Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Dont let them get you either, you make me laugh and your threads are hilarious!!~~
Nice meeting you too 😛
Ross Medical School vs. U.S. D.O.
Started by Santario69
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
Dont let them get you either, you make me laugh and your threads are hilarious!!~~
Nice meeting you too 😛
i would choose ross over DO because ross grants MD after you graduate.
lol sdn pimpin'. your philandering knows no bounds.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Did I mention I'm a serious actor?
Not true
No.
Right
To the OP, which is cheaper? And if you choose DO, what are you going to do for the next couple of months? Either way, do something fun, and relax the first couple of weeks before med school 🙂 And congrats on the acceptances !
I go to TCOM (adding another corny DO line: "The best D.O.cters around!"), and I know that I feel like I am getting an awesome education, as maybe some friends I have down in the Carib. But I am closer to home and don't feel so separated. Research the schools a bit more, and go with the gut feeling.
You better apply DO really soon. It's getting more and more competitive once people find out that MD really isn't all that much superior since DO and MD are virtually the same thing. Of course, there are a few differences. But, when it comes down to it, you basically do your residency and internships with the same student graduating with an MD. Not to mention, you get the same salary and everything.
Ok, so here's the way I'd look at it (I just had to give this advice to a family member, so hopefully this makes sense...)
1) Residencies = The jury's still out on which of the two options opens/closes more doors, and ultimately someone comes up with the argument of "well if you have a 260 on the Step I you'll be just dandy" which is hilarious cause sure, it's just that easy! Anyway, it's true that DOs can get into an MD residency OR a DO residency, but they do have to take both the USMLE and their version (I forget what it's called...) in order to have both options, and apparently it's not as simple a process as SDNers make it out to be. On the other hand, as people have mentioned, residency spots in the US are staying the same but med schools are reproducing like bunnies, and the main effect seems to be to kick out the IMG's. Unfortunately, if you think about it, it makes sense: residencies will first pick people who go to med schools under the big AAMC umbrella because they're all pretty standardized, and then the DO schools that are standardized according to their own rules, and then they'll pick people whose training they had no control over.
Oh by the way, as far as reputation and stigma are concerned, I consider them to be about equal for both options, although it's more geographically dependent. There are some locations in which there are no DO schools and people don't know what DOs are, and there are some locations in which people are very "smart shoppers" and will straight up ask you where you went to med school (and wont trust you after you mention a school in the islands). It totally depends. I've never worked with a doctor from the islands, but I have seen two DOs at 2 separate academic centers I worked in. One of them was a resident, and the other was an attending. I do have to mention though that the attending (this was at Stanford, by the way) was trying to get a tenure-track position elsewhere (UCSF) because the Stanford position was only for 2 years and was basically dead-end. When she met with our director, he told her that the UCSF people were probably not going to take her because of her "alternative training" which pissed her off to no end. Of course, as I said, there were no island doctors there either, fwiw.
2) Clinicals = DOs definitely have it here. Yes, IMGs can do clinicals in the US, but first of all, I've heard Ross has major issues trying to place their gagillion students into third and fourth year clinicals which can often result in extremely sub-par experiences. As for other schools, including SGU, things are still pretty complicated. At US-MD schools (and I'm guessing DO schools as well), we're trained at a very limited number of university-run hospitals and maybe a corollary or two, the idea being that we're going to be under the purview and umbrella of our own home institution. Again, this means tight control over our training. From my point of view as a med student, this is something I very much want in my education because I won't feel like I'm constantly being thrown to the wind, changing hospitals and policies and people every month or so. You get stuck with teachers who don't want to teach because- hey- they're not working at a university! Not to mention the fact that the hospitals they usually send you to tend to be the poorer, more crowded ones where you really don't get a whole lot of attention. You want attention as a third year. You want to be actively taught things. And you want residency directors to know where you've trained and trust that you learned what you were supposed to learn.
3) Lifestyle and location = from what I hear, the islands where these schools are located are pretty rustic. We're talking super-expensive bottled water, cockroaches the size of dessert plates, and only one kind of tampon at the convenience store. Sure, that's not exactly living in the woods, but if you're used to all the lovely conveniences of a massively stocked grocery store 5 minutes away and 20 different types of restaurants in your area, it can be kind of a painful adjustment. I could probably rough it for a while, but with the stress of med school, I feel like not being able to find Half Baked cause it didn't come in with the latest shipment, or having an iguana in my bathtub might just drive me over the edge. Not to mention issues with internet connections, cell phones, possibly unfriendly locals who think you're just some rich spoiled kids, and the fact that your loved ones have to get onto 3 different flights that only fly on certain days in order to come visit. Med school is tough as it is. I can't imagine having those logistical issues to add to this mess.
4) Support = this would probably be the main reason why I'd personally pick DO. Med schools here have a vested interest in making damn sure you graduate. That usually means lots and lots of support. They want to maintain high graduation rates and get lots of people into residencies. That also leads to GENERALLY not horrendously competitive student bodies, cause it really does you no good to try to screw over everyone else- it wouldn't really help you anyway. In the islands, the situation is different because they accept way more people than deserve to have a medical education. Some people there have no idea what they're in for and don't know how to study and can't take tests. It is in the school's best interest to take their money and then weed them out so the people who graduate from there are only the very best, since those are the people that might manage to get a residency- this keeps their match percentages artificially high so when we're looking at their website, we get to be like "oh look, they matched 88% of their graduating class!" (well yeah, but that's really like 40% of their entering class). They really don't have too much of a motivation to keep you there. You don't get to retake whole classes and whole semesters and whole years while taking "research time" the way you do here. It's sink or swim. And unfortunately, that leads to some brutal, BRUTAL competition as everyone tries to take those coveted graduation seats. Again, med school is hard enough. I can't imagine trying to live through that as well.
So yeah, I'd think long and hard about your decision. One thing most people don't mention (probably cause it's awkward) is that you're in this mess for a reason. I'm not judging, I could very easily have been in an equal mess last year. But the point is, chances are some part of your application was weak- be it your grades, your MCAT, or more likely a combination of the above. Either way, while I'm sure you've turned a new leaf and are willing to put in the work, you can't assume that you'll suddenly turn into a stellar student with a 4.0 gpa and that your lower MCAT will become a 260 on step 1. You may have crappy study habits, or be a crappy test-taker. Considering all these things, you want to take the road that will give you the most support and the least amount of stress so you CAN change this stuff around. Hell, an SMP would be a good idea, since you'd get to see the med school workload without actually having it "count". I wouldn't pick an option cause it's the quickest or easiest, cause there's nothing quick or easy about our education. I think you have to be very honest with yourself about all the stuff I mentioned and figure out what works best for you.
1) Residencies = The jury's still out on which of the two options opens/closes more doors, and ultimately someone comes up with the argument of "well if you have a 260 on the Step I you'll be just dandy" which is hilarious cause sure, it's just that easy! Anyway, it's true that DOs can get into an MD residency OR a DO residency, but they do have to take both the USMLE and their version (I forget what it's called...) in order to have both options, and apparently it's not as simple a process as SDNers make it out to be. On the other hand, as people have mentioned, residency spots in the US are staying the same but med schools are reproducing like bunnies, and the main effect seems to be to kick out the IMG's. Unfortunately, if you think about it, it makes sense: residencies will first pick people who go to med schools under the big AAMC umbrella because they're all pretty standardized, and then the DO schools that are standardized according to their own rules, and then they'll pick people whose training they had no control over.
Oh by the way, as far as reputation and stigma are concerned, I consider them to be about equal for both options, although it's more geographically dependent. There are some locations in which there are no DO schools and people don't know what DOs are, and there are some locations in which people are very "smart shoppers" and will straight up ask you where you went to med school (and wont trust you after you mention a school in the islands). It totally depends. I've never worked with a doctor from the islands, but I have seen two DOs at 2 separate academic centers I worked in. One of them was a resident, and the other was an attending. I do have to mention though that the attending (this was at Stanford, by the way) was trying to get a tenure-track position elsewhere (UCSF) because the Stanford position was only for 2 years and was basically dead-end. When she met with our director, he told her that the UCSF people were probably not going to take her because of her "alternative training" which pissed her off to no end. Of course, as I said, there were no island doctors there either, fwiw.
2) Clinicals = DOs definitely have it here. Yes, IMGs can do clinicals in the US, but first of all, I've heard Ross has major issues trying to place their gagillion students into third and fourth year clinicals which can often result in extremely sub-par experiences. As for other schools, including SGU, things are still pretty complicated. At US-MD schools (and I'm guessing DO schools as well), we're trained at a very limited number of university-run hospitals and maybe a corollary or two, the idea being that we're going to be under the purview and umbrella of our own home institution. Again, this means tight control over our training. From my point of view as a med student, this is something I very much want in my education because I won't feel like I'm constantly being thrown to the wind, changing hospitals and policies and people every month or so. You get stuck with teachers who don't want to teach because- hey- they're not working at a university! Not to mention the fact that the hospitals they usually send you to tend to be the poorer, more crowded ones where you really don't get a whole lot of attention. You want attention as a third year. You want to be actively taught things. And you want residency directors to know where you've trained and trust that you learned what you were supposed to learn.
3) Lifestyle and location = from what I hear, the islands where these schools are located are pretty rustic. We're talking super-expensive bottled water, cockroaches the size of dessert plates, and only one kind of tampon at the convenience store. Sure, that's not exactly living in the woods, but if you're used to all the lovely conveniences of a massively stocked grocery store 5 minutes away and 20 different types of restaurants in your area, it can be kind of a painful adjustment. I could probably rough it for a while, but with the stress of med school, I feel like not being able to find Half Baked cause it didn't come in with the latest shipment, or having an iguana in my bathtub might just drive me over the edge. Not to mention issues with internet connections, cell phones, possibly unfriendly locals who think you're just some rich spoiled kids, and the fact that your loved ones have to get onto 3 different flights that only fly on certain days in order to come visit. Med school is tough as it is. I can't imagine having those logistical issues to add to this mess.
4) Support = this would probably be the main reason why I'd personally pick DO. Med schools here have a vested interest in making damn sure you graduate. That usually means lots and lots of support. They want to maintain high graduation rates and get lots of people into residencies. That also leads to GENERALLY not horrendously competitive student bodies, cause it really does you no good to try to screw over everyone else- it wouldn't really help you anyway. In the islands, the situation is different because they accept way more people than deserve to have a medical education. Some people there have no idea what they're in for and don't know how to study and can't take tests. It is in the school's best interest to take their money and then weed them out so the people who graduate from there are only the very best, since those are the people that might manage to get a residency- this keeps their match percentages artificially high so when we're looking at their website, we get to be like "oh look, they matched 88% of their graduating class!" (well yeah, but that's really like 40% of their entering class). They really don't have too much of a motivation to keep you there. You don't get to retake whole classes and whole semesters and whole years while taking "research time" the way you do here. It's sink or swim. And unfortunately, that leads to some brutal, BRUTAL competition as everyone tries to take those coveted graduation seats. Again, med school is hard enough. I can't imagine trying to live through that as well.
So yeah, I'd think long and hard about your decision. One thing most people don't mention (probably cause it's awkward) is that you're in this mess for a reason. I'm not judging, I could very easily have been in an equal mess last year. But the point is, chances are some part of your application was weak- be it your grades, your MCAT, or more likely a combination of the above. Either way, while I'm sure you've turned a new leaf and are willing to put in the work, you can't assume that you'll suddenly turn into a stellar student with a 4.0 gpa and that your lower MCAT will become a 260 on step 1. You may have crappy study habits, or be a crappy test-taker. Considering all these things, you want to take the road that will give you the most support and the least amount of stress so you CAN change this stuff around. Hell, an SMP would be a good idea, since you'd get to see the med school workload without actually having it "count". I wouldn't pick an option cause it's the quickest or easiest, cause there's nothing quick or easy about our education. I think you have to be very honest with yourself about all the stuff I mentioned and figure out what works best for you.
This iguana in the bath tub comment just basically wiped my mind with paralyzing fear - but great post, haha.
You really don't know? Have you never researched this? Haven't you ever wondered why DO and MD schools are two separate institutions and one has more lenient admissions requirements? Has no one ever spoken to of the more holisitic approach that a DO school teaches?
If you don't know then how can you form such a strong opinion?
My grandparents live in South America, and this actually has happened to me. I remember stepping into the tub and feeling like someone was looking at me (not a good feeling when you're naked) and then looking down and seeing a huge dinosaur-looking creature staring at me with these big round eyes. They're really rather harmless, but definitely not the most pleasant thing to see in a tub.
you need to refer to avatar.
LET, that is a fantastic post. 👍
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I'm shocked, stunned, and a little disoriented...I have never heard anyone say that before 😉
Haha nice use of dinosaur in a post on SDN. I'm pretty sure I am retaking the MCAT for the third time and applying to both US and Carib schools, but I would risk the iguana fear and go to SGU or Ross if that was my only option.
Barring my performance, or having to accept that I wont be going into a competitive residency, I'll survive. I would not be happy about the first two years, but I will be happy knowing I was doing the right thing to get started with med school. I've got plenty of friends in SMPs, and they all have their reasons and desires. To each his own, I say.
And a year ago, I would scoff at Carib schools, and would not open my eyes to what is a decent place to attend basic science(s) years.
Best of luck to everyone who applies to medical school who wants it. Stack your bets, the game is much longer and this one round is just a small part of it. Perspective is everything.
Barring my performance, or having to accept that I wont be going into a competitive residency, I'll survive. I would not be happy about the first two years, but I will be happy knowing I was doing the right thing to get started with med school. I've got plenty of friends in SMPs, and they all have their reasons and desires. To each his own, I say.
And a year ago, I would scoff at Carib schools, and would not open my eyes to what is a decent place to attend basic science(s) years.
Best of luck to everyone who applies to medical school who wants it. Stack your bets, the game is much longer and this one round is just a small part of it. Perspective is everything.
Go with whatever initials you want behind your name, its a personal and psychological preference, your going to work hard regardless of the route you choose - don't be disgruntled about it after the fact. Personally, if your not particularly into the DO philosophy then go with the MD at Ross.
In regards to residency placement from Ross, who knows, you might have some additional hurdles - you might not. Either way, if you work hard, you'll get over these hurdles and get a residency in the US that your happy with.
I would look at it this way, if there is actually a stigma associated with both options (Carribean and DO), then the stigma w/ the Carribean schools will be a much shorter lived one - once your in residency nobody is going to care or even ask you about where you went to medical school - and you will have the MD initials behind your name. After residency all anybody is going to see is US trained MD. However, if you choose the DO route, the DO initials will tend to follow you throughout your career, whatever that means. If there are doctors that happen to have a stigma against it, then they might discriminate against you.
In regards to residency placement from Ross, who knows, you might have some additional hurdles - you might not. Either way, if you work hard, you'll get over these hurdles and get a residency in the US that your happy with.
I would look at it this way, if there is actually a stigma associated with both options (Carribean and DO), then the stigma w/ the Carribean schools will be a much shorter lived one - once your in residency nobody is going to care or even ask you about where you went to medical school - and you will have the MD initials behind your name. After residency all anybody is going to see is US trained MD. However, if you choose the DO route, the DO initials will tend to follow you throughout your career, whatever that means. If there are doctors that happen to have a stigma against it, then they might discriminate against you.
Wow, a DO vs. Carib MD thread. I've NEVER seen one of these before...
DO and MD degrees are equivalent. Period.
DO is a significantly better option than a Carib MD for the reasons stated by previous posters. However, a Ross MD is a decent backup option. California, the strictest state for licensing Carib grads, has determined that Ross, along with St. George's University, American University of the Caribbean, and SABA University, are substantially equivalent to US medical schools (see www.valuemd.com for more information).
DO and MD degrees are equivalent. Period.
DO is a significantly better option than a Carib MD for the reasons stated by previous posters. However, a Ross MD is a decent backup option. California, the strictest state for licensing Carib grads, has determined that Ross, along with St. George's University, American University of the Caribbean, and SABA University, are substantially equivalent to US medical schools (see www.valuemd.com for more information).
No, No, and No.
Ok, so here's the way I'd look at it (I just had to give this advice to a family member, so hopefully this makes sense...)
1) Residencies = The jury's still out on which of the two options opens/closes more doors, and ultimately someone comes up with the argument of "well if you have a 260 on the Step I you'll be just dandy" which is hilarious cause sure, it's just that easy! Anyway, it's true that DOs can get into an MD residency OR a DO residency, but they do have to take both the USMLE and their version (I forget what it's called...) in order to have both options, and apparently it's not as simple a process as SDNers make it out to be. On the other hand, as people have mentioned, residency spots in the US are staying the same but med schools are reproducing like bunnies, and the main effect seems to be to kick out the IMG's. Unfortunately, if you think about it, it makes sense: residencies will first pick people who go to med schools under the big AAMC umbrella because they're all pretty standardized, and then the DO schools that are standardized according to their own rules, and then they'll pick people whose training they had no control over.
Oh by the way, as far as reputation and stigma are concerned, I consider them to be about equal for both options, although it's more geographically dependent. There are some locations in which there are no DO schools and people don't know what DOs are, and there are some locations in which people are very "smart shoppers" and will straight up ask you where you went to med school (and wont trust you after you mention a school in the islands). It totally depends. I've never worked with a doctor from the islands, but I have seen two DOs at 2 separate academic centers I worked in. One of them was a resident, and the other was an attending. I do have to mention though that the attending (this was at Stanford, by the way) was trying to get a tenure-track position elsewhere (UCSF) because the Stanford position was only for 2 years and was basically dead-end. When she met with our director, he told her that the UCSF people were probably not going to take her because of her "alternative training" which pissed her off to no end. Of course, as I said, there were no island doctors there either, fwiw.
2) Clinicals = DOs definitely have it here. Yes, IMGs can do clinicals in the US, but first of all, I've heard Ross has major issues trying to place their gagillion students into third and fourth year clinicals which can often result in extremely sub-par experiences. As for other schools, including SGU, things are still pretty complicated. At US-MD schools (and I'm guessing DO schools as well), we're trained at a very limited number of university-run hospitals and maybe a corollary or two, the idea being that we're going to be under the purview and umbrella of our own home institution. Again, this means tight control over our training. From my point of view as a med student, this is something I very much want in my education because I won't feel like I'm constantly being thrown to the wind, changing hospitals and policies and people every month or so. You get stuck with teachers who don't want to teach because- hey- they're not working at a university! Not to mention the fact that the hospitals they usually send you to tend to be the poorer, more crowded ones where you really don't get a whole lot of attention. You want attention as a third year. You want to be actively taught things. And you want residency directors to know where you've trained and trust that you learned what you were supposed to learn.
3) Lifestyle and location = from what I hear, the islands where these schools are located are pretty rustic. We're talking super-expensive bottled water, cockroaches the size of dessert plates, and only one kind of tampon at the convenience store. Sure, that's not exactly living in the woods, but if you're used to all the lovely conveniences of a massively stocked grocery store 5 minutes away and 20 different types of restaurants in your area, it can be kind of a painful adjustment. I could probably rough it for a while, but with the stress of med school, I feel like not being able to find Half Baked cause it didn't come in with the latest shipment, or having an iguana in my bathtub might just drive me over the edge. Not to mention issues with internet connections, cell phones, possibly unfriendly locals who think you're just some rich spoiled kids, and the fact that your loved ones have to get onto 3 different flights that only fly on certain days in order to come visit. Med school is tough as it is. I can't imagine having those logistical issues to add to this mess.
4) Support = this would probably be the main reason why I'd personally pick DO. Med schools here have a vested interest in making damn sure you graduate. That usually means lots and lots of support. They want to maintain high graduation rates and get lots of people into residencies. That also leads to GENERALLY not horrendously competitive student bodies, cause it really does you no good to try to screw over everyone else- it wouldn't really help you anyway. In the islands, the situation is different because they accept way more people than deserve to have a medical education. Some people there have no idea what they're in for and don't know how to study and can't take tests. It is in the school's best interest to take their money and then weed them out so the people who graduate from there are only the very best, since those are the people that might manage to get a residency- this keeps their match percentages artificially high so when we're looking at their website, we get to be like "oh look, they matched 88% of their graduating class!" (well yeah, but that's really like 40% of their entering class). They really don't have too much of a motivation to keep you there. You don't get to retake whole classes and whole semesters and whole years while taking "research time" the way you do here. It's sink or swim. And unfortunately, that leads to some brutal, BRUTAL competition as everyone tries to take those coveted graduation seats. Again, med school is hard enough. I can't imagine trying to live through that as well.
So yeah, I'd think long and hard about your decision. One thing most people don't mention (probably cause it's awkward) is that you're in this mess for a reason. I'm not judging, I could very easily have been in an equal mess last year. But the point is, chances are some part of your application was weak- be it your grades, your MCAT, or more likely a combination of the above. Either way, while I'm sure you've turned a new leaf and are willing to put in the work, you can't assume that you'll suddenly turn into a stellar student with a 4.0 gpa and that your lower MCAT will become a 260 on step 1. You may have crappy study habits, or be a crappy test-taker. Considering all these things, you want to take the road that will give you the most support and the least amount of stress so you CAN change this stuff around. Hell, an SMP would be a good idea, since you'd get to see the med school workload without actually having it "count". I wouldn't pick an option cause it's the quickest or easiest, cause there's nothing quick or easy about our education. I think you have to be very honest with yourself about all the stuff I mentioned and figure out what works best for you.
Great Post 👍
2) Clinicals = DOs definitely have it here. Yes, IMGs can do clinicals in the US, but first of all, I've heard Ross has major issues trying to place their gagillion students into third and fourth year clinicals which can often result in extremely sub-par experiences. As for other schools, including SGU, things are still pretty complicated. At US-MD schools (and I'm guessing DO schools as well), we're trained at a very limited number of university-run hospitals and maybe a corollary or two, the idea being that we're going to be under the purview and umbrella of our own home institution. Again, this means tight control over our training. From my point of view as a med student, this is something I very much want in my education because I won't feel like I'm constantly being thrown to the wind, changing hospitals and policies and people every month or so. You get stuck with teachers who don't want to teach because- hey- they're not working at a university! Not to mention the fact that the hospitals they usually send you to tend to be the poorer, more crowded ones where you really don't get a whole lot of attention. You want attention as a third year. You want to be actively taught things. And you want residency directors to know where you've trained and trust that you learned what you were supposed to learn.
Nope. DO schools don't have university hospitals. They rotate at community hospitals in the area or even out-of-state. Since a lot of these doctors are not affiliated with the school (private doctors), the quality of the education can greatly vary. In most big cities, DOs and Carib students rotate side-by-side in the same community hospitals.
DOs don't have an edge in clinicial rotations.
I think that depends on what DO school we are talking about (TCOM tends to spoil people down here). DO's do have the "option" of doing both DO and MD residencies as well.
TCOM might be unique (don't know about the school) but it's not the representation of DO schools in general.
DOs have their residencies but again the quality varies since they're not regulated by the ACGME(MD regulators) but by their own boards. I think somewhere around 66% of DO graduates plan to pursue MD residencies.Of these graduates, the NRMP data puts their odds about the same as Carib graduates.
Last edited:
As someone who is going to a DO school the programs really do vary greatly. There are a lot of new DO programs popping up that I personally would never go to. But the reputable DO schools that have been around for forever (TCOM,PCOM,KCOM,CCOM,etc) offer excellent education. If you attend one of the better DO schools you really will not have any issues matching where you want to match if you have good stats...save for derm,radonc and the like. I personally got into both my DO school and an MD school in the states...but picked the DO program because I liked it more...and I thought the education would be better...and thats why I am in it anyway. For my future patients...not for some letters after my name. I really dont buy into the whole "DO stigma" etc. It exists in the minds of premeds, some douchebag MD students, and old head attendings. I really could care less....I have enough self confidence that if someone wants to give me hell for being a DO...then I wouldnt want to work for them/treat them anyway. End of story.
thats all you are thinking about?
there are also loans and finances to consider. look at the attrition rate of the schools you are comparing. look at how many people are allowed to take the Step 1s out of the people that start out and then see what percent match. all the information is available somewhere.
one should give you a higher probability of paying your 200-300k in loans back in the future. i would go with that one. letters behind your name wont feed your ****ing kids and stigma will, at most, limit how much food they will get. which is good, cuz obesity bad
It depends where you go to school. If you got to MSU, you will train in their University Hospital as a DO.
At PCOM we rotate through Einstein, Geisinger of Danville, LVH, Pennsylvania Hospital (of UPenn), St. Barnabas, UMDNJ, Virtua, etc.
They aren't all University affiliated, but they have respected reputations in our area.
.
Last edited:
.
Last edited:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I'm going to throw out a few general points here, just to clear the air (fairly), although I am disappointed in myself for propagating this thread:
1. DOs are not better in clinical years than MDs. That's silly, and makes DOs sound insecure. Maybe OMM allows for earlier clinical contact, maybe it tends to increase palpating skills, but this is fairly irrelevant. Both are trained well in years 1/2 and move nicely into year 3/4.
2. Not all DOs have to rotate through little clinics or small community hospitals and NOT all MD schools are attached to University hospitals. I've heard posters on this board say that EVMS students are shipped around for years 3/4 and a poster say that his classmates at FSU rotated with students from DO schools in FL. Again, generalizations and misconceptions. On the other hand, look at a school like Midwestern University (Chicago), and try to say those clinicals aren't good. Like, really good.
3. DOs, if they choose, can take the USMLE, complete an ACGME residency, become BC in an ABMS field, put Dr. Joe Smith instead of Joe Smith, D.O., and be identical to any other doc out there. DOs also match quite well into even competitive ACGME fields and there are an increasing number of programs that are going dual AOA/AGCME.
Those are just things I picked up skimming the thread. As far as the original question ... you're insane if you pick Ross over a DO school.
1. DOs are not better in clinical years than MDs. That's silly, and makes DOs sound insecure. Maybe OMM allows for earlier clinical contact, maybe it tends to increase palpating skills, but this is fairly irrelevant. Both are trained well in years 1/2 and move nicely into year 3/4.
2. Not all DOs have to rotate through little clinics or small community hospitals and NOT all MD schools are attached to University hospitals. I've heard posters on this board say that EVMS students are shipped around for years 3/4 and a poster say that his classmates at FSU rotated with students from DO schools in FL. Again, generalizations and misconceptions. On the other hand, look at a school like Midwestern University (Chicago), and try to say those clinicals aren't good. Like, really good.
3. DOs, if they choose, can take the USMLE, complete an ACGME residency, become BC in an ABMS field, put Dr. Joe Smith instead of Joe Smith, D.O., and be identical to any other doc out there. DOs also match quite well into even competitive ACGME fields and there are an increasing number of programs that are going dual AOA/AGCME.
Those are just things I picked up skimming the thread. As far as the original question ... you're insane if you pick Ross over a DO school.
READ THIS POST
This is a good post to refer to.
Edit: Great, not good.
The 48% are US students are foreign institutions.
That's impressive... I'll just address a few points (some of this is from the post I linked above):
A trend in the match at the moment (which will only get worse as Allopathic class sizes increase) is the number of foreign (carib) and DO grads that are not matching into MD residencies.
This year 93% of US MD grads matched.
70% of US DO grads that applied for the MD Match matched.
48% of Students from Carib or other Foreign Schools matched.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf
USMD 93.1% (-)1.1% from last year
USDO 69.9% (-)1.7% from last year
USIMG 47.8% (-)4.1% from last year
As noted above, DO students have the option to match into their own match. This means that if the MD match eventually becomes prohibitively competitive for US DOs, they will still have an alternative, while foreign MDs will not have any fallback.
Another issue is that DO schools tend to have attrition rates on par with MD schools, roughly 95% of the entering class will graduate. Carib schools will start with a very large class that gets much smaller throughout the first two years. You must pass their qualifying exam in order to take the USMLE, then you must pass the USMLE to move on to clerkships. There are a lot of points where you can be pruned out along the way. Once you do get to clerkships, a lot of the legwork is left to you. The school may have some hospitals that have agreed to accept their students, but it is up to you to work out the nitty-gritty details of when you get to rotate through.
Finally, there's the subjective issue of accreditation. US Allo schools are accredited by LCME and US DO schools are accredited by the AACOM. Foreign medical schools may carry some accreditation by the WHO, but this is not as standardized as the LCME and AACOM accreditation. Part of the issue with residency match is that the USMLE is just a single gauge of one's training. It doesn't include the standardization of the curriculum that the LCME or AACOM accreditation assures. This may be why US DOs are matching in higher percentages than Carib MD grads.
This is a good post to refer to.
Edit: Great, not good.
The 48% are US students are foreign institutions.
Last edited:
Thank you all, that's my worry. I am thinking about Residency spot at this point and I have read various and various posts about problems at Ross
No, I am only planning to live and practice in the state, particularly California. Thank's for the advice, yes it's a tough decision all though I want that M.D. title.
Uhh what?
EDUCATE YOURSELF THOROUGHLY BEFORE YOU MAKE THIS DECISION
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
Thanks Rama, yes the start date is important for me.
Your education should be more important. IMO, you should definitely wait for the DO school.
.
Last edited:
As someone who was born and raised in the Caribbean, I can tell you that the above statement is True. I know dozens of West Indians who went back to go to Ross, some made it some didn't. The only school that's even remotely on par with American schools is SGU.
FYI, MSU does not have a university hospital. MD and DO students at MSU rotate at a number of community hospitals in the state.
U of M is actually the only university hospital at all in Michigan. Wayne State doesn't have a hospital, MSU doesn't have a hospital. They use community hospital systems.
So many people here (and I'm not referring to Bacchus) seem to think that "community hospital" means "podunk clinic". This simply isn't the case. Community hospitals in Michigan include well-respected facilities such as Borgess & Bronson (in Kalamazoo), Spectrum, St. Mary's, & MetroHealth (in Grand Rapids), Henry Ford & Detroit Medical Center (Detroit Metro area), etc.
Rotating, being a resident/fellow, and practicing at a community hospital in no way precludes you from getting a good medical education, doing research, seeing a variety of patients, etc.
Wrong and wrong. One thing, it is difficult to transition countries as a physician regardless of the letters after your name. You are still eligible and can do many things such as doctors without borders as a DO. The hoops to jump through to practice in another country involve far more than the letters after your name. They generally involve providing solid and legally translated proof that your education was equivalent to a world standard. After that, you will still be required to go through a ton of other things. Having lived in the UK doesn't mean you know the entire system. I lived in Germany for a little while but you will never hear me make any of those claims. MD means different things in different countries. It isn't a standard.
If you have hopes of living in another country as an American then your best bet is to become a citizen of that country, pass language tests, go to medical school there and do all of your post-graduate training. It isn't to attend a Caribbean MD school that takes nearly anyone with a pulse.
Thanks for clearing that up. It was a bad assumption on my part. However, I agree 100% about community hospitals. As long as the pathology exists at these hospitals, regardless of University affiliation, you'll learn a ton.
Depends on the school. From what I can tell from their website (kind of hard to decipher what exactly a "semester" entails) it comes out to around $40g's in tuition per year. Some DO schools are cheaper, some are comparable.
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/documents/MedRatesBSClinical0910final.pdf
here's the catalog if you want to try and figure it out:
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/documents/med08_catalog.pdf
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
.
Last edited:
It's a fact that only 40% of Caribbean graduates matched into allopathic residencies last year whereas over 70% of DO graduates matched. The numbers are even a little skewed because some of the 30% of DOs who are claimed as "unmatched" matched into the DO match a month earlier and were automatically withdrawn from the MD match.
This is so ridiculous, I almost didn't comment, but it was too ridiculous to let pass. I've shadowed half a dozen DOs and all of them say exactly the opposite. One is a cardiologist who's a partner in a practice with three MDs. Also, DOs practice abroad in MANY countries and are also part of the WHO, Doctors Without Borders, and numerous other international organizations. You really think any practice that discriminates against a DO isn't going to discriminate against a Carib grad? LOL
Even if you complete an MD residency, you will still be a DO. You can't change the initials.
Your post makes no sense. The OP mentioned nothing in regards to financing?? The thread and the original post seem to only consider the DO vs. MD at Ross aspect. If you are implying that DO schools are considerably cheaper I do not agree with you.
As for the attrition rates, its all what you make of it. I know several people that have graduated from Carribean schools over the past 5 years and YES they worked hard and YES they are ALL in US residency programs. So the attrition rates have little to say about the school or the program, but more to say about the individual student. It is a little easier to get into these schools so naturally there are going to be students with lower numbers that will not be able to hack it. If the OP plans to work as hard as he would in a US MD or DO school than he WILL graduate.
As for 1 giving you a higher probability of paying off your student loans, your going to have to show me where your getting this information from? Being an older non-traditional student, I know quite a few people that have gone this route and they are all doing just fine financially and are all on par with national averages for their specialties.
And as for the stigma, I never said anywhere that I agree with it. I personally see no difference between the two. However that does not change the fact that it does exist. Its evident in every field ( Ph.D's vs. Psy.D, Ph.D vs. Ed.D, MD vs. DO, Computer Science vs. MIS degree) and your not going to change it. People are people, and as long as there is a difference in the admissions standards for MD vs. DO schools that stigma will exist. Whether its justified or not. Do you really want to deal with that ignorance throughout your career? Like I said its a "personal and psychological difference" - some people care what others think and will be disgruntled if they have worked just as hard to then have to deal with the ignorance of a select few because of those letters behind their name.
And lastly, why would you go DO if you are not particularly into their philoshopy?? As a matter of fact, DO schools don't even want you if your not into their philosophy, you even have to convince them that you are in your essays.
