LADoc00

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Found out over the weekend a well respected Norcal pathologist died unexpectedly in his mid 50s. He was in outside SF and has been a lab medical director for 20ish years around the Bay Area.

I dont think I will ever see an official obit, he was a pretty private guy so Im going to do a SDN one:

Randy graduated from Loma Linda med school in the early 90s and joined the U.S. Army. Did his training at Walter Reed. He was the chief of pathology at Fort Bragg where the Green Berets are HQ'd. Got into private practice after his time in the service.

First time I met him long ago, I called him "Randy" and he corrected me saying "Major Hausted" and I told him he had to then address me as a USMC corporal! haha
Nice guy, never hesitated to leap in and help out other pathologists even if they were in competing groups.

He told me once he wanted to all pathologists to succeed even that meant he personally a got a smaller slice of the pie.
photo.jpg

Rest in peace bro and Semper Fi.
 
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KeratinPearls

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Found out over the weekend a well respected Norcal pathologist died unexpectedly in his mid 50s. He was in outside SF and has been a lab medical director for 20ish years around the Bay Area.

I dont think I will ever see an official obit, he was a pretty private guy so Im going to do a SDN one:

Randy graduated from Loma Linda med school in the early 90s and joined the U.S. Army. Did his training at Walter Reed. He was the chief of pathology at Fort Bragg where the Green Berets are HQ'd. Got into private practice after his time in the service.

First time I met him long ago, I called him "Randy" and he corrected me saying "Major Hausted" and I told him he had to then address me as a USMC corporal! haha
Nice guy, never hesitated to leap in and help out other pathologists even if they were in competing groups.

He told me once he wanted to all pathologists to succeed even that meant he personally a got a smaller slice of the pie.

View attachment 315367

Rest in peace bro and Semper Fi.

✊ Rest In Peace.
 
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LADoc00

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Update: appears to be a COVID death per coroner office. Not sure but this would be the first otherwise younger, healthy pathologist to die in the US?

Anyone confirm? If it is, it is 100% occupationally contracted as he had no life outside work (like many of us) and lived alone.
 

doctor313

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Update: appears to be a COVID death per coroner office. Not sure but this would be the first otherwise younger, healthy pathologist to die in the US?

Anyone confirm? If it is, it is 100% occupationally contracted as he had no life outside work (like many of us) and lived alone.

It might be hard to prove it's occupationally contracted... even if they live alone, people still need to venture out occasionally to go shopping, etc. At least in my neck of the woods, there is much more adherence to masking / staying at home when sick in the hospital than in the grocery stores / other public places. Would be nice to know if there are any known cases of pathologists contracting COVID at work though. So far people in the know at my institution have said that there are no such reported cases, even among those who have done numerous COVID autopsies.
 

LADoc00

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It might be hard to prove it's occupationally contracted... even if they live alone, people still need to venture out occasionally to go shopping, etc. At least in my neck of the woods, there is much more adherence to masking / staying at home when sick in the hospital than in the grocery stores / other public places. Would be nice to know if there are any known cases of pathologists contracting COVID at work though. So far people in the know at my institution have said that there are no such reported cases, even among those who have done numerous COVID autopsies.

This case is the focus of significant medical and public health interest. I will report back once I know more. One hypothesis I did put forth was the physical layout of his sign out room. His lab was quite old and cramped. With the addition of several new analyzers and RNA extraction equipment arriving a few months ago, I am quite concerned he was forced into putting some of the equipment outside a microbiological hood. If his personal microscope was then close to this set up, small micro-inoculations over several weeks may have been the trigger.

Other physicians may not realize but pathologists have insecure and often tenuous contracts with hospital administration and sometimes the turnover in contracts is quite high leading many to only sheepishly object to otherwise quite dangerous work conditions.

This all made much more complex as he died alone, unattended and was only found on a welfare check by LE. His precise time of death is therefore speculation. This is a tragedy of the highest order in my book.
 

doctor313

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This case is the focus of significant medical and public health interest. I will report back once I know more. One hypothesis I did put forth was the physical layout of his sign out room. His lab was quite old and cramped. With the addition of several new analyzers and RNA extraction equipment arriving a few months ago, I am quite concerned he was forced into putting some of the equipment outside a microbiological hood. If his personal microscope was then close to this set up, small micro-inoculations over several weeks may have been the trigger.

Other physicians may not realize but pathologists have insecure and often tenuous contracts with hospital administration and sometimes the turnover in contracts is quite high leading many to only sheepishly object to otherwise quite dangerous work conditions.

This all made much more complex as he died alone, unattended and was only found on a welfare check by LE. His precise time of death is therefore speculation. This is a tragedy of the highest order in my book.

Wow... thank you for the additional context. To my knowledge, RNA extraction equipment / analyzers are not routinely kept within biosafety hoods - not even in larger reference labs like ours. I understand that our molecular instruments are in negative pressure rooms, however, but the people working in those rooms are not protected the same way they would be if the instruments were within their own hoods.

The larger work safety issues you mentioned for pathologists in smaller hospitals are concerning indeed, COVID aside. They fit the general sentiment that gets repeated again and again, however, that pathologists need to stand up and advocate for themselves better than they currently do, for better wages, working conditions, etc.

Should we start a pathology union?
 

Thr0mbus

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The solution to all this garbage of oversupply,poor contracts and working conditions is to stop having the taxpayer pay to train residents.
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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I've seen many younger pathologists die from embolism. With covid around, it might be a good idea to at least do aspirin therapy right now and for god's sake move around more during the day.
 

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I've seen many younger pathologists die from embolism. With covid around, it might be a good idea to at least do aspirin therapy right now and for god's sake move around more during the day.

We all should get a standing desk! I definitely think about the fact I sit around a lot and go home and lie in bed reading.
 

LADoc00

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We could all strike. Better work conditions better pay more secure contracts etc.
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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We all should get a standing desk! I definitely think about the fact I sit around a lot and go home and lie in bed reading.

Get some other hobbies besides reading. Hunting, fishing, running are all good. I'm going down to crohns creek tonight to frog gig which is also fun.
 
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mikesheree

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I may have met this gentleman. Going back that far, a good buddy and mentor of mine was later chief of pathology in Hawaii and he later joined my group after he retired as a full COL in the army after changing from navy when i first met him. Stunningly brilliant person,better pathologist than i’ve ever seen and a REAL polymath. 2 PhD’s ( in humanities no less), retired FULL Colonel(switched from navy). While in Berlin he attended the Hess autopsy as the American representative of the four powers. His big motivation for the Berlin assignment was access to Virchow’s papers.

It is this army/navy nexus that almost makes me sure I met this gentleman. RIP
 
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mikesheree

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Get some other hobbies besides reading. Hunting, fishing, running are all good. I'm going down to crohns creek tonight to frog gig which is also fun.

Webb is right. Y’all gotta retire if at all possible. This is b.s. and has been for YEARS. And it is getting worse. How was your day today? I spent mine zeroing my new Springfield Arms super match M1A. ( all the liberals can cringe and leave with disgust).
I had a blast.

Point is, if it is getting bad, DO SOMETHING YOU LOVE.
I know it is an old “chestnut” but this is not a dress rehearsal.

Just some thoughts on my sadness for path, and medicine in general.

P.S. Webb, I bet I caught bigger frogs with my bare hands than you ever gigged! That’s how I rolled when I was a kid.
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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Webb is right. Y’all gotta retire if at all possible. This is b.s. and has been for YEARS. And it is getting worse. How was your day today? I spent mine zeroing my new Springfield Arms super match M1A. ( all the liberals can cringe and leave with disgust).
I had a blast.

Point is, if it is getting bad, DO SOMETHING YOU LOVE.
I know it is an old “chestnut” but this is not a dress rehearsal.

Just some thoughts on my sadness for path, and medicine in general.

P.S. Webb, I bet I caught bigger frogs with my bare hands than you ever gigged! That’s how I rolled when I was a kid.

I am more advocating for staying active and I also believe everyone entering this field should be tested for factor 5 and other clotting disorders. I am tired of seeing so many young pathologists dying from emboli. I can rattle off 10 or so I personally knew over the years. I was fortunate to survive my ordeal.

Pathology is horrible for your health due to the sitting and the chemicals. If the clots don't get you, you get to look forward to a neurological issue or cancer from formalin and xylene.
 

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I am more advocating for staying active and I also believe everyone entering this field should be tested for factor 5 and other clotting disorders. I am tired of seeing so many young pathologists dying from emboli. I can rattle off 10 or so I personally knew over the years. I was fortunate to survive my ordeal.

Pathology is horrible for your health due to the sitting and the chemicals. If the clots don't get you, you get to look forward to a neurological issue or cancer from formalin and xylene.
Or from the depths of despair from being treated like a second class physician.
 

coroner

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Webb is right. Y’all gotta retire if at all possible. This is b.s. and has been for YEARS. And it is getting worse. How was your day today? I spent mine zeroing my new Springfield Arms super match M1A. ( all the liberals can cringe and leave with disgust).
I had a blast.

Point is, if it is getting bad, DO SOMETHING YOU LOVE.
I know it is an old “chestnut” but this is not a dress rehearsal.

This advice is just not practical for many on here (including myself) who are 5-10 years into our career (or less). We are at the point of no return. With med school debt, buying a first home, raising a family, and the years already invested into becoming a pathologist, one can't [realistically] go back and just start another career out of "love". Retirement, at this point is also out of the question. Again, many on here are 20-30 years away from it; therefore, cannot afford to do so. Glad you're living the life in retirement and it seems well earned. I would take from your advice to save as much as possible, invest wisely, and work on creating other income streams. But, in the meantime, I gotta keep slappin' glass to keep the lights on...
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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I have never lived by the "do what you love" advice. If I did that I'd be in prison.

Slap glass and do your best to be prepared for a mid career pivot.
 

WEBB PINKERTON

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Fluoro exposure is another occupational hazard. I forgot about that till I was standing in the hybrid OR for a few hours today getting "cooked".
 

KeratinPearls

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I have never lived by the "do what you love" advice. If I did that I'd be in prison.

Slap glass and do your best to be prepared for a mid career pivot.

No one in their right mind is going to change careers unless you find something that pays better or makes you happier. Highly unlikely unless you start a successful business or completely change careers where you are earning more income than your typical pathologist.

To find the time to switch careers is possible but will you have the time as a pathologist to prepare yourself to change fields (like taking classea, etc)? We’ve invested so many years to become doctors.

Pathologists make a decent income with good hours and lifestyle. Some do very well. Why would you want to switch careers. Unless you become a great stock trader or real estate investor, there’s no need to switch careers.
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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If disruptive technology comes along, you could be forced to change careers. My advice to younger ones is to be prepared to pivot at some point. Some of the disruption is not that far off. Ask those in cytopath that watched their accession counts drop by 80 percent very quickly. It was a harbinger of more to come.
 
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Vicinal

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Been waiting for disruptive technologies for years.... nothing sticks because slapping glass is an incredible effective test for a reasonable cost. Agree that trainee taxpayer support should be seriously audited. Having hobbies is part of being a human being... I appreciate octogenarians white knuckling the micro focus knob but as soon as I can I’m outta here.
 

KeratinPearls

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If disruptive technology comes along, you could be forced to change careers. My advice to younger ones is to be prepared to pivot at some point. Some of the disruption is not that far off. Ask those in cytopath that watched their accession counts drop by 80 percent very quickly. It was a harbinger of more to come.

Talking about disruptive technology, anyone know how far AI is coming to replacing pathologists?

I know of the pathologist who works for PathAI. They are a large group now, like a mini-Google.com. Anyone willing to leak their secrets? Lol

PathAI
 
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AI is coming, and quickly.

Check out Google AI's prostate biopsy study, as well as another one just published from UPMC.

AI now is more of an adjunct, but has been FDA approved.

And Paige.ai is another up and comer
 

Vicinal

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No such thing as AI in the real world as touted by sci-fi peeps. Sure there will be powerful screening algorithms that will be the equivalent of spell check in word processing. It may help with work load but won’t replace. Can’t see that happening but I guess anything is possible. Let’s see how we can get computers to sign out and get paid for it.... hmmm. First things first. Audit the taxpayer support of resident education or have an actual LIS or EMR that doesn’t suck big time. That would be easier. Why solve problems that aren’t really the issue. First things first. All these mass spectrometry imaging stuff and AI blah blah blah. Seems like clinical pathologists are just jealous of glass slappers. Especially in academics.
 
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KeratinPearls

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AI is coming, and quickly.

Check out Google AI's prostate biopsy study, as well as another one just published from UPMC.

AI now is more of an adjunct, but has been FDA approved.

And Paige.ai is another up and comer

Damn just put your slide in the machine and AI will spit out a diagnosis, grade and complete your synoptic reports for you. I mean if pathologists get replaced, surely radiologists will be replaced as well.
 

Vicinal

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These studies are suspect. I guess quantifying 3+4 Versus 4+3 and percentage in a core is easier done by a machine. What does more accurate specifically mean? I think the computer may get better at quantitative but all the variants of a 4 in core would be hard to program. I call BS.
 

WEBB PINKERTON

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I'd be more afraid of Guardant health and those companies eating into your accession count. I am seeing the effect of them and (others similar to them) NOW on our business.

Bottom line, get other sources of income going ASAP. Many younger paths may be forced to pivot.

I wish the poster Nightmare3000 would come back and elaborate on the pathologists he knows doing Bosley hair transplants. That could be something we could do to make money.
 
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Thr0mbus

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I know Plumbers and Electricians make more than many pathologists.
 
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Vicinal

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Also HVAC people, welders, mechanics, police, data scientists, CPA, fund managers, carpenters, diesel mechanics, truck drivers,
 
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We're talking about using that Ibex/UPMC algorithm as a screening/measuring aid, sort of replacing a fellow's contribution. I think that's the kind of thing AI will be helpful for the foreseeable future. By increasing efficiency it could start to reduce demand for pathologists. Now if you really want to reduce trainees, create AI robots to gross specimens.
 
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Vicinal

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We're talking about using that Ibex/UPMC algorithm as a screening/measuring aid, sort of replacing a fellow's contribution. I think that's the kind of thing AI will be helpful for the foreseeable future. By increasing efficiency it could start to reduce demand for pathologists. Now if you really want to reduce trainees, create AI robots to gross specimens.
Yeah like spell check. Grossing should be human. I’d like to see Histo.... embedding, processing, sectioning be automated. Some are doing it already.
 

LADoc00

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I know Plumbers and Electricians make more than many pathologists.

The guy who owns the big plumbing company in my small town makes about 2m a year.

My electrician charges me more per day than I pay for locums pathology coverage.
 

WEBB PINKERTON

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LADoc, you probably shouldn't have posted this on Facebook. You have given away your identity on that bizarre right wing facebook page you have going.
 

KeratinPearls

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Seriously? Where? As independent contractors? Employed? Own business?
I have a family member that is a welder and doesn’t make near that.

That’s like saying I know pathologists making 1.5-2M$. (Leboit). There are outliers for every field. Yes they exist but they are few and far in between.
 
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Vicinal

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In every field there are super stars and sub specialists. This individual does custom high end iron work. Although a welder by training, they leveraged that skill it do custom work on high end projects. Point being that it is far less responsibility and debt to do niche skills that can develop into a great living. Medicine is a rough road with sacrifices and major debt accumulation. If the goal is financial independence and less of a crazy up front debt burden for motivated talented people there are many paths. not sure what undergrad, Med school, and loan deferred residency cost nowadays. im guessing it approaches 550K for the average AMG. How long does it take a 25-30 year old to pay that down while trying to possibly buy a house, start a family, save for retirement while paying for a justified “I have delayed gratification” lifestyle?
 

mikesheree

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In every field there are super stars and sub specialists. This individual does custom high end iron work. Although a welder by training, they leveraged that skill it do custom work on high end projects. Point being that it is far less responsibility and debt to do niche skills that can develop into a great living. Medicine is a rough road with sacrifices and major debt accumulation. If the goal is financial independence and less of a crazy up front debt burden for motivated talented people there are many paths. not sure what undergrad, Med school, and loan deferred residency cost nowadays. im guessing it approaches 550K for the average AMG. How long does it take a 25-30 year old to pay that down while trying to possibly buy a house, start a family, save for retirement while paying for a justified “I have delayed gratification” lifestyle?

You cannot unless you a live like a resident for another 5 years AFTER residency. Then you should be in good shape unless you were just blatantly irresponsible with your level of debt.
 
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LADoc00

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LADoc, you probably shouldn't have posted this on Facebook. You have given away your identity on that bizarre right wing facebook page you have going.

Im genuinely curious, what bizarre right wing facebook page? hahaha, are you serious?

link it. I googled the thread title and didnt see anything but this thread...
 
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LADoc00

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Not sure about the average welder making 350/hr. that would be 728K a year. I know welders. All female welders too.

Maybe a single small job where he/she arrives on site for an hour?

Things are messed up for sure, but not sure they are that messed up. Maybe owning a welding company?
 

Vicinal

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Ok ok ya got me hyperbole. Unlikely that the average welder would remotely make that much. This is more of a welder “artist” businessperson. Kinda like there are interior designers and interior designers. This is a person that trained as a welder and now does custom rod iron pieces for wealthy to ultra wealthy. This like gates, mobiles, bannisters, with custom flairs. It’s awesome to see how far a skill can go in a motivated and talented practitioner. Maybe the Leboit of welding.
 

WEBB PINKERTON

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Im genuinely curious, what bizarre right wing facebook page? hahaha, are you serious?

link it. I googled the thread title and didnt see anything but this thread...

I tried to find his obituary and stumbled into your bizarre facebook page because you posted the exact same message on there. Of course you aren't using your complete full name on there but your parents give you away. Nice looking new dog by the way. I feel bad for that democrat guy from Sacramento who posts on your page, he seems a little out of place. LOL.

Sorry you have had such a rough period the last 5 years. Definitely praying for you.
 
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LADoc00

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I tried to find his obituary and stumbled into your bizarre facebook page because you posted the exact same message on there. Of course you aren't using your complete full name on there but your parents give you away. Nice looking new dog by the way. I feel bad for that democrat guy from Sacramento who posts on your page, he seems a little out of place. LOL.

Sorry you have had such a rough period the last 5 years. Definitely praying for you.

I love my dog. Dogs are awesome, like the eternal friend who just listens to you bitch about your day, saying nothing and then licks your face when you are too tired to keep babbling.
 

WEBB PINKERTON

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I had to give up dogs. Where I live neighborhood dogs run wild and there are fights daily. Mine were bad offenders too. I don't want a Rand Paul situation where some neighbor takes issue with my dogs and beats the hell out of me. Of course they were fighting over a tree as I recall.
 

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