If you don't feel the need to spend time in their ER and traveling out there would be a pain do you feel like second looks are necessary for a program to rank you higher?
Second Looks Necessary??
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The conventional wisdom is that second looks are for your benefit - to help you choose between top contenders, and not so much as a way to increase your chances of matching at those places.
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I think that varies by program. At one, the PD made a point of it to tell the applicants that the program does not keep track of who comes back for a second look and therefore does not use that to judge applicants in any way. However, at another program several people told me that if I am interested I should really come back for a second look. One resident clearly said, 'everyone who matched here, had done a second look.'
It seems some programs will judge your interest based on your choice, and some will not care. I think the best thing to do would be to email one of the residents and ask them what the program's attitude to second looks is.
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No. I feel like second looks are not necessary for a program to rank me higher, not necessary for me to figure out if I want to rank them higher, and not necessary for anything unless your goal is to make your interviewing expenses higher. It's one thing if going back might affect YOUR ranking decision, but if you already know it's your top choice, just call or email and tell them.
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Well that sounds like a crock of shit, and any program that essentially required you to do a second look in order to get ranked is full of themselves. Obviously they could not be concerned about the increased expense incurred by requiring this. Screw that program.
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I've been on the selection committee at two "selective" residencies, and neither thought that a second look was all that meaningful.
The only reason to do a second look for purposes of boosting your chances would be if you have specific, reliable information that such a thing makes a difference at a particular program. My experience is that most places don't care.
The only reason to do a second look for purposes of boosting your chances would be if you have specific, reliable information that such a thing makes a difference at a particular program. My experience is that most places don't care.
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I didn't second look anywhere, including my first choice where I subsequently matched.
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Curious, name the program.
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PM'ed you.
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Hmmm, no - no PM here.
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I think that doing a second look increases odds you will match there if you put them number 1. When I took second looks this year, the program coordinator took note of the residents and attendings who were working with that night. I can't say that the program might be subjecting you to a voluntary interview when you do this, but as long as you look interested, ask questions, and fit in you'll be fine. I would imagine that when second-lookers come back, they are much more subjectively evaluated than on interview day.
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I would say that it varies greatly between programs, and even within the same program depending on the applicant. I have seen some programs where everyone who matched, did a second look. There are some programs who don't even formally offer second looks. Some programs encourage them, but don't require them. What I have seen most of is that there are certain applicants who they will take regardless, but other applicants who may be on the cuff, will need to do a second look if they want any chance to match there. Doing a second look, or showing interest in doing a second look certainly seems to be a wise choice, especially if the program goes out of their way to personally offer you one (it helps them to gauge who is truly interested in that particular program, as opposed someone who just wants a spot somewhere). With that in mind, my program matched all 8 spots this year... 6 of them came for a second look, and the 2 others attempted to arrange a second look, but where unable to make all the details work, and sent very personalized messages expressing their apologies for not being able to come. Having said that, I did not do a second look. The one program I did a second look at, I did not match, so take that for what it's worth.
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Also remember that some people who came for a second look ended up being pulled from rank lists due to their interaction during the second look. Though informal, it can be every much, if not more important than your formal interview, especially if you are already on the cuff.
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Be prepared to bring the A game, I did a second look and was assigned to work with the program director. The shift went well but a like I told someone, at the end of 10 hours with the program director I was either going to be near the top of their list or end up not ranked. Bit of a double edged sword. But I felt that if they didn't want me there are after working with me for a shift, I certainly wasn't going to fit in with the residency.
For places far away I would suggest doing some shadowing during the interview day or the day before or after. I did this at about 3 programs that it would have been hard to get back to. You don't have to do a full shift, but just seeing a few hours gives you a sense if the place is well run, how the residents interact with the nurses, what their definition of "busy is." (The last one was super interesting, some of the places were like, "we're getting slammed" and if the same number of patients came into another place it meant that there was a blizzard and no one could really get to the hospital.)
For places far away I would suggest doing some shadowing during the interview day or the day before or after. I did this at about 3 programs that it would have been hard to get back to. You don't have to do a full shift, but just seeing a few hours gives you a sense if the place is well run, how the residents interact with the nurses, what their definition of "busy is." (The last one was super interesting, some of the places were like, "we're getting slammed" and if the same number of patients came into another place it meant that there was a blizzard and no one could really get to the hospital.)
I did second looks at my top 3, not big name programs but they were 3yr programs in NYC so probably desirable places. They were very casual, got along well at all, sent them nice emails etc. Didn't match at any of them. From my experience it seems like second looks don't help, but then again maybe it did bump me up a few spots, just not enough to make the cut. I can't imagine I would've gotten dropped because of the second looks I did(God I hope not!). Anyways, anyone involved in administration that KNOWS whether or not second looks can help or not? That's the only way to really know.
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I strongly recommend taking a 2nd look.
At the end of the interview process, programs often really have a hard time remembering who's who, and it's a lie if they told you otherwise. You might be memorably stellar, but so is everyone else thus it evens out, and think of it as doing the programs a favor by refreshing their memories. Help them help you, that kind of thing.
Just make sure you really express your (honest) interests to them and be your(best)self. And do a little bit homework before or pay a little bit extra attention when you're there, and see if one of the residency or administrative attending is there, or even a more senior resident that's more likely to have a say, and try to interact postively with them. It's also a way for you to see what it's like for them to be at work and assess if you'd be happy working there.
At the end of the interview process, programs often really have a hard time remembering who's who, and it's a lie if they told you otherwise. You might be memorably stellar, but so is everyone else thus it evens out, and think of it as doing the programs a favor by refreshing their memories. Help them help you, that kind of thing.
Just make sure you really express your (honest) interests to them and be your(best)self. And do a little bit homework before or pay a little bit extra attention when you're there, and see if one of the residency or administrative attending is there, or even a more senior resident that's more likely to have a say, and try to interact postively with them. It's also a way for you to see what it's like for them to be at work and assess if you'd be happy working there.
