Seeking Financial Guidance for PsyD Program and Post-Doctoral Considerations

[Choices247]

Hi all!

Background​

I currently hold two Bachelor's degrees and a Master's in Science with approximately $97,000 in accumulated student loan debt. I have successfully passed the EPPP and am practicing as a licensed psychological associate in Texas. I'm considering several PsyD program offers, which would likely increase my total debt to over $300,000 upon completion.

Financial Questions​

1. Student Loan Limits: How do clinicians typically manage living expenses and tuition costs when approaching or exceeding FAFSA lifetime borrowing limits halfway into a PsyD program?
2. Grad PLUS Loans: Can I utilize Grad PLUS loans to cover both tuition and living expenses for the entirety of a PsyD program? If not, what alternative funding sources have colleagues successfully used for:
   • Living expenses
   • Emergency funds
   • Tuition costs
3. Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF): For those pursuing PSLF-eligible employment post-graduation:
   • How manageable are monthly loan payments with a $300,000+ debt and approximately $100,000 annual salary?
   • What repayment strategies have proven most effective?

Decision Considerations​

I'm evaluating whether pursuing an out-of-state PsyD program would be financially viable given my current debt load and future earning potential. Personal experiences, strategies, and insights from those who have successfully navigated similar financial circumstances would be invaluable to my decision-making process.

Thank you for your professional guidance and expertise.

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[psych.meout]

What is your goal in getting a doctorate?

Why are you only considering unfunded programs?

 

[WisNeuro]

I am astounded that people are still banking on PSLF going forward with the current political climate and what has actually been happening.

 

[PsyDr]

1) APA's 2021 report states that the 50th percentile of doctoral psychologists earn $90k.
2) Some random calculator online says that your monthly payments for $300k of student loans at 7%, over the course of 20 years, would be $2k ish.
3) Some random online paycheck calculator says your biweekly paycheck, WITHOUT RETIREMENT CONTRIBUTIONS OR HEALTH INSURANCE, would be ~$2,700.00. (this sounds a few hundred low from my experience).
4) Monthly take home pay would be ~$3200.00/month, before health insurance, car loan, car insurance, etc.
5) Based upon those numbers, the maximum home loan you'd qualify for is about $30k. According to Zillow, there are 12,093 houses in the state of Texas below $50k. Not nice houses, but houses.
6) PSLF's future is "uncertain" now. I typically dedicate an amount of time that is consistent with how much I am risking. If I was making a $300k investment, I would do substantial investigations into that investment.

So... not a great financial choice for the long haul.

But maybe you have a very detailed plan that changes all of those numbers (e.g., PSLF, marrying well, going into neuropsych or RxP or consulting or some highly specific niche, you are single and have a terminal disease that will kill you in 10 years, etc). We live in a world where there are pet chiropractors, so anything is possible.

https://www.apa.org/workforce/data-tools

Student Loan Calculator | Bankrate

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Take-Home-Paycheck Calculator

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Affordability Calculator - How Much House Can I Afford? | Zillow

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[ClinicalABA]

Honestly, seems pretty absurd that you would even consider this. The modal outcome for that level of student loan debt and a typical psychologist salary is grim. If your only option is a 300k debt PsyD program it is safest to assume your prospects are not going to be that far above average. Don't do this to yourself.

 

[jdawg2017]

My close friend has about this much debt from an unfunded PhD program. Even with a higher salary as a neuropsychologist than the median psychologist, they regret their choice and know they will essentially never own a home unless they marry someone rich.

I pretty much exclusively never encourage anyone to attend an unfunded PhD program. The ROI for an unfunded program doesn’t remotely make sense in 99.9% of cases.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I can't answer whether a Grad PLUS loan would be an option. Seems like it might be, but you could try reaching out to the program itself, or a financial aid program of a prospective school. Beyond that, I imagine the only other option would be private student loans, which will probably have a higher interest rate than government-provided loans.

Personally, as others have said, there's no way I'd consider taking on that debt load with a typical psychologist's salary, even in normal political times. But right now specifically, it seems like an exceedingly risky decision. I don't even know that student aid websites are letting you calculate a hypothetical monthly payment for income-based repayment plans (because no one really knows what those plans will look like when everything's said and done), let alone actually apply for any plan. I strongly suspect the SAVE plan, at the very least, won't survive in its current form.

Meaning that if you take on those loans, there's a chance: A) income-based repayment will not be available, or will be available only in limited fashion; and B) while waiting to even be able to apply for income-based repayment, whatever form it takes, the loans may go into repayment using the standard repayment formula (similar to what PsyDr discussed above) or forbearance, meaning they will continue to accumulate interest.

The current administration is no friend to higher education. I would not rely on them to look out for the interests of graduate students in general, and for student loan borrowers in particular. They're already attacking the PSLF eligibility of a variety of employers, which is one way to go after PSLF without dismantling the program directly. Even with an income-based repayment plan, you'd probably be looking at $500-700+ monthly payments, which likely wouldn't even cover the interest on $300k+ in loans. In the absence of PSLF, assuming they still allow general forgiveness, you'd then be making those payments for 25 years. That's a not-insubstantial chunk of your take home pay to be giving away in perpetuity.

I know people who've paid off about half that loan amount as psychologists. I don't know anyone who's actually paid off $>200k as a psychologist.

 

[PsychJustice]

If you're looking to get a PsyD to increase your earning potential from a master's degree, the debt-to-salary ratio will not allow you to make more than you are likely earning now. Please do not take on that much debt - psychologists do not make enough to pay off that kind of money unless you're looking to be the 1% of our field. And I'd very highly recommend not banking on being the 1%. There are debt calculators you can use to see how much your monthly payment would likely be (as @PsyDr has done above) to give you a realistic look at what your net income would truly look like after monthly debt payments, and as they mentioned, average salary ranges from 90-100k. Do the math and see that you would be buried in debt you would never pay off.

 

[Choices247]

I sincerely appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my inquiry. My goal has been to specialize in either Forensic or Neuropsychology (with a stronger inclination toward Forensic). I understand this path requires additional post-doctoral training, internship hours, and board certification examinations.

Currently, I earn approximately $84,000 annually (pre-tax), with student loan payments of about $900 monthly. I've explored options to reduce this financial burden, but programs like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) would still require approximately 10% of my monthly income. My one private loan also requires a monthly payment that cannot be adjusted either.

Based on the valuable insights you've all shared, I'm reconsidering whether pursuing specialized training in Forensic/Neuropsychology would be financially viable long-term. Your collective feedback suggests this might not be the optimal path given my circumstances.

Your guidance has been extremely helpful in my decision-making process. Thank you all tremendously for sharing your expertise and experiences!

 

[Sanman]

I sincerely appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my inquiry. My goal has been to specialize in either Forensic or Neuropsychology (with a stronger inclination toward Forensic). I understand this path requires additional post-doctoral training, internship hours, and board certification examinations.

Currently, I earn approximately $84,000 annually (pre-tax), with student loan payments of about $900 monthly. I've explored options to reduce this financial burden, but programs like Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) would still require approximately 10% of my monthly income. My one private loan also requires a monthly payment that cannot be adjusted either.

Based on the valuable insights you've all shared, I'm reconsidering whether pursuing specialized training in Forensic/Neuropsychology would be financially viable long-term. Your collective feedback suggests this might not be the optimal path given my circumstances.

Your guidance has been extremely helpful in my decision-making process. Thank you all tremendously for sharing your expertise and experiences!

PSLF requires 10 years in public service. The money in forensic and neuropsych is private. That is if PSLF still exists by the time you get out in its current form and there is a public service job for you (it is not looking good).

My suggestion, pay your current debt down aggressively, then reconsider your options. You certainly won't make up the delta in general practice and what you want to do is very competitive. Fail at any step and you are in the negative on ROI.

 

[PsychJustice]

PSLF requires 10 years in public service. The money in forensic and neuropsych is private. That is if PSLF still exists by the time you get out in its current form and there is a public service job for you (it is not looking good).

My suggestion, pay your current debt down aggressively, then reconsider your options. You certainly won't make up the delta in general practice and what you want to do is very competitive. Fail at any step and you are in the negative on ROI.

There are a lot of options for forensic work in state-based settings (state hospitals with forensic units or service forensic populations, court clinics, AMC's that are contracted to perform forensic evals, etc.). Lots of PSLF options for those interested in forensic work but do not want to go into private practice. Money may differ, but the other benefits (PSLF, retirement, state holidays) sometimes outweigh those pay differences!

 

[WisNeuro]

When it comes to PSLF, remember the term "left holding the bag."

 

[Sanman]

There are a lot of options for forensic work in state-based settings (state hospitals with forensic units or service forensic populations, court clinics, AMC's that are contracted to perform forensic evals, etc.). Lots of PSLF options for those interested in forensic work but do not want to go into private practice. Money may differ, but the other benefits (PSLF, retirement, state holidays) sometimes outweigh those pay differences!

State psych hospitals have been closing down for years. Prisons are being privatized and so are many other mental health facility options. This leaves fewer public sector positions. This trend is ongoing and you need them to survive another 15 yrs. Not to mention Trump plans to get rid of PSLF before you can even graduate.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...er of mental,nationwide between 2012 and 2023.

 

[psych.meout]

There are a lot of options for forensic work in state-based settings (state hospitals with forensic units or service forensic populations, court clinics, AMC's that are contracted to perform forensic evals, etc.). Lots of PSLF options for those interested in forensic work but do not want to go into private practice. Money may differ, but the other benefits (PSLF, retirement, state holidays) sometimes outweigh those pay differences!

Seems a bit strange to recommend PSLF like this in the current political environment towards loan forgiveness programs.

 

[WisNeuro]

Seems a bit strange to recommend PSLF like this in the current political environment towards loan forgiveness programs.

Cognitive dissonance and delusional optimism will see us through these trying times.

 

[PsychJustice]

Always a fun chat about PSLF. As I said, many other benefits come with state-based work. For those interested in forensic work, there are plenty of other job opportunities besides private work that provide access to other loan repayment options (even if PSLF goes away). Plenty of states have their own loan repayment options if you work for a qualified employer. Doom and gloom is important to be realistic to (including the current flux with PSLF), but private work is not the only possibility if you want to be a forensic psychologist AND have loans. And in the forensic world, the competency crisis makes state-based employment likely more secure for the time being.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

There are definitely options. And with criminal work, employed options sometimes are better opportunities overall than private practice (e.g., if your state pays poorly for competency evals or other criminal-based work). But yeah, I specifically wouldn't be banking on PSLF if I were going into grad school at the moment.