Schools With Biggest Grade Deflation?

[476515678234896]

Which undergrad schools are the hardest to do well?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[476515678234896]

 

[KPCOFGS]

I dunno, but I'm pretty sure mine has some of the biggest INflation!

 

[476515678234896]

I dunno, but I'm pretty sure mine has some of the biggest INflation!

lemme guess CC or prestigious private school?

 

[UNMorBUST]

California CC.

 

[KPCOFGS]

lemme guess CC or prestigious private school?

you got me. but seriously it is pretty unfair... I just want it to last long enough for me to graduate, then they can fix it.

 

[tjquinn]

That is interesting, the CC I went to had severe grade DEflation. There was no curving, so you were held to a standard established in the syllabus. I still remember only 4 kids (out of 30) passing Calculus III due to the strict regulations on grades.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

lemme guess CC or prestigious private school?

CC's are majorly deflated. In a class of 40, your going to get maybe 2-4 A's and 5-7 B's and a lot of C's and then some D's, I don't think i've seen a F, because people probably drop with those. Needless to say I still find it strange that people tend to believe CC's are easier or lesser. If anything they're pretty difficult and the education's pretty good too ( I helped out guys at the university with their chem and bio stuff).

But this is all anecdotal evidence, and I go to probably the best CC in the country or 2nd best.

 

[NickNaylor]

 

[riverjib]

That is interesting, the CC I went to had severe grade DEflation. There was no curving, so you were held to a standard established in the syllabus. I still remember only 4 kids (out of 30) passing Calculus III due to the strict regulations on grades.

I went to a CC as a non-trad, and I agree. Our CC had a number of kids transfer to Cornell and Columbia, so our stats for Calc III weren't quite so horrendous. But there was no curve, a 96 was an A, a 95 an A-, etc. It was pretty harsh.

I finished my degree at Stony Brook. Comparably, it was easier to end up in the A- or A range in a class of 200+ that was curved. I ended up with A's with an average as low as 85 in a few 300 level classes. Still, other universities have NO minus grades, so in many cases an A- at Stony Brook may have been an A elsewhere.

That's why the MCAT exists...the idea is to level the playing field.

 

[476515678234896]

CC's are majorly deflated. In a class of 40, your going to get maybe 2-4 A's and 5-7 B's and a lot of C's and then some D's, I don't think i've seen a F, because people probably drop with those. Needless to say I still find it strange that people tend to believe CC's are easier or lesser. If anything they're pretty difficult and the education's pretty good too ( I helped out guys at the university with their chem and bio stuff).

But this is all anecdotal evidence, and I go to probably the best CC in the country or 2nd best.

i dunno....although i transferred already i went to a cc, 80 units of 4.0 out of 85. It was pretty damned easy and there was a lot of grade inflation because the kids were so stupid and the curve (if there even was one) was very generous.

Maybe it varies from cc to cc.

 

[tjquinn]

Mheh, I think it really depends on the CC. The kids at my CC were EXTREMELY driven because they knew they had made several mistakes in their life that placed them at the CC level. In fact, I found competition at my CC far worse than at the University of Washington. Moreover, as someone above noted, the curves at the University level are ridiculous. I achieved 4.0s in certain classes with a 80% in a class. I think it is silly (although I shouldn't complain).

 

[476515678234896]

i guess I've had a completely different experience, after transferring to a top 20 a lot of my peers don't seem any more driven than cc'ers...there are more driven people at uni (just surprised at how many weren't).

 

[Penner]

Caltech, Princeton.

 

[riverjib]

Caltech, Princeton.

I don't know about Caltech, but Princeton does not accept transfer students. I'm sure that adds to the competition there.

 

[476515678234896]

i've heard horror stories about Princeton's grade deflation

 

[lorenzomicron]

I go to a small liberal arts college, and the standard is heavy. There is no curve. An A is 100, 99, 98, 97, 96. 95-91 is A-, and so on and so forth. I guess that's pretty much deflation. There's classes like Electrodynamics (upper level Physics) where no one gets an A- even. tough love.

 

[addo]

But this is all anecdotal evidence, and I go to probably the best CC in the country or 2nd best.

That is probably why. People at my school would always tell me to take hard classes at CC because they were so much easier there. Some CCs give CC a bad rep, and the good ones have to take the hit for it.

 

[Narmerguy]

I go to a small liberal arts college, and the standard is heavy. There is no curve. An A is 100, 99, 98, 97, 96. 95-91 is A-, and so on and so forth. I guess that's pretty much deflation. There's classes like Electrodynamics (upper level Physics) where no one gets an A- even. tough love.

I never appreciated schools that do this. It calls into the question usefulness of their grades. If I saw a given grade from a student at that school, how do I know how to treat it? Was this a BS class that was super hard and didn't give A's? Was it a cake class? This gives the advantage to schools that grade much more balanced because their A's will always stand up...it's the highest grade they could have achieved. However, with a B, how can one ever know if the student could have done more?

 

[KPCOFGS]

I never appreciated schools that do this. It calls into the question usefulness of their grades. If I saw a given grade from a student at that school, how do I know how to treat it? Was this a BS class that was super hard and didn't give A's? Was it a cake class? This gives the advantage to schools that grade much more balanced because their A's will always stand up...it's the highest grade they could have achieved. However, with a B, how can one ever know if the student could have done more?

+1

 

[anders11]

Swarthmore.

They do legit curves, which has always struck me as a fairly useless thing at a college with selective admission, because you're only comparing highly-motivated people to other highly-motivated people.

If everyone in a Swarthmore class gets between 80 and 100% overall, then a 90% is a C.

That ain't right.

 

[Penner]

Swarthmore.

They do legit curves, which has always struck me as a fairly useless thing at a college with selective admission, because you're only comparing highly-motivated people to other highly-motivated people.

If everyone in a Swarthmore class gets between 80 and 100% overall, then a 90% is a C.

That ain't right.

Many schools do curves. And seeing as how Swarthmore's average GPA is a 3.53 (http://gradeinflation.com/swarthmore.html), which is higher than Yale's, I highly doubt the mean is a C. More like, if everyone gets between 80% and 100%, then a 90% is a B+ or A-.

 

[loveoforganic]

Strictly from heresay, MIT and Berkeley

 

[476515678234896]

Strictly from heresay, MIT and Berkeley

I go to Cal, it's not that bad..but MIT, really? I heard they don't give out letter grades their first term and make everything pass/fail alongside accommodating students really well.

 

[Penner]

Alright, here's a list of the top 25 schools ranked by US News in the order of lowest average GPA to highest average GPA (according to gradeinflation.com's latest figure):

(I also included the 75th percentile of SAT score from collegeboard so we can have some sort of comparison between the relative academic caliber of the student bodies... The average GPA's aren't listed anywhere, so I just went with the 75th percentile scores.)

School, average GPA, USNews rank, 75th percentile SAT score

1. UVA , 3.21, 24, 2150
2. UCLA, 3.22, 24, 2110
3. Johns Hopkins, 3.24, 14, 2230
4. Berkeley, 3.27, 21, 2190
5. Princeton, 3.28, 1, 2360
6. Rice, 3.3 (9 years ago, likely to be closer to 3.4 now), 17, 2270
7. Vanderbilt, 3.32, 17, 2270
8. UChic, 3.35, 8, 2320
9. Cornell, 3.36, 15, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
10. Emory, 3.38, 17, 2220
11. Northwestern, 3.41, 12, 2280
12. WUSTL, 3.41, 12, 2300 (SAT writing score not listed, so I just did 1.5x(CR+Math))
13. Dartmouth, 3.42, 11, 2330
14. Columbia, 3.42, 8, 2320
15. Georgetown, 3.42, 23, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
16. UPenn, 3.44, 4, 2290
17. Duke, 3.44, 10, 2290
18. Harvard, 3.45, 1, 2350
19. Yale, 3.51, 3, 2370
20. Stanford, 3.55, 4, 2300
21. Brown, 3.61, 16, 2310

Schools excluded (data not available or over 10 years old): Caltech , MIT, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon.

Unsurprisingly, the schools with the most grade inflation also had the highest SAT scores. Princeton has the 5th lowest average GPA of the top 25, and the second highest SAT score of the top 25 (second to Yale, which has an average GPA of 3.51). Also, Georgetown has an average GPA almost the same as Harvard's, but 100 points lower in SAT score - how come no one thinks of Georgetown when grade inflation is mentioned?

Oh, and Brown's grades are jokes.

 

[CoolWhipp]

I go to Cal, it's not that bad..but MIT, really? I heard they don't give out letter grades their first term and make everything pass/fail alongside accommodating students really well.

Do you speak for every single major at Cal?

 

[476515678234896]

Do you speak for every single major at Cal?

obviously not...do you?

Alright, here's a list of the top 25 schools ranked by US News in the order of lowest average GPA to highest average GPA (according to gradeinflation.com's latest figure):

(I also included the 75th percentile of SAT score from collegeboard so we can have some sort of comparison between the relative academic caliber of the student bodies... The average GPA's aren't listed anywhere, so I just went with the 75th percentile scores.)

School, average GPA, USNews rank, 75th percentile SAT score

1. UVA , 3.21, 24, 2150
2. UCLA, 3.22, 24, 2110
3. Johns Hopkins, 3.24, 14, 2230
4. Berkeley, 3.27, 21, 2190
5. Princeton, 3.28, 1, 2360
6. Rice, 3.3 (9 years ago, likely to be closer to 3.4 now), 17, 2270
7. Vanderbilt, 3.32, 17, 2270
8. UChic, 3.35, 8, 2320
9. Cornell, 3.36, 15, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
10. Emory, 3.38, 17, 2220
11. Northwestern, 3.41, 12, 2280
12. WUSTL, 3.41, 12, 2300 (SAT writing score not listed, so I just did 1.5x(CR+Math))
13. Dartmouth, 3.42, 11, 2330
14. Columbia, 3.42, 8, 2320
15. Georgetown, 3.42, 23, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
16. UPenn, 3.44, 4, 2290
17. Duke, 3.44, 10, 2290
18. Harvard, 3.45, 1, 2350
19. Yale, 3.51, 3, 2370
20. Stanford, 3.55, 4, 2300
21. Brown, 3.61, 16, 2310

Schools excluded (data not available or over 10 years old): Caltech , MIT, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon.

Unsurprisingly, the schools with the most grade inflation also had the highest SAT scores. Princeton has the 5th lowest average GPA of the top 25, and the second highest SAT score of the top 25 (second to Yale, which has an average GPA of 3.51). Also, Georgetown has an average GPA almost the same as Harvard's, but 100 points lower in SAT score - how come no one thinks of Georgetown when grade inflation is mentioned?

Oh, and Brown's grades are jokes.

interesting stuff especially w/ the SAT, but like coolwhip implied...the % of students in different majors would play a role in the variation.

 

[DoctwoB]

Alright, here's a list of the top 25 schools ranked by US News in the order of lowest average GPA to highest average GPA (according to gradeinflation.com's latest figure):

(I also included the 75th percentile of SAT score from collegeboard so we can have some sort of comparison between the relative academic caliber of the student bodies... The average GPA's aren't listed anywhere, so I just went with the 75th percentile scores.)

School, average GPA, USNews rank, 75th percentile SAT score

1. UVA , 3.21, 24, 2150
2. UCLA, 3.22, 24, 2110
3. Johns Hopkins, 3.24, 14, 2230
4. Berkeley, 3.27, 21, 2190
5. Princeton, 3.28, 1, 2360
6. Rice, 3.3 (9 years ago, likely to be closer to 3.4 now), 17, 2270
7. Vanderbilt, 3.32, 17, 2270
8. UChic, 3.35, 8, 2320
9. Cornell, 3.36, 15, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
10. Emory, 3.38, 17, 2220
11. Northwestern, 3.41, 12, 2280
12. WUSTL, 3.41, 12, 2300 (SAT writing score not listed, so I just did 1.5x(CR+Math))
13. Dartmouth, 3.42, 11, 2330
14. Columbia, 3.42, 8, 2320
15. Georgetown, 3.42, 23, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
16. UPenn, 3.44, 4, 2290
17. Duke, 3.44, 10, 2290
18. Harvard, 3.45, 1, 2350
19. Yale, 3.51, 3, 2370
20. Stanford, 3.55, 4, 2300
21. Brown, 3.61, 16, 2310

Schools excluded (data not available or over 10 years old): Caltech , MIT, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon.

Unsurprisingly, the schools with the most grade inflation also had the highest SAT scores. Princeton has the 5th lowest average GPA of the top 25, and the second highest SAT score of the top 25 (second to Yale, which has an average GPA of 3.51). Also, Georgetown has an average GPA almost the same as Harvard's, but 100 points lower in SAT score - how come no one thinks of Georgetown when grade inflation is mentioned?

Oh, and Brown's grades are jokes.

It would be nice if they broke down GPAs by major though. At Stanford most Bio/Ochem courses have a curve centered on B-/C+ range. Econ and social sciences are probably centered on a B range, and humanities on a B+/A-. There is an honor society for people with GPAs above a certain range, and guess what, its about 90% humanities majors.

 

[bomgd3]

UIUC Engineering felt pretty damn deflated to me.

 

[Perth Domer]

Notre Dame is ranked #20, why isn't it included? Anyways, in the college of Science Cum Laude (top 30%) is 3.66, Magna Cum laude (top 15%) is 3.83, and Summa (top 5%) is a 3.91. Interestingly, our college (probably about half pre meds or more) has the highest GPA, yet the average GPA in Science major classes is a 3.2 or so. Pre Meds get the high GPAs by killing non-science classes and the fact that half or more drop pre med after a year or 2, usually leaving for the college of Arts & Letters or Business leaving the higher GPAs.

If I had to guess average GPA is a 3.4 or so for the University as a whole.

We were told not to freak out over USNWR GPA averages at non top 20 med schools. Our GPAs tend to be lower, MCAT higher than average matriculants at schools we get into. we had 96% of those applying with a 3.5-3.75 last year get in, and 100% with 3.5-3.75 science GPA get in. We either get credit or averaging a 30 on the MCAT as a school helps.

 

[Superman DO]

California CC.

At my Cali CC, I made an 89 in O-Chem 1, highest grade in the class, and it was still a B since the A range started at a 90 =( No curve at all. . .not that it matters now!

 

[plzNOCarribbean]

CC's are majorly deflated. In a class of 40, your going to get maybe 2-4 A's and 5-7 B's and a lot of C's and then some D's, I don't think i've seen a F, because people probably drop with those. Needless to say I still find it strange that people tend to believe CC's are easier or lesser. If anything they're pretty difficult and the education's pretty good too ( I helped out guys at the university with their chem and bio stuff).

But this is all anecdotal evidence, and I go to probably the best CC in the country or 2nd best.

^+1. Such a stupid misconception. My CC GPA was a 3.6. My "4" year university is 4.0. CC's grade much tougher because they KNOW, as this thread has proven, that everyone else thinks they are easy schools. The prof's dont like being told what they are teaching is a joke, or easier. I had a lady with a PhD in Biochem teaching me gen chem I at my CC

 

[Perth Domer]

Also, many kids here tend to look down on many/most state schools as easy. (due to looking at friends they know/think they're smarter than get much higher GPAs doing less work). Not saying I agree, just an attitude I've observed.

 

[chman]

Mheh, I think it really depends on the CC. The kids at my CC were EXTREMELY driven because they knew they had made several mistakes in their life that placed them at the CC level. In fact, I found competition at my CC far worse than at the University of Washington. Moreover, as someone above noted, the curves at the University level are ridiculous. I achieved 4.0s in certain classes with a 80% in a class. I think it is silly (although I shouldn't complain).

I wonder if I go to the cc you went to. I am transferring to UW as well... Anyways, to label all cc's as the same is like saying all universities are the same; they obviously vary in difficulty.

 

[Slowpoke]

I've been trying to explain to my peer's at the university exactly what some of you eluded to. Curves at the university allow for a MUCH greater chance of earning an A. Frankly, the straight curves at the California CC I attended really put a dent in my cGPA/sGPA (multiple borderline grades between B/A and was given a B... NO +/- system).

Straight curves are very unforgiving.

 

[chman]

I've been trying to explain to my peer's at the university exactly what some of you eluded to. Curves at the university allow for a MUCH greater chance of earning an A. Frankly, the straight curves at the California CC I attended really put a dent in my cGPA/sGPA (multiple borderline grades between B/A and was given a B... NO +/- system).

Straight curves are very unforgiving.

Yea, but at the same time it is kind of nice to know that the grade you earned is the grade you earned. If I were a professor/instructor, I would only curve if the grades were pretty low as an average.

BTW, I got a C+ in calc I at my cc. The average grade for the class was around a D+, no curve. The no curve tendencies at my cc has not affected my other grades though... in a situation such as that, curving is a good idea.

 

[riceman04]

bwahahahahaha...adcoms I know did not care...All they did was name drop on the schools I attended when I went on my interviews

 

[loveoforganic]

I go to Cal, it's not that bad..but MIT, really? I heard they don't give out letter grades their first term and make everything pass/fail alongside accommodating students really well.

Pretty sure that's true, but I had heard despite that the average GPA was still quite low.

 

[Penner]

Notre Dame is ranked #20, why isn't it included? Anyways, in the college of Science Cum Laude (top 30%) is 3.66, Magna Cum laude (top 15%) is 3.83, and Summa (top 5%) is a 3.91. Interestingly, our college (probably about half pre meds or more) has the highest GPA, yet the average GPA in Science major classes is a 3.2 or so. Pre Meds get the high GPAs by killing non-science classes and the fact that half or more drop pre med after a year or 2, usually leaving for the college of Arts & Letters or Business leaving the higher GPAs.

If I had to guess average GPA is a 3.4 or so for the University as a whole.

We were told not to freak out over USNWR GPA averages at non top 20 med schools. Our GPAs tend to be lower, MCAT higher than average matriculants at schools we get into. we had 96% of those applying with a 3.5-3.75 last year get in, and 100% with 3.5-3.75 science GPA get in. We either get credit or averaging a 30 on the MCAT as a school helps.

There was no info on Notre Dame's avg GPA at gradeinflation.com, I said so in a little note under the list..

 

[Perth Domer]

sorry about missing that.

 

[drizzt3117]

I go to Cal, it's not that bad..but MIT, really? I heard they don't give out letter grades their first term and make everything pass/fail alongside accommodating students really well.

Yeah our first year was pass fail but the classes were pretty rigorous. Not only is their grading curved to a c/b- as the mean, but the way tests are written is challenging, they're generally long multipart essays where getting the answer is worth 1/20 pts, they care that you're approaching the question in a logical and correct way and there isn't much partial credit. While this teaches you to be a good scientist, it's not great for the purposes of med school admissions. A lot of people I know in med school had ~3.1-3.3 there which was considered a pretty good gpa. People who were pretty set on med school and were smart majored in course 14-15 ( Econ or mgmt) those majors were still super science intensive though. Honestly, being able to cross register at harvard and Wellesley raised my gpa a lot, haha. I'd say in general it's a bad place to be premed, that said, I wasn't planning on going into medicine when I attended.

 

[Penner]

Yeah our first year was pass fail but the classes were pretty rigorous. Not only is their grading curved to a c/b- as the mean, but the way tests are written is challenging, they're generally long multipart essays where getting the answer is worth 1/20 pts, they care that you're approaching the question in a logical and correct way and there isn't much partial credit. While this teaches you to be a good scientist, it's not great for the purposes of med school admissions. A lot of people I know in med school had ~3.1-3.3 there which was considered a pretty good gpa. People who were pretty set on med school and were smart majored in course 14-15 ( Econ or mgmt) those majors were still super science intensive though. Honestly, being able to cross register at harvard and Wellesley raised my gpa a lot, haha. I'd say in general it's a bad place to be premed, that said, I wasn't planning on going into medicine when I attended.

Which I think is ridiculous, because the average MIT student is certainly smarter than most engineering majors with 3.9s at state schools. I swear, if I ever become a dean of admissions, I'd do things different. Reward people for challenging themselves instead of providing disincentives to do so.

 

[drizzt3117]

Which I think is ridiculous, because the average MIT student is certainly smarter than most engineering majors with 3.9s at state schools. I swear, if I ever become a dean of admissions, I'd do things different. Reward people for challenging themselves instead of providing disincentives to do so.

I suppose. The thing you find out as a med student is that while intelligence helps as it does in every other field, medicine isn't about getting the smartest people. It's not a field that rewards intellectual curiosity, at least not in the medical education portion of it. If that's what you want, you're a lot better off going into research. The practice of medicine itself has become pretty formulaic. While new innovations are coming out, they are primarily research driven, and although clinician-scientists do drive some of that, the average clinician isn't using all of their brain power on a daily basis in most if not all fields. This is one of the reasons that I'm interested in the research aspect of academic medicine.