Selecting a non-gunner school

[drdeezy]

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[Morzh]

Gunners- Every american medical school has gunners. Furthermore, your interview process will not allow you to prove or disprove my theory, as these people generally aren't doing interviews. Also don't let anyone tell you that theres no competition at their school because there is always someone who wants to do ortho at the hosp for special surgery, even at DO schools.

Moreover if you are really worried about dodging the "Gunners" then 90% chance that you are one

(You should really read the rest of his classic post)


My opinion is that you should pick the school with the programs and opportunities that best fit your interests/learning style and will be most advantageous to your goals.

 

[HAV000]

Stats:
3.86 cGPA, 3.85 sGPA, 38Q MCAT
BSc. Biochemistry from University of Virginia
2 years of research with 1 upcoming publication and many merit scholarships
Resident of VA.

I am looking for a school where I will not be too stressed out from competition. I would like to study in a college city/town because I enjoy the around-the-clock conveniences found in college cities/towns such as 24 hour libraries and restaurants.

I also want a residency that has a fair amount of clinic time and surgical time (ENT, Optho, Plastics, etc.)

Here is my list of schools: (Please let me know if you have others in mind!)
1) UVA
2) Medical College of Virginia (VCU)
3) Stanford
4) University of Michigan
5) Columbia U
6) Duke
7) Georgetown U
8) U Maryland

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

So you pared down your special list of schools to the non-gunner variety, and this is what you found??

 

[Tapepsi]

You will always find gunners at every school who want the most competitive specialties (such as the ones you've listed) so that's not avoidable. Like Morzh said find a school that really fits you so that you naturally excel.

Will you get honors in any/some/all of your classes? There's no guarantee. But if you put in the time and effort I'm sure you will do well and most likely do very well on Step I (which is more important for residencies than grades).

 

[ktran17]

Competition exist everywhere in life. Stop worrying about competition and select a school based off what you want out of their program instead; location, rotations, and etc.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Yale is the only totally non-stress school, as far as I know.

No grades, even in rotations. No class ranking.

No exams first 2 years, unless you feel like it. (I assume you have to take the shelfs during 3rd year, but ask a Yalie.)

If you feel like it, take the exams and only you know the grade. No record.

There may be gunners, but they can't hurt you.

(BTW, I got waitlisted at Yale and attend BU, which I love. Yes, there is stress, but it is all self-imposed. Gunners are irrelevant to me.)

 

[raltima07]

YOU seem like a gunner

 

[BarcaBest23]

lol agreed.

24 hour libraries?

Plastics?

Georgetown??

Smells like a Gunner.

YOU seem like a gunner

 

[drdeezy]

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[dbeast]

Hahaha. I guess I was in college but I have realized how pointless it is and don't want that stress or gunner-inducing environment again. Thanks so much for your quick replies everyone!

Translation: I want a school with less competition so it will be easier to outperform everyone in my class

 

[bobsmith]

Yale is the only totally non-stress school, as far as I know.

No grades, even in rotations. No class ranking.

No exams first 2 years, unless you feel like it. (I assume you have to take the shelfs during 3rd year, but ask a Yalie.)

It was like this in the past, but Yale actually does have grades for rotations now. And while some exams are optional, there are required qualifying exams at the end of each course for the first two years.

 

[lpmarcus010]

I would eliminate Georgetown. It is a den of gunners that think they are the competing with everyone. While in a Georgetown med class this past year, I had to miss a day of lecture to attend a med school interview (I was an SMP student), and when I came back, I had to ask almost a dozen med students to get that day's notes from them. Most just simply said "No!" straight up. This being said, while the students at G'town are super competitive, most are from small liberal arts colleges in the Northeast and are not that well versed in biology, thus it is not hard to outcompete these "gunners". Just my experience...

 

[metallica81788]

Every school has gunners. You can also avoid them at every school.

 

[Whatyousay]

I also want a residency that has a fair amount of clinic time and surgical time (ENT, Optho, Plastics, etc.)

Here is my list of schools: (Please let me know if you have others in mind!)
1) UVA
2) Medical College of Virginia (VCU)
3) Stanford
4) University of Michigan
5) Columbia U
6) Duke
7) Georgetown U
8) U Maryland

So... you're basically trying to avoid gunners by applying to top 50/20/10-type medical schools?

What?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

So... you're basically trying to avoid gunners by applying to top 50/20/10-type medical schools?

What?

while pursuing plastics and optho. Yes, sense it makes

 

[MCAT guy]

(You should really read the rest of his classic post)


My opinion is that you should pick the school with the programs and opportunities that best fit your interests/learning style and will be most advantageous to your goals.

 

[Suncrusher]

SDN: Where all the gunners deny it and claim to hate people who are gunners, and where anyone with a normal work ethic is universally disparaged as an actual gunner.

 

[mauberley]

SDN: Where all the gunners deny it and claim to hate people who are gunners, and where anyone with a normal work ethic is universally disparaged as an actual gunner.

Sounds about right.

 

[nabeel76]

I would eliminate Georgetown. It is a den of gunners that think they are the competing with everyone. While in a Georgetown med class this past year, I had to miss a day of lecture to attend a med school interview (I was an SMP student), and when I came back, I had to ask almost a dozen med students to get that day's notes from them. Most just simply said "No!" straight up. This being said, while the students at G'town are super competitive, most are from small liberal arts colleges in the Northeast and are not that well versed in biology, thus it is not hard to outcompete these "gunners". Just my experience...

Gtown doesn't actually provide a note-taking service? Or recorded video streams of lectures? What if you are the type of person that does better by not attending lectures? I could of swore they advertised this service but I could be wrong...

 

[bobsmith]

I think the whole "gunner" term is kind of ridiculous. I thought it was meant to refer to people who intentionally sabotage others and try to prevent them from doing well (note: by this definition, I've never met a gunner), but apparently it has just come to mean anyone who spends a lot of time studying and working hard.

My school is pass/fail, but there's probably a handful of kids who would be defined as "gunners" by SDN -- they've got their eyes set on a competitive specialty, they spend a lot of time at the library, they prep for everything, etc.

And to be perfectly honest, I really love having them at the school:
If I didn't fully prepare for a small group section, do you know who is bailing me out and answering the teacher's questions? The "gunners"
If I'm in a small group and we have to do a presentation, do you know who is taking charge and making sure everything gets done? The "gunners"
Do you know who is sending out the super useful study guides a week before the exam? The "gunners"
When there's an awfully worded question on the test, do you know who is taking their time to make sure the professor hears about it? The "gunners"

The P/F atmosphere really helps (I'm sure in another environment, these kids might not be as helpful), but if I had to choose between working with a "gunner" and a slacker (a kid who misses discussion sections and forces it to become mandatory attendance, or who just doesn't show up for group meetings and makes everyone else do the work), I'd choose the "gunner" every time

So thanks, "gunners." I, for one, appreciate you.

 

[metallica81788]

I think the whole "gunner" term is kind of ridiculous. I thought it was meant to refer to people who intentionally sabotage others and try to prevent them from doing well (note: by this definition, I've never met a gunner), but apparently it has just come to mean anyone who spends a lot of time studying and working hard.

Yeah, that's pretty much what it has turned into.

Even our professors refer to "gunners" - but more in a joking way about people who are ahead of material and really want to know everything even if it isn't relevant.

 

[Narmerguy]

I think the whole "gunner" term is kind of ridiculous. I thought it was meant to refer to people who intentionally sabotage others and try to prevent them from doing well (note: by this definition, I've never met a gunner), but apparently it has just come to mean anyone who spends a lot of time studying and working hard.

My school is pass/fail, but there's probably a handful of kids who would be defined as "gunners" by SDN -- they've got their eyes set on a competitive specialty, they spend a lot of time at the library, they prep for everything, etc.

And to be perfectly honest, I really love having them at the school:
If I didn't fully prepare for a small group section, do you know who is bailing me out and answering the teacher's questions? The "gunners"
If I'm in a small group and we have to do a presentation, do you know who is taking charge and making sure everything gets done? The "gunners"
Do you know who is sending out the super useful study guides a week before the exam? The "gunners"
When there's an awfully worded question on the test, do you know who is taking their time to make sure the professor hears about it? The "gunners"

The P/F atmosphere really helps (I'm sure in another environment, these kids might not be as helpful), but if I had to choose between working with a "gunner" and a slacker (a kid who misses discussion sections and forces it to become mandatory attendance, or who just doesn't show up for group meetings and makes everyone else do the work), I'd choose the "gunner" every time

So thanks, "gunners." I, for one, appreciate you.

The actual meaning of gunners has become largely distorted over the years. The whole "gunning others down" aspect of the term has been lost. Being a Nerd, or OCD, or hyper competitive, or extremely driven...does not make one a gunner.

 

[highhigh]

The actual meaning of gunners has become largely distorted over the years. The whole "gunning others down" aspect of the term has been lost. Being a Nerd, or OCD, or hyper competitive, or extremely driven...does not make one a gunner.

are u sure for that??

 

[BarcaBest23]

Yes he is probably sure OF that, well I'd take out the hyper competitive part.... that breads "gunnerism" but the rest w/e

 

[FIREitUP]

The actual meaning of gunners has become largely distorted over the years. The whole "gunning others down" aspect of the term has been lost. Being a Nerd, or OCD, or hyper competitive, or extremely driven...does not make one a gunner.

I guess tool would be a more appropriate description. OP is a huge tool, no doubt.

 

[lpmarcus010]

Gtown doesn't actually provide a note-taking service? Or recorded video streams of lectures? What if you are the type of person that does better by not attending lectures? I could of swore they advertised this service but I could be wrong...

They do have a note taking service, but it is incredibly slow and takes about a week to get the notes for a lecture. The lecture I missed fell like 3 days before an exam so I was forced to try to get notes from a fellow student. Most had the mentality of "If you do well, then I can't do well on the curve." This was stupid considering that the M1s don't have to compete with SMP students for grades. Nevertheless, this is the prevailing mentality at G'town in my experience, and I am stoked to be attending school somewhere else next year .

 

[VincentAdultman]

I've always found it interesting that some premeds put so much emphasis on wanting P/F in their curricula, avoiding "gunners," and just in general using the school with zero stress or competition as the gold standard of medical education. We wouldn't want stress or competition infiltrating the field of medicine would we?

BTW OP is obvious troll using his question as a smokescreen to show everyone how awesome he is.

 

[NickNaylor]

I've always found it interesting that some premeds put so much emphasis on wanting P/F in their curricula, avoiding "gunners," and just in general using the school with zero stress or competition as the gold standard of medical education. We wouldn't want stress or competition infiltrating the field of medicine would we?

BTW OP is obvious troll using his question as a smokescreen to show everyone how awesome he is.

Not sure if srs.

 

[eli20]

As has already been said - gunners are everywhere. Just avoid them, they're pretty easy to recognize. It is curious how it's always gunner types who want to steer clear of other gunners though...

+1 to Nick

 

[VincentAdultman]

Not sure if srs.

Of course not. It only gets worse the higher you go.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Not sure if srs.

I think it was sarcasm. The competition never ends.

 

[NickNaylor]

Elaborate....

Why would anyone WANT to go to a school where competition and douchebaggery are rampant? I would much rather go to a school where 70 = 100 so that I don't have to be constantly concerned about how I'm doing or wasting my life away trying to score an additional 5 points on an exam. That's not to say everyone is all lovely happy because we're all doctors, but I wouldn't want to be at a place where you see your classmates simply as competition.

 

[eli20]

Elaborate....

I don't know what Nick's point was, but mine would be that there's probably already enough stress in medicine without adding unnecessary extras.

It's not about an infiltration either, its about a reduction. The P/F schools system is newer and generally only in place at more progressive institutions. Obviously it's a response to competition being taken to an unhealthy level.

 

[akaVonk]

If you want to avoid Gunners, don't join the Arsenal FC youth academy.

 

[Whatyousay]

That's not to say everyone is all lovely happy because we're all doctors, but I wouldn't want to be at a place where you see your classmates simply as competition.

If you're not stepping over the broken bodies of your classmates, how will you know if you've won?

 

[NickNaylor]

If you're not stepping over the broken bodies of your classmates, how will you know if you've won?

Good point. You have singlehandedly changed my position.

 

[FIREitUP]

Am I the only one wondering why this thread exists? Op is a tool, probably a gunner, probably has no friends, etc.

 

[CremasterFlash]

+1 for Yale. This place is just awesome. OP - add us to your list, if you come to town for an interview I'll take you out for beers and you can ask me questions.

 

[drdeezy]

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