ROTC and Med school process

[Backpack]

So I'm entering my freshman year of college this fall and I was thinking of joining the Air Force ROTC to help with tuition and also gain a once in a lifetime experience after college. I was just wondering how this works with the med school process. If I got accepted I know I could delay my service to go to school but what happens after with the residency matching. Has anyone been through this and if so do you think the air force (or any military branch) helped you while entering the medical field?

Thanks

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[ksc]

A good friend of mine did this when we were in college, only he went through the Army's ROTC. For Air Force, I think you have to choose several AF residencies when you apply, but you aren't obligated to make them your top choices (unlike the other branches). Because AF has the smallest number of residency slots/ facilities, they offer the greatest chance at getting a civilian deferral.

Can't really comment on whether his training had an effect on his performance in medical school. He was offered a ton of invitations to interview at various schools, but I think that's more of a reflection of his entire application than just military training alone.

 

[DrMetal]

So I'm entering my freshman year of college this fall and I was thinking of joining the Air Force ROTC to help with tuition and also gain a once in a lifetime experience after college. I was just wondering how this works with the med school process. If I got accepted I know I could delay my service to go to school but what happens after with the residency matching. Has anyone been through this and if so do you think the air force (or any military branch) helped you while entering the medical field?

Thanks

The primary function of most ROTC programs is to produce line officers (pilots, infantrymem, navigators, etc etc), with a small percentage going to support communities (Intel, Supply, etc), and an even smaller percentage going straight to medical school.

So, if you're ok with the (likely) prospect of serving in a line community first, for 4-5 years after college, and then going to med school, then go for ROTC. It's a great way to pay for college (especially the private and expensive ones). And many people have ventured on this path. You go to med school a little later (in your late 20s), but you also gain a lot of valuable experiences by serving in the warfighting military (or direct support thereof).

Now, if you're absolutely dead set on going to med school right after college, and you can't stomach any deviaiton from that plan . . .then I'd probably avoid ROTC. Although it's possible to go from ROTC to med school, I hear it's pretty tough and competitive. (If your AF ROTC unit is comprised of 25 kids, and 15 of them want to go the medical route, the CO couldn't possibly recommend all for med school. He's gotta show some production of pilots, intel, etc. So he'd likely recommend only a few for medical school).

 

[SirGecko]

I'm a current applicant to medical school who did Navy ROTC and it's looking like I'll have to reapply in a few years. (edit: I got into USUHS, doesn't change my advice but thought I'd correct that bit of information) I would have to say that DrMetal is accurate. It is possible to go from ROTC to medical school but it is far from a garuntee.

Another consideration that you should have is that depending on the school ROTC can sometimes take up a lot of time and effort and this can hamper your ability to apply yourself in other aspects of your medical school application. (gpa, volunteering, shadowing, etc) So it definitely isn't something that I would do to help your application. Do it if you want to serve your country in the Air Force though. (just remembr you could wind up doing something else)

 

[colbgw02]

I did Army ROTC and then went straight on to medical school. Unfortunately for me, I took the ROTC scholarship to an expensive school before I decided on medicine. In any case, the above advice is sound.

While in school, it wasn't so much the demand on my free time as it was course scheduling. ROTC classes and labs are typically locked into specific time slots, which really limits options for other classes. This issue is amplified with a pre-med curriculum, which contains a lot of science courses with labs. You'll want the flexibility to take the courses and professors you want to keep up your GPA.

As others have mentioned, the military is under no obligation to let you go to medical school. If you apply for and receive HPSP, then that will help to sway them, but then you've just committed yourself to at least 11 years on active duty. Obligating yourself until the age of 36 when you're a senior in college is rarely a good thing.

Remember that every single HPSP student gets the same rank and pay in about 5 minutes what it took you 4 years to earn. And it's not like being an ROTC graduate alone gets you a ton of respect from the NCOs. Unless you've got a ridiculously expensive tuition bill that you can't pay, then I don't see much benefit in ROTC for someone intending to go straight to medical school.

 

[bassfishindoc]

I just graduated from Army ROTC and will be starting medical school with HPSP next month. The first thing I will tell you is that it is VERY competitive to get an educational delay right out of ROTC. The Army has certain slots it has to fill in every branch. Some branches such as aviation, infantry, armor, and medical are very competitive. When you are in Army ROTC you are ranked against EVERY OTHER CADET in the nation for your branching (I can't speak for navy and af, but I assume they are similar). Your branch depends on how you ranked in the nation, how other cadets ranked who also want the branch you do (as they are your competition), as well as needs of the army. For example, with my year group, over 100 applied for educational delays and less than fifteen got them for medical school. I got one because I was cadet number 62 out 4450 in the nation, and top of my school. If you think you can be in the top ten percent nationally, then go for it. Top 10% ALMOST always get what they want.

To answer your other question, I found that my ROTC experience greatly helped me in my med school app. It showed that I had leadership experience, was capable of handling stress, and helped set me apart from the crowd a little bit. Keep in mind though, ROTC was not my only activity. I was a leader in MANY other things as well as an EMT-IV and had tons of clinical experience, and a 3.98 GPA. If you are capable of handling the stress and think you can be one of the top, ROTC is a great way to go, but know, you will be in the military and you need to understand what that entails.
​

 

[Mirror Form]

I just graduated from Army ROTC and will be starting medical school with HPSP next month. The first thing I will tell you is that it is VERY competitive to get an educational delay right out of ROTC. The Army has certain slots it has to fill in every branch. Some branches such as aviation, infantry, armor, and medical are very competitive. When you are in Army ROTC you are ranked against EVERY OTHER CADET in the nation for your branching (I can't speak for navy and af, but I assume they are similar). Your branch depends on how you ranked in the nation, how other cadets ranked who also want the branch you do (as they are your competition), as well as needs of the army. For example, with my year group, over 100 applied for educational delays and less than fifteen got them for medical school. I got one because I was cadet number 62 out 4450 in the nation, and top of my school. If you think you can be in the top ten percent nationally, then go for it. Top 10% ALMOST always get what they want.

Wait a second, you said you're doing HPSP, and then you said you got an ed delay? They're not the same thing. An Education Delay is when you basically go on reserve status during your education, and pay for you grad degree w/ your own money. HPSP is much different because you're on a scholarship.

When i was applying for an ed delay out of ROTC, I was told that it was not guaranteed, but was typically granted b/c the army gets a doctor for the price of an undergrad degree. I did get an ed delay and paid for med school myself (one of the best decisions I ever made) b/c even if I stay in for 20 years I'll still come out ahead finacially compared to taking the hpsp scholarship. And meanwhile I still only had four years comitment instead of 8 which BASICALLY LOCKS YOU IN FOR 20 YEARS. Anyone applying for army ROTC that wants to go to medical school needs to be aware of that fact. If you take a medical school scholarship, and you may have to . . . are you really ready to commit to 20 years in the military?

To answer your other question, I found that my ROTC experience greatly helped me in my med school app. It showed that I had leadership experience, was capable of handling stress, and helped set me apart from the crowd a little bit. Keep in mind though, ROTC was not my only activity. I was a leader in MANY other things as well as an EMT-IV and had tons of clinical experience, and a 3.98 GPA. If you are capable of handling the stress and think you can be one of the top, ROTC is a great way to go, but know, you will be in the military and you need to understand what that entails.

ROTC experience may help more these days. I applied pre 9/11 and many med school application boards where fairly liberal and seemed to look down on the military. Whereas, had i invested that enormous time chunk that ROTC took up into studying more, doing research, volunteer work, etc., I probably would have been just as good if not better off (still got into some good allopathic schools).

 

[bassfishindoc]

Wait a second, you said you're doing HPSP, and then you said you got an ed delay? They're not the same thing. An Education Delay is when you basically go on reserve status during your education, and pay for you grad degree w/ your own money. HPSP is much different because you're on a scholarship.

When i was applying for an ed delay out of ROTC, I was told that it was not guaranteed, but was typically granted b/c the army gets a doctor for the price of an undergrad degree. I did get an ed delay and paid for med school myself (one of the best decisions I ever made) b/c even if I stay in for 20 years I'll still come out ahead finacially compared to taking the hpsp scholarship. And meanwhile I still only had four years comitment instead of 8 which BASICALLY LOCKS YOU IN FOR 20 YEARS. Anyone applying for army ROTC that wants to go to medical school needs to be aware of that fact. If you take a medical school scholarship, and you may have to . . . are you really ready to commit to 20 years in the military?

I know that HPSP and an ed delay are different. I never implied that they were the same thing. With ROTC, if you want to go to medical school you have to request and earn an ed delay. If you receive an ed delay, you can then go to med school. If you want to go to med school on the army's dime, you then apply for HPSP. Exactly what I did. I may not have made it clear though, receiving the HPSP scholarship is not a guarantee that you will receive an ed delay, as I said, they are VERY COMPETATIVE. In my case, I received the HPSP in Oct 2008 and did not find out that I had received an ed delay until March 2009. If the army had decided they wanted me in another branch, they very well could have, and my HPSP would go to someone else. I just set myself up so that I could almost guarantee I would get what I want.

How would you come out ahead if you went 20 years in the army and did not accept the HPSP? You make the same amount of money over 20 years of service whether your obligatory commitment is 4 years or 8 years. The pay for obligatory commitment and non-obligatory commitment is the same. With the HPSP you don't have $200,000 in debt you have to pay off. I am just wondering about your rational.

 

[Mirror Form]

How would you come out ahead if you went 20 years in the army and did not accept the HPSP? You make the same amount of money over 20 years of service whether your obligatory commitment is 4 years or 8 years.

Nope, if you pay for med school yourself, those four years are added to your pay scale. If you do HPSP, they will not count toward your pay scale. So you'll spend your 20 years of active duty making a bit more each year. At first it's a pretty big difference, but over time it decreases quite a bit in significance.

The pay for obligatory commitment and non-obligatory commitment is the same.

Nope. If you don't take the HPSP scholarship, but decide you want to stay active duty for an extra four years, you're eligible for huge bonuses. For some specialties it's upwards of 40k per year if you sign on for an additional four years past your initial commitment. If you're HPSP then you'll already be obligated for those 4 extra years and you'll be ineligible for the bonus.

Of course the benefit of this varies depending on your med school's tuition and the military's need for physicians in your specialty. In my case I went to "old state U" for med school which was less than 20k per year tuition. So I could take have the military pay me 20k per year in tuition during med school + the stipend, or 40k per year later on (before taxes of course). Given that my student loans are consolidated at a less than 2% interest rate, I'd say the 40k later on looks much better. Especially given that you don't have to sign up for any additional commitment until the time comes.

And even if HPSP does add up finacially, why go from a four commitment into being practically locked into 20 years, for only a marginal finacial incentive?

 

[SirGecko]

I think the navy used to let you have that option (pay for it yourself) but I don't believe it is still possible. (just FYI for anyone considering doing NROTC, you cannot pay for medical school yourself)

They really gave you those four years as "time in service" Mirror Form? That really surprises me.

 

[soccerchicoc]

I did army rotc in college and started off knowing i wanted to be a doctor. I was granted an ED Delay and brnach MC through ROTC. I didn't get accepted my first time around and had to apply for an extension which I got. I was accepted in Sept 09 for Med School and took the hpsp scholarship. I wouldn't take back anything about doing ROTC. Any questions feel free to PM me

 

[Mirror Form]

I think the navy used to let you have that option (pay for it yourself) but I don't believe it is still possible. (just FYI for anyone considering doing NROTC, you cannot pay for medical school yourself)

I've heard that too.

They really gave you those four years as "time in service" Mirror Form? That really surprises me.

It's stated very clearly in the regulations. When you're granted an education delay to obtain a graduate degree (w/o taking a military scholarship), and you then use that graduate degree in your military position, then the military will add those years you spent getting the degree toward your pay scale.

The idea is to prevent people who obtain grad degrees from falling behind their military peers in pay. And it makes sense, if I don't take any scholarships after completing ROTC, then why should my years-in-service-toward-payscale fall behind that of my ROTC peers?

 

[SirGecko]

I've heard that too.



It's stated very clearly in the regulations. When you're granted an education delay to obtain a graduate degree (w/o taking a military scholarship), and you then use that graduate degree in your military position, then the military will add those years you spent getting the degree toward your pay scale.

The idea is to prevent people who obtain grad degrees from falling behind their military peers in pay. And it makes sense, if I don't take any scholarships after completing ROTC, then why should my years-in-service-toward-payscale fall behind that of my ROTC peers?

Oh I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I think it is great that you still got your time in service. (I wish USUHS did) It just surprised me.

Oh and it looks like it would be a good idea if you can do it to go ahead and pay for school yourself. Especially if you go to a school with lower price of attending. (it might still be worth it to get the military to pay for the most expensive medical schools but I'm not even sure about that) That might be why the Navy doesn't let you do it because they want to keep us in and pay us less.

 

[Mirror Form]

some specialties it's upwards of 40k per year if you sign on for an additional four years past your initial commitment. If you're HPSP then you'll already be obligated for those 4 extra years and you'll be ineligible for the bonus.

Just a quick update on the math, the military has really bumped the bonus specialty up for some fields. In some specialties, if you re-up for four additional years and if you're fellow ship trained you can get an extra $36,000 per year ON TOP of the $40,000 (or whatever it is for your specialty).

So for people in my field that's $76,000 more per year then the person who is already obligated for those four additional years. But once again, this is highly variable from year to year.

 

[COMBAT MEDIC172]

What about doing ROTC for the National Guard, or Reserves? That way you do not have to worry about getting a delay. I am starting ROTC in the fall as a junior. I am currently on active duty and I am receiving a Green to Gold scholarship. I chose the National Guard option, because I don’t want to worry about getting a delay. There is also a program that pays you as a 1st or 2nd lt. for three years during medical school called the ASR (Amedd student recruiter) for National Guards members. This program may or may not be around in the future; however, if you did ROTC for the National Guard and then took the ASR option you would be set up for medical school. Just my 2.

 

[lee88]

I am a senior in Navy ROTC, and I have already been put into the MC branch, is this the same as an education delay? My ROTC officer staff said it was, but this wouldn't be the first time they had no idea what they were talking about. I would like to pay for my state medical school on my own, and am trying to make sure that this is allowed. I called my local medical recruiter about the process too, he didn't know but he said he'd get back to me.(still waiting). Any help I could get would be much appreciated.

Thank you!!!

I've heard that too.




It's stated very clearly in the regulations. When you're granted an education delay to obtain a graduate degree (w/o taking a military scholarship), and you then use that graduate degree in your military position, then the military will add those years you spent getting the degree toward your pay scale.

The idea is to prevent people who obtain grad degrees from falling behind their military peers in pay. And it makes sense, if I don't take any scholarships after completing ROTC, then why should my years-in-service-toward-payscale fall behind that of my ROTC peers?

 

[SirGecko]

Pretty sure your officers don't really know what they are talking about. (my ROTC unit produces a surprising number of medical corps people, like one every few years, and they still are a little hazy on the process) As far as I know you don't get to pay for medical school yourself coming out of ROTC. You either go to USUHS or you get an HPSP scholarship. Now I could be mistaken. What I suggest you do is find that letter or document that you got from the board when they said you could apply to medical school. That might have some information on the subject.

 

[colbgw02]

Pretty sure your officers don't really know what they are talking about. (my ROTC unit produces a surprising number of medical corps people, like one every few years, and they still are a little hazy on the process) As far as I know you don't get to pay for medical school yourself coming out of ROTC. You either go to USUHS or you get an HPSP scholarship. Now I could be mistaken. What I suggest you do is find that letter or document that you got from the board when they said you could apply to medical school. That might have some information on the subject.

Just to be clear, this is not for all services and may be Navy specific (Air Force I'm not sure about). As mentioned above, in the Army you can get an educational delay for medical school without doing HPSP or attending USUHS.

 

[SirGecko]

Just to be clear, this is not for all services and may be Navy specific (Air Force I'm not sure about). As mentioned above, in the Army you can get an educational delay for medical school without doing HPSP or attending USUHS.

Oh yeah, sorry if I didn't make that clear. As far as I know Navy won't let you but I don't have a clue about the other two.

Also I think you may have misspoke. I don't think you can ever get an educational delay to attend USUHS because we are all active duty.

(unless maybe to do a PhD? I dunno)

 

[colbgw02]

Also I think you may have misspoke. I don't think you can ever get an educational delay to attend USUHS because we are all active duty.

(unless maybe to do a PhD? I dunno)

Don't know. I just know that they told me I had to get an educational delay as an ROTC cadet to attend medical school. No one ever said that I could avoid the educational delay by attending USUHS.

 

[digitalsea11010]

I just graduated from Army ROTC and will be starting medical school with HPSP next month. The first thing I will tell you is that it is VERY competitive to get an educational delay right out of ROTC. The Army has certain slots it has to fill in every branch. Some branches such as aviation, infantry, armor, and medical are very competitive. When you are in Army ROTC you are ranked against EVERY OTHER CADET in the nation for your branching (I can't speak for navy and af, but I assume they are similar). Your branch depends on how you ranked in the nation, how other cadets ranked who also want the branch you do (as they are your competition), as well as needs of the army. For example, with my year group, over 100 applied for educational delays and less than fifteen got them for medical school. I got one because I was cadet number 62 out 4450 in the nation, and top of my school. If you think you can be in the top ten percent nationally, then go for it. Top 10% ALMOST always get what they want.

To answer your other question, I found that my ROTC experience greatly helped me in my med school app. It showed that I had leadership experience, was capable of handling stress, and helped set me apart from the crowd a little bit. Keep in mind though, ROTC was not my only activity. I was a leader in MANY other things as well as an EMT-IV and had tons of clinical experience, and a 3.98 GPA. If you are capable of handling the stress and think you can be one of the top, ROTC is a great way to go, but know, you will be in the military and you need to understand what that entails.
​

Just in case anyone stumbles on this old quote and freaks out. I believe things have changed quite a bit or were never this way. Last year 50 applied for a med educational delay, and 45 received a med educational delay. 25 slots were allotted in total, but the Army takes slots from other educational delays that are not filled an allows more doctors to fill in the cracks. In the past few years, a good GPA and MCAT have been more than enough to qualify you for educational delays. My school understands the process pretty well. Last year we produced 4 of the 93 educational delays granted, which I assume is pretty atypical for a small ROTC unit.

HPSP is a separate application process, but is not terrible to obtain. The Army really needs doctors, and the way I understand it, if you apply with over a certain GPA and at least a 30 MCAT, you are guaranteed the scholarship.

This person's ROTC stats were definitely impressive, but I had a friend last year who was not exactly amazing at ROTC that still got the delay. I believe if you qualify for active duty, the ed delay depends mostly on your competitiveness amongst other applicants to medical school. If they think you can get into medical school, than you can get an educational delay, and supposedly, if you get into a medical school, but do not get an educational delay, there is a way of appealing for one by forwarding the acceptance letter up cadet command.

If you are in ROTC, and want to be a doctor, focus on your GPA, MCAT, and getting clinical exposure. These things are more important than being the best cadet in the nation. The best cadet is better at infantry stuff than medical school stuff in general. I know one exception. She is ranked significantly higher than this person was, and also rocks at medical stuff, but she wants to go active before she goes to medical school.

I don't really know how the other branches work, but pm me if you stumble on my quote and want to know more about Army ROTC and medical school. This process will change from year to year especially with the US being in such a bad financial situation, so do not listen to this quote after a few years, it may no longer be valid.

 

[Lt.Pigford]

How are you friends, I'm new to SDN so this will be my first forum post. I'm going into my third year of undergrad with a 4 year degree in professional biology. I excel in my school work and Army ROTC. I realized that having just this with a couple of "ROTC Volunteers" and Shadowing's may not be enough to get into medical school. I'm also waiting for a undergrad ROTC scholarship that I should get mid fall. Can I get some insight, tips and leadership on how I could pursue this path as I do my missions?