School Advice?

[Rupa rani]

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Hi everyone,

I was recently accepted to Western and Scholls. I am having a hard time choosing between the two. Any advice from anyone? should I try to apply to other schools? I like the research aspect of both schools.

 

[air bud]

Hi everyone,

I was recently accepted to Western and Scholls. I am having a hard time choosing between the two. Any advice from anyone? should I try to apply to other schools? I like the research aspect of both schools.

Tell me you nothing about podiatry without telling me you know nothing about Podiatry. Research lol 😅

 

[Feli]

Probably <1% of practicing podiatrists do research.

Try reading around the forums a bit.

The general wisdom is go wherever is cheaper (tuition plus living, minus any fairly easy renew scholarships).
Residency is what matters for podiatry... all of the schools do basically the same thing.
I think Western is about $75k/yr, right? (sorry... it's actually $77.6k first year, plus interest)

 

[Rupa rani]

Tell me you nothing about podiatry without telling me you know nothing about Podiatry. Research lol 😅

I mean both institutions spoke on their current research. Especially on biomechanics and diabetic care. I thought it was interesting to see how both are working on different care tactics. Your comment was unnecessary and you wasted both our time. Have a good day though.

 

[deleted285117]

Consider family

I mean both institutions spoke on their current research. Especially on biomechanics and diabetic care. I thought it was interesting to see how both are working on different care tactics. Your comment was unnecessary and you wasted both our time. Have a good day though.

Go where it’s more affordable. Also consider your proximity to home/family. The residency maketh the man, not the school. You’ll have plenty of time to worry about research after your survive the first few years of pod school. Best of luck to you.

 

[Weirdy]

You should not be choosing schools based strictly on their research emphasis.
Consider board pass rates, number of externships allowed, student support.

 

[AttackNME]

Honestly the man makes the man. I’ve seen people come out of top tier programs who can’t operate or have the drive to do good work. I chose my school based on highest scholarship offer, no regrets 🤣

Rupa pick the school you will regret the most to miss out on

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Choose a school with at least a 90% 1st time pass rate on APMLE Part 1. You don't want to end up $500k in debt without a residency.

 

[shadesofgrey]

Proper order of picking a podiatry school in my opinion:

1) Any DO/MD that will pick you, waitlist you, or give you half a chance of an interview
2) Reapply for above next year after retaking MCAT
3) Consider PA, NP, or CRNA
4) The cheapest possible podiatry school. The vast majority of hate for this profession is related to the poor return on investment for many podiatrist. A 150k salary goes a lot further if your loans are 200k and not 400k. I'm not sure what the residency requirements are for the new Texas school, but it might be worth doing the math on moving down there for the minimum amount of time to try and get cheaper tuition. Maybe try step 2 (above) while moving to Texas for 12 months?

 

[heybrother]

There are a few ways to pick your podiatry school.

#1 - "The I can't live anywhere else approach." This probably mostly applies to east coasters, but essentially people who live in NY want to go to school in NYC because the rest of the country doesn't exist or something like that. In doing this you are likely commiting to go to school in NY, to residency in NY, and to probably practice in NY. The problem with this approach is that everyone else in the country knows that the training and practice of podiatry in NY is terrible and also CoL is overpriced. Try and find a person from NYC who thinks the residency training there is strong. NY trained podiatrists elsewhere in the country trip over themselves to tell students not to go to NY. West coasters who employ this strategy ie. I have to be in California are setting themselves up for indescribable cost of living issues. Presumably there are Pennsylvanians/east coasters who also believe Temple is the place to be.

#2 - "The prestige approach / AKA DMU forever, DMU Harvard of podiatry or maybe Scholl/Arizona." The history of podiatry schools is that none of them through time would ever publish their pass rates / residency match rates except for DMU. So back in the day DMU was the only podiatry school with published rates and they were essentially crushing every other school for like 20 years. They were probably picker on how they picked students. First DO/DPM curriculcum school. I went to DMU. DMU isn't perfect, but I'd go there again. The science/medicine course were top notch. Grain of salt - there were always students in the past coming on here to talk about how stupid something was at NY or Barry or Kent. Never felt that way at DMU. It also happened to be the cheapest cost of living through time. Probably also helps that if you are willing to live in Iowa you probably aren't an east coaster so your job prospects will be better afterwards. I'm sure there's people who feel that way about Arizona because of its high matriculation stats and potentially better weather. I've met people who were certain Scholl was awesome. The heart of this is - whenever someone on here says "all podiatry schools are the same" - there are going to be people who don't feel that way. This forum through time had a solid chorus of people who were very pro-DMU.

#3 - "Scholarships". This isn't an unreasonable idea for picking a school. The problem through time is that the scholarships had to be earned (and can be pulled) and so you really need to focus on total coast of tuition which is probably hard to calculate. A question could be raised of whether scholarhips should be class rank based or GPA based. Scholarships aside - a lot of the cities podiatry schools are in are broken, stupid expensive. Think total cost.

#4 - "My family lives there and I can live for free". I wouldn't go to NYC (something is just too corrupt/broken/terrible) just because my family lived there, but I would probably pick any other podiatry school - even Kent or Barry - if CoL was free. This ranks up there with scholarships except you don't have to earn it or worry the school will pull it. A few years ago (...*cough* 10-12*cough) if you could get free cost of living you could be a podiatrist for like a bit over $100K. How do I know this? Cause I did it. My wife worked. If everyone in this field was $100K in debt the world would be a better place for podiatrists.

#5 - "I can study on the beach". Barry is for you. You may not be a podiatrist when its all said and done though. Maybe you'll be a model or an instagram influencer.

#6 - "I am a South American Orthopedic surgeon who escaped Hugo Chavez". Barry is actually probably the place for you.

#7 - "LDS". Sort of under the impression Arizona is the place for you.

#8 - "Its the week before podiatry school starts and I just realized I love feet." You probably believe that Scholl, Temple, or Kent is just the perfect place for you.

#9 - "Something meaningless about the school has caught my eye ie. research. Cool. Do your thing. Let us know how many papers you have published by the time you are practicing. Please though. Please, please, please - do not pay for a masters. Dear lord.

#10 - "I want a really, really, really DO focused curriculum even though I won't be a DO". Arizona or Western.

#11 - "I'm from Texas." Based on cost there's a pretty solid case that you should suffer it up on the border. Shibuya is amazing though. Listening to that guy for 3 years could really take you places.

#12 - "I value diversity". ...historically probably not DMU.

#13 - "I want a school with amazing clinics/pathology". This was clasically the Temple/NY talking point. The clinic just has such amazing pathology. That said, whenever I talk to people who trained at these schools they always say something like - "Yes, Temple had amazing toenail pathology". Or "Yes, NY was an amazing nail jail".

 

[air bud]

I mean both institutions spoke on their current research. Especially on biomechanics and diabetic care. I thought it was interesting to see how both are working on different care tactics. Your comment was unnecessary and you wasted both our time. Have a good day though.

You will learn more about diabetic care and biomechanics by being in the arena than at some computer. If you are going to do Podiatry school do whatever is cheapest. You will succeed based on yourself or your school.

Edit - if you want to learn biomechanics? Go to the school with the best anatomy lab. Understanding of anatomy>some biomechanics lab that breaks saw bones.

One great advantage of my residency upon retrospect was the anatomy lab. Having 4 plus cadavers a year to practice on and dissect was incredible experience. I continue to go to Arthrex and Stryker cadaver courses to practice and then at the end just dissect and refamiliarize myself with anatomy. Always come away with different perspective or appreciation.

 

[Rupa rani]

You should not be choosing schools based strictly on their research emphasis.
Consider board pass rates, number of externships allowed, student support.

Hi! Yes. I am also looking at board pass rates. To be completely frank with you, only Western disclosed their previous "all-time low" while I asked about board rates at all the other interviews I was in. In terms of externships, it seems western has more on the west coast especially California while Rosalind has more on the east coast. I have also tried messaging a few students on FB and IG to see how they like their schools in terms of student support and it seems its coming neck to neck. I am also considering a scholarship. I was given more at Scholls vs. Western. Thank you for your reply!

 

[Rupa rani]

Honestly the man makes the man. I’ve seen people come out of top tier programs who can’t operate or have the drive to do good work. I chose my school based on highest scholarship offer, no regrets 🤣

Rupa pick the school you will regret the most to miss out on

Thank you for this advice! you are right. Right now I am kinda choosing between scholarships! Thank you for the advice!

 

[Rupa rani]

There are a few ways to pick your podiatry school.

#1 - "The I can't live anywhere else approach." This probably mostly applies to east coasters, but essentially people who live in NY want to go to school in NYC because the rest of the country doesn't exist or something like that. In doing this you are likely commiting to go to school in NY, to residency in NY, and to probably practice in NY. The problem with this approach is that everyone else in the country knows that the training and practice of podiatry in NY is terrible and also CoL is overpriced. Try and find a person from NYC who thinks the residency training there is strong. NY trained podiatrists elsewhere in the country trip over themselves to tell students not to go to NY. West coasters who employ this strategy ie. I have to be in California are setting themselves up for indescribable cost of living issues. Presumably there are Pennsylvanians/east coasters who also believe Temple is the place to be.

#2 - "The prestige approach / AKA DMU forever, DMU Harvard of podiatry or maybe Scholl/Arizona." The history of podiatry schools is that none of them through time would ever publish their pass rates / residency match rates except for DMU. So back in the day DMU was the only podiatry school with published rates and they were essentially crushing every other school for like 20 years. They were probably picker on how they picked students. First DO/DPM curriculcum school. I went to DMU. DMU isn't perfect, but I'd go there again. The science/medicine course were top notch. Grain of salt - there were always students in the past coming on here to talk about how stupid something was at NY or Barry or Kent. Never felt that way at DMU. It also happened to be the cheapest cost of living through time. Probably also helps that if you are willing to live in Iowa you probably aren't an east coaster so your job prospects will be better afterwards. I'm sure there's people who feel that way about Arizona because of its high matriculation stats and potentially better weather. I've met people who were certain Scholl was awesome. The heart of this is - whenever someone on here says "all podiatry schools are the same" - there are going to be people who don't feel that way. This forum through time had a solid chorus of people who were very pro-DMU.

#3 - "Scholarships". This isn't an unreasonable idea for picking a school. The problem through time is that the scholarships had to be earned (and can be pulled) and so you really need to focus on total coast of tuition which is probably hard to calculate. A question could be raised of whether scholarhips should be class rank based or GPA based. Scholarships aside - a lot of the cities podiatry schools are in are broken, stupid expensive. Think total cost.

#4 - "My family lives there and I can live for free". I wouldn't go to NYC (something is just too corrupt/broken/terrible) just because my family lived there, but I would probably pick any other podiatry school - even Kent or Barry - if CoL was free. This ranks up there with scholarships except you don't have to earn it or worry the school will pull it. A few years ago (...*cough* 10-12*cough) if you could get free cost of living you could be a podiatrist for like a bit over $100K. How do I know this? Cause I did it. My wife worked. If everyone in this field was $100K in debt the world would be a better place for podiatrists.

#5 - "I can study on the beach". Barry is for you. You may not be a podiatrist when its all said and done though. Maybe you'll be a model or an instagram influencer.

#6 - "I am a South American Orthopedic surgeon who escaped Hugo Chavez". Barry is actually probably the place for you.

#7 - "LDS". Sort of under the impression Arizona is the place for you.

#8 - "Its the week before podiatry school starts and I just realized I love feet." You probably believe that Scholl, Temple, or Kent is just the perfect place for you.

#9 - "Something meaningless about the school has caught my eye ie. research. Cool. Do your thing. Let us know how many papers you have published by the time you are practicing. Please though. Please, please, please - do not pay for a masters. Dear lord.

#10 - "I want a really, really, really DO focused curriculum even though I won't be a DO". Arizona or Western.

#11 - "I'm from Texas." Based on cost there's a pretty solid case that you should suffer it up on the border. Shibuya is amazing though. Listening to that guy for 3 years could really take you places.

#12 - "I value diversity". ...historically probably not DMU.

#13 - "I want a school with amazing clinics/pathology". This was clasically the Temple/NY talking point. The clinic just has such amazing pathology. That said, whenever I talk to people who trained at these schools they always say something like - "Yes, Temple had amazing toenail pathology". Or "Yes, NY was an amazing nail jail".

Hi, This is extremely good advice! thank you for mapping this out. As a first-generation and immigrant student, a lot of the advice I got from the podiatrists I shadowed wasn't as helpful, as it did not pertain to my life or situation. This advice is very helpful. Thank you again for really breaking this out for me!

 

[Feli]

Hi! Yes. I am also looking at board pass rates. To be completely frank with you, only Western disclosed their previous "all-time low" while I asked about board rates at all the other interviews I was in. In terms of externships, it seems western has more on the west coast especially California while Rosalind has more on the east coast. I have also tried messaging a few students on FB and IG to see how they like their schools in terms of student support and it seems its coming neck to neck. I am also considering a scholarship. I was given more at Scholls vs. Western. Thank you for your reply!

All schools have the same clerkships and potential residency placements available.
Some pod schools offer more months pre-match of clerkships or a more favorable schedule than others.

There are only a couple residency programs (out of 200+) that only take clerks/residents from the local pod school, but they're below avg programs. That should not be a factor.

Western and Scholl are both avg pod schools, but again, any of the pod schools do the same thing (degree, clerkships, get you to a residency). You'll have to study for courses and boards and clerkships mostly on your own regardless of where you go. The general wisdom is to try to come out with the least debt and the best residency match that you can... GL.

 

[Rupa rani]

Probably <1% of practicing podiatrists do research.

Try reading around the forums a bit.

The general wisdom is go wherever is cheaper (tuition plus living, minus any fairly easy renew scholarships).
Residency is what matters for podiatry... all of the schools do basically the same thing.
I think Western is about $75k/yr, right? (sorry... it's actually $77.6k first year, plus interest)

Hi there! I am trying to read a little more into the different forums to get more insight. I am considering the cheaper tuition. From what it looks like, with my scholarships offered and housing costs, Scholls may be the ideal spot for affordability. Unless Western decides to match my scholarships at Scholls. In terms of residency, I don't have a preference for either the west coast or the east coast. I do like that I have seen more residency programs with more students from Scholls. Lastly, yes, western is around 78K in the first year. They haven't offered much financial aid at the moment. While Scholls has offered some. The research was a bonus bc I have a strong research background and everyone in my family has diabetes. It's certainly not gonna be the factor that makes me choose one school over the other!

Thank you for taking the time to give me advice! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[Rupa rani]

All schools have the same clerkships and potential residency placements available.
Some pod schools offer more months pre-match of clerkships or a more favorable schedule than others.

There are only a couple residency programs (out of 200+) that only take clerks/residents from the local pod school, but they're below avg programs. That should not be a factor.

Western and Scholl are both avg pod schools, but again, any of the pod schools do the same thing (degree, clerkships, get you to a residency). You'll have to study for courses and boards and clerkships mostly on your own regardless of where you go. The general wisdom is to try to come out with the least debt and the best residency match that you can... GL.

Ouuu this is all such good info. Thank you for sharing again! I know some of this might be general info but even with shadowing podiatrists and constantly bugging schools, no one gives definite answers like these. Appreciate you!

 

[Feli]

... In terms of residency, I don't have a preference for either the west coast or the east coast....

You should care to get a QUALITY podiatry residency.
There is huge variation among our residency programs (read the forums) in terms of hospital size, teaching, numbers and types of surgery cases, medical learning, academics... it's faaar from MD/DO where most programs same specialty are fairly same/similar/adequate and most grads ACGME programs will pass their boards and have same/similar job options.

That is a key thing to realize about podiatry: podiatry residencies are standardized in length only (3 year)... they are not well regulated in quality, case volume, board pass rate. In podiatry, some grads get basically a trash residency while most get mid, some get higher level training. It really is a night and day difference. Try to be one of the higher level ones if you want to have a better shot at decent ROI on the degree and more job options.

At then end of the day, nobody cares where you went to pod school... what matters is you pass exams, prepare well for clerkships, match to a good residency, have good skills and job options (all of which with lowest debt reasonably possible).

 

[Rupa rani]

You should care to get a QUALITY podiatry residency.
There is huge variation among our residency programs (read the forums) in terms of hospital size, teaching, numbers and types of surgery cases, medical learning, academics... it's faaar from MD/DO where most programs same specialty are fairly same/similar/adequate and most grads ACGME programs will pass their boards and have same/similar job options.

That is a key thing to realize about podiatry: podiatry residencies are standardized in length only (3 year)... they are not well regulated in quality, case volume, board pass rate. In podiatry, some grads get basically a trash residency while most get mid, some get higher level training. It really is a night and day difference. Try to be one of the higher level ones if you want to have a better shot at decent ROI on the degree and more job options.

At then end of the day, nobody cares where you went to pod school... what matters is you pass exams, prepare well for clerkships, match to a good residency, have good skills and job options (all of which with lowest debt reasonably possible).

You are right. I meant I would be happy with any good residency (in the future regardless of the location). As long as they are teaching and giving me the proper opportunities and are well-established.

Wouldn't some schools have better contacts for residency programs than others? Wouldn't it be better to stick with that school? Also yes! Definitely will be trying very hard to ensure my boards are top-notch (when I get there bc I haven't even picked a school rn lol).

 

[air bud]

You are right. I meant I would be happy with any good residency (in the future regardless of the location). As long as they are teaching and giving me the proper opportunities and are well-established.

Wouldn't some schools have better contacts for residency programs than others? Wouldn't it be better to stick with that school? Also yes! Definitely will be trying very hard to ensure my boards are top-notch (when I get there bc I haven't even picked a school rn lol).

Just remember this. Podiatry residency ≠ MD/DO residency. All the things that you think would happen with any well run medical residency.....does not apply to Podiatry. It just doesn't.

Disclosure: past performance doesn't not equal future success. Invest at your own risk.

 

[Forcewielder]

I went to Scholl and I thought it was one of the better schools based on my experience on rotations, as a resident working with externs, and just based on reputation. I do believe DMU may be the best overall. Their clerkship schedule made more sense and they are more selective. That said, I would have a hard time living in Iowa for that long. I also felt that Scholl had much better core rotations. You'll see way more in your emergency med or IM rotations in Chicago. It's the wild west. Granted, you may get mugged walking in so there's that... getting your car broken into was a rite of passage as well.

Tuition and cost of living should be your main concerns though. Scholl is far enough north that it's cheaper to live there than most of the schools. Western being 75k for 1st year is borderline criminal. This job doesn't have the ROI for 400k in loans.

Good luck.

 

[Feli]

I went to Scholl and I thought it was one of the better schools based on my experience on rotations...

Yeah, both the clerkship schedule and the prep can't be understated.
The end goal for pod school is not a new video lab or nice library or a cool campus... it's to secure a good residency and to not get in too much debt. Every pod school has the same books and cadavers and takes the same board exams.

I think Scholl is one of the schools that starts clerkships the soonest and has the most pre-interviews clerkship months.
The clerkship academic prep is mostly on the student (manuals, journals, books, videos), but you still want max number of rotation months to create options. That's the best way to match well.

What I don't get is the pod schools with 4 month cores... seems like you'd much rather be doing those fourth year 4 months at 4 podiatry residency locations. That severely limits their clerkship opportunities, but I guess they don't have enough local teaching hospitals arranged to do ER, gen surg, int med, etc during 3rd year. That non-podiatry stuff is all fine and good, but it should've been done 3rd year and it won't help you to match a good residency (and you'll do those med/surg off-podiatry rotations again in residency anyways).

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Hi everyone,

I was recently accepted to Western and Scholls. I am having a hard time choosing between the two. Any advice from anyone? should I try to apply to other schools? I like the research aspect of both schools.

At the end of the day go to the cheaper program. Both are great programs and you can land a residency of your choice. Make sure to use the search function as well as this topic has been discussed in the past, many times. Good luck!

Closing!