San Juan Bautista Loses LCME Accreditation

[Temperature101]

@DermViser ... I don't understand the argument here... Is this a LCME requirement that MD school must have a teaching hospital? cause I am not sure this is also a COCA requirement since I interviewed at a DO school that did (still does) not have a teaching hospital....

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[DermViser]

@DermViser ... I don't understand the argument here... Is this a LCME requirement that MD school must have a teaching hospital? cause I am not sure this is also a COCA requirement since I interviewed at a DO school that did (still does) not have a teaching hospital....

D.O. schools are accredited differently from M.D. schools. San Juan Batista's main hospital for the teaching of their MS-3 students went into bankruptcy. If you don't have a facility for your MS-3s to do clinical rotations, that is a problem as you need that to graduate medical students.

@Temperature101, also, might want to stay away from that school.

 

[maxxor]

D.O. schools are accredited differently from M.D. schools. San Juan Batista's main hospital for the teaching of their MS-3 students went into bankruptcy. If you don't have a facility for your MS-3s to do clinical rotations, that is a problem as you need that to graduate medical students.

@Temperature101, also, might want to stay away from that school.

Won't this be changing as ACGME and AOA merge? Or is that only for residencies? I wish they'd stop opening DO schools all over the place, especially the ones that "give you the freedom to arrange your own clerkships". During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.

All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Won't this be changing as ACGME and AOA merge? Or is that only for residencies? I wish they'd stop opening DO schools all over the place, especially the ones that "give you the freedom to arrange your own clerkships". During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.

All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

Changes only apply to residencies. DO and MD schools have separate accrediting bodies and requirements.

Agree with the bolded. It also means that there is little to no guarantee of the quality or educational content of those clerkships.

 

[DermViser]

Won't this be changing as ACGME and AOA merge? Or is that only for residencies? I wish they'd stop opening DO schools all over the place, especially the ones that "give you the freedom to arrange your own clerkships". During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.

All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

Residencies are accredited by the ACGME. Med schools are accredited by the LCME or COCA.

Funny, Caribbean medical schools do the same thing. Go figure.

This is why PDs scrutinize the school you go to, bc the quality of your MS-3 rotations is important. If you get to pick and choose your own, you'll pick sites in which you can game it for "Honors" without actually learning anything. There was one SDN thread here about a person who was wondering how he would fare on internship, bc on his Surgery rotation he was always off by 3 pm, and he just studied for the Surgery shelf the whole rotation.

 

[QuieroPan]

@Temperature101, also, might want to stay away from that school.

Really, really? What are you on about now? For your information, I not only got into this school but I also was accepted to a mainland MD school and two DO schools. The mainland MD school was 120k more expensive over 4 years and it is not a very famous school either. Do you think it would have been smart to take out 320k in loans over 4 years instead of 200k? I did my research before deciding to attend by talking to 4 program directors of different residencies and fellowships in both of the areas in which I have a strong interest (allergy and emergency medicine). I asked them what they would do in my situation and they told me to come here and save the money because LCME accredited is LCME accredited as long as you are not talking about like a top 20 or something like that, and that my step 1 score and third-year grades will matter significantly more than the reputation of my medical school in particular as long as it is LCME accredited. They dismissed the two DO schools as options right away for the specialties that interest me. I asked them if the school's history matters and they told me that it does not because it is clearly a different school from what it was back then because it has maintained its accreditation continuously since having it restored, and because it is now fully accredited and off of probation, sooo I am not sure why you are urging people to stay away from this school. I know that you probably think I am stupid for choosing this school over a significantly more expensive mainland MD or DO school. What would you have done differently? Why shouldn't I trust the word of program directors who supervised programs in specialties that interest me? If they thought this school's history was a big red flag then they would have told me so and advised me to go to one of the other schools to which I was accepted. I chose to come here for the cheaper tuition but also bc I was raised bilingual and I wanted the opportunity to do my clinicals in Spanish in an area of the US where the technology is not always on the same level as that in the states. It is my impression that doctors don't order tests here as frequently as they would for patients on the mainland and there also seems to more of a focus on learning how to give an excellent physical exam in light of the fact. Now if you see anything in my post which you would like to dispute please go ahead sir/ma'am, but if not I would kindly ask you to stop warning people away from my school. I am proud of it. I also like the fact that there is a heavy focus on serving underserved patients. Many hospitals on the mainland pay lip service to their idea but do not really involve their students in the community. I am going to have so many opportunities to perform school-coordinated medical community service during the four years as well as go on medical mission trips if I choose to to help improve the health of patients in other countries down here in Latin America.

Somehow I doubt that people will take your advice anyway, derm, considering how competitive US MD admissions are these days (and yes this school is a US MD school because Puerto Rico is a US territory). I predict that the number of applications this cycle will increase at least 25-30% due to the fact that the school is now fully accredited. By the way, derm, we were told that San Juan Bautista now holds the highest average step 1 score among the three private LCME schools on the island. This could be bc the school instituted NBME exams for students, so we now take NBME exams in our core courses in years 1 and 2 which can obviously help contrtibute to a better step 1 score.

Temperature I would urge you to do your research on this school and not just listen to what some person says on a forum. Come visit the school if you would like. The school has worked so hard since the fall to improve its reputation. It really isn't fair to have someone on here warning you away from it as if it were a Caribbean school or something. It is far from a Caribbean school. Do you know what your residency application will say fourth year if you decide to apply here and are accepted? US MD senior. Your application will go in the pile with the other US MD seniors. Dermviser might suggest that you go to a DO school or an unaccredited Caribbean school with a better "reputation" but reputation doesn't mean anything when you are comparing US MD and non-US MD. It is always better to be a US MD in the match. And I am not taking anything away from DOs when I write that. Many DO schools have higher averages than the four schools here in Puerto Rico but that is because for the majority of us here (and remember please that there are only 300 or so first-year medical students on the island total and only about 1200 total, so basically similar in size to a LARGE mainland MD school like Wayne State), English is not the language that we learned first in life. Derm quoted the poor step 1 passage rate earlier in the school's history. The other schools here have had their issues with the step as well. Would you like to have taken your step exams in Spanish, derm? How about your MCAT verbal? Would you have liked to take that in Spanish? But the fact that our step 1 scores have improved due to rigid NBME prep is a testament to the hardworking Puerto Rican students at all schools on the island, not only here.

As for clinical rotation spots there are tons of affiliations that have been formed by the SJB SOM in the past year or so.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

D.O. schools are accredited differently from M.D. schools. San Juan Batista's main hospital for the teaching of their MS-3 students went into bankruptcy. If you don't have a facility for your MS-3s to do clinical rotations, that is a problem as you need that to graduate medical student

@Temperature101, also, might want to stay away from that school.

Wow... Why would you advise someone not to go to a US accredited school? I was told that LCME accreditation process is rigorous... Would you advise him/her to choose a carib school or a DO school over that school?

I am not sure this is a sound advice if that person is interested in competitive specialties...

 

[QuieroPan]

Wow... Why would you advise someone not to go to a US accredited school? I was told that LCME accreditation process is rigorous... Would you advise him/her to choose a carib school or a DO school over that school?

Plz see my post above, it is incredibly rigorous. And this school had to undergo rigorous changes and rigorous reviews in order to maintain its probation and to be removed from probation and be fully accredited. I don't know what derm is thinking when he talks about the clinical rotations here as if nothing has changed since 2011. Even when the school lost accreditation, they had OTHER affiliations with other institutions besides the bankrupt hospital. Since then, the school has added MANY MANY more, including institutions like the VA hospital in San Juan (which is an incredibly important hospital here). A couple of years ago the Puerto Rican government divided the island into four different health regions, giving each school responsibility for a part of the island basically in terms of improving community health, so this school has an area of the island all to itself with Puerto Ricans hungry to be served by community physicians and physicians in training. His words are incredibly arrogant and out of place on a forum like this which is supposed to respect diversity. He insinuates with his words that the LCME only restored the accreditation of San Juan Bautista because of a lawsuit which is demonstrably false but worse than that, he simply makes things up, launching darts and insulting the quality of the school's presently available clinical rotations when he has no knowledge of how things are happening right now. This school is on the move, BestDoctorEver.

Does this look like a crappy rotation to you Derm?

http://www2.va.gov/directory/guide/facility.asp?ID=714

Here is a quote from the VA Puerto Rican site for you to read for yourself:

"The VA Caribbean HCS as active affiliations with the four LCME accredited medical schools in Puerto Rico; University of Puerto Rico(UPR), Universidad Central del Caribe, Ponce School of Medicine, and San Juan Bautista Medical School. Over 900 trainees residents, interns, and students are trained at this facility each year. There are medical residents from 23 different specialties residency-training programs, seven of which are sponsored by the San Juan VA Medical Center. Has an institutional Accreditation Council Graduate Medical Education Council (ACGME) accreditation plus accreditation from the American Dental Association and the American Dietetics Association. Has training programs in Clinical Psychology and Primary Care Pharmacy. There are academic affiliations with nine different Nursing schools and also Dental, Pharmacy, Dietetics, Social Work, Occupational and Physical Therapy, Psychology, Laboratory, Radiography, Surgical, Cardiovascular Technology and Respiratory Therapy academic affiliations."

And besides the hospital next door to the medical school was bought by perhaps the most well-run and best-regarded private hospital chain here in PR a couple of years ago. I have been inside the hospital and some of the things that are going on there are incredible.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@QuieroPan ... I am not sure why the accreditation was taken away from this school since I did not read the whole thread, but since I have been in SDN, I have never seen anyone suggest to choose DO/Carib over a US MD school. So that is why I was kind of curious why @DermViser would suggest that... I understand it might be because of the accreditation issue, but since they (LCME) have restored the accreditation, I am not sure it's wise to tell someone to choose carib over that school... For DO, it might be a different story if the person is interested in primary care, or has some geographic limitation, or COA of that DO school is lower...

Edit.. Are you a student or part of the administration of that school?

 

[DermViser]

Wow... Why would you advise someone not to go to a US accredited school? I was told that LCME accreditation process is rigorous... Would you advise him/her to choose a carib school or a DO school over that school?

I am not sure this is a sound advice if that person is interested in competitive specialties...

Did you EVEN READ the post I was replying to??

Quote:
During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.
All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

Western is a D.O. school. I told him I would not to go to that school, esp. if he has to arrange his own clerkships. Where did he say he was applying to SJB?, and where did I recommend Carribbean schools? @maxxor is actually a resident already.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Did you EVEN READ the post I was replying to??

Quote:
During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.
All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

Western is a D.O. school. I told him not to go to that school, esp. if he has to arrange his own clerkships. Where did he say he was applying to SJB?

I read it (no need to capitalize here)... Maybe my interpretation is incorrect... I got that you say temp101 to stay away from that school in Puerto Rico, which is a LCME accredited... Maybe you can clarify it for me... Anyway, I have no interested in the matter since I am NOT applying to med school (already got my spot)...

 

[QuieroPan]

@QuieroPan ... I am not sure why the accreditation was taken away from this school since I did not read the whole thread, but since I have been in SDN, I have never seen anyone suggest to choose DO/Carib over a US MD school. So that is why I was kind of curious why @DermViser would suggest that... I understand it might be because of the accreditation issue, but since they (LCME) have restored the accreditation, I am not sure it's wise to tell someone to choose carib over that school... For DO, it might be a different story if the person is interested in primary care, or has some geographic limitation, or COA of that DO school is lower...

Edit.. Are you a student or part of the administration of that school?

Student. Not posted much on here but posted in March in the accepted student thread but was accepted earlier. Are you enrolled here? I am very passionate about this school. I think it has a very bright future.

 

[DermViser]

I read it (no need to capitalize here)... Maybe my interpretation is incorrect... I got that you say temp101 to stay away from that school in Puerto Rico, which is a LCME accredited... Maybe you can clarify it for me... Anyway, I have no interested in the matter since I am NOT applying to med school (already got my spot)...

First, we don't know what Temperature's other options are. My point is I would be very wary of a school that has you arrange your own clerkships. Period.

 

[QuieroPan]

Did you EVEN READ the post I was replying to??

Quote:
During flights for residency interviews, I sat next to some DO student who went to Western and was telling me that BS about how flexible the school is about clerkships.
All I could think is "you have to arrange your own clerkships!?"

Western is a D.O. school. I told him I would not to go to that school, esp. if he has to arrange his own clerkships. Where did he say he was applying to SJB?, and where did I recommend Carribbean schools? @maxxor is actually a resident already.

Don't yell at him because you have difficulty expressing yourself in your first and only language. Your post was very ambiguous.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Student. Not posted much on here but posted in March in the accepted student thread but was accepted earlier. Are you enrolled here? I am very passionate about this school. I think it has a very bright future.

No... I am in the mainland, but I know a MS-IV from that school who did very well on step1... He told me it's a good school... I ask you because you seem to take that too personal... since usually students don't care why people in SDN said about their schools... you seem to be passionate about the school.. GL anyway.

 

[DermViser]

Plz see my post above, it is incredibly rigorous. And this school had to undergo rigorous changes and rigorous reviews in order to maintain its probation and to be removed from probation and be fully accredited. I don't know what derm is thinking when he talks about the clinical rotations here as if nothing has changed since 2011. Even when the school lost accreditation, they had OTHER affiliations with other institutions besides the bankrupt hospital. Since then, the school has added MANY MANY more, including institutions like the VA hospital in San Juan (which is an incredibly important hospital here). A couple of years ago the Puerto Rican government divided the island into four different health regions, giving each school responsibility for a part of the island basically in terms of improving community health, so this school has an area of the island all to itself with Puerto Ricans hungry to be served by community physicians and physicians in training. His words are incredibly arrogant and out of place on a forum like this which is supposed to respect diversity. He insinuates with his words that the LCME only restored the accreditation of San Juan Bautista because of a lawsuit which is demonstrably false but worse than that, he simply makes things up, launching darts and insulting the quality of the school's presently available clinical rotations when he has no knowledge of how things are happening right now. This school is on the move, BestDoctorEver.

Does this look like a crappy rotation to you Derm?

http://www2.va.gov/directory/guide/facility.asp?ID=714

Here is a quote from the VA Puerto Rican site for you to read for yourself:

"The VA Caribbean HCS as active affiliations with the four LCME accredited medical schools in Puerto Rico; University of Puerto Rico(UPR), Universidad Central del Caribe, Ponce School of Medicine, and San Juan Bautista Medical School. Over 900 trainees residents, interns, and students are trained at this facility each year. There are medical residents from 23 different specialties residency-training programs, seven of which are sponsored by the San Juan VA Medical Center. Has an institutional Accreditation Council Graduate Medical Education Council (ACGME) accreditation plus accreditation from the American Dental Association and the American Dietetics Association. Has training programs in Clinical Psychology and Primary Care Pharmacy. There are academic affiliations with nine different Nursing schools and also Dental, Pharmacy, Dietetics, Social Work, Occupational and Physical Therapy, Psychology, Laboratory, Radiography, Surgical, Cardiovascular Technology and Respiratory Therapy academic affiliations."

And besides the hospital next door to the medical school was bought by perhaps the most well-run and best-regarded private hospital chain here in PR a couple of years ago. I have been inside the hospital and some of the things that are going on there are incredible.

Your evidence of how great clerkship rotations are at your medical school, is to show that you guys rotate at a VA? Seriously?

#1 -- have you ever done an MS-3 clerkship at a VA?

#2 -- have you talked with actual residents who are required to rotate in the VA?

Apparently, you haven't heard about the VA scandal here in the mainland United States.

 

[DermViser]

I read it (no need to capitalize here)... Maybe my interpretation is incorrect... I got that you say temp101 to stay away from that school in Puerto Rico, which is a LCME accredited... Maybe you can clarify it for me... Anyway, I have no interested in the matter since I am NOT applying to med school (already got my spot)...

I said for @Temperature101 to stay away from the D.O. school that he was referring to in his post. Read it again ----> "since I interviewed at a DO school that did (still does) not have a teaching hospital...." No one told him to go to a Carribean school and I never said that SJB was a Carribean school.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Your evidence of how great clerkship rotations are at your medical school, is to show that you guys rotate at a VA? Seriously?

#1 -- have you ever done an MS-3 clerkship at a VA?

#2 -- have you talked with actual residents who are required to rotate in the VA?

Apparently, you haven't heard about the VA scandal here in the mainland United States.

This is not also an evidence that their clerkships are bad... My friend at a top MD school is rotating at a VA hospital right now... You guys should stop using anecdotes...

 

[QuieroPan]

Your evidence of how great clerkship rotations are at your medical school, is to show that you guys rotate at a VA? Seriously?

#1 -- have you ever done an MS-3 clerkship at a VA?

#2 -- have you talked with actual residents who are required to rotate in the VA?

Apparently, you haven't heard about the VA scandal here in the mainland United States.

Keep right on moving goal posts. I know about it but I know the VA scandal has to do with a huge backlog of veterans waiting for care and that backlog was covered up. I've read studies that say that the VA actually provides very decent health care, but the problem with it is lack of access to that very good care. And seriously you should come to Puerto Rico. It isn't like we are surrounded by hospitals like Mass General and such to rotate at. What would you suggest the medical schools here do? Just send their third and fourth year students to the states for rotations? Maybe buy spots for their students at hospitals in NYC like some of the Caribbean schools have done?

You haven't provided evidence to back up your claim that students from this school will be in bad shape in the residency process and that the school will be judged for its past clinical issues. If you were me would you have gone to the mainland MD school for 120k more? Or the DO school? Maybe if you don't have financial concerns it would be a good idea, but for me no. I am not looking at highly lucrative specialties, I think allergy and emergency medicine make around 240k on average. I don't like the idea of having a loan balance higher than the salary of an attending in the future field. I talked to program directors. They said to come here. What makes you think you know more than them? You're a dermatologist or something? I am not interested in derm, but even if I was, I know people who have matched it from other Puerto Rican schools and there have been some excellent matches out of San Juan Bautista in recent years including into top 10 internal medicine programs. You will not see those kinds of matches out of DO or Caribbean schools.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I said for @Temperature101 to stay away from the D.O. school that he was referring to in his post. Read it again ----> "since I interviewed at a DO school that did (still does) not have a teaching hospital...." No one told him to go to a Carribean school and I never said that SJB was a Carribean school.

Got it... It was about DO schools...Most DO schools don't have teaching hospitals anyway... Lol..

 

[QuieroPan]

No... I am in the mainland, but I know a MS-IV from that school who did very well on step1... He told me it's a good school... I ask you because you seem to take that too personal... since usually students don't care why people in SDN said about their schools... you seem to be passionate about the school.. GL anyway.

I do take it personally because he is trashing my school. And I think students on here would if their schools had this school's history and had worked hard to earn their well-deserved full accreditation.

 

[QuieroPan]

Got it... It was about DO schools...Most DO schools don't have teaching hospitals... Lol..

Please notice that he still has not answered the question of whether he would choose to go to a DO school or come here. Why not?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I am out of this thread guys/gals...

 

[DermViser]

This is not also an evidence that their clerkships are bad... My friend at a top MD school is rotating at a VA hospital right now... You guys should stop using anecdotes...

What I was saying, is that having a VA as a rotation site is not "special". There are tons of schools that have VAs close by who send their residents and medical students there.

 

[DermViser]

Got it... It was about DO schools...Most DO schools don't have teaching hospitals anyway... Lol..

You are correct, most DO schools don't have their own teaching hospitals. And ACGME program directors know this.

 

[DermViser]

Please notice that he still has not answered the question of whether he would choose to go to a DO school or come here. Why not?

DO schools also run the gamut between very good and very poor. So it depends what school you're talking about, esp. most of us and our families live on the mainland. Also, if someone wishes to take the risk of going to SJB due to the possibility of being put on probation or losing accredidation during their time there, they are more than happy to do so. No one is stopping them.

 

[QuieroPan]

DO schools also run the gamut between very good and very poor. So it depends what school you're talking about, esp. most of us and our families live on the mainland. Also, if someone wishes to take the risk of going to SJB due to the possibility of being put on probation or losing accredidation during their time there, they are more than happy to do so. No one is stopping them.

That is a dodge. Since you seem to like hypotheticals (I guessed this by your desire to imply them in your posts), here's one for you. Assume that SJB maintains their full accreditation after the site visit in two years. Now please assume then that the people who are now first years are applying in the 2018 match after having spent their entire medical school careers under full LCME accreditation,which is te case because the first semester here does not technically begin until August. Now give me some basis for which the residency directors would discriminate against the students. You want a DO vs MD example? Ok North Texas osteopathic is considered a good DO school maybe the very best. North Texas osteopathic vs SJB. You think TCOM's rep can overcome the fact that their applicant is an independent non-USMD applicant while the SJB applicant is a US MD senior?

you have a very pessimistic way of looking at things. A more reasonable view, which also happens to be my view, is that a school that lost accreditation briefly and worked two and a half hard years to have it fully restored is not likely to have this happen to them again. The only way I could understand this point of view is if you tell me that you think that the LCME only restored SJB to full accreditation this past month because of political pressure stemming from a lawsuit two and a half years ago. Do you think that the LCME holds SJB to lower standards? Considering that Ponce and I think Central Caribe have also been on probation in recent years, I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion if that is what you think. But if you think that way I can understand your point of view. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Obviously someone who thinks that PR schools like SJB are held to lower standards by the SJB would have the view that a residency director would judge an applicant from a fully accredited LCME school as somehow lesser than an applicant from another accredited LCME institution. But if you do feel that way then your beef would be with the LCME, and if the LCME treats some schools softer than others (due to lawsuit or due to geographical considerations (there is a huge physician shortage here after all), then the LCME accreditation is not worth as much as people think it is. I don't believe this because the LCME did yank their accreditation which was not a soft action. on the other hand if you don't believe that the LCME played soft and you do think that SJB earned their full accreditation, then their past should have nothing to do with how the school is now. It is a different school.

 

[DermViser]

That is a dodge. Since you seem to like hypotheticals (I guessed this by your desire to imply them in your posts), here's one for you. Assume that SJB maintains their full accreditation after the site visit in two years. Now please assume then that the people who are now first years are applying in the 2018 match after having spent their entire medical school careers under full LCME accreditation,which is te case because the first semester here does not technically begin until August. Now give me some basis for which the residency directors would discriminate against the students. You want a DO vs MD example? Ok North Texas osteopathic is considered a good DO school maybe the very best. North Texas osteopathic vs SJB. You think TCOM's rep can overcome the fact that their applicant is an independent non-USMD applicant while the SJB applicant is a US MD senior?

you have a very pessimistic way of looking at things. A more reasonable view, which also happens to be my view, is that a school that lost accreditation briefly and worked two and a half hard years to have it fully restored is not likely to have this happen to them again. The only way I could understand this point of view is if you tell me that you think that the LCME only restored SJB to full accreditation this past month because of political pressure stemming from a lawsuit two and a half years ago. Do you think that the LCME holds SJB to lower standards? Considering that Ponce and I think Central Caribe have also been on probation in recent years, I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion if that is what you think. But if you think that way I can understand your point of view. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Obviously someone who thinks that PR schools like SJB are held to lower standards by the SJB would have the view that a residency director would judge an applicant from a fully accredited LCME school as somehow lesser than an applicant from another accredited LCME institution. But if you do feel that way then your beef would be with the LCME, and if the LCME treats some schools softer than others (due to lawsuit or due to geographical considerations (there is a huge physician shortage here after all), then the LCME accreditation is not worth as much as people think it is. I don't believe this because the LCME did yank their accreditation which was not a soft action. on the other hand if you don't believe that the LCME played soft and you do think that SJB earned their full accreditation, then their past should have nothing to do with how the school is now. It is a different school.

You realize that the North Texas Osteopathic school's students are applying as MS-4s also, correct? They aren't applying as independent applicants. Also, your "non-USMD applicant" label doesn't make sense as they are US citizens at a US school on the mainland.

"Obviously someone who thinks that PR schools like SJB are held to lower standards by the SJB would have the view that a residency director would judge an applicant from a fully accredited LCME school as somehow lesser than an applicant from another accredited LCME institution."

You realize that this happens now, right? LCME accredidation is the MINIMUM standard that allopathic medical schools in the United States have to meet. Residency program directors are well aware that medical students across all LCME med schools are not alike. Certain medical schools are known to put out good graduates and thus PDs work to try to recruit those graduates. Vanderbilt's medical school will be judged quite differently from Meharry's medical school. Each medical school has a track record with respect to their graduates.

I realize you want to cheerlead for your school, as an entering MS-1, but you seem to be quite detached from the reality of things. I like by the way, how you twist this around and try to blame the LCME for SJB's failings.

 

[Ions]

@DermViser

You should stop antagonizing QuieroPan and berating SJB. I find a little disrespectful and distasteful that someone would do that. If anything, you should be happy/congratulating us that we were able to have our school probation status lifted. I can't fathom the thought as to why any other student would be unhappy, question or be somewhat wary of the LCME decision to lift the school's probation status. It doesn't make me happy that there are other medical schools on probation and, if their probation status is lifted with the next visit, I would be happy for that school and glad that they were able to achieve such goal. I can't imagine why a medical student, or even, a decent human being, that would be upset or concern as to why the LCME lifted a probation status of a school. As for as I'm concern, if a probation status is lifted, it's lifted. I wouldn't be questioning why or cast doubts as to why the probation status was lifted. Obviously, SJB fixed the areas that were flagged by the LCME and that's why the full accreditation status was gain. It demonstrated to the LCME that it's a fully capable medical school and that is what matters. At the end of the day, it's a huge weight lifted off SJB's shoulders and I'm glad my school has finally earned back their reputation. All medical students have a common goal, which is to become MDs. I'm happy that my school has done what was needed to be done to have it's probation status lifted and to have granted me, and many others, the opportunity for me to become what I've always wanted to become, a doctor.

@QuieroPan

Just leave it alone. I don't know if you have ever heard the expression "La gente solamente recuerda lo malo que uno ha hecho."

Well, that's exactly what is going on here. No matter what SJB does, the only thing people are going to remember it for is that fact that they lost their accreditation back in 2011. No amount of good reputation or fixing is ever going to take that away. Unfortunately, that's the way the cookie crumbles and, unfortunately, that is how the school is going to be remembered by and people will always belittle us because of it. We just have to ignored it, keep our heads held high, and remind ourselves that we are just as good as any other medical school, especially now that we are off probation. Don't let some random user on SDN ruin your day or upset you, it isn't worth it.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Okay. Enough of me reading this crap thread without responding.

DermViser was initially being antagonistic. Clearly QuieroPan's first interaction with him on this forum. However, later on this page (meaning after the whole 'lawsuit against LCME is the only reason they were changed to probation' since it is a matter of opinion, not fact),

QuieroPan, you don't have to be the white knight for your school. To me, anybody staunchly defending your school so stringently makes think they are insecure about their school.

Here's my 2 unbiased cents:
1) SJB lost accrediation (which was changed to probation) and now are fully accredited. Good for them. Your comparisons of SJB to Ponce and Caribe are completely pointless to this discussion.
2) PDs in the US do NOT consider all LCME accredited schools to be equal. I cannot speak to whether PDs have any sort of bias against US MD schools stationed in Puerto Rico.
My opinion is that it there would likely be some bias against them, greatest in programs that 1) never accepted a student from PR medical schools and/or 2) are farther away geographically from puerto rico.
3) I would personally never recommend anybody to pass an admission at an LCME-accredited (not on probation) US MD school to go to a DO school, and definitely not for a Carib school. In your example, I can't think of a student that would be applying to both SJB and North Texas osteopathic (although I haven't even heard of that, is it really a top DO school?), but hypothetically, I would recommend SJB if the student was proficient in Spanish. Being in medical school and having to learn a second language are NOT things that should be done at the same time.
4) Even if the schools in Puerto Rico do things in Spanish and English, they should expect all NBME-related exams to be in English. I don't really care about the entering average MCATs and GPAs of PR students, but the average Step 1 at the school is an important factor to consider for prospective students. It's great that SJB is taking steps to correct their Step 1 issues, but the excuse of "well, they do things in Spanish too" is just that, an excuse.

 

[Ions]

@evilbooyaa

I don't think QuieroPan is trying to be the white knight of SJB, but I do believe that being a first year student has a lot to do with he/she's reaction. QuieroPan is just starting medical school, something that is rigorously hard to do, and came online to spread the word that his/her school has finally got their probation status lifted, only to receive a response from another user antagonizing it.

I can see where QuieroPan is coming from. It's a bit annoying and frustrating how something that should have been good news turned into a nasty argument because of DermViser tactless comments.

 

[DermViser]

@evilbooyaa

I don't think QuieroPan is trying to be the white knight of SJB, but I do believe that being a first year student has a lot to do with he/she's reaction. QuieroPan is just starting medical school, something that is rigorously hard to do, and came online to spread the word that his/her school has finally got their probation status lifted, only to receive a response from another user antagonizing it.

I can see where QuieroPan is coming from. It's a bit annoying and frustrating how something that should have been good news turned into a nasty argument because of DermViser tactless comments.

If truth is tactless, then guilty as charged.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If truth is tactless, then guilty as charged.

Lol...

 

[evilbooyaa]

@evilbooyaa

I don't think QuieroPan is trying to be the white knight of SJB, but I do believe that being a first year student has a lot to do with he/she's reaction. QuieroPan is just starting medical school, something that is rigorously hard to do, and came online to spread the word that his/her school has finally got their probation status lifted, only to receive a response from another user antagonizing it.

I can see where QuieroPan is coming from. It's a bit annoying and frustrating how something that should have been good news turned into a nasty argument because of DermViser tactless comments.

Welcome to an anonymous internet forum. Anyone that lets DV (or anyone, really) rustle their jmmies at this point isn't paying attention.

That being said, you can't just blindy defend your lower tier MD school and start subliminally claiming it's better than other schools that are currently on probation, like Baylor.