MD School List Help: 3.66/520

[riley29]

Hi guys, this is my second time around seeking school list advice. Last time, I was urged to get some longitudinal care shadowing experience, which I now have done. Also added gap year employment.

Looking to Application for the 2017 cycle. Stats are as follows:

• cGPA/sGPA: 3.66/3.64 (upward trend Freshman 3.49, Sophomore 3.60, Junior 3.73, Senior 3.96)
• MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 520/130/129/130/131
• State of residence: New Jersey, USA
• Ethnicity and/or race: Caucasian

School list as follows. Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine (+interest in 3med + uro res.)
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine (OOS)
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry

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[ScreenName23]

Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine (+interest in 3med + uro res.)
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine (OOS)
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry

In bold are the schools where your GPA is below the 10th percentile. In italics are the schools where your GPA is below the median. I don't have the GPA info on hand for your state schools but you should of course apply there regardless.

Essentially other than your state schools your whole list is either in bold or italics. You've got a great MCAT, an awesome upward trend, and from what I can tell some solid ECs. But you likely need to apply more broadly. You don't want your whole list to be places where your GPA is below average. It may workout for you anyways though because you have three solid state schools to add. It just looks a little top heavy to me right now.

Good luck!!

 

[efle]

Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer): Volunteering at Barnes-Jewish Hospital: Progressive Pulmonary Care Unit and Post-Op Orthopedic Floor - Approx. 100 hrs

Is this 100 hrs total volunteerism going to be increased at all by early July/submission time? Are you planning to continue volunteering while at NYU?

Research experience: Two years in two labs - one clinical and one basic science. At least 4 publications as middle author. Potentially more by the time of application.

Does middle author mean 2nd, or like 4th-5th? How many papers do you have currently accepted? How many submitted?

NYU SoM as a research assistant

Clinical research role with patient contact, or bench work?

 

[riley29]

Is this 100 hrs total volunteerism going to be increased at all by early July/submission time? Are you planning to continue volunteering while at NYU?


Does middle author mean 2nd, or like 4th-5th? How many papers do you have currently accepted? How many submitted?


Clinical research role with patient contact, or bench work?

100 hours total is an estimation. Should be higher all things considered. Would love to continue through gap year. Don't have anything set up at the moment, but hopefully will!

One 2nd, rest 4th. 2 accepted. 2 submitted/pending and 2 abstracts accepted to AUA and papers in progress. Assume more will be added through the year but frankly don't know exact schedule. Should have more publication from NYU next year but obvisouky don't know for sure yet.

Bench work. Would imagine I may get some patient contact as well but I shall see!

 

[riley29]

In bold are the schools where your GPA is below the 10th percentile. In italics are the schools where your GPA is below the median. I don't have the GPA info on hand for your state schools but you should of course apply there regardless.

Essentially other than your state schools your whole list is either in bold or italics. You've got a great MCAT, an awesome upward trend, and from what I can tell some solid ECs. But you likely need to apply more broadly. You don't want your whole list to be places where your GPA is below average. It may workout for you anyways though because you have three solid state schools to add. It just looks a little top heavy to me right now.

Good luck!!

Yes, that is my main concern. Looking at MSAR, my gpa is definitely on the low side for many of these schools as you point out. Of course, I would like to hope that my MCAT score as well as my major at an undergraduate institution known for a particular rigorous pre-medical curriculum should put it in context. That's why I'm here asking for all your guys help!

 

[mw18]

Hi guys, this is my second time around seeking school list advice. Last time, I was urged to get some longitudinal care shadowing experience, which I now have done. Also added gap year employment.

Looking to Application for the 2017 cycle. Stats are as follows:

I'll let the experts help you with your school list (for the record, I think you'll be just fine with a great mcat and your GPA from your undergrad), but I just wanted to tell you that your post is fairly specific and unique to you. So maybe after you get advice and get set up, go back and edit the post to have fewer identifying details. Just to keep yourself anonymous, if that's something you're interested in.

 

[riley29]

I'll let the experts help you with your school list (for the record, I think you'll be just fine with a great mcat and your GPA from your undergrad), but I just wanted to tell you that your post is fairly specific and unique to you. So maybe after you get advice and get set up, go back and edit the post to have fewer identifying details. Just to keep yourself anonymous, if that's something you're interested in.

Initially I was concerned about exactly this. But at the end of the day, I am not super concerned with who knowns any of this information about me. None of it is super personal or revealing. But fair enough, once I receive the advice I need I will consider removing identifying information. Thanks

 

[ScreenName23]

Yes, that is my main concern. Looking at MSAR, my gpa is definitely on the low side for many of these schools as you point out. Of course, I would like to hope that my MCAT score as well as my major at an undergraduate institution known for a particular rigorous pre-medical curriculum should put it in context. That's why I'm here asking for all your guys help!

I noticed the undergrad at first and then forgot it when I was posting. I think that will absolutely help given that it is a solid gpa and even better considering that undergrad. I would definitely defer to efle on this one as he will know the most about how WashU GPAs are considered.

 

[efle]

I think you look solid. No major problems. Only minor issues are the ~3.65 being a little low for some of these schools that keep 3.85-3.9 medians, and the volunteering being a little on the lower side. But, like I said these are minor, and a WashU 3.65 + 37 + ~100-150 hours volunteering is going to be fine.

You also should be able to sell yourself very convincingly as someone interested in research if you already have a couple pubs out and will likely have another couple accepted by summer submission and/or autumn interviews. Plus spending your gap doing research...I think you will have a bunch of top 20 interviews if your app has a good research oriented narrative.

One thing not mentioned is LoRs - you expecting rave reviews from mentors that know you very well? Or just ok/average letters?

Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine (+interest in 3med + uro res.)
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine (OOS)
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry

I would replace Boston (they like service >> research focus), maybe with Case Western. I'd remove Hofstra and replace with another pick from the top (Stanford loves to interview people with pubs for example).

 

[coffeeandcodeine]

I think you still have a really good shot at schools where your GPA is below the median, but your MCAT is above the median. Your stats are mismatched enough that if you only applied to places where your GPA was at or above the median, you would likely be rejected at many due to yield protection. Your odds at schools at the schools where your GPA is below the 10th percentile are significantly lower, but those schools are huge reaches for anyone. I'd keep Hofstra -- they like high MCATs and kids from top schools, but they're not so well established that they can afford to be as selective as other schools with similar LizzyM scores.

 

[efle]

I said swap Hofstra not because I think they'd pass on him, but because I feel confident he will get love from his state schools and also attention from some of the best places based on the strength of his research component. To err on the safe side would be to keep Hofstra and add a couple more of the research powerhouses.

 

[coffeeandcodeine]

Being from CA, I sometimes forget that other states actually have schools that can be considered real safeties, haha. I'd probably still err on the safe side though, but I'm pretty risk-adverse, and I'm sure he'd be totally fine without it.

I said swap Hofstra not because I think they'd pass on him, but because I feel confident he will get love from his state schools and also attention from some of the best places based on the strength of his research component. To err on the safe side would be to keep Hofstra and add a couple more of the research powerhouses.

 

[riley29]

One thing not mentioned is LoRs - you expecting rave reviews from mentors that know you very well? Or just ok/average letters?

Regarding LoR, I would say 2 excellent, 3 solid.

I think you will have a bunch of top 20 interviews if your app has a good research oriented narrative.

That's encouraging to hear! Research is something that I genuinely enjoy...I will give it my best shot to make sure that is evident.

I would replace Boston (they like service >> research focus), maybe with Case Western.

another pick from the top (Stanford loves to interview people with pubs for example).

keep Hofstra and add a couple more of the research powerhouses.

In terms of the list, it seems I should swap BU for Case, and add a couple research intensive institutions: maybe Stanford and Mayo? Other than those, I feel like most of the research heavy school are either on my list, or were omitted due to OOS (such as UCs/UNC/UWash) or because I am on the light side for service(UChicago). What others did you have in mind?

 

[riley29]

I think that will absolutely help given that it is a solid gpa and even better considering that undergrad. I would definitely defer to efle on this one as he will know the most about how WashU GPAs are considered.

Yea I am hoping that the GPA doesn't kill me. It is for sure on the low side for much of my list, but the positives are it is from a competitive school, in a touch major WashU, but who knows how med schools will view that. Don't know if this helps or is relevant, but I did take complete all my coursework in house at WashU. I know from experience many people run away to another institution for Orgo I & II for example to avoid the grade hit.

 

[efle]

Yea I am hoping that the GPA doesn't kill me. It is for sure on the low side for much of my list, but the positives are it is from a competitive school, in a touch major WashU, but who knows how med schools will view that. Don't know if this helps or is relevant, but I did take complete all my coursework in house at WashU. I know from experience many people run away to another institution for Orgo I & II for example to avoid the grade hit.

Nobody is going to worry about the academic abilities of a 3.65 from WashU + 37 MCAT. It's going to come down to your ability to sell yourself and be distinguishable from the hundreds and hundreds of other t20 grads with ~73-74 LizzyMs. As I already mentioned though I think you will have some success doing so with your research. Many many people did a few semesters of research for credits, but with multiple pubs and rave reviews from your research mentors you'd be in a smaller crowd.

 

[efle]

Regarding LoR, I would say 2 excellent, 3 solid.


That's encouraging to hear! Research is something that I genuinely enjoy...I will give it my best shot to make sure that is evident.




In terms of the list, it seems I should swap BU for Case, and add a couple research intensive institutions: maybe Stanford and Mayo? Other than those, I feel like most of the research heavy school are either on my list, or were omitted due to OOS (such as UCs/UNC/UWash) or because I am on the light side for service(UChicago). What others did you have in mind?

The top few UCs (UCSF, UCLA and UCSD) do not actually have an instate bias. They tend to interview instate applicants at a higher rate, but Californian applicants are also generally stronger than the national pool, not to mention that these are all connected/next to very large UC undergrads that are stuffed full of premeds.

If you were going to add more schools that would like the research, I'd say the above 3 UCs, UVA, UNC.

 

[riley29]

Based on the above advice the list becomes 32 schools:


Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine (OOS)
Case Western Reserve School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
Stanford University School of Medicine
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
UCLA School of Medicine (OOS)
UCSD School of Medicine (OOS)
UCSF School of Medicine (OOS)
UNC School of Medicine
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

 

[efle]

32 is pretty excessive, though you can do it if you pre-write a great deal and have no shortage of $$ for the cycle. I'd try to find half a dozen + BU to remove (and try to keep the half dozen spread over the range of schools).

 

[riley29]

32 is pretty excessive, though you can do it if you pre-write a great deal and have no shortage of $$ for the cycle. I'd try to find half a dozen + BU to remove (and try to keep the half dozen spread over the range of schools).

Yea it does seem like a lot. I think it makes sense to cut UNC. According to MSAR they only interviewed 124/4907 OOS of which only 30 ended up matriculating. UCSF and UCLA seem similar, although to less of an extreme. Taking those three off, as well as BU would leave me with 28, which admittedly still seems like a lot but is better than 32! Does that logic seem reasonable?

 

[efle]

Yea it does seem like a lot. I think it makes sense to cut UNC. According to MSAR they only interviewed 124/4907 OOS of which only 30 ended up matriculating. UCSF and UCLA seem similar, although to less of an extreme. Taking those three off, as well as BU would leave me with 28, which admittedly still seems like a lot but is better than 32! Does that logic seem reasonable?

It's a start. With a list of 28 I'd make sure to prioritize by interest levels and secondary lengths ahead of time though, so if you run out of steam you can drop a few massive time sucks (e.g. Duke, Vanderbilt) rather than never finishing a whole bunch.

I'd leave UCSF >> UCSD personally. I think the former is the more likely to go for the strong research narrative. I'd also think about whether you really would be down to live in all these locations. I skipped places in the South and in hindsight should have skipped the NYC schools because I'd never stay sane in an environment that extremely urban.

 

[riley29]

Ok so leave UCSF cut UCSD and UCLA.

Regarding location, I feel I shouldn't be too pick until the point of weighing the pros and cons on acceptances (should I get them.) I think I would enjoy living in NYC, but maybe that is just me being a naive 21-year-old. I will be living and working in NYC next year, so I think that should give me a much more accurate picture of my location preference.

 

[efle]

Ok so leave UCSF cut UCSD and UCLA.

Regarding location, I feel I shouldn't be too pick until the point of weighing the pros and cons on acceptances (should I get them.) I think I would enjoy living in NYC, but maybe that is just me being a naive 21-year-old. I will be living and working in NYC next year, so I think that should give me a much more accurate picture of my location preference.

I do know people that applied to 25+ schools, it can be done. Make sure to pre-write. You do get the benefit of never having to wonder "what-if" about applying to places, because you essentially apply to everything reasonable!

 

[riley29]

Seems reasonable. So I will go ahead and plan for this list and should I fall behind on secondaries I will prioritize by level of interest. How does this final list look @Goro ? Thank you for all you help and advice @efle !


Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
Stanford University School of Medicine
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
UCSF School of Medicine (OOS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

 

[Goro]

I fear that a mere 100 hours of patient contact experience (NOT shadowing), a complete lack of non-clinical volunteering, and tons of research will get you shot down, especially from the top schools. medicine is a service profession, and the gestalt I get from SDNers accepted into Harvard/Yale/Stanford class schools is that they have hundreds, if not thousands of hours of either patient contact and/or non-clinical service.

You have the app of someone who really would be better off in a PhD program.

You can have a research job, and do volunteering in your gap year.

Seems reasonable. So I will go ahead and plan for this list and should I fall behind on secondaries I will prioritize by level of interest. How does this final list look @Goro ? Thank you for all you help and advice @efle !


Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Keck School of Medicine at University of Southern California
New York University School of Medicine
Northwestern University the Feinberg School of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at University of Pennsylvania
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
Stanford University School of Medicine
SUNY Downstate College of Medicine (OOS)
UCSF School of Medicine (OOS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School (OOS)
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine
Weil Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine

 

[efle]

^ I had ~200 hrs of volunteering with patients, nothing significant nonclinical, and got into a couple Harvard/Stanford class schools. I have no idea how much of an outlier that makes me, but if you get yourself up to ~150 clinical volunteering by July and find more volunteering to do during your gap year, I don't think you're outright disqualified from consideration.

One way I've heard it described is that they look to build a well rounded class out of a bunch of pointy individuals - some people will have impressive research, some impressive service, etc.

What are the hours and responsibilities for the organizations you mention leadership roles in?

 

[riley29]

I fear that a mere 100 hours of patient contact experience (NOT shadowing), a complete lack of non-clinical volunteering, and tons of research will get you shot down, especially from the top schools. medicine is a service profession, and the gestalt I get from SDNers accepted into Harvard/Yale/Stanford class schools is that they have hundreds, if not thousands of hours of either patient contact and/or non-clinical service.

You have the app of someone who really would be better off in a PhD program.

You can have a research job, and do volunteering in your gap year.

^ I had ~200 hrs of volunteering with patients, nothing significant nonclinical, and got into a couple Harvard/Stanford class schools. I have no idea how much of an outlier that makes me, but if you get yourself up to ~150 clinical volunteering by July and find more volunteering to do during your gap year, I don't think you're outright disqualified from consideration.

One way I've heard it described is that they look to build a well rounded class out of a bunch of pointy individuals - some people will have impressive research, some impressive service, etc.

What are the hours and responsibilities for the organizations you mention leadership roles in?

I will for sure continue volunteering through my gap year. Also, of note, a good chunk of my research involved patient contact (estimate 100+ hours).

Further, I have many additional volunteer activities and service, just chose not to add it here for the sake of brevity. However, now that it has been brought to my attention, I will elaborate.

I have spent 2.5 years in an organization (2 years of which were in a two different leadership roles), responsible for community outreach in a poor neighborhood of St. Louis. Our main task, was the creation and upkeep of a community garden in the neighborhood. This was in partnership with a couple of the neighborhood residents. In addition to a providing a free source of veggies, it was also used as a tool to teach about food deserts as well as encourage nutrition.

About 2 years in AED, a premedical honor society. For this, I have participated in multiple community service events..things like Vision for Life, which involved going to a local elementary school and testing vision/providing glasses for the kids.

Further, I am part of a service organization that goes to a local elementary school and does a lesson on various health science related topics such as nutrition, first aid, germs/washing hands etc. Leadership role in this organization as well, specifically instructing members on the curriculum and organizing lesson plans.

Last leadership position was in my fraternity as academic chair. Not really a service position per se but figured I would throw it in here as you asked about the other leadership positions.

 

[riley29]

You have the app of someone who really would be better off in a PhD program.

I am by no means saying I have extensive service or a ton of experience with underserved population, but it seems a bit harsh to say because I enjoy research, and am definitely a heavy research applicant, I am more suitable for a PhD. No? Admittedly , I realize it is hard to gaugue and applicant based on an SDN post, and not in the context of personal statement and letters of recommendation, which should I hope, convince the reader that while I like research, my main motivation lie in more interpersonal areas.

 

[efle]

I will for sure continue volunteering through my gap year. Also, of note, a good chunk of my research involved patient contact (estimate 100+ hours).

Further, I have many additional volunteer activities and service, just chose not to add it here for the sake of brevity. However, now that it has been brought to my attention, I will elaborate.

I have spent 2.5 years in an organization (2 years of which were in a two different leadership roles), responsible for community outreach in a poor neighborhood of St. Louis. Our main task, was the creation and upkeep of a community garden in the neighborhood. This was in partnership with a couple of the neighborhood residents. In addition to a providing a free source of veggies, it was also used as a tool to teach about food deserts as well as encourage nutrition.

About 2 years in AED, a premedical honor society. For this, I have participated in multiple community service events..things like Vision for Life, which involved going to a local elementary school and testing vision/providing glasses for the kids.

Further, I am part of a service organization that goes to a local elementary school and does a lesson on various health science related topics such as nutrition, first aid, germs/washing hands etc. Leadership role in this organization as well, specifically instructing members on the curriculum and organizing lesson plans.

Last leadership position was in my fraternity as academic chair. Not really a service position per se but figured I would throw it in here as you asked about the other leadership positions.

What kind of hour counts would you say you have for the above?

 

[riley29]

What kind of hour counts would you say you have for the above?

I would estimate about 175 hours across these additional activities. Plus the 100 clinical volunteering hours that puts me at a total of 275 service hours.

 

[Goro]

This is what your app says right now to me.

Look, stats get you to the door, but ECs get you through.

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen. You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and to show off your altruistic, humanistic side. Again, Medicine is a service profession.

Admission to medical school, and a career in Medicine, is a privilege, not a right. It is not a reward for being a good student or having high grades + GPA. You wanna be a doctor? Earn it.

I am by no means saying I have extensive service or a ton of experience with underserved population, but it seems a bit harsh to say because I enjoy research, and am definitely a heavy research applicant, I am more suitable for a PhD. No? Admittedly , I realize it is hard to gaugue and applicant based on an SDN post, and not in the context of personal statement and letters of recommendation, which should I hope, convince the reader that while I like research, my main motivation lie in more interpersonal areas.

 

[Goro]

That might be OK.

From your list, I recommend the following:

Albert Einstein School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Cooper Medical School of Rowan University (IS)
Duke University School of Medicine
Emory University School of Medicine
Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine
Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (IS)
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School (IS)
University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Washington University School of Medicine

ADD: Drexel, Temple, Jefferson, GWU, Gtown, Wake, VCU, EVMS, Dartmouth, Mayo, U VM

I eliminated the service loving schools and aimed more for those that like reinvention...and some of the MCAT ******.

I would estimate about 175 hours across these additional activities. Plus the 100 clinical volunteering hours that puts me at a total of 275 service hours.

 

[riley29]

Hmmm. Feel like I am getting a lot of conflicting advice regarding my list now.

 

[begoood95]

Hmmm. Feel like I am getting a lot of conflicting advice regarding my list now.

That's because you have a conflict, or, rather, discrepancy with your stats and EC's/service hours.

• Your GPA is approaching golden, but is silver.
• Your MCAT is very, very good.
• Your extras, i.e., "what gets you through," are not as competitive.

Because of that, it makes it difficult to suggest the highest of the high, and you'll most likely not get love from the "lower" tier medical schools. You're in limbo between a very competitive applicant and a "normal" -- still competitive -- applicant. I don't doubt you'll get interviews. I would take @Goro's advice. Sprinkle in some top-20's, and you'll be okay. Do not apply to only those 20; do not only apply to service-oriented schools.

As is the advice for anyone applying, apply broadly and you'll be fine. Apply realistically and you'll be even better.

 

[efle]

Two years in two labs - one clinical and one basic science. At least 4 publications

Your extras, i.e., "what gets you through," are not as competitive

I have no idea what y'all think is strong research ECs if not this guy's. Yes his volunteerism will be about avg/what's expected at competitive programs. But no I do not think he needs a list of midtiers with a "sprinkle" of top schools. He's a WashU 74 LizzyM with strong research and the other boxes well checked.

 

[begoood95]

I have no idea what y'all think is strong research ECs if not this guy's. Yes his volunteerism will be about avg/what's expected at competitive programs. But no I do not think he needs a list of midtiers with a "sprinkle" of top schools. He's a WashU 74 LizzyM with strong research and the other boxes well checked.

I mean you're right. I don't think they're not competitive! But research alone won't seal the deal, even at the research powerhouses. There are plenty of people with a lot of research coming from the same caliber of school, and on top of that, they've got those killer EC's.

That's why I say sprinkle. I can agree with you to an extent though, and would change the suggestion to a sprinkle and a half. It's never wise to apply solely to top-20's for anyone, in general.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using SDN mobile

 

[efle]

But research alone won't seal the deal, even at the research powerhouses. They are plenty of people with a lot of research coming from the same caliber of school, and on top of that, they've got those killer EC's.

Disagree very strongly. SDN will make you think this is common, but it really isn't. Applicants with 37+ scores, pubs and other boxes checked are not so plentiful that T20s are interviewing only the ones with hundreds of hours volunteering. Apps like yours and OPs (and mine) are rarer than you think.

You can see this in the MSAR if you have access. Look at some of the top school median MCATs and MCAT ranges, then look at the applicant score ranges, then look at the percentage of applicants that get interviewed.

 

[begoood95]

Disagree very strongly. SDN will make you think this is common, but it really isn't. Applicants with 37+ scores, pubs and other boxes checked are not so plentiful that T20s are interviewing only the ones with hundreds of hours volunteering. Apps like yours and OPs (and mine) are rarer than you think.

You can see this in the MSAR if you have access. Look at some of the top school median MCATs and MCAT ranges, then look at the applicant score ranges, then look at the percentage of applicants that get interviewed.

I agree that outstanding applications are rarer than SDN might lead one to believe, but I still think that -- within our sample size -- we get a good idea of what it takes to get into the Harvard/UCSF/Yale/Hopkins-types. Sure, our population is skewed, but we know that X person with Y statistics got into Z school, and that person W did not. We then look at their application, and try to reason as to why there was a difference in success; it's not perfect, and I don't think we're much better than chance at guessing who gets in where when it comes to the uber-competitive vs. borderline-competitive applicants, but I do think that in this case, it's reasonable to say that our confidence in their chances at a top-20 is shaky -- which is why it would be risky to advice them to apply to mostly top-20's.

Again, I do think that they have a good chance at getting some II's from a number of very competitive programs. I just don't think it's wise to limit yourself. Their success will also depend on the strength of their essays, of which we can't judge at this point. If I were in @riley29's position, here's how my list would look, disregarding cost:

• 10-13 top-20's
• 10 mid-tiers

If you get II's from the top-20's, then great! You don't have to worry about attending the mid-levels (I'd still attend one or two though). What this does is account for the off-chance that they get shut down from the more competitive schools. If that happens, he'll most likely get II's from the "lower" tiers, from which their chance of acceptance is higher, post-interview (in some cases).

 

[efle]

If I were in @riley29's position, here's how my list would look, disregarding cost:

• 10-13 top-20's
• 10 mid-tiers

See, this is very different than a "sprinkling" of the top schools! That's a majority top schools! Their list they most recently posted by my estimation is 15 of the t20 + 13 outside (including multiple instate schools). A big list, but already balanced about as suggested

 

[begoood95]

See, this is very different than a "sprinkling" of the top schools! That's a majority top schools! Their list they most recently posted by my estimation is 15 of the t20 + 13 outside (including multiple instate schools). A big list, but already balanced about as suggested

...Lol you're right, it is. You'll do fine OP.

 

[riley29]

I apologize if my post caused an anger or what not. I think we have come to a consensus, and I have arrived at a reasonable list. Thank you all for your detailed discussion, advice, and information. It is genuinely appreciated.

 

[hubbsbubbs]

I think it'd be a good idea to have some low to mid tier schools in the mix. As OP mentioned, we aren't seeing all of his application, or how he comes across in his PS or what's in his LORs. It's not all about stats, and without your application entirely laid out, it's perhaps best to approach with some caution.

 

[riley29]

I think it'd be a good idea to have some low to mid tier schools in the mix. As OP mentioned, we aren't seeing all of his application, or how he comes across in his PS or what's in his LORs. It's not all about stats, and without your application entirely laid out, it's perhaps best to approach with some caution.

Agreed completely. I think that parts of my application not included here (i.e. PS, LoR, full activities list) should be quite solid. Having said that, I do have a couple low-mids on the list: Rutgers NJ, Rutgers RWJ, and Rowan Cooper, all of which I am in state-for, above the median GPA, and above the 90th percentile for accepted MCAT. In a similar situation for SUNY Downstate, Keck, Miami, Hofstra, Einstein and URoch.