Ross University will now be in Tennessee at the LMU campus starting JAN. Thoughts?

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Wonder how that's gonna work out legally.

"Efforts are underway by RUSM and Adtalem Global Education to acquire all necessary regulatory approvals and finalize other details."

What sort of legal issues will they face? I don't think they would have announced this if they didn't have a plan in place. But then again, this is Ross that we are talking about.
 
"Efforts are underway by RUSM and Adtalem Global Education to acquire all necessary regulatory approvals and finalize other details."

What sort of legal issues will they face? I don't think they would have announced this if they didn't have a plan in place. But then again, this is Ross that we are talking about.

It's funny how just hours ago you wrote "Do you wanna be on a ship with no wifi, running water, minimal food and four people per room?" and now they actually have a plan to continue in the US. Complete reversal of fortunes lol
 
"Efforts are underway by RUSM and Adtalem Global Education to acquire all necessary regulatory approvals and finalize other details."

What sort of legal issues will they face? I don't think they would have announced this if they didn't have a plan in place. But then again, this is Ross that we are talking about.
I figured LCME and thus potentially the ED wouldn't be too happy about it.
 
I'm curious how this impacts their enrollment in 2018 and beyond.

Would students be more willing to go to Ross because it is now in the US? Assuming they'll be there for at least a year
 
I was more wondering if that body would note these changes to the program and consider reassessment of accreditation.


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So would these Ross students be doing rotations w/ U.S. patients? I don’t see how they can do their clinical in TN 😕
 
So would these Ross students be doing rotations w/ U.S. patients? I don’t see how they can do their clinical in TN 😕

They already were doing that. First 2 years on the island, last 2 back in the US.
 
@gonnif I am following what you’re saying, I think I’m just not explaining myself well. I wondered whether the government of Dominica, as you put it, would continue to grant accreditation to this school since it has now completely left the islands and no longer brings the economic stimulus that provided the incentive to offer accreditation in the first place.


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Just a thought I had. You can probably fool more people as a Ross student now that they are actually in the US. Actually, the average person had no idea that Ross was a foreign school to begin with.
 
Of course they will, if they try to revoke the charter, Ross will go to another island. What Dominica will do is pressure them but that can only go so far.

So what is stopping Ross or other Caribbean schools from gaming the system and operating in the US with their Caribbean charter? Sounds like LCME can't touch them and whoever they are accredited by wont rock the boat. Being US based would be a major selling point for Ross... I just picture them being the herpes of med schools by doing this.
 
So what is stopping Ross or other Caribbean schools from gaming the system and operating in the US with their Caribbean charter? Sounds like LCME can't touch them and whoever they are accredited by wont rock the boat. Being US based would be a major selling point for Ross... I just picture them being the herpes of med schools by doing this.
Where's the wise @Med Ed when you need him??!!
 
So what is stopping Ross or other Caribbean schools from gaming the system and operating in the US with their Caribbean charter? Sounds like LCME can't touch them and whoever they are accredited by wont rock the boat. Being US based would be a major selling point for Ross... I just picture them being the herpes of med schools by doing this.

They didn't "game the system." There was a Cat 5 hurricane which destroyed the island. They probably asked around to find out which school would let them use their facilities. Luckily for them, one said yes.

And it's supposed to be temporary. Whenever the island is ready, they go back.
 
Are you going to add LMU to the list of DO schools you can no longer recommend? (touro-ny and lucom)
From this, and info that I can't share, as it came via PM, they're on my radar. I have a suspicion (or maybe wishful thinking) that COCA will not approve of this. On the surface, it looks like Ross paying a bribe to LMU to allow for medical education on the US mainland. LCME might even smell something nefarious.
 
And more importantly, the costs of doing business in the US is far too much for their business model. Economics will keep them from running in US

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-The state education board would go after them or, more likely, the associated chartered organization
-The state business authority would go after them for operating without a license, or more likely, for operating under false pretenses (ie not having chartered school)
-And more importantly, the costs of doing business in the US is far too much for their business model. Economics will keep them from running in US

Don't the first two points here apply to their "temporary" relocation as well?
 
Pisses me off. Now all these Caribbean student posers are going to act like they have a US MD. I bet Ross is Foaming at the mouth now that they can advertise themselves in the USA
 
So what is stopping Ross or other Caribbean schools from gaming the system and operating in the US with their Caribbean charter? Sounds like LCME can't touch them and whoever they are accredited by wont rock the boat. Being US based would be a major selling point for Ross... I just picture them being the herpes of med schools by doing this.

What's stopping them is their Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and other Health Professions (CAAM-HP) accreditation, the one that allows them to operate in Dominica. If they moved wholesale to the US, they would lose that accreditation and have to obtain LCME approval to keep awarding MD degrees.

Ultimately, they will come to LMU for awhile, and when the campus in Dominica is repaired they will all pack up and head back. There is no reason for anyone to feel threatened.
 
What's stopping them is their Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and other Health Professions (CAAM-HP) accreditation, the one that allows them to operate in Dominica. If they moved wholesale to the US, they would lose that accreditation and have to obtain LCME approval to keep awarding MD degrees.

Ultimately, they will come to LMU for awhile, and when the campus in Dominica is repaired they will all pack up and head back. There is no reason for anyone to feel threatened.

So basically, LCME says in the future "Your island is fixed, go back home"?

And this is definitely establishing a base for LMU's branch campus, no?
 
So basically, LCME says in the future "Your island is fixed, go back home"?

No, CAAM-HP will say it. The LCME isn't the Coast Guard. If Ross every wants to make itself a domestic MD-granting institution that is actually under the purview of the LCME, it will have to find permanent facilities in the US, hire a faculty, go through the normal accreditation processes, and obtain approval the state. Until then it's just an offshore medical school trying to stay in business in the wake of natural disaster.

bigindian4891 said:
And this is definitely establishing a base for LMU's branch campus, no?

I don't know what this means.
 
Can I also add to this fact to this thread as the press release reads

More than 1,400 students, faculty and staff from Ross University School of Medicine (RUSM) plan to relocate temporarily to Knoxville, Tenn. to continue their program of study after Hurricane Maria damaged the medical school’s home country of Dominica in September.

I am not sure this will get off the ground despite their attempts to do so. But it does well to calm the stock holders

I think they will do it. Apparently SGU did it as well back in the day.

"Grenada has not received the brunt of this year’s hurricanes but Charles Modica, St. George’s chancellor, said that when Hurricane Ivan hit in 2004, the school relocated to an osteopathic medical college in New York, among other places, and that students were able to complete the semester."

For Many Medical Students, the Caribbean Was Warm and Welcoming. Until Now.

Why couldn't Ross do the same?
 
in 2004 SGU had some major political help in the form of NYC Hospitals. At that time SGU was paying NYC Health and Hospital Corporation for student rotation slots. Some NYCOM’s rotations were in same hospitals. If SGU didnt have a close, NYC HHC could lose a chunk of money. NYCOM, which itself was a partly politically backed creation by a former governor of NY, was first thinking it could take over these slots. But it had money issues and was soon sold essentially to NYIT, not only couldnt afford the rotations but needed the cash infusion. There was some pressure put on them by NYC to help accomodate SGU with promises of more clinical space.

I do not know the politics in TN but certainly LMU sees cash infusion and perhaps the ever present idea of a for-profit US MD school in their future

In your opinion, is there any chance Ross somehow becomes a US MD school?

Hearing some rumblings from my friends on the cruise ship. Apparently, LMU wants to "buy a school." Sounds like BS, but just wanted your opinion
 
In your opinion, is there any chance Ross somehow becomes a US MD school?

If it were to become a US school it would not be able to succeed in its business model, which relies heavily on attrition to sustain clinical rotation slots for third and fourth year students.

This fear is unfounded.
 
You have two different issues here

1) Ross University as an educational institution with the legal authority to issue degrees is chartered by the government of Dominica and is accredited by Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and other Health Professions (CAAM-HP). No matter where students are physically doing their education, they will earn degrees under this and will be

So technically Stanford/Harvard/Duke/JHU/ etc can do their med school on an Island and still be considering US grads?
 
If it were to become a US school it would not be able to succeed in its business model, which relies heavily on attrition to sustain clinical rotation slots for third and fourth year students.

This fear is unfounded.

I know it's only a hypothetical but I wonder what they would do if almost every student did in fact make it to 3rd year. There is a chance that 90% of the students could get their **** together and pass the first 2 years.

I mean, Ross has been pretty quick to react to disasters as of late. The cruise ship idea is nuts, but at least they continued the semester. And now obviously they are going to Tennessee...
 
St George's did this after hurricane Ivan in 2004 for one semester. Students were sent to NY and Miami depending on which semester. It was for one semester only. It did not become a US school and neither will Ross.


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I wonder if they tried to become a US school that year. According to SDN, Caribbean schools had a little more respect back then.

Basketball analogy: But even so, it's like the best player in the NBA minor leagues trying to join the NBA. He might not do much in the pros, but at least he's a pro.
 
I wonder if they tried to become a US school that year. According to SDN, Caribbean schools had a little more respect back then.

Basketball analogy: But even so, it's like the best player in the NBA minor leagues trying to join the NBA. He might not do much in the pros, but at least he's a pro.

Originally Caribbean schools werent necessarily diploma mills. Pretty sure when I read about one schools history it started decades ago with a small class size of XYZ number of students in a hotel
 
Anyone think DCOM will snag their better professors? Since it's a DCOM campus I imagine a few would want to stay and LMU is going to have to hire more faculty soon anyway.
 
Anyone think DCOM will snag their better professors? Since it's a DCOM campus I imagine a few would want to stay and LMU is going to have to hire more faculty soon anyway.
No. The branch campus might very well be run like Western-OR or Touro-Middletown (or is it LECOM-SH?) and have televised lectures from the parent campus.

And how would LMU even know who is "one of the better professors"?
 
I'm not sure, but I would imagine the close relationships they have in Knoxville might result in them trying to gain some faculty there. You think it'll be remote?
 
Can anyone explain the extreme animosity about Ross? I mean as a nurse ultimately >50% of the doctors I work with are IMGs form Syria, India, and elsewhere. And their fail rate is simply due to the fact that they provide an opprutunity to people who otherwise didn’t have it. Furthermore the education is the same as US and while accreditation is from dominica the majority of their funds comes from the US gov in the form of federal loans and therefore must be held to those standards or else they will loose the funding stream. And finally the quality of education is a moot point anyways because the true equalizer is USMLE regardless of your schools location.
 
Can anyone explain the extreme animosity about Ross? I mean as a nurse ultimately >50% of the doctors I work with are IMGs form Syria, India, and elsewhere. And their fail rate is simply due to the fact that they provide an opprutunity to people who otherwise didn’t have it. Furthermore the education is the same as US and while accreditation is from dominica the majority of their funds comes from the US gov in the form of federal loans and therefore must be held to those standards or else they will loose the funding stream. And finally the quality of education is a moot point anyways because the true equalizer is USMLE regardless of your schools location.

The animosity is towards the school, not the students themselves. The school deliberately takes in more students than the rotation spots they have for 3rd year. Basically, they bank on the fact that people will fail.

Other than that and how they take in students with lower GPAs and MCATs, hundreds of students at Ross match every year. Granted, most of these spots are in primary care, but a doctor is a doctor.

Although a small minority on SDN, there are some people who don't like the students there either. They think they were suckered in by the administrators at Ross, gave into parental pressure, had the inability to delay their gratification, and have no business being doctors if they couldn't get into a US school, which simply isn't true.
 
The animosity is towards the school, not the students themselves. The school deliberately takes in more students than the rotation spots they have for 3rd year. Basically, they bank on the fact that people will fail.

Other than that and how they take in students with lower GPAs and MCATs, hundreds of students at Ross match every year. Granted, most of these spots are in primary care, but a doctor is a doctor.

Although a small minority on SDN, there are some people who don't like the students there either. They think they were suckered in by the administrators at Ross, gave into parental pressure, had the inability to delay their gratification, and have no business being doctors if they couldn't get into a US school, which simply isn't true.

Ok I’m glad to hear for most it’s not the students them selves.

Just to give my 2 cents I am currently on the fantastic boat and will be heading to TENN. So I went to Ross at 29 after a long time doing many other things in life and long story short I either had to be accepted In December or postpone my medical education 5 years due to other potential engagements. While I’m sure some young and naive students are suckered into the allure of an easy medical education I believe the majority come down knowing full well the true nature of the Caribbean beast. The ones that fail are the ones that truly shouldn’t be there but with out a school that takes high risk applicants there would be no path for people that messed up their first year or two of college. Now I can only speak for Ross but all the horror stories of not enough housing or class room space is totally false. Also after talking with a few US MD buddies of mine the course work I am taking is the same.

My thoughts on tenn. and beyond are yea it will be nice to be home for a while but I genuinely don’t care about where Ross goes from ther as long as the provide the education that I need. From a nursing prospective the numbers of grads coming out of Ross fills the extremely deep need for physicians. The current state of us healthcare is at a point where prestige and pointless bitterness needs to be set aside in order to decrease patient😛hysician ratios and improve patient outcomes. Just my 2 cents from an ED/ICU Nurses prospective.

I would like to hear what people think about the increasing demand for physicians and how it relates to low output from us medschool a and extremely limited residency slots. At the rate there is no way to fill the desparity with out expanding the roll of NP and PA while also opening up more medschools and increasing residency slots.
 
@LT-to-RN-to-MD-2017 We are not running out of doctors, it’s a distribution problem. Residency slots are the bottleneck, and whether they are filled with IMGs or US graduates they still produce roughly the same number of doctors per year. The opportunity for Caribbean graduates is not the same as it is for US graduates, in both residency choice, location, and job prospects.

Furthermore there are a lot of other ways to come back from a bad first two years of college that are less risky and more likely to lead to success and opportunity that aren’t offshore schools.

I am glad that you have had success thus far, and I hope that things go well for you in light of these wild unforeseen circumstances.
 
Can anyone explain the extreme animosity about Ross? I mean as a nurse ultimately >50% of the doctors I work with are IMGs form Syria, India, and elsewhere. And their fail rate is simply due to the fact that they provide an opprutunity to people who otherwise didn’t have it.

Much of the animosity stems from the fact that Ross's business model depends on failure.

LT-to-RN-to-MD-2017 said:
Furthermore the education is the same as US

Uh, no.

LT-to-RN-to-MD-2017 said:
the true equalizer is USMLE regardless of your schools location.

USMLE is a test of minimal necessary medical knowledge. It was not designed as an equalizer, and it is certainly susceptible to manipulation by schools that run their first two years as Step 1 prep courses.
 
Much of the animosity stems from the fact that Ross's business model depends on failure.



Uh, no.



USMLE is a test of minimal necessary medical knowledge. It was not designed as an equalizer, and it is certainly susceptible to manipulation by schools that run their first two years as Step 1 prep courses.
Just to add to the above comments
1) there is an inherent conflict of the legal fiduciary responsibilities to the stock holders of the parent company of Ross and AUC versus the education of the students
2) the above essentially requires the schools to admit any warm body that can pay in order to maximizes profits
3) these profits are essentially backed by the US taxpayer thru federal loan program. That is a student who borrows the money, pays the school, then either flunks out or never gets a residency position, owes the government money. The school got theirs
4) thus the schools practice strong marketing and predatory behavior to attract students who are not qualified to begin medical school
5) the schools can attract many advisors and students with truly misleading statistics. I have discussed this extensively elsewhere in these forums, especially the residency numbers which are highly questionable
6) with the growth in graduates from US MD and DO schools, opportunities for residency spots is greatly reduced for IMGs

In sum thousands of people successfully become doctors each year from off-shore schools but thousands more never do.

I don’t disagree, and I don’t intend to get into an ethics argument but I honestly don’t know a single person down here that isn’t aware thet the statistics are presented in a misleading fashion or that this is a gamble. Most of my friends on this boat left great careers in other fields to peruse their dream knowing full well the risks involved. As future doctors I to believe that we can say “I was duped by that crafty business model”. We all know how statistics can be interpreted and that for profit business plays games with the numbers for their benefit. Doctors do it too. So it’s in my personal opinion that if you don’t like a business modes just don’t invest in the business but don’t talk ill of the people that go there. There is so much stigma already with going there that it took me 2 years to find out the the cheif of hospalists and a thoracic surgeon I worked with regularly went to Ross.

The student determines the quality of doctor not the school!
 
USMLE is a test of minimal necessary medical knowledge. It was not designed as an equalizer, and it is certainly susceptible to manipulation by schools that run their first two years as Step 1 prep courses.

Why does it matter if the first 2 years of your school are basically a Step 1 prep course? Isn't that what makes or breaks a candidate during the residency process?

I just find it hard to believe that a PD would say ,"Oh his school focused heavily on the USMLE Step 1, so we're going to hold that against him."
 
Much of the animosity stems from the fact that Ross's business model depends on failure.



Uh, no.



USMLE is a test of minimal necessary medical knowledge. It was not designed as an equalizer, and it is certainly susceptible to manipulation by schools that run their first two years as Step 1 prep courses.
Much of the animosity stems from the fact that Ross's business model depends on failure.



Uh, no.


USMLE is a test of minimal necessary medical knowledge. It was not designed as an equalizer, and it is certainly susceptible to manipulation by schools that run their first two years as Step 1 prep courses.

I don’t want to go on a rant but simply put many of my professors were teaching in US medical school a year ago and brought the same lectures to Ross. Also the cariculum lines up with that of my friends in US medical schools.

So what I’m trying to understand is do the words I’m reading from the same text books and the lectures I receive from prior US medical professors some how mean something different now that I’m on forgin soil?
 
Most students, parents, and, most importantly, advisors, do not know or understand the real statistics that go with these schools. Most of these have absolutely no idea how rotations work nor have even the slightly clue how medical residency works. So many of these students who go in, not with eyes wide open about chances but wearing rose colored glasses provided by the schools, and do so knowing that any debt the students incur is the goverment's problem . I do not blame the students for this but the schools . My purpose on here is to provide prospective applicants with real information and data so they can make a decision. And am one of the few on here who doesnt dismiss these schools completely. as I've said many times, before considering any offshore school, an applicant should go through at least two application cycles for both MD and DO with at least a year break in between (ie skip a cycle) for application repair and/or enhancement. the break is necessary to analyze and understand the weaknesses in an application. Repair may be as simple as reorganizing rewriting application or it may require postbacc, SMP, MCAT, or additional extracurricular such as clinical volunteering and other items. I strongly advise that no student should consider off shore schools until the above has been done.

Again I whole heartedly agree with you about trying for us medical schools before going to the carribean. I do think you over estimate the numbers of naive students at least at Ross. However, I was on a deployment cycle and had I not taken this route I would have been deployed and my education would have been pushed back 5 years because I would have had to retake all my undergrad courses(too old). The only reason I made any comments at all is because when people talk bad about a school the sentiment is passed onto its students. As an individual who made this choice after being pushed between a rock and a hard place this sentimant can be off putting. This will probably be my last post because I don’t want to stir the pot and want to avoid the nonsense. But thank you all for some good information and insight.
 
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When I began as an undergrad at OSU it seemed to be ingrained in me already that Caribbean med schools were horrible to go to and only bad students went there. I do not know where this sentiment came from. After trying to get into US med schools for two years in a row with a 512 on the MCAT and a poor GPA, my physician, whom I greatly admire, informed me that he graduated from Ross and that I should consider attending. It was hard to compromise my pride, but I finally did some research, and it seemed that most of my fears were unfounded. Although there are some students who will not make it to residency, I realized my decision should not be based on them. My success depends on no one else but me. No one is going to hold my hand or make sure I don't fail and that is OK. I am not being duped. If I was a coward I wouldn't pursue Medicine. I am glad I am no longer one of the people who have an unfounded distaste for ALL Caribbean med schools. Yes I realize that there are some informed individuals that do not like them and that is OK, but I urge you to treat your future coworkers with respect no matter where they graduated from. They will have heard it all anyway, and they probably have some pretty tough skin.
 
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