Schools with problem based learning?

[mcchicken1985]

Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of schools with problem-based learning? Tried searching forums but couldn't find one.

For those of you who have interviewed/in med school, what is your opinion of pbl? Does it really "water down" the curriculum?

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[jochi1543]

I have heard that apparently people from PBL schools don't score as high on the USMLEs, on average, because the test is more geared towards the traditional approach. Same issue here in Canada with the schools that heavily rely on PBL - students just don't do as well on the standardized tests.

 

[ryandote]

Hey all,

Does anyone have a list of schools with problem-based learning? Tried searching forums but couldn't find one.

For those of you who have interviewed/in med school, what is your opinion of pbl? Does it really "water down" the curriculum?

I got to sit in on a few PBL sessions on a few of my interview days. In my opinion, they sucked. Sure, they were interesting or whatever, but I didn't feel like I learned as much as I would have from a good lecture or book-read.

I know, that sounds lame, but it was really how I felt. I think PBL would be a fantastic supplement to a lecture/book-read on a subject... but a purely PBL curriculum would blow.

 

[Repo Man]

I know Yale uses it, but I'm not sure how much. I read that in the US News & World Report Guide to Medical Colleges or whatever it's called.

 

[SB100]

Tufts does too.

 

[riceman04]

Tufts does too.

Schools w/ curriculum predicated on PBL:

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8.

I am sure there are more

Schools that incorporate PBL/case based learning into curriculum as supplementary component:

- most schools nowadays
- I think Howard was the only one I researched that lacked a PBL component (but I may be mistaken)

 

[anaeem]

Mercer does as well

 

[Polynikes]

I think that having PBL occasionally, but mainly doing the traditional approach would be ideal.

Like, do traditional lecture material for a week, then do some PBL involving the things you just learned. That might be pretty cool.

I don't like the PBL personally. I don't have any exposure to it, but from reading about it, I don't think I'd do too well with just that method.

Isn't it basically like independent study?

 

[cleansocks]

PBL is a once a week, 2-3 hour session at Tufts (therefore is supplementary to, and not a cornerstone of, the education)

Schools w/ curriculum predicated on PBL:

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8.

I am sure there are more

Schools that incorporate PBL/case based learning into curriculum as supplementary component:

- most schools nowadays
- I think Howard was the only one I researched that lacked a PBL component (but I may be mistaken)

 

[Tired Pigeon]

The concept of PBL is great, but the execution is usually not. We do a small amount of PBL, and by and large I have found it not a good use of my time. The small groups for PBL are mandatory attendance, and you end up just sitting there listening to your classmates drone on and on about completely tangential, unrelated points (just to show how smart they are! they read jama and nejm!). I actually like case-based learning, but I prefer to do it on my own.

 

[DogzRool]

Schools w/ curriculum predicated on PBL:

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8.

I am sure there are more

Schools that incorporate PBL/case based learning into curriculum as supplementary component:

- most schools nowadays
- I think Howard was the only one I researched that lacked a PBL component (but I may be mistaken)

I'm a rising M2 at Northwestern. We had a maximum of 4 hours a week of PBL last year (so, PBL is not a major part of our curriculum) - just FYI!

 

[riceman04]

I'm a rising M2 at Northwestern. We had a maximum of 4 hours a week of PBL last year (so, PBL is not a major part of our curriculum) - just FYI!

then can you explain your curriculum

 

[smq123]

Schools w/ curriculum predicated on PBL:

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8.

Add CCLCM at Case Western Reserve. I think it's entirely PBL.

Isn't it basically like independent study?

Not quite. The part that you present to your small group is independently studied. But you're supposed to "learn" from the other people in your small group. I use the word "learn" loosely, since I have yet to learn anything useful from PBL.

There's a kid from CCLCM who used to post here. If you search for posts by CCLCMer (I think that's his SN), he's the biggest proponent of PBL when done correctly (i.e. not how it's done at most schools).

 

[CCLCMer]

Add CCLCM at Case Western Reserve. I think it's entirely PBL.



Not quite. The part that you present to your small group is independently studied. But you're supposed to "learn" from the other people in your small group. I use the word "learn" loosely, since I have yet to learn anything useful from PBL.

There's a kid from CCLCM who used to post here. If you search for posts by CCLCMer (I think that's his SN), he's the biggest proponent of PBL when done correctly (i.e. not how it's done at most schools).

I'm still here, I just was really busy for a while because our portfolios were due last week.

mchicken1985, our program is part PBL, part seminar. As first years, we have 20 hours per week of contact time, and 6 hours of that is PBL. We have 8 hours per week of seminars and 4 hours per week in clinic or clinical skills class. The last two hours is our humanities and social sciences in medicine class, and we also have a research seminar for one hour per week. Next year our schedule will be almost the same except we have an extra four hours of clinic each week (so 24 hours total per week, eight hours of clinic, still six hours per week of PBL.) PBL isn't for everyone, but it's integrated into our program really well, and I like it a lot. I think most of my classmates do too. I learn the most from reading myself and PBL and the least from seminar. I wrote a post about PBL earlier in the allo forum, which I think is what smq123 is referring to. Here's the link if you're interested: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5046163#post5046163

jochi1543, it isn't true that PBL curriculums don't prepare people as well for the boards as traditional curriculums do. I read up on this a lot before coming here, and there are lots of studies published that compare different curriculums. They show that traditional and PBL curriculums both prepare people for the boards more or less equally well. So if you want to go to a school with PBL, you don't have to worry that you won't be prepared for the boards. I can tell you that our first class took the boards last year and we had 100% pass rate with a class average of 229. The national average is about 215.

On a side note, I see that you're from Canada. One of the first PBL schools was McMaster.

 

[mongrel]

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8. Yale (not sure how much)
9. Mercer does as well[/quote]
10. CCLCM at Case Western Reserve
11. Mizzou

Made a list and added Mizzou. Whenever I've heard their admissions guys talk, they claim to have been the ones who pioneered PBL. I won't try to back this up, but I do know they've been using it for awhile, have tweaked it quite a bit since the start, and are getting good results. Ex: They generally have below-average matriculants and but then have consistently above-average board scores.

 

[danierrr]

Rochester has 2-hour-long PBL sessions three times a week (M W F).

 

[riceman04]

Rochester has 2-hour-long PBL sessions three times a week (M W F).

Congrats fellow Alum!!!!!!


I see you are NOT from MARTEL!!!!thumbdownmeanie:

Have they started building the 2 new colleges yet?

And how does the library look now!
I am here at Penn now and their LIBRARIES run circles around Rice's library!

 

[MChitty]

My roommates are Tufts MS3s and they said they only had PBL once a week. I wouldn't call it a major component of the curriculum.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

11. Mizzou

Made a list and added Mizzou. Whenever I've heard their admissions guys talk, they claim to have been the ones who pioneered PBL. I won't try to back this up, but I do know they've been using it for awhile, have tweaked it quite a bit since the start, and are getting good results. Ex: They generally have below-average matriculants and but then have consistently above-average board scores.

Mizzou was an early adopter of PBL (1993). I don't think they were the absolute first, though. They use a "10/10" rule: 10 hours per week of PBL, 10 hours per week of lecture.

 

[GreenCenter]

That'd be nice if someone could re-order that list based on level of emphasis on PBL.

 

[IUHoosier21]

Penn State uses a heavy dose of PBL.

 

[DogzRool]

then can you explain your curriculum

(at Northwestern)

Happy to explain, Riceman!

Last year (M1) we had lectures from 8 to 10 every morning, followed by either lab (histo, anatomy) or PBL from 10 to 12. Lab was usually three times a week and PBL was twice a week. There were some units (the curriculum is system based) that were heavy on anatomy lab, like the musculoskeletal unit, where we didn't have PBL at all.

Twice a week in the afternoon we had two hours of either patient examination skills or some kind of ethics/cultural dynamics class.

Hope this helps!

 

[Orthodoc40]

MSU CHM Year 2 is PBL.

I have heard that PBL prepares students equally well for the boards, too.

 

[medhope31]

I think that people like PBL really like to take control of their own education. Its not about talking about obscure tangential aspects of medicine that aren't important, but more about learning things you want to learn and that spark and interest. I personally think that I would love this type of learning because I have gotten the most out of courses in which I have complete control over what i read and can do whatever I want- I learn the most. I think the professor is there to help. A lot of studies I have read show that PLB is especially useful in developing social interaction with patients and empathetic approach to medicine. I think that its a way to revolutionize the healthcare system!!!

alright just to clarify, USCF DOES NOT have PBL system. It is the Joint Medical Program in the Berkeley School of Public Health that is associated with UCSF that has 100% PBL curriculum.

Btw, does anybody have an updated list of PBL schools. I know that Harvard is PBL, at least somewhat. Is there a centralized location?

Thanks!!

 

[scarletgirl777]

I am bumping this old thread because I would really like to know which schools are entirely based on PBL and it seemed based on the posts thus far that the list here is not accurate. When you go to schools' websites, they do not just tell you straight up WE ARE PBL and this would be useful to know. So if anyone has some good solid leads on schools that are ALL PBL or MOSTLY PBL, I would appreciate posts. Also, comments on how PBL is graded at specific schools would be awesome. Thanks!

 

[In Vino Veritas]

Penn is a combination of PBL and Lecture. Harvard's "New Pathways" program is almost entirely PBL (and I think they were the ones to engineer PBL). Columbia P&S is entirely lecture. I'm pre-med like most of you guys, so sadly, I can't comment specifically on the grading, but I thought I'd throw those schools into the mix.

 

[Canvas]

Pitt also has a PBL component. The students I talked to on my interview day really liked it.

 

[Indigo252]

That's funny -- all the students I met at Pitt hated it (with passion). I guess that just illustrates that it's a personal learning style preference.

 

[Caesar]

SIU in Illinois uses it. I sat in on a session and I liked it alot. I think it is all about how you like to learn. Also, I'm fairly sure they were the first, if not one of the first to start using Standardized patient PBL.

 

[bcat85]

SIU in Illinois uses it. I sat in on a session and I liked it alot. I think it is all about how you like to learn. Also, I'm fairly sure they were the first, if not one of the first to start using Standardized patient PBL.

Beat me to it... Anyway... give this a read:

Hell On Earth.

 

[airbus]

Drexel has two paths - IFM and PIL. IFM is mostly lecture based and has some small groups while PIL (Problem Integrated Learning) is mostly small groups with some lectures (called resource sessions). In essence there are two schools within Drexel and both groups are very separate.

Drexel states that both programs score about equivalently on step 1 of the boards. The PIL program students are at a slight advantage at the start of their clinical rotations because: 1) of practice giving presentations and speaking in front of a group, 2) they have a practicum at the end of their 1st yr which is basically a mini-intro rotation. That said, most of the students I have talked to agree that the "advantage" is leveled within a few weeks to a few months.

In the end you will learn what you need. Almost all learning in yrs 1&2 is from the txtbook or program notes (either lecture or PBL) anyway. IMHO, the decision re whether to study in either format should be based on where you think you will be happiest and most stimulated. Clearly, PBL is more interactive, but some some people enjoy the passivity of lecture in balance with active solo learning. In addition, not all problem based programs are comparable - some may be more organized or have faculty (instructors/facilitators) that are better trained to keep students on track and learning.

Lastly, I have a relative that went to Cornell (problem based curriculum) and loved it. Based on her personality, I would have never have previously guessed that she would have enjoyed group study as much as she did.

 

[Phoenix.]

Loyola. From looking at their online schedule, it seems like each morning they have an hour of lecture, followed by about two and a half hours of small group discussions (PBL), then the topic is summarized/capped with a 30-40 minute lecture. It seems like they finish most days around 12:30 or 1:30pm, but on Wednesdays they have an additional session later in the day (2:30-4:30?), and there is a clinical class that meets one other day (either Tues or Thursday afternoon, or Wed morning). And there is an optional Friday question and answer session in the afternoon.

It's a block, systems based curriculum with one class at a time. Supposedly they ease students in gradually in the first year, so it's not too overwhelming. Second year though....

Anyway, I've heard very good things about their curriculum.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Fun little tid-bit...

"Problem-based learning outcomes: ten years of experience at the University of Missouri-Columbia School of Medicine." Hoffman K. Hosokawa M. Blake R Jr. Headrick L. Johnson G. Acad Med. 81(7):617-25, 2006 Jul.

Purpose: To add to a previous publication from the University of Missouri—Columbia School of Medicine (UMCSOM) on students’ improvement in United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) Step 1 and Step 2 scores after the implementation of a problem-based learning (PBL) curriculum by studying the performance of ten PBL class cohorts at the UMCSOM.

Method: Characteristics of graduating classes matriculating in both traditional and PBL curricula, 1993–2006, were compared for Medical College Admission Test component scores, undergraduate grade point averages, performance on the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 exams, faculty contact hours, and residency directors’ evaluations of UMCSOM graduates’ performance in the first year of residency.

Results: Mean scores of six of the ten comparisons for USMLE Step 1 and six of nine comparisons for USMLE Step 2 are significantly higher (p < .01) for UMCSOM PBL students than for first-time examinees nationally. These differences cannot be accounted for by preselection of academically advantaged students, increased time on task, or reduced class size. Gains in performance continue into residency, as evidenced by program directors’ perceptions of superior performance of UMCSOM PBL graduates.

Conclusions: The PBL curricular changes implemented with the graduating class of 1997 resulted in higher performances on USMLEs and improved evaluations from residency program directors. These changes better prepare graduates with knowledge and skills needed to practice within a complex health care system. Outcomes reported here support the investment of financial and human resources in our PBL curriculum.

 

[EkLiLiaN]

Fun little tid-bit...

"Problem-based learning outcomes: ten years of experience at the University of Missouri-Columbia School of Medicine." Hoffman K. Hosokawa M. Blake R Jr. Headrick L. Johnson G. Acad Med. 81(7):617-25, 2006 Jul.

Purpose: To add to a previous publication from the University of Missouri—Columbia School of Medicine (UMCSOM) on students’ improvement in United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) Step 1 and Step 2 scores after the implementation of a problem-based learning (PBL) curriculum by studying the performance of ten PBL class cohorts at the UMCSOM.

Method: Characteristics of graduating classes matriculating in both traditional and PBL curricula, 1993–2006, were compared for Medical College Admission Test component scores, undergraduate grade point averages, performance on the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 exams, faculty contact hours, and residency directors’ evaluations of UMCSOM graduates’ performance in the first year of residency.

Results: Mean scores of six of the ten comparisons for USMLE Step 1 and six of nine comparisons for USMLE Step 2 are significantly higher (p < .01) for UMCSOM PBL students than for first-time examinees nationally. These differences cannot be accounted for by preselection of academically advantaged students, increased time on task, or reduced class size. Gains in performance continue into residency, as evidenced by program directors’ perceptions of superior performance of UMCSOM PBL graduates.

Conclusions: The PBL curricular changes implemented with the graduating class of 1997 resulted in higher performances on USMLEs and improved evaluations from residency program directors. These changes better prepare graduates with knowledge and skills needed to practice within a complex health care system. Outcomes reported here support the investment of financial and human resources in our PBL curriculum.

Interestante!

 

[TheRealMD]

UTMB in Galveston, Texas is mostly PBL with a few lectures here and there.

 

[nu2004]

1.Tufts
2. Cornell
3. UCSF
4. USC (just switched)
5. UTMB (Galveston)
6. Northwestern
7. Drexel (one of their pathways offers this option)
8. Yale (not sure how much)
9. Mercer does as well
10. CCLCM at Case Western Reserve
11. Mizzou

Made a list and added Mizzou. Whenever I've heard their admissions guys talk, they claim to have been the ones who pioneered PBL. I won't try to back this up, but I do know they've been using it for awhile, have tweaked it quite a bit since the start, and are getting good results. Ex: They generally have below-average matriculants and but then have consistently above-average board scores.

Case Western (the University Program, NOT the CCLCM) also does about 4 hours/week of PBL. I think it's the best innovation in medical education since the organ-based approach.

 

[chad5871]

Case Western (the University Program, NOT the CCLCM) also does about 4 hours/week of PBL. I think it's the best innovation in medical education since the organ-based approach.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a list of schools that follow an organ-based curriculum? I know that VCU does...

 

[DrMidlife]

Hawaii is about 75% PBL.

 

[edfig99]

cornell's curriculum is an integrated curriculum. only about 4.5 hrs a week are pbl. the rest of the time is divided between lectures, lab/small groups, journal club, and a longitudinal course one day a week where all the non-science courses are taught. it's not a "heavily pbl" school, but about 2/3rd of the time are spent in smaller group/interactive settings.

 

[DEdm]

.