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Read the Humpty Dumpty book buddy
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Serious post: Why dual degree OMS residency?
Started by D1Bound
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You are a foolish person…sorry, can’t take anything you say seriously. Have fun being disappointed…LOL! Let me show you how to have a serious discussion (please see below)
To all Future OMFS applicants who read this thread…you don’t need an MD to be very successful in ALL things OMFS related. It’s a personal choice…my opinion, if you want to do a LOT of OR stuff, go into a competitive fellow, academics, and/or the overall program seems like the perfect fit the MD/6 year may be worth the effort.
Don’t let those that troll this discussion sway you…it’s a personal choice based on your own journey in life. There are pros and cons to almost everything…choosing a 4 vs 6 year residency is no different. Good luck! All the hard work is worth it…OMFS is a great profession!
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Yea buddy, I'm very sad and disappointed. Does anyone have anything else to add to the topic?
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Yes…
This video shows that all 4-year and 6-year OMFSers need to unite like Macho Man and the Ultimate Warrior, in order to defeat the meddling forces of perio embodied by none other than Rick Flair.
Big Hoss
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Realistically the 4 yr and 6yr graduates will never know what it’s like to be in the others’ shoes. They might think they’re better than the other for some reason but they truly can’t know. Think about what it’s like explaining to your friends and family what it’s like being in residency , it’s impossible. Just accept that we all take different pathways but at the end of the day we’re all Oral and Maxillofacial surgeons with the exact same scope of practice who trained very hard to be where we are and that’s pretty badass.
Disagree. Theres some academia people who did 4 year then went back to get their MD. Those opinions would matter more than everyone else in this thread in my opinion.
Ah, the age old question. 4 vs. 6. I went to a 6 and love my MD training. Does is help in my PP, not really. Every once in a while I get a patient who seeks me out because of the MD but this is very rare and not really a reason to get the MD. As the cost of education and dental+medical school increase the 6 yr option will be less attractive. From a PD/Chair/Educator position it is very helpful. I PD and Chair a 4 year program. The amount of info that the residents know or understand medically is very limited. There just is not enough time to get the residents good medical training/education. There are certain things that medical student do that OMS residents don't do and then seem to be behind the curve.
My only fear is OMS turning into teeth and titanium only and if we don't have these options and continue fellowships it will be very easy for the MD's to begin the slow push of getting "dentists" out of the hospital. It always comes down to turf battles in the end.
My final advice: Do what you want or what you feel will make a good residency for you. Dont worry about the 2 years of opportunity cost. All OMS's will make good money regardless. If you are worried about 2 years salary. Just do endo.
My only fear is OMS turning into teeth and titanium only and if we don't have these options and continue fellowships it will be very easy for the MD's to begin the slow push of getting "dentists" out of the hospital. It always comes down to turf battles in the end.
My final advice: Do what you want or what you feel will make a good residency for you. Dont worry about the 2 years of opportunity cost. All OMS's will make good money regardless. If you are worried about 2 years salary. Just do endo.
... Um... No, OS used to be a 1 year internship before WWII, then 2 years after WWII, then there was a shift in the dental world saying that Dentists should have more medical training, and this ideology continued to the 1970's when OS expanded their scope to include MF and officially became OMFS. Only then programs started to change to 3 or 4 years which was concurrent to many 6 year tracks popping up. In fact, Harvards first dual degree track opened in 1971. Three years before that, only a 2 year minimum residency requirement was set in 1968, and a whole 15 years later the 4 year minimum requirement in 1986.
And the whole reason of why the dual degree track becoming a thing in the first place? Because many oral surgeons went back to medical school and many more that wanted to. For example, James Edmund Garretson, the father of OS was a dual degree MD, DDS guy from the 1850's. So Harvard said why not just make an integrated program so oral surgeons don’t have to go back to medical school.
Fun fact, a certain current program director of some pretty well known program did a 4 year OMFS program, then years later regretted not going a 6 year program and actually reapplied and did full med school years later. So yes, this happens even with these integrated dual degree programs.
So no, 4 years was not the standard for most of our specialty's history and it wasn’t even that much older 6 year programs. I have no clue why anyone would assume that.
Source: Took an elective of history of dental profession in dental school, and did a project on the history of OMFS. Had a professor that graduated from a 3 year track waaaaaaaaay back.
Edit: added specific years, and fun fact.
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Good info!
- A MD or MD+DDS is mandatory to be an OMFS in Europe. Why do you think that is? Coincidentally, scope of practice for OMFS in Europe is generally broader compared to the US and I find that OMFS is also extremely respected by other specialties (more so than the US).
- Many surgical residents and medical residents from other specialties have commented that after working with 4yr OMFS residents in the past, they noticed their lack of medical foundation while they found that 6yr residents were no different from other MD residents. Take that as you will.
- Many hospitals have institutional policies about privileges granted only to MDs while single degree OMFS are forbidden. Just recently at AAOMS, I was told that at some hospitals, single degree OMFS cannot write H&Ps or admit for patients that are ASA3 and higher. Don't think there is any legal basis for this but just institutional politics.
2 years is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things imo. As many ppl have commented, I have not met a single 6yr grad who regretted getting the MD while I have met multiple 4 yr grads who wish they had done 6yrs.
- Many surgical residents and medical residents from other specialties have commented that after working with 4yr OMFS residents in the past, they noticed their lack of medical foundation while they found that 6yr residents were no different from other MD residents. Take that as you will.
- Many hospitals have institutional policies about privileges granted only to MDs while single degree OMFS are forbidden. Just recently at AAOMS, I was told that at some hospitals, single degree OMFS cannot write H&Ps or admit for patients that are ASA3 and higher. Don't think there is any legal basis for this but just institutional politics.
2 years is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things imo. As many ppl have commented, I have not met a single 6yr grad who regretted getting the MD while I have met multiple 4 yr grads who wish they had done 6yrs.
In what ways is the scope broader in Europe?
Which hospitals do not grant privileges to single degree OMS?
Your obviously a practicing surgeon so your input is valuable. Thank you
