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How does the salary of a board certified clinical specialist compare to that of a hospital staff pharmacist?
salary benefits after PGY-2
- Thread starter darren paige
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The money will vary greatly depending upon location. A regular staff pharmacist in Cali makes more than a BCPS in Florida...
The difference comes in the career ceiling and ultimate aspiration. From what I have gleamed in recent months. The PGY2 track tends to have a clinical specialist turned academic track. The staff pharmacist (non PGY equipped) but MHA or MBA tends to lead to a DOP track.
For some professions, the residency really determines your cash potential. In pharmacy, the money is a little more (several thousand a year) - but it is the specialization of your career that you ultimately gain from your 2 years.
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I was always curious as to whether people ever just do a PGY-1 residency and not a PGY-1 + PGY-2. Are there any benefits/drawbacks/reasons to only do 1 year? What kinds of jobs would someone with only 1 year of residency be aiming for as opposed to someone with two years?
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K
Keyoda
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I've been wondering this myself ^
I've been wondering this myself ^
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I think I can live with stipend. I just can't start paying the loan. My current living expense is than $23,000 per year, which is less than most stipend after tax.... That's why I have to work during school to minimize the expense.
Can't you defer your student loans during your residency? I know you can do that with medical school loans.
I know when I met with Norton Healthcare in Louisville, KY the hiring manager told me for every year residency you do, they bring you in at a higher starting salary. For example if you did the PGY1 residency, they brought you in as a pharmacist with 2 years experience and the PGY2 got you 4 years of experience pay level.
PGY1 residencies are available so you can specialize in a setting, but not to specialize in an area of care. What I mean by that is you can opt to do a PGY1 in "manage care", "community care", or "pharmacy". In order to specialize in an area of care from a residency perspective, do the PGY2.
I know when I met with Norton Healthcare in Louisville, KY the hiring manager told me for every year residency you do, they bring you in at a higher starting salary. For example if you did the PGY1 residency, they brought you in as a pharmacist with 2 years experience and the PGY2 got you 4 years of experience pay level.
PGY1 residencies are available so you can specialize in a setting, but not to specialize in an area of care. What I mean by that is you can opt to do a PGY1 in "manage care", "community care", or "pharmacy". In order to specialize in an area of care from a residency perspective, do the PGY2.
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You sure you know what you're talking about?
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I only did a PGY1 and got a critical care position right away. It depends on a lot of factors though. My PGY1 had a fairly heavy critical care focus, so I had a good knowledge base during Q&A. I also interview very well, and I had a good idea of what I wanted from the position and what I could do for the program.
Pretty sure. I have done a lot of research on the profession and met with several people affiliated with UK's College of Pharmacy, as well as, several others and they all say the same things.
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is kentucky just on the forefront of pharmacy or what?
The Commonwealth of KY has the second highest shortage of pharmacists in the US.
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First off: there are plenty of things that you can do with a PGY1 residency. You can teach at a school of pharmacy or work as a clinical pharmacist. Not many hospitals will take just Pharm.D for clinical work.
Other people that have posted are correct - you make only several thousand more as a BCPS.... I am not sure as to a PGY2 graduate. I agree that you can get plenty of positions meant for a PGY2 graduate with just a PGY1 - but this might change if congress reinstates funding for PGY2 residencies. There are not enough graduates as there are spots - because of this PGY1 opportunities are plentiful.
PS - where are you going to find a residency which only makes $23,000 after taxes??? Most residencies pay at least $35k - and some pay a lot more. If you pay $12k on taxes - you should get somebody else to do your taxes 😛
Do you guys want to end up sitting in front of a computer all day - doing nothing but making sure scripts are entered correctly, dosage forms/amounts are correct, and checking NDC's?? If that's what you want to do - go work for RiteAid and make $120,000/yr almost anywhere worth living. If you want to actually like going into work - then find a different job. You can find plenty of unique jobs without a residency - but if you want to be competitive - do a residency. When you are 50 years old and you have spent the last 25 years staring a computer screen - you'll look back and say, "What is 1 or 2 extra years?!?" Don't worry about the debt - it will go away if you plan well. Don't sell your life for money - do something where you interact with people and make a difference.
I have done several rotations - and when you do rotations - you'll know which ones are worth it and which aren't. And most of the times the good jobs won't give you a $20k sign-on and a huge salary.
Other people that have posted are correct - you make only several thousand more as a BCPS.... I am not sure as to a PGY2 graduate. I agree that you can get plenty of positions meant for a PGY2 graduate with just a PGY1 - but this might change if congress reinstates funding for PGY2 residencies. There are not enough graduates as there are spots - because of this PGY1 opportunities are plentiful.
PS - where are you going to find a residency which only makes $23,000 after taxes??? Most residencies pay at least $35k - and some pay a lot more. If you pay $12k on taxes - you should get somebody else to do your taxes 😛
Do you guys want to end up sitting in front of a computer all day - doing nothing but making sure scripts are entered correctly, dosage forms/amounts are correct, and checking NDC's?? If that's what you want to do - go work for RiteAid and make $120,000/yr almost anywhere worth living. If you want to actually like going into work - then find a different job. You can find plenty of unique jobs without a residency - but if you want to be competitive - do a residency. When you are 50 years old and you have spent the last 25 years staring a computer screen - you'll look back and say, "What is 1 or 2 extra years?!?" Don't worry about the debt - it will go away if you plan well. Don't sell your life for money - do something where you interact with people and make a difference.
I have done several rotations - and when you do rotations - you'll know which ones are worth it and which aren't. And most of the times the good jobs won't give you a $20k sign-on and a huge salary.
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Seriously, that was just awesome to read. I feel the same way.
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I didn't want to specialize and I barely wanted to do one year, let alone 2
I'm old so I was ready to be working. I got a great job with my residency but I could have had this job without one. I do know though that I'm much more involved and am doing a lot more with my job because of my residency and that increases my job satisfaction. I have a lot of flexibility in my job to pursue my interests. I don't regret doing a residency at all. Pay-wise I know I'm making the same as a person with 6+ years of experience vs my 2. I won't make any extra to get my BCPS but I plan to do that anyway.
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Sorry to hijack thread a little, but:
A lot of people say that PGY2 is the way to go. But what if one does a PGY1 residency that is heavily focused on one area, for example a PGY1 residency at the VA or elsewhere focused in ambulatory care? Can you then get away with a good clinical position, preferably in the Northeast?
I am already burning out and I'm a P2. I really want to pursue a residency, but can't imagine doing 2 years, especially at 40k pay.
A lot of people say that PGY2 is the way to go. But what if one does a PGY1 residency that is heavily focused on one area, for example a PGY1 residency at the VA or elsewhere focused in ambulatory care? Can you then get away with a good clinical position, preferably in the Northeast?
I am already burning out and I'm a P2. I really want to pursue a residency, but can't imagine doing 2 years, especially at 40k pay.
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Bullsh*t. Have you ever worked in a pharmacy in your life. It's been six years since this joker posted this spiel and pharmacists are still not considered healthcare providers.
Oh wow. Where should I start? Clinical jobs are rare because they bring no tangible value to most hospitals. Who needs a clinical pharmacist who can't even prescribe medications when they can employ NPs or PAs that can diagnose, prescribe, and treat patients. Clinical pharmacy is the joke. They do pretend doctor stuff like making medication recommendations and rounding with the attending doctors, but they don't get reimbursed by insurance companies for that work. The physicians I've met couldn't care less about them.
Those staff pharmacists that do the verifying 'staring at the screen' are the real heroes of the pharmacy world. They are the ones keeping the doctors and nurses from prescribing a potentially fatal medication. If it wasn't for these second set of eyes, hospitals would have to hire more lawyers to take care of all the mess that would take place when unforeseen contraindications were missed by the original prescribers.
These clinical pharmacists have such a snooty, higher-than-thou attitude. They only exist because misguided academic pharmacists want them to exist. If you want patient interaction, go be a nurse or a physician.
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Hmm...OK...when a staff pharmacist asks me how to dose amphotericin B for histoplasmosis, or any other clinical question, I guess I'll just say "I don't really do anything, so just figure it out yourself". Or when the doctor goes to me for discharge med rec (which our outpatient staff pharms don't do due to time constraints), guess I should also tell them to do it themselves as well, huh? I feel like the reason that pharmacy as a profession can't stand up for themselves is because different types of pharmacists like to say that other pharmacists aren't important.
Not really. It's location based.
Since I know you're in Georgia, I'll let you in on a couple of things. Wellstar, which is quickly becoming a rather large hospital system in GA has an income range of 47/hr to ~57/hr. Generally, I haven't seen them hire a lot of fresh grads so usually residents, and they'll start off most people 47-49 based on what services they're expected to provide. $5/hr differential for evening, another $5/hr for weekend. Not sure about night.
Hospitals outside ATL may start around 45-50/hr.
Thanks for the info... but wow, I had no idea that starting salaries at GA hospital networks (especially for residency graduates) are so low. I guess the chains really do pay more.
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No one ever doubted that chains pay much more. It just depends on if losing out on a median 5 dollars an hour and about 140k of potential money for the salary difference of 1st and 2nd residency years is worth a lunch break, sitting down (quite often) and worrying about things other than company metrics.
Just to add, I've seen a couple of DOPs move into managed care so there's always that. When I did rotations at several managed care facilities, I always found it really funny how everyone wants to explain to you what their job is, since it's not apparently obvious that they do anything but push spreadsheets.
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And what? Do you want me to applaud your work? Do I need to complement you because you are just so smart? Why is it that clinical pharmacists/specialists/PGY-whatever have the constant need to be praised? Its nice of you to do some of the scut work that doctors don't want to do(amphotericin dosing, discharge med recs). But that's only because the P&T committee decided that doctors would "allow" you to do it. Furthermore, the lowly staff pharmacists at my hospital could do these things easily.
I hope you're not one of those goofball clinical pharmacists that exists only to precept the pharmacy students. We have ONE purely clinical pharmacist. I've never seen a hospital staff member work as little as that clinical pharmacist. The staff pharmacists can't stand this person because they are doing the majority of the work, while this higher-than-thou clinical pharmacist is doing nothing meaningful. It would be nice if this clinical pharmacist tried to help out the staff pharmacists with the work that comes down. But I guess they couldn't care less. Talk about unity.
PS. I've seen this clinical pharmacist 'recommend' medication treatment plans, but I've found that these have been ignored for the most part by the physicians.
So is your opinion that clinical pharmacists are legitimately useless, or they tend to carry a bad attitude about their worth/ability/importance compared to non-clinical pharmacists?
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Clinical pharmacists are not legitimately useless, they just aren't that much more important than a staff pharmacist. A dedicated staff pharmacist could do the work of a clinical pharmacist and not have a huge ego. I just don't understand why academia wants to create a separate class of pharmacist within hospital pharmacy when we already have one that is more than capable of doing all the things that clinical pharmacy specialists are supposedly only capable of.
The idea that PGY-2>PGY-1>PharmD>RPh that schools are trying to push is IMHO toxic. I would rather that pharmacists not be discriminated by this degree creep.
I haven't observed ( so far) any noticeable difference. However, I do know that landing a job-wise in this competitive market, I can see a hospital choosing a PGY-2 for a ICU Critical position over someone who is just your average staff pharmacist but has ICU experience. It would all boil down to how they interview and whether the skill set for each pharmacist would be in alignment with the hospital dept's needs. A PGY-2 might have more opportunities for desired specialized positions rather than your average pharmacist.
That was just one example. Another field that a PGY-2 would have leverage would be oncology.
Sometimes, also having a PGY-2 or certification gives you a bit more leverage in advocating (or not advocating) for certain medications/policies/interventions or some political clout in your institution.
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See, I pretty much agree with you on this. I do NOT agree with you calling my job a joke and saying that it is of no benefit. I do not wish to be praised, but I also do NOT think that my job is a joke.
Understandable position. Your initial posts seemed to be charged attacks against the idea of clinical pharmacist positions. Though I can understand the logic behind thinking a two year residency trained pharmacist might have specialized knowledge that a graduate couldn't get through a single elective course. I certainly question academia pushing specializations heavy when they are such rare positions, though.
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You've got a lot to learn regarding how OTHER institutions run their respective ship.
To answer the OP's question from 6-7 years ago...that's a dumb question.
You can't answer the question with a singular statement without regard to specialty. Look up your local state university employees salaries. Look at the differences between medicine pharmacists, oncology pharmacists, and administrative pharmacists. You'll see a substantial differences across the various specialties.
I guess I just had no idea that the discrepancy between retail and hospital salaries was so huge. In fact, I was even more surprised earlier today when I was browsing through job listings posted by a recruiter, and they had a listing for a clinical pharmacist starting out at $40/hour (around $83k/year). Someone could literally have a base salary of $40k more by working for a chain (assuming they actually can obtain full-time employment).
Just curious, do managed care pharmacists do a lot better? ..... But if someone has to be a DOP first, don't most DOP openings require 8-10 years of experience working as a hospital pharmacist?
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Your n=1, is not the entirety of the job market.
Yeah, but don't positions that are posted by recruiters typically offer higher-than-average starting salaries because they're having a hard time finding candidates? (at least, isn't that why the employer sought-out a recruiter in the first place?)
Here is the link to the page that lists the job opening; do Ctrl+F and type in "Wisconsin and Minnesota" and you'll find the listing.:
http://www.kirbyclinical.com/Open_Positions.html
Also, I was shocked to see how much they're offering NPs/PAs -- in most cases, a minimum of $120k plus benefits to start and up to almost $170k in some cases. The other pharmacy positions listed are for DOP openings so they're offering more, but I just figured that clinical pharmacists were starting off closer to $110k or more. Even some of the DOP positions aren't offering all that much more to start than the NP/PA listings are offering to new grads.
PAtoPharm lives in Georgia, and I can attest to the fact that the southeastern US does not pay inpatient pharmacists well. I was offered $42/hr as a clinical pharmacist in the Miami area back in '13. I managed to negotiate up a bit, but confirmed with some friends that they all were offered similar amounts.
This really seems to be regional though. Central Florida pays more than South Florida, but as you get into Georgia you start to see those lower numbers again. I currently live in Arkansas and I know that new pharmacists at my hospital make in the low or mid 40/hr.
Those are all good points. I was also told by a pharmacist who owns his own independent that local hospitals are starting pharmacists out at around $80k a year, although I wish I could be proven wrong on this.
On the other hand, I have been told that Walmart is stating off new grads as PICs at $125-$130k a year base salary plus bonus potential, so that was one example that was at the front of my mind when I made the comment about some retail pharmacists starting off at $40k-$50k more than hospital pharmacists.
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As a specialist pharmacist, I've had 4 job offers and none of the salaries have been less than $110k a year. Highest was $120k offer that I negotiated in the southwest. Lowest was $110k in the Midwest. My current salary is $115k in the Southeast. This has just been my experience so take it with a grain of salt.
Can I ask what state you're in?
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No, I don't. Sorry.
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Ummm you don't need to be a clinical pharmacist to dose meds. It takes 10 seconds to look up with all the resources available.
If you want to be in the clinical world, become an MD. I'd say Osteopath/NP/PA too but would never personally settle for anything less than an MD.
Buffalo_CC_Pharmacist
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Why do all the non-residency people always have to talk so much sh** about those who did a residency? You don't see us residency people talking bad about you, do you? The problem with this site is every pharmacist putting each other down. If you don't think residencies are necessary then fine, don't do one. And to the OP's original question, people who do residency (especially those of us who did 2 years) don't do it for the money. If you notice, a lot of people on here complain about how much pharmacy sucks, and those people typically work in retail (not all, but it's a generalization). You rarely hear clinical specialists complaining, because we love our jobs and enjoy going to work. For us, it has nothing to do with the money. I'll take less money than someone who works for a chain pharmacy (who's unhappy) every single day if it means I actually love what I do. So many people here care about the money. If you care about the money - do retail, if you care about your happiness and overall health, then do something you love!
Also, for the record, I make just as much (if not more) than my friends in retail in my same city. Like others have said, it depends on your region/hospital. The specialists at my PGY2 institution made $120-130K starting out (although the ceiling wasn't too far from there). Also, PGY1 trained people started out making more than non-PGY1 and same with PGY2 vs. PGY1. BCPS and other specialized certifications also allowed for a pay-increase in addition to paying for the exam fees.
**Note: I had a lot of student loans and deferred during residency. You can also pay back smaller amounts based on your income during residency too.
Also, for the record, I make just as much (if not more) than my friends in retail in my same city. Like others have said, it depends on your region/hospital. The specialists at my PGY2 institution made $120-130K starting out (although the ceiling wasn't too far from there). Also, PGY1 trained people started out making more than non-PGY1 and same with PGY2 vs. PGY1. BCPS and other specialized certifications also allowed for a pay-increase in addition to paying for the exam fees.
**Note: I had a lot of student loans and deferred during residency. You can also pay back smaller amounts based on your income during residency too.
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