saving money vs. going to the school you really want to go to

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[RuralPhysician8]

Yes, it is a serious problem for obvious reasons; however, it is not the end of the world. In your case, if you can be frugal and still put something in your savings frequently, then I would say go for it; however, be prepared for undergrad debt plus medical school debt...most financial advisors recommend having debt that is no more than twice your annual salary as your career choice. So do what you can to keep it under the $375,000 mark. Obviously though we cannot predict what future costs and salaries will be so we can only estimate based on current conditions and hope for the best. I am kind of paranoid about this, so I chose a nice state school that is giving me free tuition, so long as my GPA stays decent.

 

[SN12357]

I'm torn between saving money or going to the undergrad institution I really want to go to. I've been hearing all this news about how people are worried about rising college costs and increasing debt. How much of this is really true? Is it seriously becoming a major problem or is it just media hype?

It depends on the difference.

20k more to go to your dream undergrad school? Might be worth it.

150k more to go to your dream school? No. Not worth it. I am a nontrad in my mid twenties and I know a lot of people with deep regrets about the amount of debt they have. It can cripple your life and when you're starting college you really have no way to comprehend how until you are an adult, angry that everyone told you educational debt was 'good debt'.

If you know you want to be a doctor, and know you'll be taking on THAT debt later, you dont' want to hobble your lifestyle with massive undergrad debt, too.

 

[Bear Grylls]

No debt > prestige, in today's world.

If the school is cheaper, you've got to make a threshold number of how much more $ you are willing to pay to go to a better school, dependent on family contributions, how much you want to take inloans, etc.

For some it may be 80k over four years, others 150, others 40. Depends on the circumstances.

Keep in mind that med school has its costs too. A state school isn't bad. My friends are at Hopkins, Harvard, mayo, Baylor, etc. and we went to the same state flagship university which is not in the top 10.

 

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[pyrrion89]

I'm torn between saving money or going to the undergrad institution I really want to go to. I've been hearing all this news about how people are worried about rising college costs and increasing debt. How much of this is really true? Is it seriously becoming a major problem or is it just media hype?

I hope I have this dilemma... because it means I've been accepted to at least two schools!

 

[WestCoastNative]

I guess it comes down to how much more your dream school will cost. Undergrad shouldn't really matter if you're going for an M.D./D.O. I can see why people try getting into the best schools possible if they want masters and Ph.Ds, but for an M.D. it shouldn't matter. Like everyone else, I'd recommend you go a school that's somewhat recognized and cheap. Don't gun for the best schools, or dream schools, as an undergraduate. Just have a dream medical school 😛, but don't get your hopes up and expect to get in lol.

 

[SN12357]

Thanks for the input guys. My dream institution is double the cost it takes to attend my state univ. My state school is definitely not anywhere near the top 10, or top 100 even...but at the same time, neither is my school i want to go to =/

So, in my experience, the very top tier schools (Ivy, Stanford, MIT) have value attached to the name. Not to the point where it's worth going into six figures of debt for them, but yes, some value of going there even if it's a bit more expensive than public schools.

Expensive private schools that are not in that tier, but somehow still charge 55-60k/year? No. Absolutely not.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I hope I have this dilemma... because it means I've been accepted to at least two schools!

I think he's talking about UG, which isn't nearly as big a of deal to have two acceptances.

OP, take the state school, especially since it seems like the more expensive school in question won't give you any better job prospects (assuming no medical school). People don't realize how much debt sucks until they are knee deep in it.

 

[kyamh]

I chose to attend a private school and ended up with about 80k in debt and it was the best decision of my life. I got a superb education in a very small setting (classes never more than 30 people and no TA's or graduate students around), was able to take advantage of study abroad programs while easily finishing a major and pre-med requirements, and I was able to get ahead in things like research very easily. When you are at a state school and are competing not only with hundreds of premeds and other undergrads but also with graduate students, it is much harder (and I have a lot of respect for people who manage this) to do some of the following:

getting meaningfully involved in high level research with your own project and funding
getting into all the classes you want to take
getting great letters of recommendation (I could have asked upwards of 10 professors for recommendations because classes were tiny and I knew them all well)

 

[Flashfan]

Taking out anything more than the Federal loan limits is a lousy idea for undergrad. Run a loan calculator and see the difference. I couldn't do it. Can you find a school that gives great merit aid that is closer to what you want?

 

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[DokterMom]

I chose to attend a private school and ended up with about 80k in debt and it was the best decision of my life. I got a superb education in a very small setting (classes never more than 30 people and no TA's or graduate students around), was able to take advantage of study abroad programs while easily finishing a major and pre-med requirements, and I was able to get ahead in things like research very easily. When you are at a state school and are competing not only with hundreds of premeds and other undergrads but also with graduate students, it is much harder (and I have a lot of respect for people who manage this) to do some of the following:

getting meaningfully involved in high level research with your own project and funding
getting into all the classes you want to take
getting great letters of recommendation (I could have asked upwards of 10 professors for recommendations because classes were tiny and I knew them all well)

Excellent point -- Some small schools make it much easier for a motivated student to really stand out and get the kind of professorial attention that can make for a truly outstanding education and unusually strong letters of recommendation. (For med. school or career placement)

But if *neither* school is all that well ranked or well known, then maybe neither is the best choice for you.

The BEST college is one that will really engage you in learning, challenge you, provide opportunities, etc. Yes, opportunities EXIST at every school, but sometimes there's a LOT of competition for a limited number of spots -- even for core classes you'd need to graduate on time. Or a culture that's more sports or Greek-focused that could easily pull you off track. A large university can also make it really easy to blend into the background and just go along for the ride. (Or offer more opportunities than a small school if you're aggressive about seeking them out.)

While it seems to be true that once you graduate from medical school, no one will care where you did your undergrad, consider also that maybe only about 10-15% of the high school students who plan on going to medical school actually manage to do it. Between the weed-out classes, the 'my GPA's too low - I won't even bother, the awful MCAT and the 60-65% who aren't accepted even after clearing all the hurdles --- It makes sense to plan for Plan B.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I was talking about UG. Actually, the more expensive school in question does have a med school, while the state school does not so I don't know how big of a factor that is?

My bad, I meant "assuming no medical school" in that the job prospects of the two schools would matter if you didn't go to medical school.

 

[SN12357]

Excellent point -- Some small schools make it much easier for a motivated student to really stand out and get the kind of professorial attention that can make for a truly outstanding education and unusually strong letters of recommendation. (For med. school or career placement)

But if *neither* school is all that well ranked or well known, then maybe neither is the best choice for you.

The BEST college is one that will really engage you in learning, challenge you, provide opportunities, etc. Yes, opportunities EXIST at every school, but sometimes there's a LOT of competition for a limited number of spots -- even for core classes you'd need to graduate on time. Or a culture that's more sports or Greek-focused that could easily pull you off track. A large university can also make it really easy to blend into the background and just go along for the ride. (Or offer more opportunities than a small school if you're aggressive about seeking them out.)

While it seems to be true that once you graduate from medical school, no one will care where you did your undergrad, consider also that maybe only about 10-15% of the high school students who plan on going to medical school actually manage to do it. Between the weed-out classes, the 'my GPA's too low - I won't even bother, the awful MCAT and the 60-65% who aren't accepted even after clearing all the hurdles --- It makes sense to plan for Plan B.

If Plan B is not going to medical school, Plan B is the situation in which you're a new grad in the current job marketplace, and having debt or not having debt can be the difference between living comfortably and living in a ****hole apartment, sending more than your rent payment to pay your loans every week, and not being able to take chances or risks because you don't to default on your loans. Chasing a prestige name or a picture-perfect college experience doesn't count for much once you graduate and the job market for new grads is legitimately horrible.

College is what you make of it. People coast along and waste their time in ivies. People at large state schools excel and seek out the mentoring they need. The most significant variable in your college experience isn't the college--it's YOU.

 

[kyamh]

I don't know if I would be able to take a hold of all those opportunities (study abroad, research etc) due to the extra costs involved :/

This is very much something to ask individual schools. At my school, people who qualify for work-study can do research and get paid for it, we similarly have generous summer grants to do research and still take away a good income at the end of the summer. I did research and worked an on-campus job at the same time to cover my expenses. Similarly, many study abroad programs don't actually cost you any more than going to your home institution (you may have to cover airfare) so if you don't go crazy spending money abroad you can still go and have the experience while paying the same money per semester.

 

[Bear Grylls]

Not to mention you'll probably have more fun at your state school

 

[040111333]

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[deleted547339]

Save your money, homes.

 

[RuralPhysician8]

ehh I'm not so sure. My state school is probably the most boring one out there :/

Really? My state school has its own fair every year and more free food than I have been able to stomach. Then again it could just be the size.

 

[Dbate]

Go to the cheaper school!

College "prestige" doesn't matter at all. I say that as an ivy graduate. You can and will be successful regardless of where you go and the MOST important thing as a pre-med is to graduate with little debt.


Don't let bullsh*t like small class sizes and other non-sense sway your decision. Seriously, sit down and ask your parents. Not random people on the internet who do not have a vested interest in your life and its outcomes.

You should not trust people on the internet in general (including me), but I would honestly advise you to go to the cheaper school.

Everyone ends up enjoying the college they attend and graduating with little or no debt is invaluable, especially when you realize that you are going to be accruing interest throughout med school and taking on more debt.


So a 40K difference in debt might end up being 60 or 80K in the future. Think about how it would feel to send the federal government hundreds of dollars each month. It would suck.

 

[SN12357]

Go to the cheaper school!

College "prestige" doesn't matter at all. I say that as a ivy graduate. You can and will be successful regardless of where you go and the MOST important thing as a pre-med is to graduate with little debt.


Don't let bullsh*t like small class sizes and other non-sense sway your decision. Seriously, sit down and ask your parents. Not random people on the internet who do not have a vested interest in your life and its outcomes.

You should not trust people on the internet in general (including me), but I would honestly advise you to go to the cheaper school.

Everyone ends up enjoying the college they attend and graduating with little or no debt is invaluable, especially when you realize that you are going to be accruing interest throughout med school and taking on more debt.


So a 40K difference in debt might end up being 60 or 80K in the future. Think about how it would feel to send the federal government hundreds of dollars each month. It would suck.

I agree with everything you said except ranking parents above the advice of, sad to say, random people on the internet. Parents are often more concerned with prestige than their kids, OR don't have the economic/financial knowledge to properly advise their children. Some of the worst debt loads among people I know are because their parents urged them to 'pursue their dreams, no matter the cost'.

Maybe the OPs parents will give them good advice, maybe they won't.

 

[Gauss44]

I'm torn between saving money or going to the undergrad institution I really want to go to. I've been hearing all this news about how people are worried about rising college costs and increasing debt. How much of this is really true? Is it seriously becoming a major problem or is it just media hype?

How expensive are the schools you're considering? If you can cover the cost of tuition and room and board with federal loans, scholarships, grants, and savings, then go where you want. If you need to take out private student loans, be careful, and maybe just don't go.

2 Warnings:

1. Some expensive schools will give you a great financial aid package the first year to attract you to the school. Then after that, they might give you less aid each year, requiring you to fill the gaps with private student loans. You need to call the school to ask about the price of TUITION and other costs, and about how much aid you can get EVERY year.... (If they say they're not sure, ask: "Can you tell me if any amount is certain? For example, if I were to have zero income, could I get federal stafford loans each year?" They should say yes and give you an amount. "Okay, what else could I get?" "What other forms of aid?" "Now, can everybody get that, or are their requirements?") Know what you will definitely get and what you may or may not get. (Another good question you can ask each school's financial aid office: Can they give you all of the money you are eligible for? Some schools run out of funds so they give out money on a "first come first serve" basis. If they run out, you are given the option of a private student loan or using your savings assuming you have savings.)

2. About a typical private student loan, The Sallie Mae Signature Loan.

-not dischargeable in disability, death, or bankruptcy*

-limited deferments and forbearances (including in-school deferments): Once these run out, Sallie Mae is unlikely to postpone payments for any reason including unemployment, etc.

-higher interest rates than federal loans (Double check this one. It was true when I was in school.)

-customer service is worse than calling Dell Computers (Example here: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1296248/ In that example, I was lucky I spoke with someone who spoke fluent English. That's not always the case.)

-count your debt and anticipated payments: If you are taking out private student loans, chances are you are in some substantial debt. A payment on $100,000 of student loans can easily be over $700 a month or even $1000 a month. (To put this in context, most full time research assistant jobs in Boston that I've seen pay between $30k and $39k a year before taxes and health insurance deductions your employer will take out.)

-anything lenient you hear about student loans is probably about federal loans only, not private student loans (except the tax benefit: If you make less than around $50k, you can deduct part of your student loan payments up to $2000 est.)

(*For the sake of telling the full story about student loans and bankruptcy: Those who initiate an adversary proceeding in addition to filing bankruptcy, on very rare occasion, will have some or all of their loans discharged, but it's entirely up to the judge. Do not count on this.)

The reason I post this is that it is always better to know this stuff ahead of time. Even if it doesn't all apply to you, someone down the line in a similar situation might read this as well. If anyone wants to know how to get through college cheaply, a good book might be in the works: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1296158/

 

[dap]

Another strong recommendation here for the cheaper option. No school is going to put you where you want to go, your own ability and more importantly work ethic will determine that. Go to the least expensive undergrad program you can. Get a decent GPA, get involved with something you are passionate about outside of classes, crush the MCAT.

Going to a cheap state school where I was able to graduate debt-free is one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life, and has allowed me to do really cool things during my summers and my 2-3 years between UG and medical school.

 

[DokterMom]

Another strong recommendation here for the cheaper option. No school is going to put you where you want to go, your own ability and more importantly work ethic will determine that. Go to the least expensive undergrad program you can. Get a decent GPA, get involved with something you are passionate about outside of classes, crush the MCAT.

Going to a cheap state school where I was able to graduate debt-free is one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life, and has allowed me to do really cool things during my summers and my 2-3 years between UG and medical school.

Bear in mind that all of this advice is coming from people who GOT INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL or are planning on getting in.

If you ignore the very real chance that you won't get in, then you're not considering all of the relevant facts.

If I'm hiring someone fresh out of school and have three applicants, one from Podunk, one from State U, and one from Ivy, who do you think I will be most interested in interviewing? Ten years into a career, will be much less true, but if Ivy guy got the better first job than Podunk guy, and both climbed at a similar rate, Ivy guy will still be better off.

Just make sure the more expensive school truly has more to offer -- It absolutely isn't always the case.

 

[SN12357]

Bear in mind that all of this advice is coming from people who GOT INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL or are planning on getting in.

If you ignore the very real chance that you won't get in, then you're not considering all of the relevant facts.

If I'm hiring someone fresh out of school and have three applicants, one from Podunk, one from State U, and one from Ivy, who do you think I will be most interested in interviewing? Ten years into a career, will be much less true, but if Ivy guy got the better first job than Podunk guy, and both climbed at a similar rate, Ivy guy will still be better off.

Just make sure the more expensive school truly has more to offer -- It absolutely isn't always the case.

I may be planning on getting into medical school but I've spent several years in the workforce, including being involved in hiring new grads, and my peers are the ones with the debt and the regrets.

I'm guessing from your username that you're older than mid-twenties and probably working off assumptions about the amount and implications for undergraduate debt that just aren't true anymore.

And I went to one Ivy and work at a different one now. I am well aware of what name-brand colleges do and don't mean in the workforce. Ivy league means jack in terms of identifying good employees.

The current job market for new grads is worse and more uncertain in many ways than medical school, which is the clearly defined path. If you want freedom as a new grad without a clearly defined career path, hunting down entry level jobs that frequently don't have benefits, or are short-term? You don't want debt hanging around your neck, dragging you down, forcing you to live in your parent's basement. You don't have the near-guarantee of employment that successful completion of medical school provides.

If you are hedging for a non-medical Plan B in the current economic climate, avoiding debt is MORE important, not less. Fall into default? Bad credit score? Look forward to potentially failing employer background/credit checks, not being able to get an apartment, being rejected for car loans, and a cascade of other large and small indignities that make it harder and harder to dig out of the hole.

 

[princessbooty]

I would chose the school that costs less than your dream school. You can still get into whatever med school you want from just about any undergrad institution. What matters more is that where ever you go, to excel in your endeavors. I personally don't think it's worth the debt for the superficiality for going to to a prestigious undergrad. All that money can be used for a great med school. I ended up taking a full tuition scholarship and going to a less prestigious undergrad. I haven't felt like my undergrad has been any less better than if I had chosen to go to Stanford. I know several individuals who chose an Ivy League over a less prestigious school and they complain to me about how hard the classes are and how much competition there is, etc. I also know of people from Ivy Leagues attending less prestigious med schools and people from state institutions attending Harvard. So my point is: just go where ever the money is and you won't regret.

 

[princessbooty]

I have honestly have no regrets going to a decent but not prestigious school. Throughout my undergrad experience (I'm a junior), I was able to avoid the numbing academic competition that would otherwise be present at the top 10 undergrads. With my extra time, I was able to raise $10,000 for a non-profit I started, get two 1st author papers into Nature Leukemia and pull in about ~$300,000 in grants by helping my PI write grants/manuscripts in addition to doing all the usual premed things.

 

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[040111333]

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[SN12357]

I know I definitely want to go to medical school (I don't really have a plan B for a career). So you're saying that it doesn't matter whether you go to an IVY or large unranked public school as long as you save money and do well?

I'm not saying there is no difference, but the positives added by going to an Ivy are more than counterbalanced by not having debt.

So, no debt at all, yes, Ivy is probably better than a random state school. The name has some value.

But mid 5 figures debt and up? No. Not worth it at all. You'll be better off somewhere else that is cheaper, and you will still have lots of opportunities.

And in terms of state vs. the expensive mid and low range private schools...absolutely not. You gain little and lose a lot with the debt.

 

[minuteman]

Where you go to school does matter, but it is difficult to quantify. Students from elite prep/high schools have a better chance of getting into an Ivy; people at Ivy's have a better chance of getting into elite medical schools, residencies, etc. This may be unfair, as we all want a meritocracy, but there is an advantage. I suspect less to do with the quality of the education and more to do with the available resources, alumni assistance, and just perceived value. Individuals from elite schools are put on a different tract than others and are presumed to be of higher caliber. I don't like it, but that is how it is. Of course there are exceptions, but there is a value. I would like to think that if I just work hard and get good grades and test scores that finally life will be fair. It isn’t. I am fine with that.

 

[princessbooty]

Who would you choose: a brilliant student on a substantial scholarship going to a state institution with impressive accomplishments or an Ivy Leaguer with generic premed activities? You can judge for yourself who gets into the top

 

[Gauss44]

In order to save money, I will have to sacrifice on having the fun undergrad experience and dorm life. It will be just like going to summer classes every day for the next three years, as my state school is predominately a commuter school.

Still worth it?

Also apply for scholarships. Apply to both schools. Call both school's financial aid offices and ask about where to find scholarships to apply for. Tell your dream school's financial aid office that cost is the only thing keeping you from going there. They might say that that's true of many people. They might become more generous (if you're speaking to an actual financial aid officer who is capable of distributing funds). That happened to a friend of mine. If you go in person, look at who you are talking with. Sometimes having a parent go in and say that going there "has been your dream" has a bigger effect. (In fact, if you walk into the financial aid officer's office and you notice that s/he is likely to be more responsive to anyone close to you that knows your situation, consider having that person come back with you next time. This can turn favoritism in your favor.)

The financial bottom line is not the cost of tuition before scholarships. It is the cost of tuition and other expenses minus scholarships, grants, etc. Just make sure that you are going to get funding EVERY year, not just your first year! You need to apply to the school, and for financial aid before you will know.

If you end up at the cheaper school, join student groups early on, if there are any. Even though you said it's a commuter school, do they have dorms? If so, maybe you could pay to stay in the dorms for your 1st semester to make friends and then move home - or wherever you would commute from.

EDIT: And have you considered working at your dream school? Some colleges provide free or reduced tuition to employees. Although probably difficult to find, there might be evening job for the college that allow you to study on the job and get free or reduced tuition. This may not be the best option, but I wanted to mention it anyway.

 

[Flashfan]

There are thousands of schools out there and you are acting like you only have two choices. Look for good schools that offer good scholarhsips. It is only September. If your grades are good enough and your SAT scores high enough there are full-tuition scholarships at good schools. Apply for full-ride programs. Go on to college confidential and look at the list of schools with great aid. It sounds like you just want us to tell you to go have fun and get in debt.

 

[DokterMom]

There are thousands of schools out there and you are acting like you only have two choices. Look for good schools that offer good scholarhsips. It is only September. If your grades are good enough and your SAT scores high enough there are full-tuition scholarships at good schools. Apply for full-ride programs. Go on to college confidential and look at the list of schools with great aid. It sounds like you just want us to tell you to go have fun and get in debt.

Best advice yet.

 

[040111333]

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