Rough start...

[Geno0513]

Hello everyone! My name is Geno - I am a Sophomore majoring in Psychology.

I am what most people refer to as an academic "late-bloomer." My first year and half was riddled with poor grades (D's and C's, no F's thankfully) and a handful of withdraws.

My brother had passed away and I was going through some major life style changes. Since then I've reinstated my passion for education and discovered my dream to be a psychiatrist again.

I went from having a 1.9GPA first freshman semester, to a 2.8gpa currently - huge upward trend.

I haven't taken too many science related classes yet but I did manage to pull out a B+ in general chemistry this last year.

To further complicate matters, I've been to two different universities and one community college (I'm at now). There was a variety financial problems, nothing grade or performance related.

I would like advice to pursuing medical school. I understand my GPA needs to climb quite a bit more, but I am concerned that after I obtain my B.S. I will need to take a few more semesters to clear science credits - how do medical schools see this?

Any advice is appreciated

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[SkipJunior]

retake your C and D grades and you will be fine for DO school. Forget about MD

 

[Geno0513]

Little confused as to why? I can certainly get my GPA above 3.5 by gradation.

 

[deleted480308]

Little confused as to why? I can certainly get my GPA above 3.5 by gradation.

go ahead an go for it but with a first year gpa of 2.8 and a B+ in an intro science class, the assumption that you will get a 4.0 while adding a lot more difficult science classes is presumptuous.

But for real...go for it. If it doesn't seem to be happening, a few strategic retakes and you are a slamming candidate for DO (if your mcat is reasonable)

Swing for the fences but have that backup plan. I dropped over a grand on MD applications because I love swinging for the fences, I did the same for DO because I love backup plans....I'm in a DO school and don't regret either of the application plans.

 

[Geno0513]

Once again - a little confused. I see people on this forum whose undergrad gpa is sub 3.0 - they go onto a postbach program, raise it, and move onto M.D.

Are you telling me this is impossible??

 

[deleted480308]

Once again - a little confused. I see people on this forum whose undergrad gpa is sub 3.0 - they go onto a postbach program, raise it, and move onto M.D.

Are you telling me this is impossible??

You are having an emotional reaction and not listening to the precise words I typed. It is mathematically possible for you to do this and get to a 3.6 if you have 30 credits at a 2.8 right now. It is realistically unlikely that someone with your gpa will now be able to flip the switch and get all As from now on while beginning to take significantly more difficult science classes.

I really do encourage you to work hard and be the statistical outlier...but know that if you pull this off, you are the exception and not the rule. I love those who work hard enough to be the exception but there is a reason they are the exception..

You need to understand that the larger likelihood is if you get into med school you are a DO.....

 

[Geno0513]

Appreciate the response - but I find it hard to pin down anyone on this forum regarding the question I previously asked.

Why are there underdog stories of people with poor UG gpa moving onto med school? I am not being emotional, but clearly you can't determine ones future based on a handful of information I just provided you.

I'm not like most people on this forum - I'm not asking if you can give me a clean cut answer "if I will get in or not", but rather how to get there.

Is taking classes after UG to enhance my GPA a reasonable idea?

I don't let people decide my future - this is what weak people do. I gather my evidence, and work accordingly.

 

[deleted480308]

Appreciate the response - but I find it hard to pin down anyone on this forum regarding the question I previously asked.

Why are there underdog stories of people with poor UG gpa moving onto med school? I am not being emotional, but clearly you can't determine ones future based on a handful of information I just provided you.

I'm not like most people on this forum - I'm not asking if you can give me a clean cut answer "if I will get in or not", but rather how to get there.

Is taking classes after UG to enhance my GPA a reasonable idea?

I don't let people decide my future - this is what weak people do. I gather my evidence, and work accordingly.

you are asking people to plan your post graduate application plan when you are currently a first semester sophomore with poor academic history and an assumption that you will essentially ace the next 3 yrs. You have no track record and no mcat....the level of advice you have gotten so far is completely reasonable

just get the best grades possible and come back junior year to let us know how you are doing.....you will get far more relevant advice then

 

[Geno0513]

you are asking people to plan your post graduate application plan when you are currently a first semester sophomore with poor academic history and an assumption that you will essentially ace the next 3 yrs. You have no track record and no mcat....the level of advice you have gotten so far is completely reasonable

just get the best grades possible and come back junior year to let us know how you are doing.....you will get far more relevant advice then

This is true - but as for a general inquiry, can you please help me understand how people recover their gpa after UG and still get into MD programs? I'm just curious.

 

[deleted480308]

This is true - but as for a general inquiry, can you please help me understand how people recover their gpa after UG and still get into MD programs? I'm just curious.

i'll admit that is beyond me..that goes more to a poster like goro who is adcom

i just have a good grasp of the rule of thumb odds for normal applicants

 

[Geno0513]

Well I do appreciate your advice, honestly. It just irks me that some people decide to be the all knowing oracle of med-school admissions, judging by anecdotal evidence.

In a field where science is primary - what's with all the mysticism?

Jokes aside - I DO believe I can get into an M.D. program. It might just take me longer.

My education does not end at B.S. - never planed for that, and wouldn't accept that.

If there is a will, there is a way, right?

My perspective - I went from making F's in high school math classes, to making an A is Cal I. A minor achievement to some, but for me this spells hope.

 

[SkipJunior]

Well I do appreciate your advice, honestly. It just irks me that some people decide to be the all knowing oracle of med-school admissions, judging by anecdotal evidence.

In a field where science is primary - what's with all the mysticism?

Jokes aside - I DO believe I can get into an M.D. program. It might just take me longer.

My education does not end at B.S. - never planed for that, and wouldn't accept that.

If there is a will, there is a way, right?

My perspective - I went from making F's in high school math classes, to making an A is Cal I. A minor achievement to some, but for me this spells hope.

why are you looking down upon DO programs? I looked down upon DO progams when I was a premed too, ended up running to the Caribbean so I can get a MD after my name. Now, I'm struggling with loans and I haven't matched into a residency. You seem to be a lot like I was back then. Don't be so cocky and condescending towards DO

 

[deleted480308]

why are you looking down upon DO programs? I looked down upon DO progams when I was a premed too, ended up running to the Caribbean so I can get a MD after my name. Now, I'm struggling with loans and I haven't matched into a residency. You seem to be a lot like I was back then. Don't be so cocky and condescending towards DO

I had a friend from africa attend a mid tier carribean...he had solid board scores and good grades, took 3 years to land a FM residency. Super nice guy with solid english skills too...

 

[Geno0513]

why are you looking down upon DO programs? I looked down upon DO progams when I was a premed too, ended up running to the Caribbean so I can get a MD after my name. Now, I'm struggling with loans and I haven't matched into a residency. You seem to be a lot like I was back then. Don't be so cocky and condescending towards DO

Don't project things onto me - not once did I reference DO schools in a negative way.

Sounds like a bit of a personal issue to me.

Am I wrong to set my goals towards M.D.? Perhaps you would've provided more information in your first post, had I made it clear I'm not an elitist jerky pre-med major... Which I'm not.

Regardless, saying "it's over" and damn near nothing else doesn't convince me entirely that you have much to offer me in advice. Hell, I'm sure you know loads more than I do about MD and DO programs, but I don't take anyone's advice seriously until they explain their reasoning, and provide legitimate answer.

I'm just a little miffed - a lot of naysayers on this forum. Not sure if it's their upbringing or what.

Maybe I'm just pounding sand here, but when I start seeing better grades roll in, god willing a decent MCAT, I doubt advisors are going to straight up tell me to "forget MD"

Just my $0.02

 

[Afford]

Appreciate the response - but I find it hard to pin down anyone on this forum regarding the question I previously asked.

Why are there underdog stories of people with poor UG gpa moving onto med school? I am not being emotional, but clearly you can't determine ones future based on a handful of information I just provided you.

I'm not like most people on this forum - I'm not asking if you can give me a clean cut answer "if I will get in or not", but rather how to get there.

Is taking classes after UG to enhance my GPA a reasonable idea?

I don't let people decide my future - this is what weak people do. I gather my evidence, and work accordingly.

You can get into med school with a low GPA, but you need to have excellent MCATs,extracurriculars, recommendation letters, interview skills, and personal statements. If you're interested, you can buy the MSAR and it tells the 10th percentile for accepted students at every med school. If you can get your total and science GPA over that, you stand a chance at the school as long as everything else is good. If it's under, you need to be excellent in everything else.

 

[Geno0513]

You can get into med school with a low GPA, but you need to have excellent MCATs,extracurriculars, recommendation letters, interview skills, and personal statements. If you're interested, you can buy the MSAR and it tells the 10th percentile for accepted students at every med school. If you can get your total and science GPA over that, you stand a chance at the school as long as everything else is good. If it's under, you need to be excellent in everything else.

Good stuff.

If I happen to get rejected after my B.S. - should I focus on retaking undergrad courses, or continue to a masters program then reapply?

 

[Afford]

Good stuff.

If I happen to get rejected after my B.S. - should I focus on retaking undergrad courses, or continue to a masters program then reapply?

Don't bother with a master's. Grad school GPA doesn't affect your undergrad GPA. If you take undergrad courses, it goes to your postbacc GPA and your undergrad GPA.

I would apply to MD schools with DO schools to avoid getting rejected the first time. DO schools allow grade replacement, so it shouldn't be hard to retake all of your C/D courses and have a high GPA for DO schools.

 

[Geno0513]

Don't bother with a master's. Grad school GPA doesn't affect your undergrad GPA. If you take undergrad courses, it goes to your postbacc GPA and your undergrad GPA.

I would apply to MD schools with DO schools to avoid getting rejected the first time. DO schools allow grade replacement, so it shouldn't be hard to retake all of your C/D courses and have a high GPA for DO schools.

In layman's terms - apply to DO, use grade replacement, transfer to MD if I decide to do so?

 

[ciestar]

In layman's terms - apply to DO, use grade replacement, transfer to MD if I decide to do so?

Absolutely not. It doesn't work that way.

He's telling you to cover all your bases so you have the best possible chance of getting into med school and not having to reapply. Retake the courses you did poorly in, this will indeed increase your chances for med school.

 

[ciestar]

You cannot afford to do poorly from here on out. If you're only a freshman and have completed around 30 credits you can absolutely bring your gpa up with A's in courses. The more credits you have, the harder it'll be. A lot of postbacs are geared towards career changers who need to take the courses, or people who need gpa repair (usually in the form of retakes). It's insanely difficult to greatly raise your gpa once you have a ton of credits with bad grades in them.

SMPs seem to be a popular idea around here though. Insanely expensive but usually high reward if you nail those classes.

 

[deleted480308]

In layman's terms - apply to DO, use grade replacement, transfer to MD if I decide to do so?

there is no transfer to MD

 

[Geno0513]

You cannot afford to do poorly from here on out. If you're only a freshman and have completed around 30 credits you can absolutely bring your gpa up with A's in courses. The more credits you have, the harder it'll be. A lot of postbacs are geared towards career changers who need to take the courses, or people who need gpa repair (usually in the form of retakes). It's insanely difficult to greatly raise your gpa once you have a ton of credits with bad grades in them.

SMPs seem to be a popular idea around here though. Insanely expensive but usually high reward if you nail those classes.

What I'm having trouble grasping is this - what do I do after B.S. IF I'm still not up to snuff?

As I said previously. I've heard of people in their thirties with cGPA of 2.8 going to medical school after recovering their GPAs. How does one do this?

Strictly SMPs??

 

[SkipJunior]

What I'm having trouble grasping is this - what do I do after B.S. IF I'm still not up to snuff?

As I said previously. I've heard of people in their thirties with cGPA of 2.8 going to medical school after recovering their GPAs. How does one do this?

Strictly SMPs??

People in those situations usually do a postbacc (DIY or formal, doesn't matter as long as you bring up your overall and science undergrad GPA). Then ideally, they do a SMP with a medical school after the postbacc program (try to do it with a high linkage SMP like Rosalind Franklin). Obviously this takes up a lot of time and money. However, that's what you need to do if you want MD. Acing the SMP on top of the postbacc program convinces medical schools that you are academically capable and can handle a intense course load.

Now, none of us are your mom. We're not going to tell you that you're a special snowflake who will definitely get into a MD school. We give it to you straight. We don't want you to waste thousands of dollars on MD applications.

As of now, your chances are not good. They are bad, period. However, I would be the happiest guy in the world if you come back 3-5 years from now and rubbed it in my face that you were accepted into a MD program. Do it, prove me wrong.

Like most pre-meds, you seem to think DO is less than MD. The main reason people feel this way is because it's easier to get into DO programs than MD programs. That's still true but the gap is closing. 10 years ago, the average MCAT score for MD matriculants was 30 and 24-25 for DO matriculants. Now, it's 31 for MD matriculants and 27-28 for DO matriculants. The gap is closing.

 

[Afford]

What I'm having trouble grasping is this - what do I do after B.S. IF I'm still not up to snuff?

As I said previously. I've heard of people in their thirties with cGPA of 2.8 going to medical school after recovering their GPAs. How does one do this?

Strictly SMPs??

They probably had 4.0's with their postbacc coursework and they had 10 years to mature and show that they take classes seriously. If you get into MD and DO programs, that's great. If you can only get into DO programs, that's much better than waiting another year to apply again to MD programs.

 

[Geno0513]

Skip junior - I retract my previous statements. I probably came off as crass. I would never criticize or belittle someone on anything, especially educational. I've dealt with criticism my whole life from my parents, fiancés' parents, and peers.

There is NOTHING wrong with D.O. I just feel more attractive to Medical programs and their curriculum (albeit they are extremely similar is most aspects.)

With that being said, I've got to move forward with a solid game-plan.

I understand my situation is not ideal, but I wholesomely believe with enough A's, the proper course work and time, I can get to M.D.

Perhaps not by the time I receive my B.S. - but it gives me hope to see those in similar situations overcome this.

I'm not defined by my Freshman year, and I believe Medical schools will see this.

Regardless - a 2.8 can be brought up drastically by three years. Most of it depends on my sGPA, therein lies the true challenge.

 

[chemguy79]

I think that you should establish a track record of success at one university before being concerned about getting accepted to a medical school, DO or MD, with a BS in *insert degree program here*.

 

[Holmwood]

Hello everyone! My name is Geno - I am a Sophomore majoring in Psychology.

I am what most people refer to as an academic "late-bloomer." My first year and half was riddled with poor grades (D's and C's, no F's thankfully) and a handful of withdraws.

My brother had passed away and I was going through some major life style changes. Since then I've reinstated my passion for education and discovered my dream to be a psychiatrist again.

I went from having a 1.9GPA first freshman semester, to a 2.8gpa currently - huge upward trend.

I haven't taken too many science related classes yet but I did manage to pull out a B+ in general chemistry this last year.

To further complicate matters, I've been to two different universities and one community college (I'm at now). There was a variety financial problems, nothing grade or performance related.

I would like advice to pursuing medical school. I understand my GPA needs to climb quite a bit more, but I am concerned that after I obtain my B.S. I will need to take a few more semesters to clear science credits - how do medical schools see this?

Any advice is appreciated

Step 1) Just focus on improving your GPA and slap on extracurriculars after that.
Step 2) Take the MCAT after sufficient study, then refer to these charts (choose your ethnicity: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html )
Step 3) If your MCAT - GPA combo isn't going to give you a very good chance at acceptance, you have two options.
-Apply to a DO school (less risky)
-Take a post-bac and apply to an MD school (more risky)


Further note:
-Be kind to those with constructive criticism.
-Take other people's success stories with a grain of salt. Underdog stories should give you hope, not assurance.

And bestest of luck. : )