Ross Medical School vs. U.S. D.O.

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Santario69

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Hi all, I was wondering if you would help me decide on this tough choice in front of me. So I was accepted to Ross Med. school in Dominica starting this upcoming January 2010. Last year, I also applied to a few U.S. D.O. schools and have been admitted to a few as well, which start in August. Now just to let you know that I want to specialize in Internal Medicine. With that in mind, which option should I take considering quality of education, obtaining a Residency spot and so on? Please give your advice. Thank you all!
 
MD/PhD at ross? Didnt know they had that,

Use the search function. DO>>>>Ross
 
DO.

In the future, as competition for residency spots increase due to the increase in AMGs (American Medical Graduates), your best bet is go to school in the USA.

As a preference for residency, the rule of thumb seems to be:

US MD > US DO > IMG (US citizens abroad, Caribs included here) > FMG
 
That is kind of a tough decision to make; but I know some people would scream and yell to take the DO route over the caribbean but I don't see a great advantage for either choice. True, DO's do get placed in MD residencies AND they get their own special little residency programs to boot. Also, you would be US trained. There is a diminishing, yet still existent, stigma over the carib schools (although there is one also with the DO initials).

The pro's of going to Ross are that you get that M and D behind your name, and from what I understand there are many Ross Program Directors and fellow alumni in the US that do tend to look out for each other.

I think you have to decide if you want to be Mr. XXX, D.O. or Mr. XXX, M.D.
 
icalz said:
That is kind of a tough decision to make; but I know some people would scream and yell to take the DO route over the caribbean but I don't see a great advantage for either choice. True, DO's do get placed in MD residencies AND they get their own special little residency programs to boot. Also, you would be US trained. There is a diminishing, yet still existent, stigma over the carib schools (although there is one also with the DO initials).

The pro's of going to Ross are that you get that M and D behind your name, and from what I understand there are many Ross Program Directors and fellow alumni in the US that do tend to look out for each other.

I think you have to decide if you want to be Mr. XXX, D.O. or Mr. XXX, M.D.
Click to expand...

I would also add that you have to answer the letters behind the name too.

If you are not happy with DO after your name, then dont do it. Go to Ross and take your chances. IM is not that competitive and you should probably be fine since it will still be some time before all the IMG spots are gone.

DO and US MD schools have not made up the spots yet......
 
There are a few less than reputable DO schools in the US. A couple want all the tuition up front, and want several thousand dollar deposits to hold the student's place. I would decide depending on the DO schools you have chosen, like between TCOM and Ross, I would chose TCOM hands down....but that's just me.
 
DO school would help you get a more competative residency should you decide to change your mind later. Plus, even if you go to IM, it would be easier to get into a 'better' program w/ DO than IMG. I know there is a stigma against DO, but at least you can be a DO and get the specialty you want, as opposed to MD and have a narrow choice of specialties.
 
Go DO

1) As a DO you will be trained in a US Medical School.
2) DO students do better on USMLEs on average than Ross, UAC, SGU, etc.
3) As a DO you will have better selection of residency programs. You think you want to do IM, but once you start 3rd/4th year anything can change and what if you want to do something different? Here is where also the DO has the advantage.
4) DO programs are increasing around the nation and year by year more DOs are practicing medicine.
5) In reality, what percentage of your total patient population is really going to ask you what a DO is? Honestly, I think the amount is minimum.

Lets say you as a Trauma Surgeon, EM, Hospitalist, a pt comes in, will he say, "No, he is a DO and I dont want to be treated?" Most of the times they refer to DOs and MDs as, Dr. XXX or jimmy, the physician instead of, "This is Mikey, a DO, or this is Ashley, an MD"

Another thing that is changing now is that many MD programs are now adding OMM training as electives, something that before was unheard of, so this pretty much tells you how DO and MD in a slowly way are binding together into just "physicians, medical school graduates" rather than the MD is much better than the DO.

But again, as everyone has said, its your call. We are just telling you are opinion and in this case, what I would do.

Good Luck,

Eddie
 
icalz said:
That is kind of a tough decision to make; but I know some people would scream and yell to take the DO route over the caribbean but I don't see a great advantage for either choice. True, DO's do get placed in MD residencies AND they get their own special little residency programs to boot. Also, you would be US trained. There is a diminishing, yet still existent, stigma over the carib schools (although there is one also with the DO initials).

The pro's of going to Ross are that you get that M and D behind your name, and from what I understand there are many Ross Program Directors and fellow alumni in the US that do tend to look out for each other.
I think you have to decide if you want to be Mr. XXX, D.O. or Mr. XXX, M.D.
Click to expand...


No, OP, you have to decide what kind of education opportunities you want. The letters matter much less than you think.

Plus, DO alum network>>>>>Ross alum network.
 
Just DO it!

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to come up with this.
 
DoktorB said:
No, OP, you have to decide what kind of education opportunities you want. The letters matter much less than you think.

Plus, DO alum network>>>>>Ross alum network.
Click to expand...

Well I can state that for myself I am unwavering in my back up plans to go to SGU or Ross in the event I don't get into a US school on my first attempt. I had looked into the DO stuff ALOT before I had made this decision and will, without compunction, go sraight to the caribbean if needs be.

As for the education stuff....you get out what you put in. You can get an excellent education at sgu/ross; you can get a crappy education at harvard....It all depends on how much exertion you are willing to put into it.

Seeing the fact that Ross has filled more US residency positions than any other medical school in the world I do find it hard to believe that the DO network is greater than the caribbean network....not that I would rely on any network of any kind. I will rely on my own work...usmle, gpa, etc...
 
icalz said:
As for the education stuff....you get out what you put in. You can get an excellent education at sgu/ross; you can get a crappy education at harvard....It all depends on how much exertion you are willing to put into it.
Click to expand...

This is not the issue being discussed here, the issue is where one will have more opportunities post medschool. Its a fact that if two students with same USMLE scores and GPA apply to a competitive residency, and one is a DO and one an IMG, they will take the DO because of the US Education.

You are right that you get out what you put in, but the sad reality is that SGU and Ross have a higher Drop/turn around rate than any other MD or DO school. I think this is telling you something?

Also, its obvious that a DO institution will provide the student with more resources (tutoring, exam and boards preparation) than Ross or SGU. I am telling you this because some friends have gone to the Caribbean and DO.


Seeing the fact that Ross has filled more US residency positions than any other medical school in the world I do find it hard to believe that the DO network is greater than the caribbean network....not that I would rely on any network of any kind. I will rely on my own work...usmle, gpa, etc...
Click to expand...

How can Ross have a greater network when its a single institution compared to DOs who have several medical schools?

-Your work, usmle and gpa will depend on you, but will be assisted much by the resources and style of teaching/preparation your school has to offer.
 
icalz said:
Well I can state that for myself I am unwavering in my back up plans to go to SGU or Ross in the event I don't get into a US school on my first attempt. I had looked into the DO stuff ALOT before I had made this decision and will, without compunction, go sraight to the caribbean if needs be.
Click to expand...

More power to you 👍

icalz said:
you can get a crappy education at harvard....
Click to expand...

🙄

Anyone can be a crappy student, lol. That is a very poor way of getting your point across.

You have to surround yourself with elements that will foster a good environment for learning. A lot of which, I personally believe, cannot be found at a place like Ross. But that's my personal thought on the matter, which is not intended to strike a flame in here..
 
Last edited:
GO DO!!!! (pun intended)

Yeah dude you should definitley go DO. Getting and MD is great, but in the Carribean it is not as good as a DO in the states. Also, DO's are usually primary care,internists,family med's. so you are spot on in this choice. 🙂

Congratz on your acceptance and good luck!
 
MexicanDr said:
Its a fact that if two students with same USMLE scores and GPA apply to a competitive residency, and one is a DO and one an IMG, they will take the DO because of the US Education.
Click to expand...

careful...this is not really true. They would more than likely be looked at equally on those accounts. It depends on a lot of other factors (letters of rec, clinical rotation performance, etc..). IMG's do match into good programs from time to time 😉


another very important thing to remember: there are no certainties in entrance to medical school or residency programs
 
MexicanDr said:
Its a fact that if two students with same USMLE scores and GPA apply to a competitive residency, and one is a DO and one an IMG, they will take the DO because of the US Education.
Click to expand...

I think you would be very hard pressed to prove this "fact." Especially due to the significant differences in the curricula of MD schools and DO schools.

I can only speak of what I've read on these forums. I don't have any friends who are DO's and I don't have any friends who have gone to a carib school, but the threads are loaded with the debate about which is better. And of course the carib students will say that it's better to go the carib route than the DO route, and the DO students say to take the DO route. They both say that their route will give you better/more opportunities.

The reason Ross/Sgu has such a high attrition rate is because they are overtly a for-profit school and so they accept as many people as they possibly can, even many who cannot handle the rigors of the program and therefore many drop out....those people certainly should never have been accepted, but that's how they make money; and consider this, they would go out of business if they produce doctors. Of course they are going to do everything they can get you to pass your boards and get you placed into a residency.

Like I said, I'm resolved (and comfortable) in my back up plan to head south in case my plan A goes south....and I apologize if I'm way off of the original topic 🙄
 
DoktorB said:
careful...this is not really true. They would more than likely be looked at equally on those accounts. It depends on a lot of other factors (letters of rec, clinical rotation performance, etc..). IMG's do match into good programs from time to time 😉


another very important thing to remember: there are no certainties in entrance to medical school or residency programs
Click to expand...

You beat me to the punch (to the post, actually) :meanie: I agree 100%
 
icalz said:
Like I said, I'm resolved (and comfortable) in my back up plan to head south in case my plan A goes south....and I apologize if I'm way off of the original topic 🙄
Click to expand...

And believe me that I wish you nothing but the BEST! I agree that IMG and DO students always give biased responses, but I am neither or any of the ones here in this thread. Again, you make the final decision and I am sure whatever you chose will work out.
 
icalz said:
I think you would be very hard pressed to prove this "fact." Especially due to the significant differences in the curricula of MD schools and DO schools.

I can only speak of what I've read on these forums. I don't have any friends who are DO's and I don't have any friends who have gone to a carib school, but the threads are loaded with the debate about which is better. And of course the carib students will say that it's better to go the carib route than the DO route, and the DO students say to take the DO route. They both say that their route will give you better/more opportunities.

The reason Ross/Sgu has such a high attrition rate is because they are overtly a for-profit school and so they accept as many people as they possibly can, even many who cannot handle the rigors of the program and therefore many drop out....those people certainly should never have been accepted, but that's how they make money; and consider this, they would go out of business if they produce doctors. Of course they are going to do everything they can get you to pass your boards and get you placed into a residency.

Like I said, I'm resolved (and comfortable) in my back up plan to head south in case my plan A goes south....and I apologize if I'm way off of the original topic 🙄
Click to expand...
lolwut
 
icalz said:
Especially due to the significant differences in the curricula of MD schools and DO schools.
Click to expand...

I am really curious what are those SIGNIFICANT differences, please shed some light on this...
 
Are you planning on working in any other country? Are you ever planning on moving abroad? If you go DO, you will shut yourself out of opportunities and are basically forced to live in the US. And to those of you who say 'blah blah you have practice rights blah blah', in most countries you dont ... and even in the UK where a DO has full practice rights, I can guarantee you, as someone who worked there, you will be highly stigmatized against and have difficulty finding a reputable job.

If you plan on living in the US and NEVER seeing yourself living elsewhere, than a DO is fine. And to those of you who say the DO stigma is decreasing, it's not. I shadowed a DO who blatantly told me this and that people turn down jobs from her using other areas of her app as an excuse (because its illegal to discriminate). She is an oncologist and told me outright that the only reason she was able to become one with a DO degree is because she was lucky.

Do you want to deal with that? Ask yourself honestly.
 
"Because the number of open places for medical students in the U.S. has stayed almost exactly the same for the last 30 years, the admissions process is extremely competitive. In effect, your ability to get into a U.S. medical school is one thing. Your ability to be a good doctor is something else."

Awkwardly worded. And that's coming from the king of awkward wording.
 
I think everyone kind of missed the OP's question. I believe he was wondering if going to a DO school in August of 2010 (like, next fall, 10 months) or starting MD school in the Carib in two months had a significant grounds for reconsideration.

This is a tough one, and I agree that its nice to have admissions in 3 rolling dates at Carib schools - while MD/DO schools start up in August each year. If you are not waiting on any other potential acceptances, or MD schools this cycle, you may as well just head to the Carib school and get this started.

I think the theme among every doctor, resident, fellow has been to get the ball rolling, start and get into the process. Everyone can linger around for years doing their MCAT, EC's and applications but it wont matter in the long run. If you had to go Carib, thats the dregs but a ton of people have.

I also am completely mind boggled at the opinion - 'US trained' when considering the DO schools. I believe all students at Ross/SGU complete 18 months of basic sciences and pack themselves up for a two year set of rotations in affiliated hospitals in the USA. I have no idea where this myth perpetuated that Carib equals foreign trained doctors. No. Just no, wrong, ignorant.

These students are training alongside MD and DO 3rd/4th year students in the US of A. They also attend residencies alongside them, and live, breathe and practice alongside one another. 1/3 or more of doctors in the US are foreign trained, which isnt even a bad thing, but don't blow this out of the water and say going to a Carib school means they are training in the sticks.
 
GirlAnachronism said:
Are you planning on working in any other country? Are you ever planning on moving abroad? If you go DO, you will shut yourself out of opportunities and are basically forced to live in the US. And to those of you who say 'blah blah you have practice rights blah blah', in most countries you dont ... and even in the UK where a DO has full practice rights, I can guarantee you, as someone who worked there, you will be highly stigmatized against and have difficulty finding a reputable job.

If you plan on living in the US and NEVER seeing yourself living elsewhere, than a DO is fine. And to those of you who say the DO stigma is decreasing, it's not. I shadowed a DO who blatantly told me this and that people turn down jobs from her using other areas of her app as an excuse (because its illegal to discriminate). She is an oncologist and told me outright that the only reason she was able to become one with a DO degree is because she was lucky.

Do you want to deal with that? Ask yourself honestly.
Click to expand...

N=1

Wow, come on now. "Office politics" can play a large role even among physicians and their practices so one DO telling you she had trouble finding a job does not mean that there is still significant discrimination out their in the real world..... For all you know she may have previously burned bridges with local groups an they just don't like her or any number of other reasons.
 
GirlAnachronism said:
Are you planning on working in any other country? Are you ever planning on moving abroad? If you go DO, you will shut yourself out of opportunities and are basically forced to live in the US. And to those of you who say 'blah blah you have practice rights blah blah', in most countries you dont ... and even in the UK where a DO has full practice rights, I can guarantee you, as someone who worked there, you will be highly stigmatized against and have difficulty finding a reputable job.

If you plan on living in the US and NEVER seeing yourself living elsewhere, than a DO is fine. And to those of you who say the DO stigma is decreasing, it's not. I shadowed a DO who blatantly told me this and that people turn down jobs from her using other areas of her app as an excuse (because its illegal to discriminate). She is an oncologist and told me outright that the only reason she was able to become one with a DO degree is because she was lucky.

Do you want to deal with that? Ask yourself honestly.
Click to expand...

:laugh: I love premeds
 
rama kandra said:
I think everyone kind of missed the OP's question. I believe he was wondering if going to a DO school in August of 2010 (like, next fall, 10 months) or starting MD school in the Carib in two months had a significant grounds for reconsideration.

This is a tough one, and I agree that its nice to have admissions in three rolling dates at carib schools - while most MD/DO schools start up in August each year. If you are not waiting on any other potential acceptances, or MD schools this cycle, you may as well just head to the Carib school and get this started.

I think the theme among every doctor, resident, fellow has been to get the ball rolling, start and get into the process. Everyone can linger around for years doing their MCAT, EC's and applications but it wont matter in the long run. If you had to go Carib, thats the dregs but a ton of people have and they need to know their own capabilities.

I also am completely mind boggled at the opinion - 'US trained' when considering the DO schools. I believe all students at Ross/SGU complete 18 months of basic sciences and pack themselves up for a two year set of rotations in affiliated hospitals in the USA. I have no idea where this myth perpetuated that Carib equals foreign trained doctors. No. Just no, wrong, ignorant.

These students are training alongside MD and DO 3rd/4th year students in the US of A. They also attend residencies alongside them, and live, breathe and practice alongside one another. 1/3 or more of doctors in the US are foreign trained, which isnt even a bad thing, but don't blow this out of the water and say going to a Carib school means they are training in the sticks.
Click to expand...
lolwut
 
MD programs are now adding OMM training as electives. OMM is osteopathic manipulative medicine. Also, the stigma is going down against D.O. The A.M.A. did a great job at suppressing the pro's of a D.O. But, a lot of people like D.O. and their way of practicing medicine. Also, you can go to an M.D. residency and you can actually leave that residency with an M.D. even if you went to a D.O. school for medical school.
 
1. I don't consider someones medical school to be where they did their training. I would look to residency and fellowship for that.

2. If we want to talk training, focus on years 3/4 which is done in the USA. It is not different for US MD and DO students. They are all training at the same hospitals and rotations.

-- if Carib students are in years 3/4 in those same rotations they are not receiving less quality training.
 
Also as a New Yorker, I personally know of doctors from SGU who are staff at Cornell Medical Center. Those biases just dont reconcile the outcome. I was pretty anti-Carib but am willing to go there instead of doing an SMP or spending another year in a cycle.
 
rama kandra said:
Also as a New Yorker, I personally know of doctors from SGU who are staff at Cornell Medical Center. Those biases just dont reconcile the outcome. I was pretty anti-Carib but am willing to go there instead of doing an SMP or spending another year in a cycle.
Click to expand...
OK man, you just know more than everyone. congrats.
 
I'm adding to the discussion. It is anecdotal evidence but if it helps the OP, I'm glad to share it.
 
rama kandra said:
Also as a New Yorker, I personally know of doctors from SGU who are staff at Cornell Medical Center. Those biases just dont reconcile the outcome. I was pretty anti-Carib but am willing to go there instead of doing an SMP or spending another year in a cycle.
Click to expand...

You should be the President of the Association of Caribbean Medical Schools------> The non-IMG schools. Caribbean Schools, the arms and legs of the USA Medical Education System
 
Actually I do hope to someday be involved in creating something of an organization for representing the interests of physicians. The AMA is currently a poor one. I'm interested in politics and healthcare and wouldn't mind it.
 
DRMRL said:
MD programs are now adding OMM training as electives. OMM is osteopathic manipulative medicine. Also, the stigma is going down against D.O. The A.M.A. did a great job at suppressing the pro's of a D.O. But, a lot of people like D.O. and their way of practicing medicine. Also, you can go to an M.D. residency and you can actually leave that residency with an M.D. even if you went to a D.O. school for medical school.
Click to expand...

How in the hell does a person go from D.O. to M.D.?
 
From what I know:

DO students have access to US MD residencies if they apply to them. They also have their own DO residencies, and can have both options. I have not heard of going to a MD residency and obtaining a MD degree... since your school is the one that awards the degree before you even attend a residency.

Anyone know if that is true?
 
rama kandra said:
From what I know:

DO students have access to US MD residencies if they apply to them. They also have their own DO residencies, and can have both options. I have not heard of going to a MD residency and obtaining a MD degree... since your school is the one that awards the degree before you even attend a residency.

Anyone know if that is true?
Click to expand...

If have herd before that a D.O. can become an M.D. but I forgot how...
 
I'm willing to bet that nobody reads your degrees on your wall. They just want to know that youve got something framed nicely...

I doubt a residency will award a different degree, but it just becomes the norm after a while to refer to yourself as a MD... I'm sure it really isnt a big deal.
 
rama kandra said:
I'm willing to bet that nobody reads your degrees on your wall. They just want to know that youve got something framed nicely...

I doubt a residency will award a different degree, but it just becomes the norm after a while to refer to yourself as a MD... I'm sure it really isnt a big deal.
Click to expand...
you can't refer yourself as an MD as a DO just the same way you can't say you're a DO if you're MD
 
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