SGU v. NOVA?

[JaggerPlate]

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A few things are fishy with that match list from SGU:

First if around 600 people matriculate each year and the attrition rate is only around 5%, why does that match list only have roughly 400 people on it? Did they fail, did they not pass step 1 or did they fail to match?

There are a bunch of people doing normal residencies well past when they should have been done. This throws up red flags in my book: pgy 8 gen surgery? 2 Pgy 7 gen surgeries? Pgy 7 psych? 2 PGY6 FM (seriously)? PGY6 neuro? 22 people doing PGY 6 general surgeries?

Furthermore with all the talk about carribean holding certain students back from taking step 1, really, how accurate is that step 1 pass rate?

Exactly. I don't know why so many people crazy deny these issues. You are leaving the US to study medicine ... there HAS to be something going on there.

 

[MossPoh]

It has less people on the match list because brits and others also go there for medical school, in smaller amounts. They don't try matching in the US

 

[OnMyWayThere]

If you don't mind the letters DO behind your name, then go that route. You have no idea how nice it is to be close to your family and non med school friends when times get tough. I don't know what those comments about "if you want to practice in the U.S. go to Nova" are all about. I've met MANY successful physicians who graduated from SGU and some from the not so hot carib schools. One of the most famous plastic surgeons in L.A. is a Ross graduate.

 

[AngryBaby]

It has less people on the match list because brits and others also go there for medical school, in smaller amounts. They don't try matching in the US

P R E M A T C H. . . . .

 

[thethethe]

the reason why the numbers don't add up is because as a foreign student, you can prematch.

 

[rockdascrubs786]

well, if you look at their matchlist, be sure to remember that the "list" published is for the class a year ago. I had them send me info for the hell of it and it said their handbook that the matchlist provided is taking counting students a year after graduation.....meaning it includes kids that matched that particular year and those that did not match initially and matched that year after transitional or something like that. US Medical Education>Everyone else

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I'm trying to make the decision of whether to attend SGU (Grenada) or Nova. My deposit for St. George's in due on Feb. 15th, so I need to make a decision soon. If you could offer any advice or personal insight, I would greatly appreciate it.

Here's the deal:

Nova is four hours from home and would be very convenient. I love the campus and I'm indifferent about the whole MD/DO thing. However, I thing it would be an incredibly enriching experience to live outside the U.S. for two years... the antithesis of convenience.

The SGU campus is beautiful and I have always wanted to live in NYC, where SGU has many clinical rotation sites. Currently, it seems that SGU will cost ~10K > Nova during the course of all four years (this number includes $1000 for airfare for each year at SGU). Can anyone tell me if this seems accurate? Although they're both expensive schools, I expected the costs of attending SGU to be significantly higher.

I'm currently leaning towards NOVA because it seems like the obvious choice, but I'm tempted to pull a Robert Frost and take the road less traveled...

But do you think living in Grenada will be a decision I'll later regret? Possibly no longer viewing it as enriching experience, but just a huge pain in the a**? And also the source of a ridiculous amount of debt too? Yet either way I guess I'll be in the hole financially.

Anyhow, this ambivalence is killing me. PLEASE offer any help that you can.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Grenada is not going to be fun experience, unreliable electricity and running water, lack of decent infrastructure, its a third world country. If you have a choice between going to a school in the US and one in the Caribbean, go to a US school even if you are getting a DO instead of an MD, these days there is not much of a gap between MD and DO as was the case in the past.

Robert Frost, road less traveled??? Get into reality, please, medical school is a big investment in time, money, and stress.

A lot of the Caribbean schools have rotations in many different places, you could be moving to different parts of the country every 4 weeks.

I actually met a DO in New York who calls herself "MD" but also places DO with it.

IMGs are getting creamed in the matches lately, its a big risk, there are many people who go overseas and never match into a US residency. DOs have the fallback option of doing DO residencies if an Allopathic program does not pick you.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Grenada is not going to be fun experience, unreliable electricity and running water, lack of decent infrastructure, its a third world country. If you have a choice between going to a school in the US and one in the Caribbean, go to a US school even if you are getting a DO instead of an MD, these days there is not much of a gap between MD and DO as was the case in the past.

Robert Frost, road less traveled??? Get into reality, please, medical school is a big investment in time, money, and stress.

A lot of the Caribbean schools have rotations in many different places, you could be moving to different parts of the country every 4 weeks.

I actually met a DO in New York who calls herself "MD" but also places DO with it.

IMGs are getting creamed in the matches lately, its a big risk, there are many people who go overseas and never match into a US residency. DOs have the fallback option of doing DO residencies if an Allopathic program does not pick you.

A lot of very good points in this post👍

Also, there have been various threads in the surgery forums lately about IMGs having really bad match rates into surgery, interesting you brought it up because I just read them the other day.

Also, I think that that DO is doing seems odd. Is she afraid people won't know that shes a doctor or something ? I don't see the point of including the DO (she should just say 'MD' if she was that worried) except to avoid sticky legal issues.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Trust me foreign countries and tropical locales are not all that. I had a nasty case of sunburn recently. I also nearly got mauled by a half ton Saltwater Crocodile on the way to class, not kidding, I'm in Australia, its like Jurassic Park down here.

 

[gasapple]

I also nearly got mauled by a half ton Saltwater Crocodile on the way to class

 

[tryingtogetin]

SGU takes alot of canadians which typically have scores good enough for alot of USMD programs. And I believe SGU takes 300 students twice a year, How many graduate 400, 500? With that large of class you are bound to have a couple match in tough residencies,but is it proportional to other schools?

I feel it is about time somebody brings this up with regards to this thread. I totally agree with you that many Canadians that are well qualified for US medical schools end up in the Caribbean because they are simply not US residents. I may be one of them lol.

I also agree with other posts that state it will be harder to get residencies as an FMG, but if you work hard enough, you should be able to get a residency to your liking.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Just wondering what the OP decided since it's past their deadline...... 😀

I would choose Nova. Aside from previously posted reasons, I don't want to move my life to a little island that takes a ridiculous amount of time & money to fly to & from every time I want to get home! I talked to a grad from SGU who told me she loved the experience, but that you do get "rock fever" which basically means you are dying to get off the island and can't a lot of the time. I'll visit the Caribbean on a vacation some day.

 

[MossPoh]

I get "rock fever" even when I'm not on a small island. I don't exactly here of many med students driving 9 hours to go home for the weekend every month. 😛 Heck, the way gas is now. Flying from the carribean probably cost the same as that drive! I'm spending about 200 dollars a month on gas now.

 

[slim78]

I lived in the Dominican Republic for two years.

Living in a 3rd world country gets old FAST.

 

[Seneca20]

I've read through all these posts over the last several months and finally decided to take the time to post, take it for what its worth

OP, look at both options and really ask yourself if 4 years down the road you will have any regets. It all comes down to what is most important to you. I looked at the same decision, and I had a lot of personal ties to SGU.

My mentor just recently took a full time position at SGU after a few years of being a visiting lecturer, and one of my profs from A&M is a Dean out there now. They have really done a lot to expand the schools services and scope over the past 10 years. As to the third world living, its only 2 years and it's something you'll always remember and laugh about down the road. I lived in the Dominican for a year, loved it, and I'm a different person today b/c of it.

As to matching, its been discussed to death, bottom line-- you're going to have a more difficult time getting into the more competitive residencies like surgery and such. That being said, if you work you're but off and destroy Step 1 you're making you're own fate. My Girlfriend went to SGU, got into a surgical residency at Mayo and fellowship at Cleveland Clinic. It can be done but she'll tell you its a very tough road. She also mentioned that during 3rd and 4th year rotations in NYC they rotated with students from some of the NY schools and were given a really hard time. They had to wear different colored name tags so everone knew they were FMG's and were treated very differently by the attendings.

She had the same choice, and went for the MD b/c everyone in her family was an MD. I really felt at home on the Nova campus, the letters behind my name don't matter to me (but being a US grad does), Nova's got great rotations, and a curriculum that I felt played to my strenths. Best of luck with you decision!

 

[GATORANALYST]

hahaha disregarding your previous post... GO GATORS!!!

Go Gators!!!
Just to help you out. I went to Nova for a year and left. The credentials follow you for the rest of your life and if anyone tells you differently there in denial or they just are not out practicing in residency or working as an Attending. I decided to go to SGU and loved it. I just graduated last weekend and am starting my residency in July. I have friends in my class that matched in all kinds of specialties (Urology, surgery, medicine, obgyn, PMR, Optho)

There are residencies out there that will not interview you if you come from a DO program. I know I know it is the same thing as an MD and you can do the same thing but it is what it is. I posted this to help you out because your a gator and I went to NOVA. My intention was not to start up some DO vs MD war.

I hope no one is insulted but I was naive at one time and I stayed in the US thinking I would be a US medical student but the fact of the matter is that DO students are still considered independent medical applicant when you apply for the match (just like a foreign medical grad). If you dont believe me look it up on the NRMP website under the stats link. I actually walked around thinking I was "A US grad" like so many DO students do. They right in that they are studying on US soil but on paper they are no different from A FMG and just as competitive as one. You also may have to do the mandatory year of the osteopathic internship which is totally lame!!

hope it this helps and Go Gators!!!!😀

 

[JaggerPlate]

Go Gators!!!
Just to help you out. I went to Nova for a year and left. The credentials follow you for the rest of your life and if anyone tells you differently there in denial or they just are not out practicing in residency or working as an Attending. I decided to go to SGU and loved it. I just graduated last weekend and am starting my residency in July. I have friends in my class that matched in all kinds of specialties (Urology, surgery, medicine, obgyn, PMR, Optho)

There are residencies out there that will not interview you if you come from a DO program. I know I know it is the same thing as an MD and you can do the same thing but it is what it is. I posted this to help you out because your a gator and I went to NOVA. My intention was not to start up some DO vs MD war.

I hope no one is insulted but I was naive at one time and I stayed in the US thinking I would be a US medical student but the fact of the matter is that DO students are still considered independent medical applicant when you apply for the match (just like a foreign medical grad). If you dont believe me look it up on the NRMP website under the stats link. I actually walked around thinking I was "A US grad" like so many DO students do. They right in that they are studying on US soil but on paper they are no different from A FMG and just as competitive as one. You also may have to do the mandatory year of the osteopathic internship which is totally lame!!

hope it this helps and Go Gators!!!!😀

you're silly.

Statistics show that FMGs have much harder time matching, and generally rank much lower than DOs come match time. Your credentials may follow you around your whole life, but so does your specialty. If you don't end up getting what you want because you struggled as an FMG ... I don't think that MD from the Caribbean will keep you warm at night. I always hear people discussing their FMG classmates matching competitive all over, but at the same time I see the surgery boards lit up with Carib grads who couldn't match into surgery and how this was the worst year for FMGs in surg (a trend that is expanding into all fields as US-including DOs 🙄-admissions continue to rise). I'm glad you feel good about your choice, but there really isn't any argument that more opportunities are given to you as a DO.

 

[ShyRem]

gator, you are sadly misinformed.

Bottom line:
1. you will always find folks who think DO is lame.
2. you will always find folks who think FMG is lame.
3. pretty much everyone will agree that caribbean school = FMG.
4. your patients won't care.
5. there are residencies who won't interview DOs (but if you find out that's the reason, you can sue).
6. there are residencies who won't interview FMGs.
7. osteopathic internship year isn't required for all specialties - in fact just for a few and also if you're planning on working in one of five states that require it. This lack of the traditional rotating internship is a new development.

OP, make an informed decision. Do your research and don't believe everything you hear. Yes, that includes me. I would encourage you to look into the internship change. And I encourage you to look at residency programs online and see where their residents come from.

Look at the match lists for both caribbean and DO schools, but be aware that not everyone wants derm. If a bunch of a graduating class wants FP, then the match list will be heavy in FP. If a bunch of a graduating class wants anesthesia, then the list will look fabulous to the uninformed who think that if a school can match everyone into anesthesia it's a great school. Residency choice also isn't about the "best" program - it's more often about location. Yes, there will always be those in med school who just apply to the "best" programs (whatever their criteria happen to be to decide what's "best"). But more often than not, it's about location, location, location.

Do your research, question what folks tell you, and make a decision you're happy with.

 

[gasapple]

 

[JoeNamaMD]

I'm trying to make the decision of whether to attend SGU (Grenada) or Nova. My deposit for St. George's in due on Feb. 15th, so I need to make a decision soon. If you could offer any advice or personal insight, I would greatly appreciate it.

Here's the deal:

Nova is four hours from home and would be very convenient. I love the campus and I'm indifferent about the whole MD/DO thing. However, I thing it would be an incredibly enriching experience to live outside the U.S. for two years... the antithesis of convenience.

The SGU campus is beautiful and I have always wanted to live in NYC, where SGU has many clinical rotation sites. Currently, it seems that SGU will cost ~10K > Nova during the course of all four years (this number includes $1000 for airfare for each year at SGU). Can anyone tell me if this seems accurate? Although they're both expensive schools, I expected the costs of attending SGU to be significantly higher.

I'm currently leaning towards NOVA because it seems like the obvious choice, but I'm tempted to pull a Robert Frost and take the road less traveled...

But do you think living in Grenada will be a decision I'll later regret? Possibly no longer viewing it as enriching experience, but just a huge pain in the a**? And also the source of a ridiculous amount of debt too? Yet either way I guess I'll be in the hole financially.

Anyhow, this ambivalence is killing me. PLEASE offer any help that you can.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Grenada is a third world country with a fairly high crime rate, its not going to be time in Paradise. Especially on a student budget. The NYC hospitals that SGU has are mostly community based programs. You will be better off going to Nova rather than a foreign school.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Any time you live in a third-world country, the chances are much higher that you will be killed by Force Recon Marines and/or Navy SEALs. You could also find yourself on the waterboard, if you are mistaken for a drug dealer or a terrorist, and almost everybody in Grenada is a drug dealer, so the chances of this are pretty high. I have a buddy at SGU, and he gets waterboarded on a regular basis.

 

[gasapple]

you're silly.

Statistics show that FMGs have much harder time matching, and generally rank much lower than DOs come match time. Your credentials may follow you around your whole life, but so does your specialty. If you don't end up getting what you want because you struggled as an FMG ... I don't think that MD from the Caribbean will keep you warm at night. I always hear people discussing their FMG classmates matching competitive all over, but at the same time I see the surgery boards lit up with Carib grads who couldn't match into surgery and how this was the worst year for FMGs in surg (a trend that is expanding into all fields as US-including DOs 🙄-admissions continue to rise). I'm glad you feel good about your choice, but there really isn't any argument that more opportunities are given to you as a DO.

Aside from being accurate, Jagger, your post uncharacteristically exhibits restraint and civility rising up to meet obvious ignorance. I, for one, am truly...



BORED. Spice it back up, man!, I say. 👍

 

[gasapple]

the chances are much higher that you will be killed by Force Recon Marines and/or Navy SEALs

or eaten by an alligator on the way to class - wait, Joe said SALTWATER CROC; evidently, he's done some research on Caribbean schools.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I went to Nova for a year and left.

I was kicked out of nova after a year.

The credentials follow you for the rest of your life and if anyone tells you differently there in denial or they just are not out practicing in residency or working as an Attending.

Wish I could get that fat F off of my permanent transcript.

I decided to go to SGU and loved it.

My only option was the carribean. Make lemonade out of lemons.

I just graduated last weekend and am starting my residency in July. I have friends in my class that matched in all kinds of specialties (Urology, surgery, medicine, obgyn, PMR, Optho)

I graduated. I did not match into Uro, surg, med, OBGYN, PMR or ophtho. I heard stories about people who did.

There are residencies out there that will not interview you if you come from a DO program. I know I know it is the same thing as an MD and you can do the same thing but it is what it is. I posted this to help you out because your a gator and I went to NOVA. My intention was not to start up some DO vs MD war.

Despite being a native speaker, my grammar is terrible.

 

[umean2tellme]

I was kicked out of nova after a year.



Wish I could get that fat F off of my permanent transcript.




My only option was the carribean. Make lemonade out of lemons.




I graduated. I did not match into Uro, surg, med, OBGYN, PMR or ophtho. I heard stories about people who did.




Despite being a native speaker, my grammar is terrible.

THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT ANALYSIS!👍👍

 

[JaggerPlate]

Despite being a native speaker, my grammar is terrible.

Hilarious. One of the few times I have 'laughed out loud' at SDN. And Gasapple ... I realize I am off, exams are killing me, no time for anything. I will be back on my A game soon.

 

[justletmeinplz]

I was accepted to SGU for Fall 2007, but after exploring other options I decided not to go. Instead, I chose to add DO schools to my list of consideration for the 2008 application cycle. I applied to Nova and was granted an interview. After visiting the campus for my interview, I decided that's where I wanted to go and I didn't even bother turning in secondaries to any other schools. (Wouldn't recommend doing that.) I believe I'll get a better education at Nova (if the dean is any indication, I KNOW I will receive an excellent education) and I won't have to deal with the inconvenience of moving to Grenada. I'd say you wouldn't regret going to SGU if it was your only option to become a doctor, but you would regret it if you could achieve the same goal and stay in the States.

Go Gators!!!

 

[Orthodoc40]

OP is long gone.....

 

[justletmeinplz]

Oh well, maybe when people actually figure out how to use the "search" function the recent posts will be useful.

 

[UFpharmDO]

Justletmeinplz, Go Gators, I am excited to know that some Gator nation will be going with me to NSU, any idea on how many others there are?

 

[justletmeinplz]

Justletmeinplz, Go Gators, I am excited to know that some Gator nation will be going with me to NSU, any idea on how many others there are?

Not sure exactly, but my guess is we're pretty well represented down there.

 

[igcgnerd]

I was accepted to SGU for Fall 2007, but after exploring other options I decided not to go. Instead, I chose to add DO schools to my list of consideration for the 2008 application cycle. I applied to Nova and was granted an interview. After visiting the campus for my interview, I decided that's where I wanted to go and I didn't even bother turning in secondaries to any other schools. (Wouldn't recommend doing that.) I believe I'll get a better education at Nova (if the dean is any indication, I KNOW I will receive an excellent education) and I won't have to deal with the inconvenience of moving to Grenada. I'd say you wouldn't regret going to SGU if it was your only option to become a doctor, but you would regret it if you could achieve the same goal and stay in the States.

Go Gators!!!

Took the words out of my mouth. Despite what people say about DO residencies, many of them are quite good programs. When you keep this in mind, their match lists are very comparable. Either way, you will be a doctor and be able to practice medicine. The only difference I see is whether you want to spend the next four years in Grenada or Florida. Personally I'd rather live in Florida and go to the occasional gators game.