Salary EM

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StressedMedStud said:
Just curious what are starting salaries for EM docs? I couldnt find a thread on this.

What is the max a EM doc can make?
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After state and federal taxes, retirement, student loan payments, car payments, kids costs, mortgage, electric etc im at about $7/hr.

There is no max.. So many business models in EM. I would suggest for a more serious answer to your question look at the job boards. Ill find a few for you..

Emcare is happy to tell you usually. Very location dependent.
http://www.emcare.com/Clinical-Jobs/
- Up to $200/hour rate

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2012/emergencymedicine
Keep in mind hours worked in our field matters a lot.
 
StressedMedStud said:
Just curious what are starting salaries for EM docs? I couldnt find a thread on this.

What is the max a EM doc can make?
Click to expand...

Depends on where you work, how many days/week, etc. (I'm not in EM btw). I recently got an email from recruiters where they had listed a one week gig for 14,700k/mo. There seems to be a high demand these days, avg hour rates range from $100-200 from what I've seen, some places that are very desperate will pay over 2k/shift though. It really depends as stated on where, how many days/shifts, etc.
 
StressedMedStud said:
Just curious what are starting salaries for EM docs? I couldnt find a thread on this.

What is the max a EM doc can make?
Click to expand...
Hit your med school library. Look for a book called the "Physician Productivity and Compensation Survey". The 2012 edition is out. You want some semblance of data not anecdotes. Also you can google the Medscape compensation survey that came out earlier this year. Limited participation but it's free and can give you some idea.
 
Part time at $100-250/hr - as many hours or shifts as you want or can arrange.

Salary packages - $200-400K + benefits/year. The range depends on academics (less) vs. private, payor mix, location, shifts/month, partner track, etc.
 
dotcb said:
Part time at $100-250/hr - as many hours or shifts as you want or can arrange.

Salary packages - $200-400K + benefits/year. The range depends on academics (less) vs. private, payor mix, location, shifts/month, partner track, etc.
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I can't freaking wait until I pay off my loans so that I can go part-time, immediately.Its not that I'm lazy, or that I hate EM. I just don't have an extravagant lifestyle or habits. I just want to play in the park and enjoy the sunshine as much as possible.
 
I was on medscape and it says women avg salary is $192K vs. Men which is $247K

Can any female EM docs confirm this ??? That is so ridiculous IMO

Also how much do EM docs make in NJ?
 
StressedMedStud said:
I was on medscape and it says women avg salary is $192K vs. Men which is $247K

Can any female EM docs confirm this ??? That is so ridiculous IMO

Also how much do EM docs make in NJ?
Click to expand...
lol, i dont think any female is going to know more then the medscape report. It probably just comes down to women going part time more often then men and in the past there being more men graduates so there are likely more men in managerial roles. I also think there hvae been studies that show men see more patients per hour then women,
 
StressedMedStud said:
I was on medscape and it says women avg salary is $192K vs. Men which is $247K

Can any female EM docs confirm this ??? That is so ridiculous IMO

Also how much do EM docs make in NJ?
Click to expand...

Think first before you fly off the handle. Remember that in EM, your "salary" is based on the number of hours you work. You can usually find places that will let you work as much or as little as you like. There is no set amount. Most women I know choose to work fewer hours than their male counterparts (there are exceptions certainly.) If you work 80% of the hours in EM, you will make (roughly) 80% of the salary.

For instance, in one of the groups I work for the men seem to average about 16-18 shifts (9's) per month, while most of the women work 13-15. At (let's say) $200 per hour, the 27 extra hours per month (three shifts) would be about $65,000 per year difference. However, they all make basically the same salary (on an hourly basis.)

As to your second question, I've never worked in NJ, but when I see positions advertised in the 50 or so recruiting emails I get per day, NJ seems to be below average. The closer you get to NYC, the worse your compensation will likely get. The more rural, it will likely be higher (as long as the payor mix supports it... you won't make as much at a 10K shop as a 20K shop with the same physician staffing.)
 
StressedMedStud said:
I was on medscape and it says women avg salary is $192K vs. Men which is $247K

Can any female EM docs confirm this ??? That is so ridiculous IMO

Also how much do EM docs make in NJ?
Click to expand...

All of the female docs in my group with small children work fewer hours overall. We all get paid the same/hr.
 
DrMom said:
All of the female docs in my group with small children work fewer hours overall. We all get paid the same/hr.
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The women in my group make less because none of them work nights. But they get paid the exact same as a guy working that same shift.

There are many factors that explain why women make less than men. Only one or two of them are actually bad.
 
When I did my ER rotation, the attending told me that full time is working 3 days a week (12 hour shift per day).

If I wanted to work part time could I work 1.5 shift and work 1 and half day? That would be awesome esp if you are trying to start a family.
 
StressedMedStud said:
I was on medscape and it says women avg salary is $192K vs. Men which is $247K

Can any female EM docs confirm this ??? That is so ridiculous IMO

Also how much do EM docs make in NJ?
Click to expand...

ALWAYS look at the whole picture. Many women in medicine work part time/less hours than men for multiple reasons. You get paid the same rate though. So, if you work the same hours as a male doc you'll make the same.
 
StressedMedStud said:
When I did my ER rotation, the attending told me that full time is working 3 days a week (12 hour shift per day).

If I wanted to work part time could I work 1.5 shift and work 1 and half day? That would be awesome esp if you are trying to start a family.
Click to expand...

Probably not. You're much more likely to be able to work 2 shifts one week and one shift the next week for an average of 1.5/week.
 
wow the pay for EM is really high for the # of hrs worked... 36 hrs is full time? and you get 200k+ for that?
 
waterbottle10 said:
wow the pay for EM is really high for the # of hrs worked... 36 hrs is full time? and you get 200k+ for that?
Click to expand...

Volunteer at a busy ED, and you'll understand why no one works more than 36hr/week.

The physical and the psychological demands that ED docs endure in one shift are above and beyond what retail pharmacists experience in a year.

From my experience in ED, I can tell you that the relatively high pay in emergency medicine is justified.
 
b-real said:
Ignorant poster is ignorant.
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I've heard multiple attendings say almost exactly the same thing. Not saying I agree with them, but I don't know if I'd be so quick to judge the OP ignorant.
 
EMquest3 said:
I've heard multiple attendings say almost exactly the same thing. Not saying I agree with them, but I don't know if I'd be so quick to judge the OP ignorant.
Click to expand...

EM attendings have told you that their job isn't stressful and that they make too much for the hours worked? Cause, honestly, I couldn't care less what some IM (or any other specialty) faculty thinks about EM.
 
b-real said:
EM attendings have told you that their job isn't stressful and that they make too much for the hours worked? Cause, honestly, I couldn't care less what some IM (or any other specialty) faculty thinks about EM.
Click to expand...

When I said attendings I meant EM attendings not any other specialty. Also, the original statement that was being referred to simply said that the pay in EM is very good for the hours worked. You called that person ignorant and now you are trying to add statements about "stress and making too much" when nothing of the sort was mentioned.
 
Some EM pay is good. some sucks..
 
i'm hour 8 into my 11 hour shift. $205 an hour. i've seen three patients. purged my two personal email inboxes and my work inbox, did admin stuff, surfed the net, read about Halo 4. eating my second meal. charts done.
life is good.
 
DrQuinn said:
i'm hour 8 into my 11 hour shift. $205 an hour. i've seen three patients. purged my two personal email inboxes and my work inbox, did admin stuff, surfed the net, read about Halo 4. eating my second meal. charts done.
life is good.
Click to expand...

Ummm...sign me up!
 
TrumpetDoc said:
Ummm...sign me up!
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meh. the restaurants here suck compared to Vegas. That being said, I've seen one more patient since my last update. finger lac. five stitches. discharged. two more hours to go. i swear i've surfed every website on the entire internet. time to start at website #1 again.
Q
 
DrQuinn said:
meh. the restaurants here suck compared to Vegas. That being said, I've seen one more patient since my last update. finger lac. five stitches. discharged. two more hours to go. i swear i've surfed every website on the entire internet. time to start at website #1 again.
Q
Click to expand...

Sometimes I wish for a few less patients, but I think that might drive me nuts. Although when I go in tonight and there are 50 patients (like their were last night) in the waiting room I might change my mind.
 
DrQuinn said:
meh. the restaurants here suck compared to Vegas. That being said, I've seen one more patient since my last update. finger lac. five stitches. discharged. two more hours to go. i swear i've surfed every website on the entire internet. time to start at website #1 again.
Q
Click to expand...

I remember the days when you would get to the end of Stumbleupon and it would tell you "there aren't any more."
 
DrQuinn said:
meh. the restaurants here suck compared to Vegas. That being said, I've seen one more patient since my last update. finger lac. five stitches. discharged. two more hours to go. i swear i've surfed every website on the entire internet. time to start at website #1 again.
Q
Click to expand...
I would go nuts. I prefer volume. I get bored easily. Tonight I was bored because I only saw 20 patients (10-hour shift) with only a cardiac arrest. The other day I had 26 patients with a rapid AFib, DKA, STEMI, respiratory distress needing intubation, level I trauma requiring intubation and bilateral trauma lines, and a ton of chest pains and abdominal pains. That's the emergency medicine I like to work in. Not a single drug seeker the entire shift.
 
Its not always like that. our group staffs two busier EDs (volumes 20k and 40k) but also three smaller volume EDs. So my entire job isn't like that. Most of hte time I work "downtown" where I am seeing 2-3 an hour, with acuity of 30% admit rate. Our rurals are often a different story. But its ok, I'll take a slow shift every once in a while, helps me purge my inbox and also lets me sometimes surf SDN!
 
I have always been curious as to why the "average" ED pay (250k) was so low. This avg has to include people working urgent care, part time, etc. There is no way the 250k avg is for the typical avg workload in an ED where you are required to be board certified.

I am board certified, a partner for the past 6 yrs, work in a city usually rated as one of the top to live in, 11 yrs removed from residency. I work 7 hr shifts, 14 days a month. That works out to 1176 hrs/yr. I work in a typical 40K community ED and see about 2.5/hr. This comes out to about 24 hrs/week.

Last year, I pulled in 390K. 52K in my Sep. 10K in my HSA/Business expences. My group pays for my mal practice/health insurance.

I would say if you included my mal practice/health insurance, my total package is close to 480K or about $400/hr.

I get offers from other groups ALL the time offering atleast $300/hr. I know I can moonlight and get $350/hr tomorrow and work as many hours as I would like

So all these statistics showing ED docs making the avg of all specialists is Crap. Take out all of the urgent care docs, all of the docs doing part time, non boarded EM docs and I would be shocked if mose were not making 300k/hr.

If avg was 36hr/week at $400/hr, I would be at over 700k/yr.
 
emergentmd said:
I have always been curious as to why the "average" ED pay (250k) was so low. This avg has to include people working urgent care, part time, etc. There is no way the 250k avg is for the typical avg workload in an ED where you are required to be board certified.

I am board certified, a partner for the past 6 yrs, work in a city usually rated as one of the top to live in, 11 yrs removed from residency. I work 7 hr shifts, 14 days a month. That works out to 1176 hrs/yr. I work in a typical 40K community ED and see about 2.5/hr. This comes out to about 24 hrs/week.

Last year, I pulled in 390K. 52K in my Sep. 10K in my HSA/Business expences. My group pays for my mal practice/health insurance.

I would say if you included my mal practice/health insurance, my total package is close to 480K or about $400/hr.

I get offers from other groups ALL the time offering atleast $300/hr. I know I can moonlight and get $350/hr tomorrow and work as many hours as I would like

So all these statistics showing ED docs making the avg of all specialists is Crap. Take out all of the urgent care docs, all of the docs doing part time, non boarded EM docs and I would be shocked if mose were not making 300k/hr.

If avg was 36hr/week at $400/hr, I would be at over 700k/yr.
Click to expand...
I think that it also depends on the strength of CMGs in your area, city, etc.

Texas seems to depend a lot on where in the state you are. I have heard that Houston pays well, and I get offers from a lot of the smaller cities/hospitals around the states (rural/semi-rural) that seem to play out to your numbers. However, it seems to be lower in "more desirable" areas.

Thoughts?
 
I have been with the same group for a decade and my pay hasn't really changed much until I became a partner. I live in a very desireable city and its actually hard to get a job here now.

I do agree that pay is much better in the less desirable areas but that is with all jobs.

My point is that ED board certified docs are well paid and if you account for the hours we work, are at the top of the payscale. I would like to see what the avg pay is for a board certified EM doc and what the avg hours are.

The avg pay means nothing b/c we have no clue how many hours they work. If the avg is 250k working 20 hrs a wk, then that is alot. For 40hrs a week, that would be low.

My point being that there are many jobs where you can get 300/hr mininum. I get calls/emails weekly offering 300/hr with 50k sign on bonus with health/malpractice insurance paid for.

If I worked even 30 hrs a week, I would make 460k/yr. If I worked 20, 312k/yr.

Even the free standing EDs here are paying 190 an hr with a volume of less than 15 a day.
I could work 24 hrs a week and make 237k/yr.

Let this sink in. I could work four 24 hr shift a month seeing .6pt/hr (mostly quick care) and make close to the 250k/yr ED avg.

I think EM docs are overpaid compared to other specialists.

I am currently typing while vacationing in a condo on the beach with no pager, no patient responsibilities b/c I have alot of time off.

Before we had kids, my wife and I took atleast 6 vacations a year. Not many other specialists have this much time off while making so much money.

Most specialists would kill to make 300k per yr working 24 hrs a week.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
Volunteer at a busy ED, and you'll understand why no one works more than 36hr/week.

The physical and the psychological demands that ED docs endure in one shift are above and beyond what retail pharmacists experience in a year.

From my experience in ED, I can tell you that the relatively high pay in emergency medicine is justified.
Click to expand...

Slow down there........premed.


EM is hard and busier but retai pharmacy is no joke either. I have worked in both. One shift is not a yr worth. 🙄

Shadowed with EM docs for hrs too while working in the busiest ER in my state.

Try working in a CVS that fills 500+ scripts a day.......the phone is ringing, you have folks at pick up and drop off, a customer in your face about something, trying to check that large pile of Rxs before the late light goes off and trying not making an error, and then you have the damn drive thru with 2 lanes full of folks too.

Not that easy......oh, and they cut tech hrs so you are always short staffed. And did I mention you have to stop all that and do immunizations as well.
 
EvoDevo said:
I think that it also depends on the strength of CMGs in your area, city, etc.

Texas seems to depend a lot on where in the state you are. I have heard that Houston pays well, and I get offers from a lot of the smaller cities/hospitals around the states (rural/semi-rural) that seem to play out to your numbers. However, it seems to be lower in "more desirable" areas.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

What about Austin, Texas?

emergentmd said:
I have been with the same group for a decade and my pay hasn't really changed much until I became a partner. I live in a very desireable city and its actually hard to get a job here now.

I do agree that pay is much better in the less desirable areas but that is with all jobs.

My point is that ED board certified docs are well paid and if you account for the hours we work, are at the top of the payscale. I would like to see what the avg pay is for a board certified EM doc and what the avg hours are.

The avg pay means nothing b/c we have no clue how many hours they work. If the avg is 250k working 20 hrs a wk, then that is alot. For 40hrs a week, that would be low.

My point being that there are many jobs where you can get 300/hr mininum. I get calls/emails weekly offering 300/hr with 50k sign on bonus with health/malpractice insurance paid for.

If I worked even 30 hrs a week, I would make 460k/yr. If I worked 20, 312k/yr.

Even the free standing EDs here are paying 190 an hr with a volume of less than 15 a day.
I could work 24 hrs a week and make 237k/yr.

Let this sink in. I could work four 24 hr shift a month seeing .6pt/hr (mostly quick care) and make close to the 250k/yr ED avg.

I think EM docs are overpaid compared to other specialists.

I am currently typing while vacationing in a condo on the beach with no pager, no patient responsibilities b/c I have alot of time off.

Before we had kids, my wife and I took atleast 6 vacations a year. Not many other specialists have this much time off while making so much money.

Most specialists would kill to make 300k per yr working 24 hrs a week.
Click to expand...

What cities or states are you getting these offers from?

emergentmd said:
I have always been curious as to why the "average" ED pay (250k) was so low. This avg has to include people working urgent care, part time, etc. There is no way the 250k avg is for the typical avg workload in an ED where you are required to be board certified.

I am board certified, a partner for the past 6 yrs, work in a city usually rated as one of the top to live in, 11 yrs removed from residency. I work 7 hr shifts, 14 days a month. That works out to 1176 hrs/yr. I work in a typical 40K community ED and see about 2.5/hr. This comes out to about 24 hrs/week.

Last year, I pulled in 390K. 52K in my Sep. 10K in my HSA/Business expences. My group pays for my mal practice/health insurance.

I would say if you included my mal practice/health insurance, my total package is close to 480K or about $400/hr.

I get offers from other groups ALL the time offering atleast $300/hr. I know I can moonlight and get $350/hr tomorrow and work as many hours as I would like

So all these statistics showing ED docs making the avg of all specialists is Crap. Take out all of the urgent care docs, all of the docs doing part time, non boarded EM docs and I would be shocked if mose were not making 300k/hr.

If avg was 36hr/week at $400/hr, I would be at over 700k/yr.
Click to expand...

Could you give us an idea of what States have these options?
 
Texas.

Austin may be alittle lower but not that much less than $300/hr.

There are free standing EDs opening up in Austin like wildflower and the going rate is 190/hr seeing 15pts/day.
 
There is a little hyperbole and exaggeration regarding the compensation in Texas in this thread. You will make much less than $300/h in Austin. $300/h jobs do exist in Texas but this compensation is nowhere near the mean compensation. Jobs that pay $300/h will generally extract a significant pound of flesh (or part of your soul) in return for monetary compensation. Austin is the lowest paying location in the state secondary to quality of life. The majority of jobs in Texas are independent contractor gigs with no benefits (no healthcare, no disability, no retirement contributions). Most freestanding gigs pay around $170/h.
 
fuegofrio17 said:
There is a little hyperbole and exaggeration regarding the compensation in Texas in this thread. You will make much less than $300/h in Austin. $300/h jobs do exist in Texas but this compensation is nowhere near the mean compensation. Jobs that pay $300/h will generally extract a significant pound of flesh (or part of your soul) in return for monetary compensation. Austin is the lowest paying location in the state secondary to quality of life. The majority of jobs in Texas are independent contractor gigs with no benefits (no healthcare, no disability, no retirement contributions). Most freestanding gigs pay around $170/h.
Click to expand...

What are the top cities then?
 
I can tell you with certainty that what I am stating is fact and not exaggerated.

I avg $225/hr in a major texas city working 26hrs a week or 1350 a year. It adds up to $305k/yr Gross. My partner distribution added another $100k. My SEP IRA funding was 52k. My HSA $6500. My business expenses $10k.

This gave me a total compensation of $473k. I also had my Malpractice/health insurance covered by the group (which in essence was by me). This is worth about 15k if I was an IC.

So my package last year was 488K working 26hrs/week. This comes out to $360/hr.

I apologize to anyone if my numbers in the above thread was somewhat inflated but I was doing my calculations from memory. The numbers I am quoting is from my filed taxes for 2012.

Also, I have a few friends in Austin and some working at free standings. The Freestanding IC rate is 190 for 2 doc and $175 for the other doc I know. Some do 12 hrs and 24 hr shifts.

I can tell you with confidence that the rate in Austin for either big is around $190/hr that does not include benefits (retirement/SEP, health, mal practice, bonuses, etc).

I would say after everything is accounted for, they are at $250/hr minimum
 
deuist said:
West BFE
East BFE
South BFE
North BFE
Oklahoma
Click to expand...

Lol, I meant in Texas.

emergentmd said:
I can tell you with certainty that what I am stating is fact and not exaggerated.

I avg $225/hr in a major texas city working 26hrs a week or 1350 a year. It adds up to $305k/yr Gross. My partner distribution added another $100k. My SEP IRA funding was 52k. My HSA $6500. My business expenses $10k.

This gave me a total compensation of $473k. I also had my Malpractice/health insurance covered by the group (which in essence was by me). This is worth about 15k if I was an IC.

So my package last year was 488K working 26hrs/week. This comes out to $360/hr.

I apologize to anyone if my numbers in the above thread was somewhat inflated but I was doing my calculations from memory. The numbers I am quoting is from my filed taxes for 2012.

Also, I have a few friends in Austin and some working at free standings. The Freestanding IC rate is 190 for 2 doc and $175 for the other doc I know. Some do 12 hrs and 24 hr shifts.

I can tell you with confidence that the rate in Austin for either big is around $190/hr that does not include benefits (retirement/SEP, health, mal practice, bonuses, etc).

I would say after everything is accounted for, they are at $250/hr minimum
Click to expand...

Just as an aside, when we are all searching for our first jobs - do you recommend trying to work @ places that have partnership opportunities vs big corporate groups? Should that be a priority or what?
 
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