through verbal diatrabe. :luck:
Well said delicious.
That's a great philosophy. I don't think affirmative action should be accepted anywhere regardless of socioeconomic status. Everything should be based on merit.
 

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What does Verbal Diatrabe mean??

HD
 

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i went to three dental school interviews.. i only saw one african american student. and african being interviewed.
 

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Emory,
I am a female applicant to michigan with far above average grades, dat scores, experience, etc etc etc... and i only last week got accepted to umich (applied in may). I also know a white male who had less than average stats and stuff, but did have family connection, that got into umich a while before i did. so whatever the reason for alternate listing you, i do not think it was race or other lack of minority status since i know several white males with grades ranging from low to high who got in before this female applicant with awesome stats. my theory for myself is that they must have seen or heard something they didn't like at the interview.. although since it was only 10 minutes long i'm not sure how.. but oh well.
 

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EyeAmCommi said:
Well said delicious.
That's a great philosophy. I don't think affirmative action should be accepted anywhere regardless of socioeconomic status. Everything should be based on merit.
hmmm... thanks. But that idea was sorta directed to the OP. I myself am a white male (almost 100% british stock) and I fully agree with affirmative action, especially at the University of Michigan.

oh and, verbal diatribe :thumbdown:: large pre-historic dinosaur capable of consuming large quantities of peanut M & M's
 

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oralskills said:
You have family connections and you think you have been discriminated against? Please!!! The way I see it, Asians are the only ones that face discrimation. Asians don't get the benefits that Hispanics and Blacks get. Yet we are of a different skin color and get discriminated against. I had a friend who interviewed at a school and the east coast where the professor asked him why there are so many Asians applying to dental school. What kind of a question is that? I know for a fact that (based upon 95-96 stats) that Asians have to outscore Caucasians just to get into med school.

Some white people go through the back door.
Hispanics and African Americans are welcomed through the front door even though they aren't necessarily qualified.
Asians have to outscore everyone just to get in. Asians face the same discrimination that Hispanics and African Americans face.
Actually Asians are very successful obtaining admission to any type of institution. The Asian community typically makes up no more than about 20% of a local population however command 40-60% of dental/medica/even some(many) undergrads. They also make up that same percentage of the applications. Thus, discrimintation does not apply to Asians to any significant extent. Affirmitive Action is a terrible way rewarding poor stats and punishing those with better and takes away from the reputation of URM's with actual talent. But just because we don't benefit from AA doesn't mean we are facing reverse descrimination.
 

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how 'bout that vandammit movie, wake of death. there is an asian male/female sex scene.


EyeAmCommi said:
You forgot to note that Asian men are weak in the dating scene. We're viewed as weaker and less capable of "being a man." In the movie Hitch, the beginning of the film features a white guy having sex with an Asian female. Where's the Asian male? Oh yea, American society isn't ready for Asian men to have sex with white or even Asian women. I believe Hispanic males also suffer the same fate Asian males do. Black males, on the other hand, are sex symbols who are overrepresented in power sports. If diversity is a necessity in dental school, why not sports?
 

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oralskills said:
Why do asian males have to outscore cauasian males to get into medical school? The fact that more asians apply doesn't mean that we are NOT facing discrimination. African Americans make up the majority of all sport related activities. Does this mean that African Americans do not suffer from discrimination?

Affirmative Action Sucks!!!
I'm just saying that the total percentage of matriculants into dental school that are Asian is equal to the precentage of applicants that are Asian. Ie. 40% of the apps are Asian, and 40% of your next years class will be Asian. So they do pretty well.
 

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oralskills said:
Applicants to Medical School 1993

BLACK MALES
GPA (CUM) MCAT (V, PS, Writing, BS)
Accepted 3.05 7.5, 7.4, N, 7.6 551
40%
Applied 2.82 6.1, 6.2, N, 6.2 1,378

MEXICAN MALES
GPA (CUM) MCAT (V, PS, Writing, BS)
Accepted 3.17 8.3, 8.3, O, 8.8 215
50%
Applied 2.99 7.4, 7.4, N, 7.7 427


ASIAN MALES
GPA (CUM) MCAT (V, PS, Writing, BS)
Accepted 3.54 9.4, 10.7, P, 10.3 1,118
35%
Applied 3.28 8.0, 9.1, O, 8.9 4,626

WHITE MALES
GPA (CUM) MCAT (V, PS, Writing, BS)
Accepted 3.50 9.7, 10.0, P, 9.9 7,054
42%
Applied 3.29 8.7, 8.8, O, 8.9 16,938


Why do asian males have to outscore cauasian males to get into medical school? The fact that more asians apply doesn't mean that we are NOT facing discrimination. African Americans make up the majority of all sport related activities. Does this mean that African Americans do not suffer from discrimination?

Affirmative Action Sucks!!!
These stats are surprising. Only 35% of asian were adminted, and that proves the guy who started the thread is an idiot.
 

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Affirmative action is a social experiment gone awry, and as you can see from some of the statistics above, it can seem unfair. That's why it's either being scrapped or revamped all over the country, a big reason being that although the kids might get into a program, an alarming number drop out. The dropout rates are significantly higher for minorities. In many cases this is because they were admitted to a program that they were not qualified to be in in the first place. Most of my information is based on several articles I've read over the past few months about some of the more competitive undergraduate schools' admissions, but I think they made good arguments.
Powers greater than we are trying to figure out how to fix the problems of having minorities represented on campuses as we speak. IMO, I think schools should not admit someone just because he is a minority, but look at that person's socio-economic background. For example, you could have one minority who has grown up rich, had every advantage, but doesn't have a great gpa. On the other hand there could be a white guy, who has a better gpa but came from a poor family, and has had it hard his whole scholastic career. Is it fair to give a spot to the minority just because of his skin color? On the other hand, you could have the reverse, with your white spoiled brat with a strong gpa and scores, and the black guy who's mom worked three jobs to buy him books, etc, etc, and has a slightly lower gpa/scores. I think the school should strongly consider the hardships that he has endured, and yet, still done well in spite of it all. In other words, I would much rather see adcoms be more concerned with backgrounds than skin color. More minorities come from these less priviledged backgrounds, so, in fact, they would benefit the most from a direction like this, and I believe the general quality of matriculants would increase. Adcoms should be admitting people, not colors. My two cents. I'll add that I did a few semesters of post grad work at a historically black university (I'm white), and most of my peers that were going into a career in health agreed that affirmative action is bad. Their feeling was that if they didn't have high enough grades/scores, they shouldn't be going to medical/dental/nursing/etc school. They were some of the hardest working students I've ever gone to school with. Some were single mothers and many were from poor families. They inspired this middle class white boy to do his best while I was there. :thumbup:
 

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you know what??

we all can write a manuscript (paper) on this... collaborative piece of art!
any statistics majors here? it will be a great asset..
 

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Adcoms are not accepting just any URM that applies to their school, the look at the whole picture and use their best judgement to admit students they think will suceed. We all know that admissions is more than just the numbers. If that were the case all we would need to do is send one sheet of paper with our GPA and DAT.

So many things factor in to the application process including how early your file was complete, your essay, interview, and whether your interviewer was in a good mood, to HAVING CONNECTIONS.

Blaming AA is just an easy target. Many policy makers do a cost benefit analysis before they decide any course of action. (10,000 dead Americans/Freedom for Iraq) The cost of AA is miniscule in the big picture and the benefit is large.

Also AA is not based on "skin color". If you don't understand that then an explanation would be wasted.
 

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I really, really, really, hope I don't regret posting this theory I've held that can explain some cases of apparent discrimination in admissions. I don't want to fan any flames, my aim is simply to show that sometimes appearances can be deceiving, expecially when combined with confirmation bias.

Let's say that there are 10 applicants fighting for 3 spots. All the applicants are equal in terms of GPA/DAT/experience. For whatever demographic reasons, the makeup of these ten applicants is:

Majority applicants: 8
Minority applicants: 2
Spots available: 3

Choosing 3 out of these 10 equal applicants objectively is difficult for the adcoms, so they choose to offer spots in an effectively random manner. These adcoms do not in any way discriminate between Majority and Minority applicants, but the results of their effectively random selectons can appear discriminatory:

Case 1: (46.7% chance)
Accepted Majority applicants: 3 (37.5% acceptance rate, 5 rejected)
Accepted Minority applicants: 0 (0% acceptance rate, 2 rejected)

Appears to be: "Clear" discrimination against Minority applicants. People might post to SDN regarding racial barriers in getting a higher education, especially at school X. :)

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Case 2: (46.7% chance)
Accepted Majority applicants: 2 (25% acceptance rate, 6 rejected)
Accepted Minority applicants: 1 (50% acceptance rate, 1 rejected)

Appears to be: "Clear" case of reverse discrimination against Majority applicants. People might post to SDN regarding higher acceptance rates for Minority applicants at school X. :)
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Case 3: (6.7% chance)
Accepted Majority applicants: 1 (12.5% acceptance rate, 7 rejected)
Accepted Minority applicants: 2 (100% acceptance rate, 0 rejected)

Appears to be:
"Clear" case of reverse discrimination against Majority applicants. People might post to SDN with something along the lines of "All you have to do is be a minority to get in at X dental school." :)


Reality in all three cases: It was just chance, even though the 7 rejected applicants were qualified, there aren't enough spots to fit everyone. Dental schools could fill their ranks with 4.0/20+'s if they wanted, but they look for other things like experience, character, etc, that do not appear in statistical averages. Or maybe your interviewer didn't like the color of your suit. :D

To everyone, if you've felt cheated that someone with a lower GPA/DAT got in instead of you, perhaps the other applicant had much better observational/volunteer experience, or a really great interview. We'll never know for sure. Remember, there's probably someone out there with a higher GPA, dental legacy, etc. who feels cheated that YOU got into their school of choice while they got rejected.

Disclaimer: I'm not attacking anyone, and the last thing I want to do is throw fuel on a flame war. Nor am I denying that discrimination (reverse or otherwise) exists. I'm just saying that sometimes what appears to be discrimination can just be an artifact of sheer chance.
 
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EMORYswim

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everyone is taking this way too seriously, i never said that minorities should not get into schools over people, nor did i ever mention affirmative action. all i wanted to do was see what people thought on the issue. for me, it was an annoyance because i do not have the chance to save money and go to an in state school, even though it was not my first choice. i did not realize what kind of fury i was starting, and i apologize if i have offended anybody with my thoughts. the fact of the matter is that, as many have stated, the TRUE reasons for people not getting in will never be known, maybe my interview sucked, this is true. there is no good answer to the question i posted, so i am sorry. best of luck to everyone waiting for replies from schools.
 

airvent

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Gaspar, that is very interesting explanation and well presented.

You've been a member since July 2003 and you only posted twice? If that is the quality of your posts I hope you stick around.
 

The Godfather

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airvent said:
Adcoms are not accepting just any URM that applies to their school, the look at the whole picture and use their best judgement to admit students they think will suceed. We all know that admissions is more than just the numbers. If that were the case all we would need to do is send one sheet of paper with our GPA and DAT.

So many things factor in to the application process including how early your file was complete, your essay, interview, and whether your interviewer was in a good mood, to HAVING CONNECTIONS.

Blaming AA is just an easy target. Many policy makers do a cost benefit analysis before they decide any course of action. (10,000 dead Americans/Freedom for Iraq) The cost of AA is miniscule in the big picture and the benefit is large.

Also AA is not based on "skin color". If you don't understand that then an explanation would be wasted.
I'm sorry, "skin color" was not an accurate choice of words. I hope everyone was able to understand what I meant.
To airvent, if AA is so successful, why is it being dismantled and challenged around the country? Is it just "the man" trying to keep people down, or is it, as evidence suggests, broken? I'm just saying the system needs some tweaking. It should be updated or be dropped, not stagnate until it becomes a far cry from what it was intended for. Look at other programs that don't get changed when they should have. Social security was never designed to be a retirement account for everyone, yet that's what it has become today, and look at that crisis.
I'll add that I was only discussing AA. I do not agree with the original poster of this thread. There are other reasons (mentioned above, by airvent) why you could not have been accepted. Unless you know for sure that that some quota was the reason that you were denied, it's unfair to go playing the race card.
 

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airvent said:
You've been a member since July 2003 and you only posted twice? If that is the quality of your posts I hope you stick around.
:laugh: Oh my god this is funny!!

yeah, gaspar, good work! I totally agree with your idea there. And it was well presented.

Oh yeah, and affirmative action does not "reward poor grades" like someone said earlier. :thumbdown: :(

oh man, i gotta study, gotta study!!
 

The Godfather

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Sorry EMORYswim, missed your last post. Didn't mean to jump on the bandwagon. I'm sure most people here know where you are coming from and the frustrations that this whole admissions things can put you through. People get so serious about race. I guess as long as we keep talking about things, maybe one day everyone can get over it. I saw a comedian one time who said, "I don't understand why anyone would be a racist when there are so many other great reasons to hate people." :)
 

airvent

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The Godfather said:
To airvent, if AA is so successful, why is it being dismantled and challenged around the country? Is it just "the man" trying to keep people down, or is it, as evidence suggests, broken?
Its just politics. The general public has extremely short memories, and they are easily swayed by emotional arguments. I agree trying to defend AA is an upsteam battle and many politicians use it to divide an conquer.

Its being challenged by people who have the view that their seat was stolen. I don't have the definitive answer. I would like to hear what an adcom would say.....I don't know.... I have no problem with AA, Threre are plenty of injustices in this world AA is the least of them.
 

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EMORYswim said:
i in no way want to offend anybody with this, but i think that there is a trend of reverse discrimination in dental school admissions. i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school. all of this added up should result in me being accepted to their school, but i just found out that i have been put on the alternate list. i know that the dean of admission has been very passionate about diversifying the school, to the point that being a white male is a penalty. is this fair? now i have to spend over twice the money to go to a private school, just because i am a white male i think. i am sure that the people who have been accepted to michigan are as smart as they come, so no offense to anyone who is attending, or was accepted.

wow !

Someones playin the racial card....
 

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Stats for the MCAT...

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm

O gee look, white people pretty much dominate everybody in that ****. Wow they even kick asian ass. O **** 21,028 took it, thats a high ass percentage to hold up stats like that.

The best part is "Matriculants", clearly you can see that the white kids are top tier, but only half get in. Half of the blacks with ****ty stats get in as well. Now I bet they are letting in people just because they are black here....
 

Pikeyman

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I wrote a reseach paper on the Michigan issue in my sophomore year.

I have to say, knowing what happened at Michigan, it's easy to see why someone would say "reverse discrimination".

I looked at the Michigan's records (only those that were made public) and the law and medical schools as well as the undergrad were the repeat offenders. Whites with higher GPA's and higher standard test scores were denied while "non-Asian" minorities were granted admissions. As sucky as it is, it's a fact. Whites and Asians were put into a more competitive pool than the others. There's no denying it. I'm sure nothing has changed since. I'm sure they are using some other methods that would not cause a controversy, but still doing a dicriminative weed-out process.

But in the dental schools' case, I don't think there is a non-Asian minority pool as large as the law, medical, undergrad. Every of the interviews I've been to this year (5 total), I did not see one Latino or Afro-American.

With all being said, what do I think about this thread?
The deush bag that started this thread should not be breathing the same air as we all do.

Why? Judge for yourself.
"i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school"
Boo F'cking Hoo!
 

EyeAmCommi

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TravisP said:
Stats for the MCAT...

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm

O gee look, white people pretty much dominate everybody in that ****. Wow they even kick asian ass. O **** 21,028 took it, thats a high ass percentage to hold up stats like that.

The best part is "Matriculants", clearly you can see that the white kids are top tier, but only half get in. Half of the blacks with ****ty stats get in as well. Now I bet they are letting in people just because they are black here....
I don't see how whites dominated the Asians. How many Asians live in the states? All I can gather is that both Asians and whites need to score significantly higher than the other minorities do.
 

Profchaos

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Pikeyman said:
I wrote a reseach paper on the Michigan issue in my sophomore year.

I have to say, knowing what happened at Michigan, it's easy to see why someone would say "reverse discrimination".

I looked at the Michigan's records (only those that were made public) and the law and medical schools as well as the undergrad were the repeat offenders. Whites with higher GPA's and higher standard test scores were denied while "non-Asian" minorities were granted admissions. As sucky as it is, it's a fact. Whites and Asians were put into a more competitive pool than the others. There's no denying it. I'm sure nothing has changed since. I'm sure they are using some other methods that would not cause a controversy, but still doing a dicriminative weed-out process.

But in the dental schools' case, I don't think there is a non-Asian minority pool as large as the law, medical, undergrad. Every of the interviews I've been to this year (5 total), I did not see one Latino or Afro-American.

With all being said, what do I think about this thread?
The deush bag that started this thread should not be breathing the same air as we all do.

Why? Judge for yourself.
"i am a michigan resident, have above average grades/scores, and have family connections to the umich dental school"
Boo F'cking Hoo!
Ha,
very pickey!
 

usdental

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oralskills said:
The way I see it, Asians are the only ones that face discrimation. Asians don't get the benefits that Hispanics and Blacks get.

Some white people go through the back door.
Hispanics and African Americans are welcomed through the front door even though they aren't necessarily qualified.
Asians have to outscore everyone just to get in. Asians face the same discrimination that Hispanics and African Americans face.
Are you for real?? I think it's so sad that some of you guys are going to become health professionals someday, and have this view point.
First of all Hispanics and Blacks are seen as minorities and underpriv. because they don't have the family support system and encouragement at home to pursue a education, whereas a lot of the other races mentioned do and actually are pressured by their families to study.

Dont accuse people of not being qualified, just having the rigt stats does not mean you will be a good dentist or doctor....however, someone who has overcomed all the odds against them, shows that they will be able to succeed with challenges in the future..and have more compassion and help people in need too...not just someone in it for the money
.
 

usdental

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TravisP said:
Stats for the MCAT...

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm

O gee look, white people pretty much dominate everybody in that ****. Wow they even kick asian ass. O **** 21,028 took it, thats a high ass percentage to hold up stats like that.

The best part is "Matriculants", clearly you can see that the white kids are top tier, but only half get in. Half of the blacks with ****ty stats get in as well. Now I bet they are letting in people just because they are black here....
Maybe its because they are granting acceptance to students who show that they will become good, caring, capable doctor...instead of a student who has good stats, but nothing else. YOU THINK? I can't believe people like you are going into a health prof......its so sad
You take those white kids you talk about and place them in some of the situations the "black" and "hispanics" kids overcome...and you won't see them even applying to medical or dental school... plus lot of the doctors those minority doctors give back to communities way more.
It makes a big difference that having to deal with real life issues, and have your parents help you out and encourage your education...have to just worry about school, them someone who has to work, not because their daddy said they should learn to take care of themselves, but because they actually have to support their parents and siblings, but still go to school
I have minority friends with backgrounds that I know I wouldn't be able to be where they are....I would want them as my doctor over any white or asian student with the top stats.....of course the sysem does have loop holes..but your just full of it "white kids are in the top tier" maybe its because I live in cali, but I hardly ever see "white" students..... :rolleyes:
 

paolorossifan

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usdental said:
Are you for real?? I think it's so sad that some of you guys are going to become health professionals someday, and have this view point.
First of all Hispanics and Blacks are seen as minorities and underpriv. because they don't have the family support system and encouragement at home to pursue a education, whereas a lot of the other races mentioned do and actually are pressured by their families to study.

Dont accuse people of not being qualified, just having the rigt stats does not mean you will be a good dentist or doctor....however, someone who has overcomed all the odds against them, shows that they will be able to succeed with challenges in the future..and have more compassion and help people in need too...not just someone in it for the money
.
No one forced anyone, reagrdless of race, to have a support system for thier kids. If SOME (not most) hispanic or Afro-American families lack this it their own fault. No one else's. Those with a support system, or whatever, must now climb hurdles of their own because others parents couldn't get thier act together. Come on this is America! How many come here with nothing and become productive members of society. There is now very little standing in anyone way to imporve thier situtions and not have rely on a Affirmitive Action crutch, while hard working individuals get shaffted because thier parents did a good job providing for them. AA is a blemish on those URM from great families who should be in on their own merit.
 

usdental

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paolorossifan said:
No one forced anyone, reagrdless of race, to have a support system for thier kids. If SOME (not most) hispanic or Afro-American families lack this it their own fault. No one else's. Those with a support system, or whatever, must now climb hurdles of their own because others parents couldn't get thier act together. Come on this is America! How many come here with nothing and become productive members of society. There is now very little standing in anyone way to imporve thier situtions and not have rely on a Affirmitive Action crutch, while hard working individuals get shaffted because thier parents did a good job providing for them. AA is a blemish on those URM from great families who should be in on their own merit.
I thought you said this is "America" There is very little standing in anyones way.....so why are hard working individuals getting shafted.....PLEASE!! Those are the individuals who blame Affirimitive Action being the cause of them getting "shafted". Yeah no one forces families to have a support system, but lots of time its part of the culture....yeah your right its a childs fault to being born to a father who beats him or her and a druggy mother who doesnt think her child need to go to school..yeah the hell with them...hey we all have hurdles to overcome right? Hey..I got a D on my first exam in biochemistry, but I studied hard for the second exam and I got an A...thats a big hurdle right?? :rolleyes: :p
PLEASE!! hey I'm not even a URM, I have parents who came here with nothing, and now are very successful, I am very grateful for them scarificing so much so their kids can have a great future...making sure I had the best education..but I have done a lot of community service and seen how kids are brought up , so when that child grows up and makes something for themself..I do give them credit because to tell you the truth I don't know if I could have...
 

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Apply to my school. They'll take you if you are "diverse," even if your DAT scores and GPA are extremely poor.

Of course, you'll probably fail the board exams, but who cares because you're diverse.
 

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EMORYswim said:
everyone is taking this way too seriously, i never said that minorities should not get into schools over people, nor did i ever mention affirmative action. all i wanted to do was see what people thought on the issue. for me, it was an annoyance because i do not have the chance to save money and go to an in state school, even though it was not my first choice. i did not realize what kind of fury i was starting, and i apologize if i have offended anybody with my thoughts. the fact of the matter is that, as many have stated, the TRUE reasons for people not getting in will never be known, maybe my interview sucked, this is true. there is no good answer to the question i posted, so i am sorry. best of luck to everyone waiting for replies from schools.
Was this a typo? Fruedian slip? Or do you really think like this? I can't believe you typed this.
EMORYswim said:
i never said that minorities should not get into schools over people
So now you don't even think minorities are people? No wonder U of MI doesn't want you, I can't see why anyone would. :smuggrin: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
 

Biogirl361

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i'm pretty sure he meant "over other people", i doubt if he was implying that they aren't people...