RISE Question

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BlondeDocteur

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Is the RISE disaggregated into AP & CP? If I'm AP-only, will I only take half of it, or take the whole thing and just bomb the CP sections?

Also as you might know in surgery the in-training exam is a sacred cow, and your scores follow you your whole training life. Fellowship selection is predicated on it. That's not true in path, right?

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If you're AP only, you only sign up for the AP section. UTSW specifically likes to track improvement. However, I am pretty sure that RISE scores matter little with regards to fellowship placement. On occasion, I have seen PDs highlight an applicant's superior RISE scores. Maybe that's all that they have going for them or maybe it just cements how "good" they are. In my experience, this is hit or miss with regards to the particular applicant. I've seen qualified applicants with amazing scores and then I've seen so-so applicants who also happen to score really well.

As a side rant, I don't know know how to accurately assess one's performance on the RISE. Yes, you're given a percentile, etc, but I know that A LOT of programs do not proctor this exam (UTSW does). In fact, I recently had a friend call me last year on their cell phone while they were trying to get through the special topics section, "Hey, what is your experience with..." That same program (top tier university) did use their scores as a means to evaluate their advancement up the ladder. This is why I don't think this exam is taken seriously.
 
The RISE is separated into AP (includes cyto, forensics and surg path), CP (includes chemistry, hematology and microbiology) and "special topics" (includes hemepath, lab admin and molecular). We don't have any AP-only or CP-only residents at our program, but I would assume that you could probably just take AP or maybe AP and special topics.

I don't think that RISE scores are of tremendous importance in pathology (certainly not in the way that you are describing their use in surgery). I know some programs will use cutoffs to put residents on academic probation of some sort or as a factor in deciding who will be chief resident(s). I didn't even put my RISE scores on my CV when applying to fellowships, although I think one of my LOR writers might have listed them in their letter. The general rumor seems to be that there is a lot of variation in how pathology residents take the RISE. For example, I have heard (direct word of mouth) of programs that don't actually give their residents any off-service time to take the exam; they are expected to take in unsupervised, on their own time. I have also heard (only second/third hand in rumors) of programs in which the residents help each other with the RISE/take it as a group. Maybe that could be part of the reason that pathology fellowship program directors don't rely on RISE scores very much?
 
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Interesting. I like the buddy system idea. So collegial.
 
Yes, RISE scores are not a useful way to compare residents. It can be useful for you to track your own progress, but beyond that it is meaningless. When I first took the RISE as a first year resident I had 3 months of autopsy, 1 month of Cyto, and 1 month of surg path under my belt. Had I started on different rotations I could have had 5 months of surgpath, and my score would have been very different.

I have analyzed the RISE data that is put out every year. Some data has shown a correlation between a score above 500 and passing the boards, but this is weak, IMHO. If you look at their data, there is no significant difference in RISE scores between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year residents. I think that tells you all you need to know about this test.

I suggest everyone should take the RISE without any special preparation. It can tell you where your weaknesses are, and what you can focus on for the future.
 
Yes, RISE scores are not a useful way to compare residents. It can be useful for you to track your own progress, but beyond that it is meaningless . . .
I suggest everyone should take the RISE without any special preparation. It can tell you where your weaknesses are, and what you can focus on for the future.

I've never really studied for the RISE before. However, I've started studying with moderate intensity for the Board exams, which effectively also prepares me for this year's RISE. I am hoping to see a bump of some sort in my scores compared to previous years, as an indication that I am learning something useful (useful for test taking purposes, anyway).
 
I have analyzed the RISE data that is put out every year. Some data has shown a correlation between a score above 500 and passing the boards, but this is weak, IMHO. If you look at their data, there is no significant difference in RISE scores between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year residents. I think that tells you all you need to know about this test.

I think it would be an understatement to say that there is no significant difference in RISE scores between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th year residents. If you look at the overall score and each section scores, you would see that there's a 30-40 point increase as you go up the year level. The largest increases tend to be in subjects that require rotation exposure/experience in order to master, e.g. Hemepath, cytology, and surgical pathology. Conversely, in areas where the subject is not specifically instructed during residency (like lab managment), one sees only a small bump in score as you go up the PGY level. A 30-40 point increase each year may not seem significant, but as the RISE scores are curved, a 30-40 point difference near the median score actually represents quite a few additional questions that one needs to answer correctly. By comparison, if you're at the upper or lower extreme of the curve, then one or two questions that you answered correctly/incorrectly may actually result in a much larger difference in the score.

And I've always heard about the magic score of 500 that has been used to predict board success/failure. I have tried to search online for any published sources to see if there has actually been a study, but could not find anything. According to actual data published by the ASCP, it is much more meaningful to look at the percentile rank as opposed to the absolute score. They correlated PGY4's performance on the 2008 and 2009 RISE administration with their subsequent board passing rate. For the 2008 RISE, the top quartile, 2nd quartile, 3rd quartile, and bottom quartile had a subsequent board pass rate of 97%, 92%, 86%, and 46% respectively. For the 2009 RISE, the numbers were 100%, 99%, 94%, and 66%, respectively. So I think the moral of the story is, if you're above the mean on your PGY4 RISE, then there's only a very small chance (~3%) of failing the board. They stated that for PGY4 in the bottom quartile, only 1/2 - 1/3 passed all of their certifying exams. In addition, if a resident is in the lowest quartile as a junior, they are likely (2/3) to be in the lowest quartile for their senior RISE score.

Source: http://www.apcprods.org/PRODS/documents/H_Rinder_USCAP_2012.pdf (page 17 of the document)

Also, according to page 15 of the document, nobody who scores 570 or higher on surgical pathology OR cytology fails their AP boards. Similarly, nobody who scores 600 or higher on hematology OR chemistry fails their CP boards.

Page 26 also has some interesting statistics: on average, programs that do not proctor the RISE exam (15% of all programs in 2010) only score 3 points higher than those that do (488 vs 485). A surprisingly small difference. Residents that take the exam unproctored do significantly better in surgical pathology and molecular, but worse in microbiology (!?), than those who the exam in a proctored setting.
 
I've never really studied for the RISE before. However, I've started studying with moderate intensity for the Board exams, which effectively also prepares me for this year's RISE. I am hoping to see a bump of some sort in my scores compared to previous years, as an indication that I am learning something useful (useful for test taking purposes, anyway).

Just as a followup . . . Studying for boards does seem to have produced a bump in my RISE score this year compared to previous years. That is all.
 
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