Sadly Uninformed Premed Students...

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Its funny Bleg because the meat of my response to what you said was about how you are going to relate and respond to patients who abuse alcohol/drugs...and guess what you didn't respond. See in Medical School we learn that you CANNOT let your biases effect the medical care you render and if you plan on being a good physician, you might want to try and address why you feel so strongly about the things you spoke of. No one says you're not allowed to disagree but as vehemently as you did worries me that you may in fact not know how to leave your biases behind. It's funny because you are about one step away from claiming that because someone has smoked pot they can no longer be a good physician. Go sell your BS somewhere else
 
Someone mentioned that the person in the OP was selling Marijuana. I realize now that i failed to mention the drug. This person was dealing ecstacy and LSD, not merely MJ. Perhaps this sheds further enlightenment into my astonishment.

Well, shoot. That's a whole different kettle of fish.

Still not at the crack to kindergardeners level (heck with crack we're all kindergardeners), but that's a pretty substantial problem.
 
My wife of 22 years will be relieved to hear that.



My five children will be shocked to know.



Because no reasonable adult can possibly hold an opinion different from yours. Right?

What do you do? there is no way in hell your a physician so again we all question your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
 
Its funny Bleg because the meat of my response to what you said was about how you are going to relate and respond to patients who abuse alcohol/drugs...and guess what you didn't respond. See in Medical School we learn that you CANNOT let your biases effect the medical care you render and if you plan on being a good physician, you might want to try and address why you feel so strongly about the things you spoke of. No one says you're not allowed to disagree but as vehemently as you did worries me that you may in fact not know how to leave your biases behind. It's funny because you are about one step away from claiming that because someone has smoked pot they can no longer be a good physician. Go sell your BS somewhere else

😕 Yeahbut... in the hospital where I worked, the physicians still addressed drug use, even smoking pot, as a potentially harmful health behavior. I mean, they didn't refuse to treat someone seizing from a drug overdose if that's what you're trying to say, but they didn't address drug use (yes, even pot smoking) as though it was a completely "normal", acceptable behavior with no consequences.
 
😕 Yeahbut... in the hospital where I worked, the physicians still addressed drug use, even smoking pot, as a potentially harmful health behavior. I mean, they didn't refuse to treat someone seizing from a drug overdose if that's what you're trying to say, but they didn't address drug use (yes, even pot smoking) as though it was a completely "normal", acceptable behavior with no consequences.

You must be crazy if you think that's what I'm implying. What I'm saying is that this poster, Bleg, calls pot smoking socially abhorrent behavior. How can you on one end call it socially abhorrent (extremely strong word choice by the way) yet empathize with the patient to maybe make some changes? When did I ever say or even intimate that Doc's don't address habits that might be destructive? All I said is removing bias is paramount to providing excellent care---You can't care for an alcoholic in a way deemed "well" if you have a subconscious bias because your dad was an abusive alcoholic, and you now assume all alcoholics must be bad people....
 
Do you wander this forum looking for mean, unnecessarily judgmental, and generally deuschy things to say. From what I have read it would appear so. My judgment, in this case, is entirely justified. The kid illegally sells drugs, uses drugs, and fails his classes. He is in control of his actions and based upon these actions the above inferences are entirely warranted 🙂


If being told not to judge someone is your idea of "mean," then you need to get out of medicine immediately. In fact, just hole yourself up in your house and never leave, because you can't handle the real world if this is your idea of "mean." I didn't insult you, berate you, or act otherwise rudely toward you.

You are never justified in judging someone else - frankly, it's none of your business what he does with his life. A D in a class doesn't necessarily mean he'll never get into medical school. Maybe the uninformed pre-med here is you.
 
What do you do? there is no way in hell your a physician so again we all question your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.

Why? Because I don't agree with your thinking, therefore I cannot be a physician? Because I don't agree with your opinions, therefore I lack "understanding of the issues at hand"? Not very convincing logic.

But in fact, I am not (yet) a physician. What I "do" is irrelevant; for whatever it's worth, I am a professional in the computer industry.
 
You are never justified in judging someone else - frankly, it's none of your business what he does with his life.

Christina, this is an absurd position. An intelligent human being spends his or her life judging other people -- their ability, their comprehension, their fitness to perform certain tasks. Doctors do this, too. You are doing it in your railing response. And if you are a doctor, you make it your business to know what your patients do and how it affects them. This includes telling your patients to take responsibility for their actions, to use condoms so as not to spread their diseases to others, to quit eating so much and lose weight, etc.
 
What I'm saying is that this poster, Bleg, calls pot smoking socially abhorrent behavior. How can you on one end call it socially abhorrent (extremely strong word choice by the way) yet empathize with the patient to maybe make some changes?

So in your little world, it is impossible for a person to identify an abhorrent behavior for what it is and yet still empathize with those who exhibit this behavior? I think you need to get a little life experience, friend. As a father and simply as a human being, I spend my life identifying bad behaviors and even naming them as such, yet still being empathetic and supportive to those seeking to change.
 
Why? Because I don't agree with your thinking, therefore I cannot be a physician? Because I don't agree with your opinions, therefore I lack "understanding of the issues at hand"? Not very convincing logic.

But in fact, I am not (yet) a physician. What I "do" is irrelevant; for whatever it's worth, I am a professional in the computer industry.

No but no physician I know has that attitude...and if you want to make it in medicine neither will you. Just because your 47 and haven't attended medical school doesn't somehow make you opinion wrong, everyone has a right to their own opinion. What makes your opinion wrong is how strongly worded it was. No one will fault you for being against illegal drug use. Calling it socially abhorrent and then claiming that no "good" person or physician will have done this? Ya I call that wrong.
 
Christina, this is an absurd position. An intelligent human being spends his or her life judging other people -- their ability, their comprehension, their fitness to perform certain tasks. Doctors do this, too. You are doing it in your railing response. And if you are a doctor, you make it your business to know what your patients do and how it affects them. This includes telling your patients to take responsibility for their actions, to use condoms so as not to spread their diseases to others, to quit eating so much and lose weight, etc.

You don't have the right to rail about whose lifestyle is right/wrong according to your own personal beliefs, either. As a doctor, it's something you have to keep to yourself or just avoid altogether, because it's none of your business . And this is just a classmate of hers, not her patient. She has no right to judge him because she doesn't approve.

Even if what a patient is doing is "unhealthy" or otherwise destructive, you can't force them to change and dwelling on it/whining about it on the internet is fruitless. It well get you nowhere. All you can do is inform them about the negative effects of said actions and move on. If they take your advice, great. If not, that's their problem. End of story.
 
I keep saying it over and over again but its your strong wording that is particularly worrisome for me. I don't know any physician who has this attitude regardless of how they feel about marijuana use. By the way, I think somebody using crystal meth, heroin, cocaine is making a poor decision. Concretely saying they are a bad person? I don't think I cant make that claim...but I would love for you to try
 
Its funny Bleg because the meat of my response to what you said was about how you are going to relate and respond to patients who abuse alcohol/drugs...and guess what you didn't respond.

Perhaps that's because your statement was so utterly absurd and brainless that I thought it not worth responding to, figuring that anyone with half a brain could immediately see the vapidity of your ridiculous claim. Or maybe I was just trying to avoid your iron grip of reason. You can decide which.

See in Medical School we learn that you CANNOT let your biases effect the medical care you render

Perchance you mean "affect"?

and if you plan on being a good physician, you might want to try and address why you feel so strongly about the things you spoke of.

I feel strongly about the truth and about the willingness of people to face the truth. This is not a weakness, however much you might think it to be. On the contrary, I am confident that any physician worth his or her salt keeps a strong ethical and moral code.

No one says you're not allowed to disagree but as vehemently as you did worries me that you may in fact not know how to leave your biases behind.

Ah. I didn't talk nicely enough in an SDN forum to suit your politically correct ears, so therefore I'm not empathetic enough to be a good physician.

Your logic (such as it is) astounds me.

It's funny because you are about one step away from claiming that because someone has smoked pot they can no longer be a good physician.

Just curious: How did your score on the verbal comprehension portion of the MCAT?

Go sell your BS somewhere else

And I'm the judgmental one...😀
 
Perhaps that's because your statement was so utterly absurd and brainless that I thought it not worth responding to, figuring that anyone with half a brain could immediately see the vapidity of your ridiculous claim. Or maybe I was just trying to avoid your iron grip of reason. You can decide which.



Perchance you mean "affect"?



I feel strongly about the truth and about the willingness of people to face the truth. This is not a weakness, however much you might think it to be. On the contrary, I am confident that any physician worth his or her salt keeps a strong ethical and moral code.



Ah. I didn't talk nicely enough in an SDN forum to suit your politically correct ears, so therefore I'm not empathetic enough to be a good physician.

Your logic (such as it is) astounds me.



Just curious: How did your score on the verbal comprehension portion of the MCAT?



And I'm the judgmental one...😀

Oh noes, it's the grammar police!
 
You know whats funny Bleg? Im 23 and your 47 and you're acting like a 12 year old. Good luck getting into medical school.
 
Its funny Bleg because the meat of my response to what you said was about how you are going to relate and respond to patients who abuse alcohol/drugs...and guess what you didn't respond. See in Medical School we learn that you CANNOT let your biases effect the medical care you render and if you plan on being a good physician, you might want to try and address why you feel so strongly about the things you spoke of. No one says you're not allowed to disagree but as vehemently as you did worries me that you may in fact not know how to leave your biases behind. It's funny because you are about one step away from claiming that because someone has smoked pot they can no longer be a good physician. Go sell your BS somewhere else


While physicians and other HCWs mustn't compromise their quality of care for pts with whom they have lifestyle disagreements, I think it is easy for people to take things too far in the opposite direction as well. I work full-time with the type of pts we are talking about. Daily, I do admission and ongoing assessments, treatment plans, and direct medical and psychiatric care for the substance abusers (incl. plenty of college students and people who got started in college and never managed to get out of their drug habit) as well as those with HI/attempts and SI/attempts (often one and the same w/ the EtOH and drug abusers). Honestly, you shouldn't embrace what they are doing as "okay." You should emphasize other (healthy) ways of coping with stressors. Someone who is "okay" with substance abuse is likely to give these pts an excuse that their bx is okay (and, trust me, many of them will use that and it will make other HCWs' lives tougher when that person ends up in a hospital for treatment; I've seen it happen). So while I do not agree that having smoked MJ in the past necessarily makes a person "unfit to be a physician," I could see some concerns about that person's current attitudes toward drugs -- esp. if that person hopes to work with a more vulnerable population of pts (mental health, peds, etc.) as, for many of these pts, "just smoking MJ once" could easily run a dangerous course much like a single spark can set off a forest fire.
 
Bleg, SDN posters tend to have viewpoints on various issues that differ widely. It is not a coincidence that not one person in here agrees with you.
 
You know whats funny Bleg? Im 23 and your 47 and you're acting like a 12 year old. Good luck getting into medical school.

You know what's funny, whoknows? I'm 47 and you're 23 and you are lecturing me and calling me childish.

Well, *I* think it's kinda funny.
 
Bleg, SDN posters tend to have viewpoints on various issues that differ widely. It is not a coincidence that not one person in here agrees with you.

You have actually talked with every person here to determine whether they agree with me?
 
You have actually talked with every person here to determine whether they agree with me?

In here meaning this thread. I think we have found the new sadly misinformed pre-med student.
 
You don't have the right to rail about whose lifestyle is right/wrong according to your own personal beliefs, either...She has no right to judge him because she doesn't approve.

Of course we have the right to do this. I suspect you don't have any good idea what is meant by a "right".

Even if what a patient is doing is "unhealthy" or otherwise destructive, you can't force them to change and dwelling on it/whining about it on the internet is fruitless.

Who said anything about forcing anyone to change? And if you find internet whining so counterproductive, why are you engaging in it?

As a doctor, it's something you have to keep to yourself or just avoid altogether, because it's none of your business .

This is simply false.
 
My wife of 22 years will be relieved to hear that.



My five children will be shocked to know.



Because no reasonable adult can possibly hold an opinion different from yours. Right?

i didnt know a 12 year old can have 5 kids and a wife of 22 years. that is how stupid you sound - you do not come off as an old man. anyways, its not because your opinions different, its because it has no real basis. you have not presented any real argument. you just say its bad because its bad .. im done arguing with 12 year olds .. seeya - im done checking this thread
 
i didnt know a 12 year old can have 5 kids and a wife of 22 years. that is how stupid you sound - you do not come off as an old man.

**** NEWS FLASH ****

47 is not old.

**** BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED ARGUMENT ****

anyways, its not because your opinions different, its because it has no real basis. you have not presented any real argument.

Says the guy who affirms his opinion without presenting any arguments.
 
i didnt know there was a page two to this thread .. i just read it. Bleg, you are a very sad case man. I really hope you don't get into nursing. Keep your job at Staples ... medicine is a thinking mans/womans sport

you sound like a 12 year old ... no wait, they are better able to make a sound argument, - a 8 year old after coming out of a D.A.R.E presentation

if you are this dense about marijuana, i wonder how bad you are at teaching your kids ... i hope your wife is more involved in that than you are

sorry yall - i just hate ignorance and this kid is too damn ignorant. i hope theres nobody silly like you in my class this fall. (i know i know there will be and i need to deal with it since they are my colleagues - this is the internet, i wouldn't be this blunt with Bleg in real life)

oh and for real im done checking this thread .. you cant teach these kids everything .. and some are just a lost cause (when they are old men like Blahhh, i mean Bleg)
 
i didnt know there was a page two to this thread .. i just read it. Bleg, you are a very sad case man. I really hope you don't get into nursing. Keep your job at Staples ... medicine is a thinking mans/womans sport

you sound like a 12 year old ... no wait, they are better able to make a sound argument, - a 8 year old after coming out of a D.A.R.E presentation

if you are this dense about marijuana, i wonder how bad you are at teaching your kids ... i hope your wife is more involved in that than you are

sorry yall - i just hate iggorance and this kid is too damn ignorant. i hope theres nobody silly like you in my class this fall. (i know i know there will be and i need to deal with it since they are my colleagues - this is the internet, i wouldn't be this blunt with Bleg in real life)

😀 brke is the poster boy for the tolerant med student.
 
On the other hand, high school is an absolute joke. Although I did end up graduating with a 3.0 exactly, I got my share of C's and D's in high school classes. Heck, I got an F in English for a grading period my Junior year, although it was a college prep class. When I said I wanted to be a doctor, absolutely no one took me seriously. Heck, my parents didn't even really want to let me go to college because they thought I'd be wasting money and drop out after the first semester. I'm not saying everyone that does poorly in high school goes on to succeed, but it can happen.

I hope my classmates went to achieve what they wanted to. Usually, when you realize that you have to put in work to achieve then people usually do. Unless you're a senior and you decided you wanted to be pre-med with a 1.6 GPA.
 
So in your little world, it is impossible for a person to identify an abhorrent behavior for what it is and yet still empathize with those who exhibit this behavior? I think you need to get a little life experience, friend. As a father and simply as a human being, I spend my life identifying bad behaviors and even naming them as such, yet still being empathetic and supportive to those seeking to change.

I assume you'd call smoking tobacco an abhorrent behavior as well?
 
I assume you'd call smoking tobacco an abhorrent behavior as well?

I'm not talking about finding something personally abhorrent (and yes, I do find tobacco smoking personally abhorrent, notwithstanding the fact that close friends and other people I love smoke). I'm talking about societally abhorrent, things that tend to contribute to the severing of the interpersonal bonds -- husband and wife, parent and child, neighbor and neighbor -- that form the basis of society and that we as a society depend upon for our very existence. In general, illegal activity fits this description. Drug usage, and especially illegal drug usage, very obviously fills this description. Dealing in illegal drugs is a large step beyond mere drug usage, and is societally damaging no matter how you slice it.
 
If being told not to judge someone is your idea of "mean," then you need to get out of medicine immediately. In fact, just hole yourself up in your house and never leave, because you can't handle the real world if this is your idea of "mean." I didn't insult you, berate you, or act otherwise rudely toward you.

You are never justified in judging someone else - frankly, it's none of your business what he does with his life. A D in a class doesn't necessarily mean he'll never get into medical school. Maybe the uninformed pre-med here is you.

again, why so mean? I did not pass any personal judgment on him as a person. I merely evaluated his lack of traits to be a doctor. Obviously any one of these events is passable, but dealing ecstasy, a D on a test, and perpetual failure to submit HW all together lead one to believe his excessive confidence is probably uncalled for. I made this thread with plenty of smileys and wasn't trying to create a hate thread. Please go somewhere else. 🙂 Thanks a million.
 
Today a kid in my class offered to sell me drugs🙁....Then he complained about how he got a D on his orgo exam🙁....then he told me he didn't do that days HW🙁.... then he told me he had no doubt that he would be accepted into medical school and become a rich surgeon:scared:😱.

I was stunned. He was completely serious. I kinda felt bad for him; he was just so confident that he would succeed. Just thought I'd share....

you might have talked to a real gunner. he very well could have gotten an A, did all this homework and pre-read 2 wks ahead. now he just want to sell you drugs to mess you up to eliminate competition.
 
I'm not talking about finding something personally abhorrent (and yes, I do find tobacco smoking personally abhorrent, notwithstanding the fact that close friends and other people I love smoke). I'm talking about societally abhorrent, things that tend to contribute to the severing of the interpersonal bonds -- husband and wife, parent and child, neighbor and neighbor -- that form the basis of society and that we as a society depend upon for our very existence. In general, illegal activity fits this description. Drug usage, and especially illegal drug usage, very obviously fills this description. Dealing in illegal drugs is a large step beyond mere drug usage, and is societally damaging no matter how you slice it.

Well, you're consistent with your abhorrence, so I've got no beef with you.

The two points I'd make is that just because something is societally damaging does not make it bad. Sometimes society is wrong. The second is that something is not societally damaging just because it is illegal. Speeding is illegal, but it doesn't do much to damage society. Society has simply accepted that people speed, regardless of the risks involved. I'd actually make the case that excess speeding is far more dangerous than smoking or selling pot.

However, this kid is also dealing E and LSD, which is not stuff for fooling around. I ain't gonna judge the users, but people making money of this stuff are not folks I'd be eager to hang out with.
 
you might have talked to a real gunner. he very well could have gotten an A, did all this homework and pre-read 2 wks ahead. now he just want to sell you drugs to mess you up to eliminate competition.

It all makes sense. It really would be the ultimate gunner move. How didn't I see that! Thanks for the heads up. :laugh:
 
Do you wander this forum looking for mean, unnecessarily judgmental, and generally deuschy things to say. From what I have read it would appear so. My judgment, in this case, is entirely justified. The kid illegally sells drugs, uses drugs, and fails his classes. He is in control of his actions and based upon these actions the above inferences are entirely warranted 🙂
Is there irony here perhaps?

Someone mentioned that the person in the OP was selling Marijuana. I realize now that i failed to mention the drug. This person was dealing ecstacy and LSD, not merely MJ. Perhaps this sheds further enlightenment into my astonishment.

again, why so mean? I did not pass any personal judgment on him as a person. I merely evaluated his lack of traits to be a doctor. Obviously any one of these events is passable, but dealing ecstasy, a D on a test, and perpetual failure to submit HW all together lead one to believe his excessive confidence is probably uncalled for. I made this thread with plenty of smileys and wasn't trying to create a hate thread. Please go somewhere else. 🙂 Thanks a million.
It seems you believe yourself to be an authority on such an issue...?

I find it funny that within a couple of days I have come across your posts again...and again I'm blown away. While you're claiming not to have wanted to create a hate thread, it seems the bigger issue at hand is why bother making the thread at all then? Is it really so necessary to put others down all the time (referencing former posts I've read)? Anybody who has survived the middle school and high school experience lower on the hierarchy than the "cool" kids later figures out that all the kids that pointed fingers and laughed did it for one reason: insecurity. By no means is this kid's actions admirable and yes, maybe it is laughable that he believes he has a strong chance at a successful career in surgery, but maybe you should step back and re-evaluate who is really noteworthy in this scenario.

I'll do my best not to bother responding to any more of your posts because it is quite apparent that we would see eye to eye on, well, probably nothing lol. Good luck in your future endeavors with this type of mentality. Do us all a favor and don't work with underserved populations. Sometimes those people need encouragement.
 
Is there irony here perhaps?




It seems you believe yourself to be an authority on such an issue...?

I find it funny that within a couple of days I have come across your posts again...and again I'm blown away. While you're claiming not to have wanted to create a hate thread, it seems the bigger issue at hand is why bother making the thread at all then? Is it really so necessary to put others down all the time (referencing former posts I've read)? Anybody who has survived the middle school and high school experience lower on the hierarchy than the "cool" kids later figures out that all the kids that pointed fingers and laughed did it for one reason: insecurity. By no means is this kid's actions admirable and yes, maybe it is laughable that he believes he has a strong chance at a successful career in surgery, but maybe you should step back and re-evaluate who is really noteworthy in this scenario.

I'll do my best not to bother responding to any more of your posts because it is quite apparent that we would see eye to eye on, well, probably nothing lol. Good luck in your future endeavors with this type of mentality. Do us all a favor and don't work with underserved populations. Sometimes those people need encouragement.

Thank you so much for the insight. You have truly effected a change in my life. Keep up the great posts. Good luck in medical school!
 
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Perhaps you should step back and re evaluate yourself. How dare you infer that you possess some sort of moral superiority, whilst I act without empathy and in a state of moral depravity. For the sake of conversation I brought up a topic on someone who will never read it. No one is hurt and we have something to talk about. You are directly attacking my character. The person whom I will speak of will experience no repercussions. You have certainly hurt my feelings 🙁 Please, oh noble sage, do not speak from your podium of perfection, if you are committing the very fallacy that you so adamantly preach against. People like you disgust me.🙂

Says the kid acting as a moral authority, judging someone who will "never read this forum."

How very high school of you - if I do it behind their back, it won't hurt!!!!! Please.
 
Says the kid acting as a moral authority, judging someone who will "never read this forum."

How very high school of you - if I do it behind their back, it won't hurt!!!!! Please.

Its a forum. Please let it go. Sorry if I upset you.
 
Its a forum. Please let it go. Sorry if I upset you.

I'm not gonna try not to take a side here. But just so you know, posts like this _generally_ end up with people attacking the OP. I know it's a forum, but there is a certain "mind your business" mentality around here. And a lot of people are gonna try not going to attack or belittle someone they don't know.
 
I'm not gonna try not to take a side here. But just so you know, posts like this _generally_ end up with people attacking the OP. I know it's a forum, but there is a certain "mind your business" mentality around here. And a lot of people are gonna try not going to attack or belittle someone they don't know.

True. I tend to only really come on here around finals time, mainly for cathartic purposes. However, I always seem to forget how careful one must be in making posts. It seems like almost everything gets turned into an argument.



On an unrelated note...Coastal NC is absolutely gorgeous(random, I know, but I was just looking at houses out there when I saw your location🙂
 
True. I tend to only really come on here around finals time, mainly for cathartic purposes. However, I always seem to forget how careful one must be in making posts. It seems like almost everything gets turned into an argument.



On an unrelated note...Coastal NC is absolutely gorgeous(random, I know, but I was just looking at houses out there when I saw your location🙂

EVERYTHING you say on SDN can be turned into an argument haha.

And thinks, it is beautiful out here.
 
This is not some innocent lost lamb we're talking about. This kid is a "grade A" jerk. How can anyone really empathize with this kind of person. They are usually cocky, arrogant, and condescending frat boys. Also, would you really want someone who was illegally selling prescription drugs to be your doctor? I think not.

Your stereotyping of people just threw your comment out the window.
 
Not a "kid". He's a man and should be in jail for selling drugs.

If you went into every good physician's past, or every good person's past, you would certainly find something "unsavory or ridiculous", like telling a racist joke or masturbating in a public bathroom stall. What you would not generally find is drug usage and drug selling. Don't pretend that such socially abhorrent and destructive activities are normal. They are not.

If the "kid" gets his head on straight and turns his life around, more power to him. As of now, though, he's just another sociopath. We should hope most sincerely that he and those like him don't take up valuable space in medical school.

Of course the student isn't legally a "kid," but most older adults would consider him one. It's just a matter of perspective. When you're middle-aged or elderly, someone who is in their early twenties appears quite young. And according to the story in the original post, he clearly has a lot of growing up to do.

But that's a minor quibble. What's more troubling is your inability to put his behavior in it's proper social and moral context. No one is pretending that using and selling illegal drugs in "normal," but it is not necessarily evidence of anti-social personality disorder. Some illegal drugs, such as marijuana, aren't particularly harmful, and there is no evidence that using and selling small quantities is indicative of psychological problems. Calling him a sociopath, therefore, is inappropriate and presumptive.

It's incorrect to claim that using and selling illegal drugs is socially abhorrent and harmful. It can be, but that's not always the case. If a college student sells a small bag of marijuana to a close friend for $10, is that socially abhorent and harmful? Of course not. No one is talking about selling crack to children. You seem to be suffering from the toxic mind-rot of 1930s anti-drug propaganda; I bet if I showed you a clip of Reefer Madness it would ring quite true to you.

What is socially abhorrent and harmful, however, is the punitive paradigm of the War on Drugs, which offers surprising continuity with the most shameful episodes of our past. Most people don't know this, but the history of our drug laws is based on racism. During the 1930s, immigrants from Mexico and Central America were associated with stories of violence and marijuana, which led to growing public concern about the drug. The Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 (which effectively prohibited the use of marijauana) passed without medical testimony of any kind, except the opinion of one physician who recommended that the bill be defeated.

Why am I giving you a history lesson? Because you seem completely unaware of how misguided and unethical some of our drug laws are. The true crime is that we continue to allow the War on Drugs to devastate our communities. As Bertram et al. argue in Drug War Politics: The Price of Denial, "drug-related crime is actually the result not of taking drugs but of the conditions under which people buy and sell drugs. And these conditions are the product of drug policies" (p. 33).
 
Your stereotyping of people just threw your comment out the window.


I do not desire this conversation to proceed further, but if you insist upon it, I shall briefly clarify. I stated that people who act like this are, at least at my school, usually cocky arrogant condescending frat boys. This is not based of some prejudice of mine, for I am in a fraternity myself. Rather, this is an accurate generilzation of the student body. Note I said "usually", not "always". I was not speaking in absolutes. Perhaps a metaphor is needed. If I were to say that many people who walk around the streets in baggy clothes and ask for money are homeless, I would, in theory, be stereotyping. However, this does not mean that this statement lacks veracity....

I believe a majority of the students on this board are relatively intelligent. No matter what anyone says I think that someone will be able to find some flaw in it. It is not all that difficult to make the worse argument better and vice versa. However, this creates unnecessary stress for all. Lets just stop. 🙂
 
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And according to the story in the original post, he clearly has a lot of growing up to do.

Agreed. So do you. So do I. But the point is, when society grants all the privileges of adulthood (e.g. voting), it also requires the duties of adulthood. You can't suddenly backpedal and say, "Oh, well, he's only a kid." If he's an adult in the context of rights, he's an adult in the context of responsibilities.

But that's a minor quibble. What's more troubling is your inability to put his behavior in it's proper social and moral context.

Amazing. So you are able to "put his behavior in it's [sic] proper social and moral context" but I am not? And how do you demonstrate this miraculous ability of yours? Simply asserting it does not make it so, and the fact that your opinion agrees with you is a bit circular to use as proof.

No one is pretending that using and selling illegal drugs in "normal," but it is not necessarily evidence of anti-social personality disorder.

Nor did I suggest any such thing. To refresh your memory, look here.

It's incorrect to claim that using and selling illegal drugs is socially abhorrent and harmful.

The word "illegal" should be a sure tipoff to you that the activity is socially abhorrent.

It can be, but that's not always the case. If a college student sells a small bag of marijuana to a close friend for $10, is that socially abhorent and harmful? Of course not.

Of course it is.

You seem to be suffering from the toxic mind-rot of 1930s anti-drug propaganda; I bet if I showed you a clip of Reefer Madness it would ring quite true to you.

Well, now. There's a measured and realistic assessment. Clearly, you don't have any biases of any sort.

What is socially abhorrent and harmful, however, is the punitive paradigm of the War on Drugs, which offers surprising continuity blah blah blah blah ad nauseam

This has nothing to do with the topic. You are merely demonstrating your heavy biases in this area.

Why am I giving you a history lesson? Because you seem completely unaware of how misguided and unethical some of our drug laws are.

And, naturally, you are far better qualified than I to judge how misguided they are, because your opinion agrees so well with you.

Wow, Bleg is awful.

Coming from you, "on house arrest", that is high praise.
 
The word "illegal" should be a sure tipoff to you that the activity is socially abhorrent.

......

And, naturally, you are far better qualified than I to judge how misguided they are, because your opinion agrees so well with you.



Coming from you, "on house arrest", that is high praise.

First off, something being illegal does NOT make it socially abhorrent. You seem to live in a word and complete black and white and need to realize that there's a lot of gray out there. Also, since when were lawmakers the surprise beings of right and wrong? I'm pretty sure less than 100 years ago it was illegal for a black person to sit at the front of the bus. Are you going to tell me black people sitting at the front of the bus was socially abhorrent?

Also, I think both of you guys are probably equally qualified to be sharing your opinions on an internet forum, so lets not get judge about it.

And I doubt on house arrest is actually on house arrest. But regardless, that shouldn't be praise to you.
 
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