ROAD specialties not as appealing anymore?

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atomi said:
Optho is one of the few ultra-competitive specialties where it's still possible to get in with lower step 1 scores (rad onc being the other). Derm, ortho, plastics, anything less than 230 and you can't get any interviews without connections. 220-230 step 1 is doable for optho. At least it was a few years ago.
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Well, that's nice to hear! Maybe I'll have a chance after all.......
 
atomi said:
Optho is one of the few ultra-competitive specialties where it's still possible to get in with lower step 1 scores (rad onc being the other). Derm, ortho, plastics, anything less than 230 and you can't get any interviews without connections. 220-230 step 1 is doable for optho. At least it was a few years ago.
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Unfortunately you have no clue what you are talking about. I just matched ophtho and met all kind of ppl on the interview trail, so I think I have a good idea on this. 😉 The average unmatched Step 1 score this year was a 226. The average matched score was 242. Clearly that doesn't bode well for ppl in the 220s. It is generally only possible to match in the 220s if you have a crazy amount of research. Most ppl with 220s do a research year or somehow managed to get a bunch of research in. I'm not talking 1-2 pubs, but 4-5 ophtho pubs. However, this is the case for all specialties, not just ophtho or radonc. Ortho is not any more competitive than the ophtho or radonc and you can also match with a lower Step 1 and lots of research. Derm is slightly more competitive and plastics even more so but still research can seemingly overcome anything in all fields. The thing is those ppl are the exceptions so you should not rely on them. But, any field is doable if you really want it. You'll just need to spend extra time doing research and making connections. Another big thing is you can get programs to interview you by showing extra interest through email/calling. Those last minute interviews are just fill-ins for cancellations, though, so it doesn't mean they'll rank you high.

Bottom line is you can do any field you want with enough persistence. Ophtho, ortho and radonc are almost identical in terms of average Step 1, % AOA, and match rate. Derm is a little more competitive and plastics is the most competitive.
 
rocketbooster said:
Another big thing is you can get programs to interview you by showing extra interest through email/calling.
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I could not agree with this more. Every interview offer I received except for one of them was from programs I went out of my way to contact the program coordinator and tell them I was interested. Even more important if you are afraid a lower score might get you screened out.
 
MedStud! said:
I could not agree with this more. Every interview offer I received except for one of them was from programs I went out of my way to contact the program coordinator and tell them I was interested. Even more important if you are afraid a lower score might get you screened out.
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Yep. I got a little more than a dozen interviews and half of them were by contacting programs via email. Like I said, unfortunately you do not want to rely too much on these though because you are probably literally their last choice to interview and are unlikely to be ranked high. However, there are definitely ppl who match to these programs. So, it IS def worth doing and seems most ppl do. With so many qualified applicants, it's hard for them to pick who to interview. In ophtho (and probably the same for the rest), there is a huge regional bias on where you interview. It is much harder to get interviews outside your region. Contacting programs or doing aways is a way to try to break that, but in the end I still felt the ppl from that region still had the advantage in the end.
 
Optometry will overcome!! By the way we have surgical privileges in 3 states so far (peri-ocular excisions, laser eye surgery), watch out Ophthalmology we have a more efficient educational system 🙂



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RadixLuminogen said:
Optometry will overcome!! By the way we have surgical privileges in 3 states so far (peri-ocular excisions, laser eye surgery), watch out Ophthalmology we have a more efficient educational system 🙂



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Very clever of you optometrists to create such a poorly drawn, out of focus/blurry series of graphics. Trying to drum up some extra business in this poor economy, I suppose?
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Very clever of you optometrists to create such a poorly drawn, out of focus/blurry series of graphics. Trying to drum up some extra business in this poor economy, I suppose?
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The original ones are much better. When I compiled all 4 the quality went slightly down but it does not diminish the point. We get enough extra business as physicians on Medicare kthx
 
RadixLuminogen said:
The original ones are much better. When I compiled all 4 the quality went slightly down but it does not diminish the point. We get enough extra business as physicians on Medicare kthx
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I remember when you used to troll under your other name (which escapes me at the moment).

You'd get more bites on the actual ophtho board. If you're gonna troll effectively, at least try to increase your yield.
 
RadixLuminogen said:
The original ones are much better. When I compiled all 4 the quality went slightly down but it does not diminish the point. We get enough extra business as physicians on Medicare kthx
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Hey Schurnek, how's it going?

Yes optometrists can prescribe most things. However, they cannot do any form of real surgery and have significantly less knowledge on the eye than ophthalmologists. They mainly refract and treat basic eye complaints. All the surgery and complicated patients go to the ophthalmologists. Ophthalmologists do all the surgery, treat everything from simple to complicated cases and overall have a solid medical background since they completed med school and an intern year. The most lucrative ophthalmologists and optometrists are those who work together and make bank. The optoms cover the basic stuff in clinic, while the MDs spend more time on surgery and the complicated cases. Essentially, the best practices have optometrists work like PAs and the ophthalmologists are able to spend more time in the OR and with complicated patients.
 
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rocketbooster said:
Unfortunately you have no clue what you are talking about. I just matched ophtho and met all kind of ppl on the interview trail, so I think I have a good idea on this. 😉 The average unmatched Step 1 score this year was a 226. The average matched score was 242. Clearly that doesn't bode well for ppl in the 220s.
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Calm down. I never said that you can breeze right into optho with a 220. I simply said it was possible whereas it's highly unlikely in derm or PRS. Also keep in mind that dozens of people apply in every competitive specialty with 210-230 step 1 scores every year. Why don't you ever hear about these numbers on the trail? Because people are usually smart enough not to go around talking about their subpar board scores.
 
atomi said:
Calm down. I never said that you can breeze right into optho with a 220. I simply said it was possible whereas it's highly unlikely in derm or PRS. Also keep in mind that dozens of people apply in every competitive specialty with 210-230 step 1 scores every year. Why don't you ever hear about these numbers on the trail? Because people are usually smart enough not to go around talking about their subpar board scores.
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Lol, do ppl on the interview trail actually talk about board scores?

Applicant 1: Hey, did you know the charting outcomes say that the average matched Step 1 was 242?
Applicant 2: Yeah, I felt good since I won't have to worry with my 246.
Applicant 1: Same here, with my 248.
Applicants 1&2: AHAHAHAHHA!!!
:highfive:
 
rocketbooster said:
Hey Schurnek, how's it going?

Yes optometrists can prescribe most things. However, they cannot do any form of real surgery and have significantly less knowledge on the eye than ophthalmologists. They mainly refract and treat basic eye complaints. All the surgery and complicated patients go to the ophthalmologists. Ophthalmologists do all the surgery, treat everything from simple to complicated cases and overall have a solid medical background since they completed med school and an intern year. The most lucrative ophthalmologists and optometrists are those who work together and make bank. The optoms cover the basic stuff in clinic, while the MDs spend more time on surgery and the complicated cases. Essentially, the best practices have optometrists work like PAs and the ophthalmologists are able to spend more time in the OR and with complicated patients.
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This is true however we have our own autonomous license so no direct supervision is needed unlike PAs. Which actually makes us more valuable to hire 😀
 
So I guess an optometrist can use an epi pen if the patient happens to be having an anaphylactic reaction right in front of them? I can't imagine any other situation that an optometrist would be giving an injectable...flu shots anyone?
 
RadixLuminogen said:
Optometry will overcome!! By the way we have surgical privileges in 3 states so far (peri-ocular excisions, laser eye surgery), watch out Ophthalmology we have a more efficient educational system 🙂



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Is it bad that the idea of someone prescribing systemic drugs when they literally trained on ONE PART of the body concerns me? If someone tries to bring up dentists, it is not the same, they take all the same anatomy, biochemistry, physiology courses we do and then essentially spend the last 2 years of dental school serving as residents (wish we could do that).
 
scarletgirl777 said:
Is it bad that the idea of someone prescribing systemic drugs when they literally trained on ONE PART of the body concerns me? If someone tries to bring up dentists, it is not the same, they take all the same anatomy, biochemistry, physiology courses we do and then essentially spend the last 2 years of dental school serving as residents (wish we could do that).
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Except Optometrists train on systemic disease as well so your facts are wrong. Dental school is very similar to Optometry school. We take anatomy, biochem, physiology, general and ocular pharmacology, histology, microbiology and more.
Then in 3rd and 4th years we are basically like residents. For example I am going to a VA Hospital, a secondary and tertiary care private center and West Point Army Hospital for my 3 out rotations.

Even the entrance exam to Optometry school is the same as Dental school except no perceptual ability and we have an extra physics section.

Hope this clears up some confusion.
Baller MD said:
Lmao. You guys are hired by MDs.
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Yes, or we can hire MDs. Works either way in many states.
 
How many of you guys even know how to properly focus an ophthalmoscope? Or do you just see a fuzzy red reflex and pretend to see the retina
 
RadixLuminogen said:
How many of you guys even know how to properly focus an ophthalmoscope? Or do you just see a fuzzy red reflex and pretend to see the retina
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Usually I have the eye-looker-thing turned around backwards, and so that way I can see my own eye and tell the patient that their eye looks awesome.
 
I dont think midlevels are going to kill off any field, our healthcare demands are exploding in pretty much every field. Although I could see physicians in certain fields trending more towards roles that involve a mix of supervising mid-levels as opposed to providing direct patient care 100% of the time.
 
RadixLuminogen said:
How many of you guys even know how to properly focus an ophthalmoscope? Or do you just see a fuzzy red reflex and pretend to see the retina
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Like I said, there aren't enough ophtho kids who would care about your schtick on this thread. I bet you will have a blast back on the ophtho forums. Best of luck!
 
RadixLuminogen said:
For example I am going to a VA Hospital, a secondary and tertiary care private center and West Point Army Hospital for my 3 out rotations.
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That's badass. A VA and a secondary care center were already too much, but then you dropped that small, low-acuity community military treatment facility on me. Now, I'm blown away, particularly because 75% of its patient population is pre-and annually screened for health issues. I need to sit down.
 
mcloaf said:
29erk0g.gif
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I bet a 3rd year optometry student knows more about eyes than any M.D. or D.O. that does not specialize in ophthalmology.

And also I used the resident simile because a previous M.D. student claimed that Dentists were like residents during their 3rd and 4th years.
 
RadixLuminogen said:
I bet a 3rd year optometry student knows more about eyes than any M.D. or D.O. that does not specialize in ophthalmology
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I should sure as fuck hope so. At that point, you've spent 2 years focusing on the eye, while your medical school counterpart has spent less than 2 weeks. If you're not more knowledgeable at that point, what have you been doing for the last 104 weeks?

That's why ophthalmologists do ophthalmology residencies.
 
The way these threads get derailed by trolling (intentional or unintentional) is amusing.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I should sure as **** hope so. At that point, you've spent 2 years focusing on the eye, while your medical school counterpart has spent less than 2 weeks. If you're not more knowledgeable at that point, what have you been doing for the last 104 weeks?

That's why ophthalmologists do ophthalmology residencies.
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Quoted for posterity.

Are the language filters on hiatus? Or is this the brave, new SDN?

Edit: Wait. WTF? How does it bleep out the quote but not the original?
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I should sure as **** hope so. At that point, you've spent 2 years focusing on the eye, while your medical school counterpart has spent less than 2 weeks. If you're not more knowledgeable at that point, what have you been doing for the last 104 weeks?

That's why ophthalmologists do ophthalmology residencies.
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Hence, the resident simile.
 
Gas is still great money but too many limitations hospital based.
 
RadixLuminogen said:
Except Optometrists train on systemic disease as well so your facts are wrong. Dental school is very similar to Optometry school. We take anatomy, biochem, physiology, general and ocular pharmacology, histology, microbiology and more.
Then in 3rd and 4th years we are basically like residents. For example I am going to a VA Hospital, a secondary and tertiary care private center and West Point Army Hospital for my 3 out rotations.

Even the entrance exam to Optometry school is the same as Dental school except no perceptual ability and we have an extra physics section.

Hope this clears up some confusion.


Yes, or we can hire MDs. Works either way in many states.
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Schurnek, nursing students also take anatomy, biochem, phys, pharm, histo and micro too. Since the name of the class is the same as that in med school then obviously nurses know as much about those topics as doctors, right?

Even dental school's depth is nowhere close to med school. My friend is in dental school and we were studying for boards at the sametime. I did some of his practice questions and got them all correct, while he did like 10 UWorld questions and missed them all. If you have worked regularly with both ophthos and optoms and pay attention to each's general medical knowledge, it's clear the optoms know essentially zero. Not only are your classes way more superficial than the med school counterpart, but then you get zero clinical training in actually seeing patients for general medical complaints. What do you think med students are doing in their 3rd and 4th years? Then when the optom has a complicated eye case, they go running to their ophtho colleagues to handle it. An ophtho program I rotated at told their new residents that they will know more about the eye than most MDs after 2 weeks of residency and more than most optoms after 2 months of residency.

As you've been told by many, don't hate just because you couldn't get into med school. If you want to be a real eye doctor, then stop complaining and go through the entire process like the rest of us.
 
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RadixLuminogen said:
Optometry will overcome!! By the way we have surgical privileges in 3 states so far (peri-ocular excisions, laser eye surgery), watch out Ophthalmology we have a more efficient educational system 🙂



10000274_10100666114992120_1591359213_n.jpg
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You know how I know you're Schnurek? He used to use these exact same maps.

Have fun while it lasts till you get banned again.
 
RadixLuminogen said:
Except Optometrists train on systemic disease as well so your facts are wrong. Dental school is very similar to Optometry school. We take anatomy, biochem, physiology, general and ocular pharmacology, histology, microbiology and more.
Then in 3rd and 4th years we are basically like residents. For example I am going to a VA Hospital, a secondary and tertiary care private center and West Point Army Hospital for my 3 out rotations.

Even the entrance exam to Optometry school is the same as Dental school except no perceptual ability and we have an extra physics section.

Hope this clears up some confusion.


Yes, or we can hire MDs. Works either way in many states.
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So the reason I can say dental students take the same courses is because at many schools, med students and dental students sit side by side in these courses. Regardless, the idea of people prescribing (anything other than extremly short term) oral narcotics or oral steroids w/o experience managing general medical problems would bother me.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Don't feel bad, I'm pretty sure we never learned about touton giant cells in the first two years of medical school.
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...wtf? what are you people doing in Path? We learned them first in histo and then in Path. They show up in exams for every other block.
 
link2swim06 said:
Gross maybe. Net seems unlikely.

High wage earners can pay ~50% in taxes in Canada (when you combine their federal and state/provincial taxes).

Also isn't everything more expensive in Canada anyhow?
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Actually, docs in some provinces (Ontario for sure, maybe Alberta too) can incorporate as a small business, basically meaning that they pay only 13.5% taxes on income below 500k, and 28.5% for over 500k.
 
Brain Bucket said:
...wtf? what are you people doing in Path? We learned them first in histo and then in Path. They show up in exams for every other block.
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That's very oddly specific of your school to apparently brow beat you with something like this. Touton giant cells are extremely low yield (even for preclinical medical students). They don't even appear in my medical school's Histology text.
 
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