Schools first time pass rate for comlex ?

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My school does the 'integrated curriculum' also. The reason more schools don't do systems one at a time is purely dean preference as far as I can tell. Certain curriculum's have indeed performed better, and produce better results, but you can guarantee if the Dean doesn't like it they will make up some reason to do it the way he or she wants instead.

Nova got a new dean, and now they have a new curriculum, which failed lots of people. But of course, its the students fault. Their average MCAT and GPA must have sucked a couple years ago (being factitious, it didn't).

But I will say this, I believe no matter what the curriculum change is, the first year will probably do worse due to things not being lined up. Its why you want to avoid a school in the middle of one. I guarantee, that very few of those 70+ people at NOVA who failed physio saw that coming.

What is this curriculum change you keep alluding to? Nova’s curriculum going by the website hasn’t changed in years. Still the traditional first year, and organ systems second. Frankly I am accepted here and this was my first choice. But the stuff I am hearing on sdn is freaking me out. That failure rate is totally abnormal for any US med school.
 
What is this curriculum change you keep alluding to? Nova’s curriculum going by the website hasn’t changed in years. Still the traditional first year, and organ systems second. Frankly I am accepted here and this was my first choice. But the stuff I am hearing on sdn is freaking me out. That failure rate is totally abnormal for any US med school.
I am sure their actual completion rate is still around 90%, people are just getting delayed due to remediation and repeat years, and prob 10% actually don't complete. This is a fairly normal number in my experience with DO schools. You would have to ask actual Nova students about the curriculum, as 4 of them have already posted.

If you like Nova, go there, they have a good reputation, and lots of Alumni to hook you up. But I will give you a fair warning: The hardest part of DO is definitely NOT getting in, its finishing with your sanity intact and in a match you can be happy with. You still can be kicked out, and that applies anywhere. Just hustle and grind and you will make it.
 
I am sure their actual completion rate is still around 90%, people are just getting delayed due to remediation and repeat years, and prob 10% actually don't complete. This is a fairly normal number in my experience with DO schools. You would have to ask actual Nova students about the curriculum, as 4 of them have already posted.

If you like Nova, go there, they have a good reputation, and lots of Alumni to hook you up. But I will give you a fair warning: The hardest part of DO is definitely NOT getting in, its finishing with your sanity intact and in a match you can be happy with. You still can be kicked out, and that applies anywhere. Just hustle and grind and you will make it.

Wow, you’re making DO school sounds similar to the Caribbean.. which it certainly isn’t. Looking at 4 year graduation rates for DO schools they’re similar to US allo schools. With acceptance rate for most DO schools below 5% and graduation rates north of 90% the hard part it would seem is getting in. Cause once in you will essentially be a doctor. I’m just a student who will be matriculating this year. But seems like you’re fear mongering if one just steps back and looks at the #’s
 
Wow, you’re making DO school sounds similar to the Caribbean.. which it certainly isn’t. Looking at 4 year graduation rates for DO schools they’re similar to US allo schools. With acceptance rate for most DO schools below 5% and graduation rates north of 90% the hard part it would seem is getting in. Cause once in you will essentially be a doctor. I’m just a student who will be matriculating this year. But seems like you’re fear mongering if one just steps back and looks at the #’s

How did you get this from what he said? Everything he said is 100% true. It doesn’t matter where you go or what the graduation rate is, you can always be in the 5%.

“The hardest part of DO is definitely NOT getting in, its finishing with your sanity intact and in a match you can be happy with. You still can be kicked out, and that applies anywhere. Just hustle and grind and you will make it.”

This is what he said, and it applies to any medical school. If you think the hardest part of becoming a doctor is simply getting into medical school then you are completely wrong. You’ve just finished the stretching before the 100 mike race
 
How did you get this from what he said? Everything he said is 100% true. It doesn’t matter where you go or what the graduation rate is, you can always be in the 5%.

“The hardest part of DO is definitely NOT getting in, its finishing with your sanity intact and in a match you can be happy with. You still can be kicked out, and that applies anywhere. Just hustle and grind and you will make it.”

This is what he said, and it applies to any medical school. If you think the hardest part of becoming a doctor is simply getting into medical school then you are completely wrong. You’ve just finished the stretching before the 100 mike race
I would suggest he is not very familiar with the Caribbean if he thinks a 90%+ completion rate is comparable to theirs. I appreciate the backup also. Something tells me McDreamy will be singing a new tune in a year or so. Its helpful to know the difference between a completion rate and how many students fail a single class. DO schools may have a large part of their classes fail certain classes and remediate, but that is far different than the over half of Caribbean students who get failed out completely (i.e. expelled).
 
That style curriculum is definitely more intense than that of COMP which does one system per block in second year. I don't understand how some schools are able to cover all the systems one at a time while NOVA does 3-4 at a time unless they are covering way more information...

On a side note why did you choose NOVA over KCU?

Just want to clarify that our curriculum has not changed recently, at least not the last three years to my knowledge. One student did raise his concern about recent years' low boards pass rate at a meeting, our administration told us that some class is simply smarter than other classes. We really don't know if this is the reason but we do know that our exam average has been consistently 10% higher across all disciplines compared to last year's class. But come on something has to be wrong to have such a low board pass rate. The school needs to evaluate the curriculum and look into system based curriculum because it does produce a much better boards result(aka KCU, TCOM, and RVUCOM). The crazy integrated clinical system really sucks when a huge chunk of the lectures are things you learn on rotations and step 2.

I chose Nova because of 1. clinical education 2. resources 3. location.

Nova has AMAZING rotation sites. None of the schools I interviewed at had anything close. Nova is affiliated with so many great hospitals that they have to cap the limit and tell some hospitals no when they requested more students. For this year, 78 students will get to rotate at two level 1 Trauma centers. There are another three hospitals that are level 2 Trauma and the only hospital in South Beach is our site. Nearly the rest of the sites have residency programs attached to the hospital. For the site I'm going to be rotating at(one of the level 1 Trauma centers), you get to scrub in on a lot of surgeries and first assist. For the second month, students choose a surgery of the desired field. During these two months, students also manage the ICU patients with the docs. Not to mention other awesome specialties like OB and IM where you see a lot of crazy pathology (due to high HIV incidence), C-sections. The experience for the site i'm with is ONE-ON-ONE with an attending at the hospital. You can even find other doctors if you feel like you want to learn from them, they are very willing to work with you. I can go on and on about our clinical rotations but seriously the sites Nova has been so good that we had a hard time even picking and ranking a top 3. On a side note, I say 90%+ of students got their top three choices for rotation sites, but some unlucky ones did not. My friend got a level 2 Trauma site and is very disappointed that it wasn't a level 1 lol. Clinical education is very important to me. Even though you will learn the majority in your residency, but this is where you get to see different specialties and decide what you like. They train you extremely well clinically at Nova. And you will definitely impress people when you do your audition 4th year.

2. Resources. Nova has an undergrad attached to it and has a lot of resources for research, community service, and master programs. Finding a research here is so easy. I am writing and publishing a paper with a faculty right now, the opportunity came to me and I didn't even ask for it. I had to turn the other two down because of board prep. One of my good friends has 4 paper/projects, one has 3, and another has 3. A lot of students are not doing any first two years because they are focusing on the boards. But it's a culture to participate in at least a research project or case presentation in your M3 year. You feel like an odd one when you don't have something lined up.

Nova also has some master programs that you can do while completing your DO degree. MPH, MBA, Disaster Medicine..etc. The MPH has an 80% discount and students are paying <$3500 for it. But I heard they raised the MPH this year by maybe $500? I will have to check on it with my friends. Most of my DO/MPH friends are all doing amazing research with different faculty.

If you like basic science research, Nova just built a collaborative research right next to COM(NSU Center for Collaborative Research). They just tore down a bunch of buildings and are building a teaching hospital on campus even though the two affiliated level 1 Trauma centers are within 25 minutes range.

If you haven't heard, Nova has recently changed their name to Dr. Kiran C Patel College of Osteopathic Medicine. When they announced this, we were like WHAT WHY?? THIS IS NOT THE NAME WE SIGNED UP FOR??? But then we realized Dr. Patel donated 50 Mil to the school and another 25Mil to change the allopathic school to Dr. Kiran C Patel College of Allopathic Medicine. So yeah you can change our name and make fun of us, but you can't deny that this will provide more resources. We just got an email that the school raised a total of 250mil just the past few years for their "2020 vision" plan. The goal is to attract renowned researchers and collaborators to Nova to provide more resources and opportunities for researchers and students.

Because of all the money, they are already giving us the option to do our mandatory rural rotation in India. Housing, meals, transportation, and airfare are all paid by the school. I don't even know what good stuff will come in the future.

3. Location.
I really wanted to work with HIV patients due to some personal interest. Broward/Miami Dade County has one of the highest HIV/AIDS rates in the county. And HIV = more crazy pathology.

KCU has a much better curriculum to prepare the students for the boards. They make sure you make it at the end. And one of the biggest downsides at Nova is the required mandatory rural rotation. If you are unlucky, you can get your rural rotation during the critical period for audition rotation. I want to stress this point because audition rotation is very important and can play a key factor when applying for residency. Do not underestimate this.

Nova does have more resources, better clinical education, and is at a location where I wanted to learn medicine. I think board score is really up to the individual effort. The Psammoma bodies of Meningoma at KCU and the Psammoma bodies of Meningoma at Nova are the same Meningoma. They don't change name or shape because you go to NSU. Don't come to Nova if you have a history of academic problems though. Nova will fail you, give you a remediation option, but doesn't really help you to succeed in future classes and fail you again if you don't figure it out. Most people who struggled probably dropped out, not because Nova dismissed them. The remediate policy is beyond generous.

I know plenty of M3s who got 250+ on the USMLE but also know plenty who ended up not taking it because they didn't have enough time to prepare and study(we have 2 months dedicated). I use pathoma, sketchy, first aid, and u world religiously like other DO students, so I went with Nova with my finger crossing that I get a good timing for my mandatory audition. You can't really go wrong with either school. Hope this helps.
 
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Wow, you’re making DO school sounds similar to the Caribbean.. which it certainly isn’t. Looking at 4 year graduation rates for DO schools they’re similar to US allo schools. With acceptance rate for most DO schools below 5% and graduation rates north of 90% the hard part it would seem is getting in. Cause once in you will essentially be a doctor. I’m just a student who will be matriculating this year. But seems like you’re fear mongering if one just steps back and looks at the #’s

Average absolute attrition for DO schools is ~8%. Average absolute attrition for MD schools is something like 4-6%. Attrition for Carib schools is anywhere from 20%-60% depending on the school.

You are correct that getting in is much harder than completing once you're in, but that doesn't mean everyone stays in. I would guess half of that attrition are people that changed their mind about what they wanted/had personal events that they had to leave school for and the other half failed out, just based on what I observed in my class. There's a subset of 5-10% that remediate, take LOAs, or take research years as well and finish in 5 or 6yrs (so 4-yr grad rates are closer to 83-85% for DO schools, which is comparable to that for MD schools as well).
 
Kiran C. Patel isn't even a doctor!!! His ability to practice medicine was revoked because he killed two patients in 2015 with extreme negligence on his part.

This is a very serious claim. Can you back it up with a source?
 
Just met with the Dean at Nova... Her response is that our average scores have gone up over 100pts and the low pass rate currently up is without ~50 students having taken COMLEX yet, the school is under going a COCA review and had to publish the current stat and they’ll be updated as soon as the new numbers are in. She made some comments about the previous Dean not requiring COMSAE and how she’s implemented a change where 450 is required on at least 1 of 3 attempts in order to sit for COMLEX. We’re implementing Firecracker into our curriculum beginning next year, it’ll be required and our actual lectures will be rolled into the material there. Her hopes is this will help with boards from the beginning.

That’s my report...
 
Just met with the Dean at Nova... Her response is that our average scores have gone up over 100pts and the low pass rate currently up is without ~50 students having taken COMLEX yet, the school is under going a COCA review and had to publish the current stat and they’ll be updated as soon as the new numbers are in. She made some comments about the previous Dean not requiring COMSAE and how she’s implemented a change where 450 is required on at least 1 of 3 attempts in order to sit for COMLEX. We’re implementing Firecracker into our curriculum beginning next year, it’ll be required and our actual lectures will be rolled into the material there. Her hopes is this will help with boards from the beginning.

That’s my report...
The 100 point increase is referring to Comlex right? Is she aware that the scores are artificially high now? I'm sure you have seen the thread.
 
Just want to clarify that our curriculum has not changed recently, at least not the last three years to my knowledge. One student did raise his concern about recent years' low boards pass rate at a meeting, our administration told us that some class is simply smarter than other classes. We really don't know if this is the reason but we do know that our exam average has been consistently 10% higher across all disciplines compared to last year's class. But come on something has to be wrong to have such a low board pass rate. The school needs to evaluate the curriculum and look into system based curriculum because it does produce a much better boards result(aka KCU, TCOM, and RVUCOM). The crazy integrated clinical system really sucks when a huge chunk of the lectures are things you learn on rotations and step 2.
If one believes the administration (and I don't), then for four consecutive years, Nova has enrolled weaker and weaker students.

Agree 100% with the comment in red. Good luck!
 
for reference, touroCA had 100% pass rate this past year.
 
I think it’s because the dean gives no ****s about how many people can fail a class. A huge chunk of the M2 class failed or barely passed their intergrated exam so instead of prepping for boards, they now have to waste time studying for the final.
 
A huge chunk of the M2 class failed or barely passed their intergrated exam so instead of prepping for boards, they now have to waste time studying for the final.
Yep. Heard 70 people failed renal. Crazy.
 
I think it’s because the dean gives no ****s about how many people can fail a class. A huge chunk of the M2 class failed or barely passed their intergrated exam so instead of prepping for boards, they now have to waste time studying for the final.

This is insane! Every now and then at my school we do have a hard exam, but a massive fail on an exam says that the faculty aren't teaching the subject material well, or the exam questions are deeply flawed. You know it's a bad exam when the top students do well below their normal averages.

Have there been new faculty hires at Nova? My gut is screaming that someone doesn't know what they're doing.
 
This is insane! Every now and then at my school we do have a hard exam, but a massive fail on an exam says that the faculty aren't teaching the subject material well, or the exam questions are deeply flawed. You know it's a bad exam when the top students do well below their normal averages.

Have there been new faculty hires at Nova? My gut is screaming that someone doesn't know what they're doing.
Apparently the integrated was filled with procedures and questions that are relevant for step 2. We’re really starting to question our dean’s decisions and our class has been vocal about this. Next year we’re switching to a hydrid of PBL and traditional lecture which theoretically could be a good thing but nova’s track record has been bad lately.
 
Apparently the integrated was filled with procedures and questions that are relevant for step 2. We’re really starting to question our dean’s decisions and our class has been vocal about this. Next year we’re switching to a hydrid of PBL and traditional lecture which theoretically could be a good thing but nova’s track record has been bad lately.

The bolded is literally the bane of my existence and it seems schools across the country are doing this. Like I don’t get why we have to know what exact dosages of Lisinopril to give certain patients when I’m still trying to study the MOA and when to use the drug and when not to. The only board exam I ever hear mentioned is Step 2 it seems. Like does everyone ignore the fact that the basic medical sciences exam comes first? Ironically the only time I’ve heard “you will need to know this for level 1” is from our OMM professor.

Keep 3rd and 4th year knowledge in 3rd and 4th year.

/rant
 
The bolded is literally the bane of my existence and it seems schools across the country are doing this. Like I don’t get why we have to know what exact dosages of Lisinopril to give certain patients when I’m still trying to study the MOA and when to use the drug and when not to. The only board exam I ever hear mentioned is Step 2 it seems. Like does everyone ignore the fact that the basic medical sciences exam comes first? Ironically the only time I’ve heard “you will need to know this for level 1” is from our OMM professor.

Keep 3rd and 4th year knowledge in 3rd and 4th year.

/rant

I noticed this problem during second year as well. At times clinicians who teach courses will say "this is extremely important for boards" but I think their memory of which level of boards escapes them.
 
The bolded is literally the bane of my existence and it seems schools across the country are doing this. Like I don’t get why we have to know what exact dosages of Lisinopril to give certain patients when I’m still trying to study the MOA and when to use the drug and when not to. The only board exam I ever hear mentioned is Step 2 it seems. Like does everyone ignore the fact that the basic medical sciences exam comes first? Ironically the only time I’ve heard “you will need to know this for level 1” is from our OMM professor.

Keep 3rd and 4th year knowledge in 3rd and 4th year.

/rant
Faculty does this because people generally like to learn about the more applicable parts of medicine and a lot of students shower these people with praise for it. People want to be liked so they do things that make students like them even if we know that this stuff should wait until later.
 
The bolded is literally the bane of my existence and it seems schools across the country are doing this. Like I don’t get why we have to know what exact dosages of Lisinopril to give certain patients when I’m still trying to study the MOA and when to use the drug and when not to. The only board exam I ever hear mentioned is Step 2 it seems. Like does everyone ignore the fact that the basic medical sciences exam comes first? Ironically the only time I’ve heard “you will need to know this for level 1” is from our OMM professor.

Keep 3rd and 4th year knowledge in 3rd and 4th year.

/rant
Oh yes, our OMM professors are AMAZING at keeping things board relevant. I can't tell you how many times our professor (who writes questions for COMLEX) goes "THIS IS ON COMLEX, IN THIS EXACT FORMAT"... Wouldn't it be great to hear that in our other classes at Nova.
 
Oh yes, our OMM professors are AMAZING at keeping things board relevant. I can't tell you how many times our professor (who writes questions for COMLEX) goes "THIS IS ON COMLEX, IN THIS EXACT FORMAT"... Wouldn't it be great to hear that in our other classes at Nova.

But...Once you learn omm it appears in the same level, format and difficulty for level 2 (and I hear) level 3, but can't confirm yet for level 3.
 
Heard this was false. If true though that is really bad
Not false. I speak frequently about Nova with a current student who's a family member of my SO, so he's definitely telling the truth.
 
Not false. I speak frequently about Nova with a current student who's a family member of my SO, so he's definitely telling the truth.
Even current students don't know the actual numbers. I'm a current student involved with student government, and I couldn't tell you exactly how many people failed. It's students who DID fail blowing things out of proportion, just rumors.
 
Even current students don't know the actual numbers. I'm a current student involved with student government, and I couldn't tell you exactly how many people failed. It's students who DID fail blowing things out of proportion, just rumors.
Perhaps, but regardless of the actual number the frequency of people failing courses at Nova is really concerning. It seems like a common thing that people aren't even shocked anymore when x amount of people fail each class and end up repeating years.
 
Perhaps, but regardless of the actual number the frequency of people failing courses at Nova is really concerning. It seems like a common thing that people aren't even shocked anymore when x amount of people fail each class and end up repeating years.
The number of students who repeat years, I do know, is very very low (like less than 5 out 250 students). The number of students who fail and remediate something, however, is quite high IMO. I have friends who nearly cracked 800 on their COMLEX here AND remediated classes. To me that just doesn't add up, but I don't presume to know the remediation rates for individual classes at other medical schools. 1st time pass rates at the moment are our biggest concern, because we want to know this isn't a trend and is being taken seriously. I think remediation rates could very well be tied to this, I think we may have high remediation and VERY low attrition, but I don't know those numbers for sure.
 
The number of students who repeat years, I do know, is very very low (like less than 5 out 250 students). The number of students who fail and remediate something, however, is quite high IMO. I have friends who nearly cracked 800 on their COMLEX here AND remediated classes. To me that just doesn't add up, but I don't presume to know the remediation rates for individual classes at other medical schools. 1st time pass rates at the moment are our biggest concern, because we want to know this isn't a trend and is being taken seriously. I think remediation rates could very well be tied to this, I think we may have high remediation and VERY low attrition, but I don't know those numbers for sure.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree overall that Nova is still a "better" DO school and definitely not in any way a bad school. I agree that the rate of remediation is concerning and should be something the higher ups take a good look at. Perhaps you are right and the number of people who failed x class or are repeating years is being over-exaggerated to me by the people I know. I agree with you that it doesn't add up for people to be doing well on boards but failing classes-- this shows that Nova's courses aren't really geared towards being board specific.

On another topic...is it true that you all are being told that it's pointless for you to take the USMLE because all programs will now be accepting COMLEX? I heard from several people that they were told this and found it pretty concerning.
 
On another topic...is it true that you all are being told that it's pointless for you to take the USMLE because all programs will now be accepting COMLEX? I heard from several people that they were told this and found it pretty concerning.

Nah don’t be concerned, pretty much every DO school will try and tell their students this. Ignore it and plan from day 1 to take USMLE
 
Heard this was false. If true though that is really bad
Sure. Agree that people can exaggerate the # and victimize themselves. I won't speak for class of 2019 but I'll speak for class of 2020. We have access to the grade list and 70 M2s failed the renal integrated midterm exam this year. To be fair, no one was studying for classes. Everyone is doing board studying and that integrated exam was one of the most difficult exam we had at nova.

I like Nova but I feel obligated to provide the most accurate information. The number of people repeating a year being <5 is an underestimation, at least for our class. I personally know 9 M2s repeating a year with the M1s right now. The number is probably a little higher because these are only the people I know. A few of them just didn't care enough to repeat a year though.

The administration doesn't care if you take USMLE or not. The school neither encourages nor discourages you. They just don't care. Everyone I know is planning on taking it because M3s tell us to take it.

New info from our dean- our class of 2019 COMLEX pass rate increased to 92% and average increased 100+ points this past year. Our new dean also had mandated to only interview applicants with a min of 3.5GPA and 500 MCAT starting with our class. (Class of 2020 profile: AVG MCAT 508/GPA 3.75) I guess that explained why our exam average has been sky high? Talking about one or even two letter grades up. (not this past integrated exam though lol) She hasn't bent that rule even with the recommendation from the school's president. M2s also have to take and pass COMSAE with a 450 from 1/3 tries to be eligible to take the COMLEX.
 
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NSU:
There were a handful of 5 year graduates, one person who spent 4 years on their preclinical years before failing out, and one person who took 6 years to graduate in the time I was there. The remediation policy was generous back then. I've said what I've said about the curriculum (a burning trash pile that's constantly changing), but perhaps in lieu of fixing that, maybe the best solution really is to accept the high achievers right off the bat so there aren't a bunch of people spending $70,000 to $150,000 extra to finish their education. I finished in four years, am pulling in $30,000+/month pre-tax now and still have what seems like an insurmountable student loan debt-$500,000-from a time when the tuition was about $10,000 less a year than it currently is. The idea of paying off my loans was more abstract during medical school and residency but yes, I know I can definitely pay off the debt...now.

I really don't have an opinion on choosing the right medical school anymore. Do you want to be a doctor or not? Is NSU the best option or not? I do like my chosen field but it is sometimes shocking to me that I made it through their curriculum intact, and I do tell myself that my debt is $70k-150k less than what the graduates who had to remediate need to pay. Do not take on this amount of debt lightly because it will flat out ruin your life if you fail. I know of someone who is in this situation with 400k in debt and at best can find 60-70k/year jobs. You really do need to examine yourself, particularly your tolerance for pain, your innate ability to do well on tests (read: an undergrad/grad school record, ideally in the biological sciences, filled with excellent grades), your natural intelligence, stamina, and ability to connect well with people. Do you have these traits? A good chance you'll succeed if you decide to jump in. Don't have these traits? Don't do it, you're better off doing something else.
 
Regarding the matter of DO schools, I do recall specifically weighing the options of a SMP, DO school, or the Caribbean and remember choosing the DO school route because of its separate residencies. Say what you will about their quality, which varied from dual accredited to using residents as cheap labor, but the pool of competition was much much lower and it was always an option for people who amongst other reasons couldn't make it in the ACGME match, or wanted to shoot for a specialty like ortho or derm. I know an average student in my class who became a dermatologist this way. Now with the merger, it will be a lot different, DO's are in the same pool as everyone else.

/End unsolicited thoughts
 
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