Sad about med school v. babies

[MiesVanDerMom]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I know I am lucky to have two wonderful babies already, but I can't help feeling sad that I am going to have to wait 10 years to have any more. We really can't afford to have any more until I'm through residency and the thought of that long wait bums me out. Intellectually I accept it but emotionally, I'm still in denial. I think once med school starts I'll be so busy time will fly. But for now... I've got the baby blues. Anyone else? 🙁

 

[tacojohn]

I know I am lucky to have two wonderful babies already, but I can't help feeling sad that I am going to have to wait 10 years to have any more. We really can't afford to have any more until I'm through residency and the thought of that long wait bums me out. Intellectually I accept it but emotionally, I'm still in denial. I think once med school starts I'll be so busy time will fly. But for now... I've got the baby blues. Anyone else? 🙁

Christ! Two already! How many more do you want?!

 

[AngryBaby]

Christ! Two already! How many more do you want?!

Agreed, what's wrong with you woman?! 😉

We've got 1 (2 yrs old) and my wife wants another. I'm a reapplicant this year at an SMP program so obviously time and money is a problem. I think if we have another one it'll be no sooner than middle/end of 4th year. My wife's a little bummed, but she also wants to go back to school and/or work and with me finishing med school/starting residency I don't know how she thinks either of us is going to have time at that point. I think she also expects a 50/50 responsibility shouldering, which I would love but not bloody likely for at least 7 years...

Anyway you'll be able to provide a lot more for your 3rd child financially, but more importantly quality time, when all the craziness is finished. That help any??

 

[AngryBaby]

You want a 3rd child after a 32hr labor w/out an epidural?? You are crazy!!😱

 

[notdeadyet]

When I read the title of the thread, I was expecting news of some very weird lawsuit. What a letdown...

 

[trustwomen]

I know I am lucky to have two wonderful babies already, but I can't help feeling sad that I am going to have to wait 10 years to have any more. We really can't afford to have any more until I'm through residency and the thought of that long wait bums me out. Intellectually I accept it but emotionally, I'm still in denial. I think once med school starts I'll be so busy time will fly. But for now... I've got the baby blues. Anyone else? 🙁

I'm not going to be able to even start trying until after med school (family-friendliness will factor into my residency choices). I'll be nearly 34 when I graduate. Two would be great, one would be more realistic with that late start. It's not blues per se, I just hope it won't be too late for me. So I say count your blessings (two). 😉

More seriously, though, this will pass. We all make hard choices in life, and you may even find that you can afford more than you think during residency (why not take out an extra loan for childcare, for instance, knowing that as a doctor you will have no trouble paying it off?)

Sending positive vibes your way 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

There are women who have children in med school and residency, and I will most likely be one of them 🙂

Out of the 3 women doctors I shadowed, 2 of of them had children during residency. I didn't get to talk to the 3rd one in detail but it wouldn't surprise me. And this is neonatology where its a 3 year residency and 3 year fellowship.

You don't have to give up your life for med school. Many women balance it and I'm sure you'll find your way. I feel the same way about having kids. But I know when the time comes, I'll manage. Make sure your administration supports families though 🙂

 

[JimmyG]

Well, it's funny because I always teased my husband than when he graduated from law school (in May) that I would be mega-pregnant with our first child. Since I have made this decision in the past year to pursue medicine, my desire to have children right now has left me. It's funny because--since I live in a smaller southern town--and I'm not trying to be stereotypical at all--most of my friends who have children already do not really understand my desire to go back to, not just any school, but medical school. It has helped that neither my husband nor I feel ready to be parents yet. But it always weighs heavily on my mind how my idea of motherhood and being a physician will mesh... So, my plan is (and I learn quickly in life that MY plan isn't really the MAIN plan, so this is just my outline, I guess) that I will begin having children once I graduate. I will be 33 years old. No big deal, I feel. But, I do feel that my pains of possible motherhood will always be at the back of my mind as I go through school....

 

[1Path]

Nope, not me. Honestly, I don't understand why a woman who wants to be a doctor would have more than 2 kids IF she expects to have a reasonable balance between career and family life.

Unless of course, she opts to become a pathologist! 😉

 

[Tribeca]

I've been having the baby fever too. We don't have kids yet, but we want one so bad. The thing is, my OB already determined that my pregnancy will be a high-risk one due to my medical hx (getting pregnant is not the issue, staying pregnant is.) I'm still taking prereqs and still need to take the MCAT. I can't afford to not work/not be at school and I can't afford to risk everything I've already worked for if I do get pregnant and complications arise because of it. The only option is to wait until post-residency... which is about 10 years from now. Age is not an issue in my case, I just hate it that we have to wait so long.

Of course, it doesn't help that I met a medical transcriptionist who told me her story of how she had to drop out of her 1st year Baylor College of Medicine class because she got pregnant with triplets and got paralyzed due to complications. She's now probably in her late 40's, and she tells me, "look at me now, this is just what I do." Sad! 🙁

 

[chopper]

There are women who have children in med school and residency, and I will most likely be one of them 🙂

Out of the 3 women doctors I shadowed, 2 of of them had children during residency. I didn't get to talk to the 3rd one in detail but it wouldn't surprise me. And this is neonatology where its a 3 year residency and 3 year fellowship.

You don't have to give up your life for med school. Many women balance it and I'm sure you'll find your way. I feel the same way about having kids. But I know when the time comes, I'll manage. Make sure your administration supports families though 🙂

I've heard more than once from female physicians who gave talks on career choices that they wished they had their children in medical school.

My sister had her daughter over Christmas her first year.

And my wife and I just had our first (also over Xmas my 1st year). Different, since I am the one in school and she is not. It was definately a change, but we just love it.

Not saying that you should have children in med school, just realize that it can be done.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

When I read the title of the thread, I was expecting news of some very weird lawsuit. What a letdown...

funniest thing I've heard in a long time thanks, i needed that

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Nope, not me. Honestly, I don't understand why a woman who wants to be a doctor would have more than 2 kids IF she expects to have a reasonable balance between career and family life.

Unless of course, she opts to become a pathologist! 😉

I know a pathology resident that has a baby her second year of residency and happened to be placed in her bowel rotation during morning sickness! i couldn't even stand to change a diaper with morning sickness, but to be cutting open diseased bowels? She's a saint!

 

[mshheaddoc]

I plan on having at least 2, preferably 3, if not more. If you want to find a way, I firmly believe you will. Adoption is always an option too. We might consider that after we have a few of our own. We will be a 2 doctor household but thank goodness the hubby will have a 5 year start in the process. He will be making money to help support us through school/residency!!!

 

[jackieMD2007]

If I start school in 2007 as planned 🙂luck: : ), I will be 25 at that point. Four years later puts me at 29. I don't know if I would want to be pregnant when I first started residency, but I think the early thirties is just fine.

If we still don't feel like having children, maybe we'll adopt when we do. I need my husband to settle into being a lawyer (while still being an excellent husband) and for me to settle into being a medical student (while still being a loving wife) before we think about bringing someone else into the equation, so to speak. It doesn't hurt that we aren't really "kid" people to begin with.

But I do love little baby stuff. Not the baby. The baby stuff. The little shoes. The tiny teddy bears. The cute kids books. But being a parent is not all bedtime stories and giggles....

 

[Baby Einstein]

We have one already, I'm starting med school in 2 weeks. We want 2 more and we'll probably try to have them both while I'm in school. With epidural, thank you very much!!! I don't think we'll find any better time. But finances are not an issue here, luckily.

Ladies, be careful about putting your career dreams before your baby dreams. If it's very important to you to have biological children, and if you feel ready for children, don't wait too long. Unfortunately, mid-thirties is already on the late side to have your first child, and you could end up with major regrets. Highly educated, professional women have the highest rates of infertility... Good luck to all of you!

 

[Pemberley]

I've heard more than once from female physicians who gave talks on career choices that they wished they had their children in medical school.

I ask every female physician I meet about family, and I think every one of them has said that med school is just as easy or easier than residency -- although of course that's without the long bedrest situation that one poster described probably having to face.

 

[t33sg1rl]

I know I am lucky to have two wonderful babies already, but I can't help feeling sad that I am going to have to wait 10 years to have any more. We really can't afford to have any more until I'm through residency and the thought of that long wait bums me out. Intellectually I accept it but emotionally, I'm still in denial. I think once med school starts I'll be so busy time will fly. But for now... I've got the baby blues. Anyone else? 🙁

YES! I just finished my first year, and we have terrible baby blues. We really want to wait until graduation, though, so our children can have a stay-at-home mom, at least for the first year or two.

But like other people said, we're counting our lucky starts-one, that we have really cute nieces to play with in the meantime, and two, that I'll only be 28 when I finish, still plenty of eggs left hopefully. Although, I do get the monthly baby blues as another egg bites the dust!

 

[TypeA]

This has been on my mind a LOT lately. I am already 31. In post-bacc. When I began the process, I was worried that I was giving up the opportunity to be a mom (and my hubby's opportunity to be a dad) by chasing this dream. MY mentor argued enthusiastically against that notion. With her being an MD and a mom, I tend to listen. Adoption is definitely an option, but what I wouldn't give to have the body of a 21yo and the mind I have now. 😀 😳

 

[KeyLime]

I've been having a lot of anxiety about this lately also. I am married, and 25 and applying for fthe fall of 07. I don't want to be an "old mom," but I know myself well enough to know that if I ever had to chose between spending time with my baby vs. spending time studying, I would pick my baby. It is hard enough to study with a husband.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I've been having a lot of anxiety about this lately also. I am married, and 25 and applying for fthe fall of 07. I don't want to be an "old mom," but I know myself well enough to know that if I ever had to chose between spending time with my baby vs. spending time studying, I would pick my baby. It is hard enough to study with a husband.

amen sister. I hear you on ALL accounts of your post.

 

[1Path]

I plan on having at least 2, preferably 3, if not more. If you want to find a way, I firmly believe you will. !

Sure, people "find a way" and from reading the posts on Mommd, it usually involves: 1) giving up medicine completely or 2) convincing your husband to be a stay at home Dad.

I have yet to see a Mom who was Chief Trauma Surgeon at her insitution married to the Chairman of the Neurology dept with 4 kids, that managed to make every recital, graduation, bake cookies, ect. So that 2 high powered career thing hasn't worked from what I've observed in the 20 or so years I've been working in and around medicine. Of course, if you have a Nanny raise your kids and this is cool by you, then more power to you, but that's not even a slightest consideration outside of having a child with special needs for me.

I say take the easier way out and limit your excercising your womb, that way you won't potentially have to choose between family and career. In other words, be realistic! Superwoman should have been "retired" the day after we educated women created her!👍

 

[medanthgirl]

When I read the title of the thread, I was expecting news of some very weird lawsuit. What a letdown...

hahaha! that is so funny! let's see what could that case be...baby slandering a med school b/c they didn't let their mommy or daddy in?

 

[natsipoo]

Sure, people "find a way" and from reading the posts on Mommd, it usually involves: 1) giving up medicine completely or 2) convincing your husband to be a stay at home Dad.

http://www.trixieupdate.com
http://www.trixieupdate.com/archives/2003/07/index.php

Born in 1st year of Anesth. residency.

 

[medanthgirl]

for real though, i am 28 starting an smp program this fall and my worries about baybehs has been calmed by the fact that i have watched two incredible doctors with incredibly dynamic careers have 3 and 4 children respectively. the first is a medical oncologist with her own lab, and the second is a radiologist, researcher, and now director of a research center and dean. and maybe they don't make every single game or performance, but they go to 100% of the ones they can do, which i would say averaged out to about 70% for both. oh, and they both have multiple engagements constantly all over the country and both of their husbands are doctors too. i think the most important things i have learned are:

1) right after clinic/hospital all the time is spent with the kids. not at the gym, or spa, or shopping, or surfing the internet, or out with friends. if we think about our lifestyles now, i think we'd all have to admit this would take discipline too. if the parents want to do something fun, even like trips to europe or the beach, kids go too, they are not dropped off at grandma and grandpa's.
2) nannying isn't the only option. at the hospital residents and docs would combine kids and hire one person to care for like 4-5 kids in that caregiver's home. this is what a lot of people who had to do either b/c a) private nanny is too expensive or b) the childcare at the hospital's waitlist was too long
3) engaging with their kids and really being in the moment with them. so what if you are at home, if everybody's watching tv in their own room nothing is gained.

 

[1Path]

http://www.trixieupdate.com
http://www.trixieupdate.com/archives/2003/07/index.php

Born in 1st year of Anesth. residency.

Not sure what the point is and I'm to lazy to read all those posts in those links. Are you supporting my "don't have a bunch of kids and expect to balance that with a marriage to another Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief without tremendous sacrifice", usually on the kids or what?

If not, I can name all types of Holly Jolly on line stoires of women who clamied to have achieved tenure, and had 6 kids before 32, while married to an Inverstment Banker and ended up smilign on the cover of Happy Family magazine. 🙄 But what I don't see women talking about too much is how much the decision to have lots of kids and balance that with a demanding career has affected their family dynamics or career choices.

Like it or not, the burden of raising children falls on the Mom whether she's a waitress or dentist. All I'm suggesting is that women stop complaining about how the men in their lives don't for example, help them change diapers and stop "creating" more diapers to change. 😉

 

[1Path]

for real though, i am 28 starting an smp program this fall and my worries about baybehs has been calmed by the fact that i have watched two incredible doctors with incredibly dynamic careers have 3 and 4 children respectively. the first is a medical oncologist with her own lab, and the second is a radiologist, researcher, and now director of a research center and dean. 1) right after clinic/hospital all the time is spent with the kids. not at the gym, or spa, or shopping, or surfing the internet, or out with friends. if we think about our lifestyles now, i think we'd all have to admit this would take discipline too. if the parents want to do something fun, even like trips to europe or the beach, kids go too, they are not dropped off at grandma and grandpa's..

I simply no longer buy the stories of women with multiple kids, and high powered positions in medicine, especially those married other docs.

I say get back to me when those kids become teenagers! In the mean time, don't believe the hype!

Just curious, has anyone every wondered why some women in medicine have made the decision NOT to have children? I know it's easier to look at them as testicle busting anti man femimist but has occured to anyone that for them, NOT trying to balance medicine and motherhood is simply their way of being self-less? These women are to be admired!!!

As much as I hate to say it, I think to have any more than 3 kids in a high profile/demanding 2 career family on purpose is just plain selfish. And if you're in OB/Gyn or Surgery anything more than one is simply insane!!

 

[mshheaddoc]

Who says you need to be high powered position in medicine? You're going for the fame and fortune when I'm going for working (maybe even part time at one point) at a hospital, maybe even a clinic. There are specialties in which you can make things work, surgery really isn't one of them. Good thing surgery was scratched off my list when I started this endeavor for that exact reason. Its too time consuming.

I understand your viewpoint about children (expressed on this thread and others) but that is exactly all it is. Your viewpoint. Some of us differ in experiences (and maybe even specialties). Yes you will need some help along the way but it can be done. If you don't want to "buy it", no problem. But you don't need to bash the women that are actually succeeding at doing it. 2 of the neonatologists I shadowed come from a "doctor" family (both spouses are physicians) and one has 2 kids (that I know of, she might have a 3rd) the other I know has 3, and both mothers are q4 during the week and one weekend a month. One of the husbands also works q4 too (he's a neonatologist as well). Its tough but they find a way to make it work. It comes with the territory trying to balance any career and family life. You can be pessimistic or optimistic. Some of us choose the latter, you are choosing the former. But that is your viewpoint.

Its not selfish to have a career and a family. Medicine is NOT the only career where I have seen people sacrifice for the family. Medicine is not the beginning of the world and its not the end of the world.

 

[Beau Geste]

Who says you need to be high powered position in medicine? You're going for the fame and fortune when I'm going for working (maybe even part time at one point) at a hospital, maybe even a clinic. There are specialties in which you can make things work, surgery really isn't one of them. Good thing surgery was scratched off my list when I started this endeavor for that exact reason. Its too time consuming.

I understand your viewpoint about children (expressed on this thread and others) but that is exactly all it is. Your viewpoint. Some of us differ in experiences (and maybe even specialties). Yes you will need some help along the way but it can be done. If you don't want to "buy it", no problem. But you don't need to bash the women that are actually succeeding at doing it. 2 of the neonatologists I shadowed come from a "doctor" family (both spouses are physicians) and one has 2 kids (that I know of, she might have a 3rd) the other I know has 3, and both mothers are q4 during the week and one weekend a month. One of the husbands also works q4 too (he's a neonatologist as well). Its tough but they find a way to make it work. It comes with the territory trying to balance any career and family life. You can be pessimistic or optimistic. Some of us choose the latter, you are choosing the former. But that is your viewpoint.

Its not selfish to have a career and a family. Medicine is NOT the only career where I have seen people sacrifice for the family. Medicine is not the beginning of the world and its not the end of the world.

👍 👍 👍

I'm lucky enough to have a husband who would like to be a stay-at-jome dad, or at least work part-time.

However, I've been through having 2 parents with high-demand jobs. My mother went to med school when I was 10 and did her B.S. when I was 6-10 years of age. She finished med school when I was 14 and did residency when I was 14-17. She had to live 3 years 200 miles from us for M2-4 and 3 days a week in another city for her 3-year residency. My dad is and was a CRNA with call 1 in 2.

My mom and I are very close to this day and i don't resent her for her choices. It was OTHER people that made her feel bad for "leaving" her family for a career. My dad, myself and my brother were happy with her choice. Sure we missed her when she wasn't home, but we never felt unloved or left out. We made sacrifices as a family and it was just the way it was.

So what if having 3 or more kids isn't for you. So what if a high-powered female doctor is married to a man with a high-powered career! Their children have just as much chance at turning out normal as anyone.

It's nice to see what everyone plans to do, but be careful not to put down the family choices that other women make, because chances are, their family is fine and YOU are being judgmental.

 

[1Path]

Medicine is NOT the only career where I have seen people sacrifice for the family.

This is student DOCTOR network, right? You COMPLETELY missed the ENTIRE point of my posts!

Listen I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the choices women make. What I HATE to see is women make these choices then BITCH about how hard life is. Well duh? If you knew you wanted to be a surgeon why did YOU have the 4 babies in the first place? Not only that these choices adversly affect those women like myself who would really LOVE to have six kids, but choose to use a little commen sense and just a have few. Right or wrong, future emploeyers will judge me on the choices OTHER women docs make and I'd personally like to see them make more realistic choices so that ALL women can enjoy work/family life.

PS-One person's "judgemental" is another persons "telling it like it is". Women need to stop being so "soft" when an opinion different from their "Lolly Pop world view" is being given.

 

[Beau Geste]

This is student DOCTOR network, right? You COMPLETELY missed the ENTIRE point of my posts!

Listen I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the choices women make. What I HATE to see is women make these choices then BITCH about how hard life is. Well duh? If you knew you wanted to be a surgeon why did YOU have the 4 babies in the first place? Not only that their self-centered choices adverly affect those women like myself who would really LOVE to have six kids, but choose to use a little commen sense and just a have few. Right or wrong, future emploeyers will judge me on the choices OTHER women docs make and I'd personally like to see them make more realistic choices so that ALL women can enjoy work/family life.

PS-One person's "judgemental" is another persons "telling it like it is". Women need to stop being so "soft" when an opinion different from their "Lolly Pop world view" is being given.

Everyone complains about their life. I don't know anyone who doesn't. If the kids were neglected I would consider it self-centered to have 6 kids. But, I applaud parents who can handle big families despite their jobs.

Somehow women are able to get good medical jobs, so I wouldn't worry about your potential employer judging you based on Sally Smith's lifestyle.

 

[1Path]

Everyone complains about their life. I don't know anyone who doesn't. .

Complaining versus Bitching. 2 different ideas. I see male docs bitch about life as a doctor but I rarely see them quit. But when I see women bitch, they quit. Now why is that? Surely, a man's contributuon to raising a family is just as valuable as a woman's right? So why don't HIS choices result in him quiting medicine altogther? THEY have 6 kids, but SHE'S the one who has to work the reduced load or not work altoghter? How could she have avoided this situation?

1) NOT HAVING 6 KIDS!!!!
2) Choosing a medical specility that would better accomadate a large family(when you guys think of one, please list it!)

What I see in this generation of young women is you want to have it all. Well news flash ladies, it ain't going to happen. Then you go to these surgical residencies and want to look for part-time options so you can take care of the 2 kids you had in med school and the 2 you had before? Gimmie a break! 🙄

 

[McMD]

I am going to start medical school in a week and a half, was all moved into my new city/new apartment, and got baby fever so bad that I have been considering not going to medical school for the past 2 weeks. At this current second, I am planning on going to school in a week...and I think that's what is going to happen. My husband will be working while I'm in school-he is a rescue swimmer in the Navy right now and gets out next May-so my first year of school we will be long distance (he will be in Iraq). After first year, he will move down and find a job. Since he does not have a college degree and is pretty particular in what he wants to do, I'm not expecting him to make a ridiculous amount of money..just enough to pay the bills with a little left over. With that being said, we've "planned" on getting pregnant around 3rd year and delivering 4th-but now I am so worried that we will not have the financial freedom to do this. We can take care of things like diapers, clothing, etc...but we would have to have childcare for our baby since my husband would be working and I would be on rotations...and that is what I'm afraid we won't have the financial freedom to do. I have never considered my career choice affecting my ability to have children, I just assumed "I can do it all"....but now that medical school is so close, I am so afraid. We'll see how everything works itself out! If my husband weren't going to Iraq, I'd probably try to get pregnant now and deliver next summer...that would be perfect!

 

[NonTradMed]

My mom and I are very close to this day and i don't resent her for her choices. It was OTHER people that made her feel bad for "leaving" her family for a career. My dad, myself and my brother were happy with her choice. Sure we missed her when she wasn't home, but we never felt unloved or left out. We made sacrifices as a family and it was just the way it was.

So what if having 3 or more kids isn't for you. So what if a high-powered female doctor is married to a man with a high-powered career! Their children have just as much chance at turning out normal as anyone.

It's nice to see what everyone plans to do, but be careful not to put down the family choices that other women make, because chances are, their family is fine and YOU are being judgmental.

That was my life too. My mother and I are very close to this day but society made her feel bad about 'leaving' her family to work and that guilty seeped through our homelife. People are judgemental because they want to justify their own choices. My mother was also judgemental about others' choices because she wanted to affirm that she was a good mother to me even though she wasn't there to bake cookies and paint pictures with me. That's why I hesitate to say working mom or SAHM mom is good or bad because each can produce wonderful and horrible kids.

As for balancing a successful medical career with family....yes, it is hard, but it's doable as long as you have a understanding and helpful spouse and not a lot of kids. The more kids you have and/or the more demanding your spouse's career is, the harder is it for you to achieve that success. However, it's all relative. What may seem like a lot of kids to one person may be doable to another. What may constitute success for one person may be failure for another. I won't be shooting for the Chief of Surgery or anything but I want a successful practice and a couple of kids. I also dont' care to get a doctor for a husband. Just someone smart and helpful around the house is fine. Is that 'having it all'? Yes it is. I have a career and family....isn't that what 'having it all' means? Is it doable? Well, for some people, it may not be feasible, but my mom did it, my grandma did it, so it would behoove me to not try to carry on the family tradition. 😀

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

I am going to start medical school in a week and a half, was all moved into my new city/new apartment, and got baby fever so bad that I have been considering not going to medical school for the past 2 weeks. At this current second, I am planning on going to school in a week...and I think that's what is going to happen. My husband will be working while I'm in school-he is a rescue swimmer in the Navy right now and gets out next May-so my first year of school we will be long distance (he will be in Iraq). After first year, he will move down and find a job. Since he does not have a college degree and is pretty particular in what he wants to do, I'm not expecting him to make a ridiculous amount of money..just enough to pay the bills with a little left over. With that being said, we've "planned" on getting pregnant around 3rd year and delivering 4th-but now I am so worried that we will not have the financial freedom to do this. We can take care of things like diapers, clothing, etc...but we would have to have childcare for our baby since my husband would be working and I would be on rotations...and that is what I'm afraid we won't have the financial freedom to do. I have never considered my career choice affecting my ability to have children, I just assumed "I can do it all"....but now that medical school is so close, I am so afraid. We'll see how everything works itself out! If my husband weren't going to Iraq, I'd probably try to get pregnant now and deliver next summer...that would be perfect!

Oh I feel you! Good luck starting school and being away from your hubby

 

[1Path]

As for balancing a successful medical career with family....yes, it is hard, but it's doable as long as you have a understanding and helpful spouse and not a lot of kids. The more kids you have and/or the more demanding your spouse's career is, the harder is it for you to achieve that success. However, it's all relative. What may seem like a lot of kids to one person may be doable to another. What may constitute success for one person may be failure for another. I won't be shooting for the Chief of Surgery or anything but I want a successful practice and a couple of kids. I also dont' care to get a doctor for a husband. Just someone smart and helpful around the house is fine. Is that 'having it all'? Yes it is. I have a career and family....isn't that what 'having it all' means? Is it doable? Well, for some people, it may not be feasible, but my mom did it, my grandma did it, so it would behoove me to not try to carry on the family tradition. 😀

GREAT post! ALL I'm suggesting is for women to be realistic when making these types of choices! I also come from a family of working women (not many decendants of slaves had SAHM's) and those who did it best did NOT have a a lot of kids.

However, I disagree somewhat that the number of kids you have is relative. EVERY child you have is going to need support and it's likely that each child's needs will be different. OTOH, one very "difficult" child could seem like 3 to another person and since science hasn't progressed to the point where we can select certain traits in our children, it's best to err on the side of caution and adopt the "less is more" attitude when it comes to balancing demanding careers and motherhood.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

That was my life too. My mother and I are very close to this day but society made her feel bad about 'leaving' her family to work and that guilty seeped through our homelife. People are judgemental because they want to justify their own choices. My mother was also judgemental about others' choices because she wanted to affirm that she was a good mother to me even though she wasn't there to bake cookies and paint pictures with me. That's why I hesitate to say working mom or SAHM mom is good or bad because each can produce wonderful and horrible kids.

As for balancing a successful medical career with family....yes, it is hard, but it's doable as long as you have a understanding and helpful spouse and not a lot of kids. The more kids you have and/or the more demanding your spouse's career is, the harder is it for you to achieve that success. However, it's all relative. What may seem like a lot of kids to one person may be doable to another. What may constitute success for one person may be failure for another. I won't be shooting for the Chief of Surgery or anything but I want a successful practice and a couple of kids. I also dont' care to get a doctor for a husband. Just someone smart and helpful around the house is fine. Is that 'having it all'? Yes it is. I have a career and family....isn't that what 'having it all' means? Is it doable? Well, for some people, it may not be feasible, but my mom did it, my grandma did it, so it would behoove me to not try to carry on the family tradition. 😀

my mom was a full time SAHM and she felt guilty about not bringing in income and was always (still does) putting herself down and saying she was not very smart. it's no-win!

i also think, in reference to path's comments, if women are quitting over the conflict of family/work the problem might be the workplace, not the women. Half of medical students are now women. We want families, so why can't we change the way residencies are run? I shadowed a surgery resident who told me he only saw his kids twice a month. Why is this acceptable? The working world is designed in a way that punishes women for taking time out in their fertile years to stay home with small kids. why? most women are working outside the home these days and it's time for society to make some changes.

i really appreciate the stories of those of you raised by doctor moms 😍 it makes me feel better.

ETA: I understand path's point is for women RIGHT NOW to be realistic, but I wanted to raise the above point anyway

 

[mshheaddoc]

I didn't miss your point. But I don't know many women that regretted having children and balancing a career. Its hard and everyone has to vent. You keep talking about surgery. They bring it on themselves if they think they'll have the time for everything. Then you generalize to the rest of the medical profession.

You always have a very strong opinion on here which is a refreshing outlook. You tell it straight how you see it. Sugar coating doesn't bring out the best in people. But your incessant negative attitude about women with families in medicine is a little disconcerting. I'm guessing somewhere along the line you've seen people get burned, or maybe get burned yourself. Yeah, **** happens. But not all women are like that and I'm sure not all women are judged. Some of us DO have common sense and can realize our limitations.

6 kids isn't the average; 2-3 are. If they don't realize that they shouldn't be having 6 kids while working 80 hr weeks, then I don't know what you can do to prevent them. Same thing of why some people feel the need to have kids at age 16 then proceed to have 7 by the age of 24. But that isn't the point. If you want to keep it strictly to medicine, most women I know are sensible about it. Some might have better support structures than others. Some are in demanding specialities, some aren't. Women vary all across the globe, medicine or not. Not all women can be superwoman, and it seems to me that you are either expecting them to be or just not to have kids at all.

We are only human and trying to balance out life for women and work has been a challenge but i'm sure most women who love their job wouldn't change anything about their family or their job. We are still having to break through the stereotypes of "housewife" unfortunately. But going to the "other" extreme really isn't going to help the cause either.

MiesVanDerMom has a great point about maybe its not the mother as much as it is the job. But I'm sure that someone might come out and say well maybe they couldn't handle the job. Every job isn't a perfect fit for everyone.

 

[Beau Geste]

I didn't miss your point. But I don't know many women that regretted having children and balancing a career. Its hard and everyone has to vent. You keep talking about surgery. They bring it on themselves if they think they'll have the time for everything. Then you generalize to the rest of the medical profession.

You always have a very strong opinion on here which is a refreshing outlook. You tell it straight how you see it. Sugar coating doesn't bring out the best in people. But your incessant negative attitude about women with families in medicine is a little disconcerting. I'm guessing somewhere along the line you've seen people get burned, or maybe get burned yourself. Yeah, **** happens. But not all women are like that and I'm sure not all women are judged. Some of us DO have common sense and can realize our limitations.

6 kids isn't the average; 2-3 are. If they don't realize that they shouldn't be having 6 kids while working 80 hr weeks, then I don't know what you can do to prevent them. Same thing of why some people feel the need to have kids at age 16 then proceed to have 7 by the age of 24. But that isn't the point. If you want to keep it strictly to medicine, most women I know are sensible about it. Some might have better support structures than others. Some are in demanding specialities, some aren't. Women vary all across the globe, medicine or not. Not all women can be superwoman, and it seems to me that you are either expecting them to be or just not to have kids at all.

We are only human and trying to balance out life for women and work has been a challenge but i'm sure most women who love their job wouldn't change anything about their family or their job. We are still having to break through the stereotypes of "housewife" unfortunately. But going to the "other" extreme really isn't going to help the cause either.

MiesVanDerMom has a great point about maybe its not the mother as much as it is the job. But I'm sure that someone might come out and say well maybe they couldn't handle the job. Every job isn't a perfect fit for everyone.

This is basically what I wanted to say in my earlier posts. Thanks.

 

[1Path]

I didn't miss your point. But I don't know many women that regretted having children and balancing a career. But your incessant negative attitude about women with families in medicine is a little disconcerting. .

You continue to want to miss read what I'm saying and that is YOUR right. And your determination that I'm being neagtive is just plain pathetic as is frequently the case around here when I, AS A WOMAN express my views is a way that makes my skirt blow up. Get over it. I've got clean undies on!!!

Some of us DO have common sense and can realize our limitations.

If what I'm saying doens't apply to you, then why respond to what I'm saying?

Lets' get real here. WOMEN have to take responsibilites for THEMSELVES and whining and moaning about how hard life is when you have 3 kids under 6 as on Ob/Gyn in a practice with only 2 doctors is illogical. The time to make these tough choices is NOW, BEFORE you get swamped with life. That's what my viewpoint here is all about.

Now maybe your defensivesness is due in part to some mistakes YOU may have made. What do you want someone here to say, having more than 2 kids is a piece of cake as a doctor? No woman no matter what her career is, thinks that! So I guess it's easier for you to assume that those who disagree with you have been burned themselves which is pretty narrow thinking. I haven't been burned in the least and I've spent most of motherhood as a single parent. But during the time I was single, I was SMART enough NOT to take on too much and to be very methodical about planning my "premed" life, espeically since I gave up a very promising and lucrative career as a scientist to pursue medicine. Even now as a Mom whose lack of current or future income has no bearing on my families financial bottom line, I still use basic common sense to drive my decision making progress as far as medical study is concerned.

Finally, someone mentioned 2 doctor families. Well does ANYONE care to recall that 2 doctor families have the HIGHEST divorce rates of ANY other career couples? Ever wonder why? 2 words... NO BRAINER!!!!!

 

[-Lexi-]

I'm nowhere near old enough to be thinking about babies but I was thinking about the future the other day. It does have me down that I'll have to wait so long to think about a family. I told my boyfriend if he ever plans on marrying me we better get it done in that one year break between my bachelor's and med school. I'm already over-scheduling things

 

[mshheaddoc]

I'd like to bring up the point mentioned earlier about miesvandermom:

why? most women are working outside the home these days and it's time for society to make some changes.

How would you address this to society? Being a mother and a career woman, can you balance? I suppose I will be relying on hired help or as someone mentioned chilcare pools. I hope to go into a specialty of shift work which might alleviate some issues. Or so one would hope.

 

[Beau Geste]

If what I'm saying doens't apply to you, then why respond to what I'm saying?

this probably doesn't apply to ANY of us here since none of us wants 6 kids and to have double high-powered career household. So should none of us reply? Seriously, you need to calm down about this. As a free internet forum, mushy and anyone else has the right to respond just as much as you have the right to vent. If you're going to put it out there, expect someone to respond!

Lets' get real here. WOMEN have to take responsibilites for THEMSELVES and whining and moaning about how hard life is when you have 3 kids under 6 as on Ob/Gyn in a practice with only 2 doctors is illogical. The time to make these tough choices is NOW, BEFORE you get swamped with life. That's what my viewpoint here is all about.

Sounds like you've had some negative experiences with a woman with 6 kids who is an OB/GYN in a 2-physician practice. But "let's get real here" - how often is that REALLY going to happen, or are you just venting because you came across it ONCE? In the spirit of "being real" there are other things that could make life "swamped" besides medicine - death of a spouse, parent, severe debt, among other things, some of which are not preventable. Should people just not have more than 2 kids because something *might* happen in life to make you stressed and overloaded? Please.

Now maybe your defensivesness is due in part to some mistakes YOU may have made. What do you want someone here to say, having more than 2 kids is a piece of cake as a doctor? No woman no matter what her career is, thinks that! So I guess it's easier for you to assume that those who disagree with you have been burned themselves which is pretty narrow thinking. I haven't been burned in the least and I've spent most of motherhood as a single parent. But during the time I was single, I was SMART enough NOT to take on too much and to be very methodical about planning my "premed" life, espeically since I gave up a very promising and lucrative career as a scientist to pursue medicine. Even now as a Mom whose lack of current or future income has no bearing on my families financial bottom line, I still use basic common sense to drive my decision making progress as far as medical study is concerned.

I applaud you for handling you single mother-ship well, but it's going to be rough while in med school and people will hate on you like you're hating on mothers with > 3 kids. MY defensiveness is that you sound like everyone else that attacked MY mom while in med school, but had no idea that our family unit was, in fact, stable. Sure, she probably complained, but that's life (still being real here). People complain to their co-workers and friends about family problems all the time.

No one ever said having children and being a doctor is a piece of cake. I'ts a life adjustment for mothers who are doctors, but they get through it. And they would probably get through it a lot easier if people like you weren't giving them a hard time. No, your opinion isn't going to make or break them, but words and attitude hurt.

I'm sure you don't want people judging you for being a single mom, so show a little courtesy. Your bad experience shouldn't be generalized to everyone else trying to raise a family and get on with life.

Finally, someone mentioned 2 doctor families. Well does ANYONE care to recall that 2 doctor families have the HIGHEST divorce rates of ANY other career couples? Ever wonder why? 2 words... NO BRAINER!!!!!

My parents are still married after 32 years. Granted my dad is a CRNA, not an MD/DO, but his lifestyle is the same (call, job). They are more in love now than ever and loving life.

But I guess that doesn't count, does it, because you're only looking at statistics? Why don't we tell people not to go into dentistry because (supposedly) it has a high suicide rate?

Oh, and guess what? My husband and I are both divorced from previous spouses, and we weren't in medicine. I'd like to see those statistics.

 

[1Path]

If you're going to put it out there, expect someone to respond!

I don't jump down peoples throat when they make comments that don't apply to me. Doing so, makes one a megab*tch.

Should people just not have more than 2 kids because something *might* happen in life to make you stressed and overloaded? Please.

Female premed students/med students/residents who THINK they may want to go into a labor intensive medical specality like Surgery, OB/Gyn, or Oncology should THINK, THINK,THINK about how doing so is going to work with their other idea of having more than 2 kids. THATS ALL I"M TRYING TO SAY!!!!!!!! If you could step off your feminist high hourse you could see that FAMILY PLANNING makes good COMMON SENSE!!!!! I am MUCH more than my ovaries, why aren't you?

I applaud you for handling you single mother-ship well, but it's going to be rough while in med school and people will hate on you like you're hating on mothers with > 3 kids. MY defensiveness is that you sound like everyone else that attacked MY mom while in med school, but had no idea that our family unit was, in fact, stable. Sure, she probably complained, but that's life (still being real here). People complain to their co-workers and friends about family problems all the time.....I'm sure you don't want people judging you for being a single mom, so show a little courtesy.

1) FYI, I am no longer single and was previously married JUST LIKE YOU!. 😀

2) ANY Mom who goes to med school with more than 3 kids is a saint. However, that doesn't mean that their decision to do so was "smart" because to many people it isn't. OTOH, the Mom who decided NOT to go to med school because she had 3 kids is a saint as is the Mom who decided that 1 kid was enough for a 2 doctor family. So is the women who decides to have NO kids and become a doctor. It wasn't wise to many people that I consider MD/PhD when I WAS a single parent, I don't let that stop me. To hell with hurt feelings, that's what a supportive family and friends are for. Once again, this is about young women THINKING, THINKING, THINKING very carefully about their choices when it comes to motherhood.
3) Franky, I think If I REALLY gave a dam about what other people think of me or my goals, I would have given up on my goals a long time ago. I'm an African American female pursuing a goal where less than .001% of all graduates look like me. Do you REALLY think I care what people think?

 

[1Path]

I'm sure you don't want people judging you for being a single mom, so show a little courtesy. Your bad experience shouldn't be generalized to everyone else trying to raise a family and get on with life.

I've gotta address this, why would people judge me for being a single Mom? Are you ASSuming because I used the term "single Mom", I wasn't previously married and is THIS the bad expereicne you're referring to? I'll refrain from further comment until you address this so as not to make ASSumptions too but trust me if you're thinking/assuming what I think you're thinking/assuming, this is going to get SUPER ugly!!!

 

[mshheaddoc]

1Path, CHILL. You tend to get overhyped and very passionate about your threads. She was making a valid point about people who judge single mothers. I'm sure you know the people who she is talking about. I can envision them and I'm sure you can too. She didn't say she was judging you but you are assuming she was judging you. Everyone gets judged in this world, sad but true. I'm sure it wasn't meant as a personal attack on you.

You keep arguing the same points which is great but its not bringing much to this thread. Hence why most people have stopped responding to your posts. We get what you are saying, some of us just disagree with your thought process.


So back to the topic at hand, anyone else have any thoughts they'd like to share on this non-threatening thread? 😀

 

[McMD]

Oh I feel you! Good luck starting school and being away from your hubby

Thanks MiesVanDerMom!

As far as the 2-doctor household having the highest divorce rate...I think that's all relative. I know many many 2-doctor households doing WONDERFULLY...usually the ones that *I've seen* make it are the ones that work together in a practice and therefore get to see each other all the time and then when they get home-it's all about their kids. My uncle is a physician, married to another physician and they have 5 kids. They do wonderfully together.

Luckily, my husband is going to be a SAHD...so once I start practicing, that will alleviate much of the stress I have about raising kids and being a physician.

 

[1Path]

1Path, CHILL. You tend to get overhyped and very passionate about your threads. She was making a valid point about people who judge single mothers. I'm sure you know the people who she is talking about. I can envision them and I'm sure you can too. She didn't say she was judging you but you are assuming she was judging you. Everyone gets judged in this world, sad but true. I'm sure it wasn't meant as a personal attack on you.

Here we go again. 🙄 Other folks can defend their positions and that wasn't a personal attack? Whatever. We know what she meant by that single parent comment which has what place in this thread exactly OTHER than as a sly ass attempt at a judgement call? THAT was a judgement and all I'd like to know is how much being African American played a role in it. I'm thinking about 1000%.

So pass those chill pills along and take a few yourself! 😉

 

[jackieMD2007]

Um....(cowering, looking around..)

I just wanted to point out that whenever I talk with any of my good friends that have kids, and I mention that I only want to have one child, if at all--I get this huge guilt trip from them about how it is SELFISH on MY part to only have one child, because then the kid wouldn't have a sibling or whatever. What gives there? I mean, if my husband is a lawyer (he's taking the bar today, hee) and I'm in a career as a doctor, and we do have a child, I want to focus on quality, not quantity. (By saying this is I am not dissing those who have multiple children, but, rather, reflecting on my own potential parenting skills.)

Some of my friends who have two+ children sometimes get really hectic because between them and their spouse the ratio is 2 parents to 2 children, or 2 parents to 3-4 children. I don't see what's wrong about 2 parents to 1 child. That way you can run a "zone" defense as opposed to man-to-man. We could give our one child a lot more attention. I don't see how that is me being selfish. I'm trying to THINK OF the child in terms of how much time we're going to have to spend with it--and if we have two children, that individual one-on-one time is split into two.

Thoughts? Someone reassure me that I'm not being selfish? That being an only child isn't a death sentence?

(Now watch me get pregnant with twins someday... )

 

[berlfe03]

Boy, do I feel ya JackieMD, I got married two years ago, and I cannot tell you how many times I hear, "So, when are you guys going to start a family?" Personally, I think that is very rude to ask someone. When I tell them we do not plan of having any, you should see the looks I get. I have actually seen people recoil in horror! Of course I have been told how selfish I am. 🙄 You know what, this is the way I look at it, you only get one life, do what you want to make it a rich, forfilling, happy life, and to hell with what anyone thinks!