Shadowing- encouragement needed

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

kypdurron5

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
1
Ahhh! I was rejected from medical school last year with the tag line "get some hands-on clinical experience and reapply." That would be great but the problem is that I don't personally know any doctors to shadow, and volunteer programs have been incredibly unhelpful. Thus, I am down to randomly calling offices and asking if I can shadow. Trouble is, I'm a little timid. I hate calling someone cold-turkey and essentially asking for a favor, yet I know I have no choice! I promised myself I would do it on Monday, then Tuesday, and now it's Wednesday and I just can't bring myself to do it! Can anyone offer some encouragement? Perhaps some specific dialog to open with? Here's my rough-draft conversation opener:
"Hello, my name is xx and I'm a pre-med major at xx. I'm about to graduate and I'm working on applying to medical school and so I'm looking for a doctor who would be willing to let me shadow him/her and I was wondering if you could help me out?"
I assume I'll be talking to a nurse so I really would need them to serve as an intermediate, no? Or should I ask for a time to actually talk to one of the doctors? Speaking of time, what do you think would be the best time to call, early morning (7 or 8), mid-morning (9-11), or afternoon (1-5)? Advice from someone who has already done this would be greatly appreciated.
Also, on the practical side, what should I wear? Should I assume that I should wear scrubs, shirt/tie, or should I just ask when I make contact (assuming I work up the courage first)?

Members don't see this ad.
 
IMHO..."getting hands on" doesn't imply shadowing. What you really need to do is become an EMT, ER Tech, etc... Shadowing is great and all...but its not that impressive when it comes to the application process. When I applied to med school back in 2001 I was an EMT B and had worked as an ER tech...and I can honestly tell you it looked better (much better) than my competitors who had just shadowing experience.

But...if you must get some shadowing time....i'd just do what you already said. You likely end up talking to a nurse or secretary and he/she will set up a date. Don't bother asking for the Dr...he/she is busy.

As far as what to wear...i'd recommend shirt and tie...unless they tell you otherwise.

good luck
rotatores
Clemson 2002
USUHS 2006

Rotatores, M.D. in 17 days and counting...
 
Yeah but getting clinical experience like EMT/etc isn't worth the time and effort for less than year.

I know you hate to do it but you MUST! I would actually suggest going to their offices maybe around lunch or a little before then. Its easier to get ahold of them. If you have local med schools, call around and see if you can find some drs the med school might recommend.

:luck: and GET CRACKIN!!!!! next app cycle is SOOON!

PS ... does volunteer office know of any docs at the hospital you can shadow?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
kypdurron5 said:
Ahhh! I was rejected from medical school last year with the tag line "get some hands-on clinical experience and reapply." That would be great but the problem is that I don't personally know any doctors to shadow, and volunteer programs have been incredibly unhelpful. Thus, I am down to randomly calling offices and asking if I can shadow. Trouble is, I'm a little timid. I hate calling someone cold-turkey and essentially asking for a favor, yet I know I have no choice! I promised myself I would do it on Monday, then Tuesday, and now it's Wednesday and I just can't bring myself to do it! Can anyone offer some encouragement? Perhaps some specific dialog to open with? Here's my rough-draft conversation opener:
"Hello, my name is xx and I'm a pre-med major at xx. I'm about to graduate and I'm working on applying to medical school and so I'm looking for a doctor who would be willing to let me shadow him/her and I was wondering if you could help me out?"
I assume I'll be talking to a nurse so I really would need them to serve as an intermediate, no? Or should I ask for a time to actually talk to one of the doctors? Speaking of time, what do you think would be the best time to call, early morning (7 or 8), mid-morning (9-11), or afternoon (1-5)? Advice from someone who has already done this would be greatly appreciated.
Also, on the practical side, what should I wear? Should I assume that I should wear scrubs, shirt/tie, or should I just ask when I make contact (assuming I work up the courage first)?

the doc or his staff will usually tell u what 2 wear - and u should def ask. some places i was told 2 wear scrubs, others it was business casual (dress nice sorta thing) and once i even had 2 bring my labcoat b/c 1st med students also precepted at this clinic and they wore their white coats and they didn't want me 2 appear 2 b 2 diff from them and have 2 explain my presence. so never assume about the dress code, which may also depend on what the doc does, ie whether he's a surgeon or say a family med doc may determine whether its scrubs or business casual. and they don't really look at allowing u 2 shadow as a 'favor'...they're usually glad 2 do it b/c they remember being premeds (of course some docs r more likely 2 let u and others r 2 busy or don't want 2 b bothered, but don't let those types get u down)

i think ur rough draft of what 2 say is good but add some more enthusiasm - a personal aspect - about how u're possibly interested in xx specialty (ie the doc's specialty) and wanted some exposure 2 c the ins/outs of working in xx, 2 observe the team interaction necessary 4 xx, and to reaffirm ur interest in xx, etc. u'd b surprised what u find out while observing/shadowing that u didn't know b4 or assumed incorrectly so go in with an open mind - i find being 2 opinionated or having 2 many assumptions may keep ppl from really learning and enjoying an experience. shadowing is a great learning experience. i called up the local DO school b/c i wanted 2 shadow a doc who does OMT and they set me up with one of their faculty at his clinic; i also asked one of the residents i volunteered with if i could shadow him. i also looked up MD docs in the specialities i am interested in at the hospital attached 2 the univ where i do research 2 give the docs a call. alot of times they r totally up 2 letting u shadow and what's the worse they can say, no? u never know about anything unless u try and if they say no, just find someone else and ask until u find someone willing 2 let u shadow, i bet u won't have 2 ask 2 many ppl, u'll c. i would also say do some volunteering if u can. i've always had jobs since while i was in college and still found time 2 volunteer so work shouldn't b an excuse and that's how the adcoms will look at it if u have very little clinical exposure - volunteering, shadowing, or working in a doc's office (my friend who was a history major did only this and got into med school) - anything where u can say u observe docs at their work and really do understand what its all about. that its not just assumptions from what u think/idealize or heard others says, cuz that won't fly. u really need 2 spend a sig amount of time IN the clinical setting making ur OWN personal observations.

sometimes u'll talk 2 a nurse/staff initially and they'll pass on ur request and if the doc says ok, they'll be the ones calling u back with directions to the location/instructions, etc. don't feel like u absolutely have 2 talk with a doc b/c sometimes they r 2 busy at the moment u call 2 talk with u but the person who answers the phone will usually pass on the message. or u could try emailing the doc (i've done that and i got 2 shadow him) with ur request and c if he/she responds. it just requires some work on ur side looking up contact info and making the contact cuz no one is going to hold ur hand and make it easy 4 u, so u gotta get up the courage 2 do everything urself or it'll never get done.

oh also, u don't need an emt license necessarily. it takes about 6 months and the course is usually around $500 plus there's passing/paying 4 the national/state emt licensing exams (written and clinical skills). i have an emt-b license that is current but chose not 2 get an emt job 4 personal reasons. i have a heavy research background and chose another research position and thought that i could volunteer emt but apparently, in my locale, i can't do that, they're all unionized. anyways, i also know that a specific adcom at upenn i spoke with said that 4 her, emt experiences does NOT raise a candidate in her eyes b/c alot of ppl do it 2 get into med school, that is unless, they had some sig experience they could talk about that added 2 their desire/knowledge of being a doctor. like when i mentioned 2 her and another non-adcom doc (who wrote my rec) that i have an EMT license and training, they both said that my 'EMT license really didn't mean much 2 them'. now, this doesn't mean that if u want 2 get one that its a waste of time, but only do it if u really want 2 cuz it doesn't *necessarily* give u a leg up (and costs alot of money/time) depending on what the adcoms feels at the schools u r applying 2. i listed my emt-b license and some things about hands-on training/experiences in my apps and it was only brought up at 1 of my 3 interviews. they were more interested in some anecdotes about my personal experiences in the clinical setting and didn't care what my role was in that setting necessarily.

just get SOME direct clinical/patient contact experience where u can also observe the doc and his/her interactions with the rest of the health care team. adcoms r more interested in just knowing that u really understand what it is u want and r getting urself into by becoming a doc and whichever way u gain this experience is personal and not cookie cutter - it can b volunteering, shadowing, working in a doc's office, being an emt, whatever, the specific nature of the experience doesn't matter as much as having had the experience/exposure
 
rotatores said:
Ahh....gotta love the premed advice....
:confused: Uh, yeah. Pre-med advice. That's what this is.

It can take up to 6 months to get EMT license (depending on schedule and required hrs for state), and the OP's applying in 2 months. Sorry if I don't really see the sense in it. If they are interested in it, then great. But there are some other ways to get hands on clinical. That was my opinion.

I would say maybe CNA (if its relatively hassle free), shadowing, hospice, or free clinic volunteering.
 
mshheaddoc said:
:confused: Uh, yeah. Pre-med advice. That's what this is.

It can take up to 6 months to get EMT license (depending on schedule and required hrs for state), and the OP's applying in 2 months. Sorry if I don't really see the sense in it. If they are interested in it, then great. But there are some other ways to get hands on clinical. That was my opinion.

I would say maybe CNA (if its relatively hassle free), shadowing, hospice, or free clinic volunteering.

Thanks for the responses so far. I agree with you. I will consider EMT if I don't get in this coming year, but seeing as though the application cycle will open in about two months, it's a little late to go for EMT.
 
kypdurron5,

I know this is going to sound a little bit outlandish, but if you are living in a small community, perhaps you can place a message on the hospital bulliten or something like that. Just print out a little message and and tape it on the board.

The hospital administration might take it down or warn you not to do it, but it's a try. Perhaps you can ask them if it's ok.

You can write something like, "Desperate pre-med needs shadowing experience. Any help would be wonderful"


Or maybe you can find someone on SDN who lives in your area to help you out. Just keep asking around on SDN. Someone might live close to you who would be willing to let you shadow them.
 
kypdurron5 said:
Thanks for the responses so far. I agree with you. I will consider EMT if I don't get in this coming year, but seeing as though the application cycle will open in about two months, it's a little late to go for EMT.
Here are the links in TN though if you want them:

http://www.temsea.com/

http://www2.state.tn.us/health/ems/trainingfacilities.htm

So much for uneducated pre-meds ;)

Most of the classes from what I saw where one year with some accelerated one semester classes. Maybe you can find some private classes that might be full time in your area which might only take a month or so. :luck:
 
I've done this. Just bite the bullet and make the calls. It gets easier the more you do it. Your intro is too long. I was falling asleep halfway through. When the departmental sdecretary answers, just say:

"Hi. I'm so & so, I'm pre-med, and I'd like to shadow someone in the department. Who would you reccomend I talk to?"

5 seconds. And let the secretary the power to point you in the right direction. They know which doc's better with people 'lower on the totem pole' anyways. And believe me, they get enough calls like your's that you don't need to tell them any more than you're pre-med.
 
RxnMan said:
I've done this. Just bite the bullet and make the calls. It gets easier the more you do it. Your intro is too long. I was falling asleep halfway through. When the departmental sdecretary answers, just say:

"Hi. I'm so & so, I'm pre-med, and I'd like to shadow someone in the department. Who would you reccomend I talk to?"

5 seconds. And let the secretary the power to point you in the right direction. They know which doc's better with people 'lower on the totem pole' anyways. And believe me, they get enough calls like your's that you don't need to tell them any more than you're pre-med.

Do you think my best bet would be calling departments w/in a hospital, or targeting family practice's? There's a family practice with 3 or 4 doctors near where I live that I was going to try first....One of them even graduated from one of the schools I'm thinking about.
 
I say skip the phone call and go in person. It worked for me, and now I am working as CNA without having to go through the training. You gotta be confident about yourself and not be so timid. You have to be able to talk with people, you do want to become a doctor don't you? Well, doesn't that mean that your everday job will consist with talking and interacting with people all the time. :idea:
 
kypdurron5 said:
Do you think my best bet would be calling departments w/in a hospital, or targeting family practice's? There's a family practice with 3 or 4 doctors near where I live that I was going to try first....One of them even graduated from one of the schools I'm thinking about.

Hospitals in NYC are highly regulated and they'll just refer you to the volunteering department (which is no help at all), so i would say call private practices if you start feeling like you're getting the run around. I don't know about TN, but thought i would share my experience.
If anyone knows how/where in the city to look for shadowing opportunities let me know because everyone here isn't nearly as receptive as people on SDN make their experiences in their locations out to be.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
vkhalsa said:
Hospitals in NYC are highly regulated and they'll just refer you to the volunteering department (which is no help at all), so i would say call private practices if you start feeling like you're getting the run around. I don't know about TN, but thought i would share my experience.
If anyone knows how/where in the city to look for shadowing opportunities let me know because everyone here isn't nearly as receptive as people on SDN make their experiences in their locations out to be.

Lol, the funny thing is I've done telephone customer service for 3 years, and now I'm too afraid to make a single telephone call! >) As it's now 1AM and thus Wednesday, I'm going to do everything I can to push myself into calling today. I expect I'll need to go in person before they're ready to commit to allowing me to shadow, but I'll call as the first step. My trouble is that I'm spending the month of June in Paris, that means I only have the months of May and July before I'll probably be interviewing again. I didn't do this earlier due to re-taking the MCAT, but now I know I'm cutting it really close at it is. Oh well, what can a pre-med do?! >).
 
Lol, the funny thing is I've done telephone customer service for 3 years, and now I'm too afraid to make a single telephone call! >) As it's now 1AM and thus Wednesday, I'm going to do everything I can to push myself into calling today. I expect I'll need to go in person before they're ready to commit to allowing me to shadow, but I'll call as the first step. My trouble is that I'm spending the month of June in Paris, that means I only have the months of May and July before I'll probably be interviewing again. I didn't do this earlier due to re-taking the MCAT, but now I know I'm cutting it really close at it is. Oh well, what can a pre-med do?! >).

Umm....do you honestly think that a few hours of shadowing will change an interviewer's view of your "hands on experience". I know you only have a few more months before you reapply...but shouldn't you have already been on top of this. I'm sorry to sound like an a$$...but if you can't pick up a phone and call a physician's office and ask to shadow...maybe medicine isn't the right field for you. Trust me...you'll be asked to do a lot more during medical school and beyond.

rotatores
Clemson 2002
USUHS 2006
 
here's what I did...dislocate your shoulder and ask the ER Doc. Worked for me...
 
rotatores said:
Umm....do you honestly think that a few hours of shadowing will change an interviewer's view of your "hands on experience". I know you only have a few more months before you reapply...but shouldn't you have already been on top of this. I'm sorry to sound like an a$$...but if you can't pick up a phone and call a physician's office and ask to shadow...maybe medicine isn't the right field for you. Trust me...you'll be asked to do a lot more during medical school and beyond.

rotatores
Clemson 2002
USUHS 2006

Lol, I knew someone would say that. First I'll address the relevant portion of your post which brings up a good point. Yes, I should have been on top of this. In fact, I quit my job (a VERY good job) at end end of my senior summer in order to concentrate on just doing shadow or volunteer stuff. Problem was, it took me two months to get into the volunteer program at a local hospital. By the time I was fully checked out and started volunteering...I had my (most important) medical school interview the following week! That is, the week before Christmas. So obviously I didn't do any volunteering the week of Christmas and that lead directly into the beginning of the following semester. I still planned on volunteering but my rejection came shortly thereafter, and I decided as a result to retake the MCAT. I didn't feel that with only two or three months before the MCAT and 18 hours worth of classes that I could do shadowing on top of that. Thus, I just retook the MCAT (feel very good about it BTW) and now I'm ready to concentrate on this again. I realize some people have managed 18 credit hours of classes, 20 hours part-time job, and shadowing, but I only found time for the former two my first three years of college.

Now, onto the....less relevant portion of your post. To suggest that if someone does not conform to your idea of exactly what kind of personality a doctor should have that they should not be a doctor....well, that is simply ludicrous and rather insulting. Forgive me for overreacting here, but you are arrogant to assert that medicine is not for me because I have a more timid personality than others. Perhaps it is what will make me a great doctor in a particular speciality, or perhaps it is something I will overcome. Regardless I am offended at your suggestion that medicine is not for me because I don't fall within your acceptable personality guidelines. Whether or not medicine is right for someone is for them to decide, not for you to go around questioning.
 
i don't why people can't just answer the question that someone asks. they always have to give their personal feelings of why someone's a douchebag for asking something.
 
rotatores said:
Umm....do you honestly think that a few hours of shadowing will change an interviewer's view of your "hands on experience". I know you only have a few more months before you reapply...but shouldn't you have already been on top of this. I'm sorry to sound like an a$$...but if you can't pick up a phone and call a physician's office and ask to shadow...maybe medicine isn't the right field for you. Trust me...you'll be asked to do a lot more during medical school and beyond.

rotatores
Clemson 2002
USUHS 2006

Dude, you are being an ass. Not everybody has the same excellent social skills that you do <sarcasm off>. Maybe the OP wants to get into academic medicine at a more research-y school? Maybe you could explain what cold-calling doctors has to do with your medical school curriculum.

OP: This guy does have a point, though -- just pick up the phone and call. You'll probably find lots that aren't interested, but you WILL find someone who is. Those of us that are shadowing (I just set up a shadowing gig through a co-worker who has a doctor in the family) aren't making it up. There ARE doctors that don't mind if pre-med students shadow them. Ignore this guy, take the good advice that everybody else is giving you, and you WILL find one, probably soon.
 
kypdurron5 said:
Do you think my best bet would be calling departments w/in a hospital, or targeting family practice's? There's a family practice with 3 or 4 doctors near where I live that I was going to try first....One of them even graduated from one of the schools I'm thinking about.
I'd try both. You're cold-calling them, so your success rate will be low. Why limit yourself? Furthermore, FP's have as much to teach you as a specialist in a hospital, so see everything you can.
 
Now, onto the....less relevant portion of your post. To suggest that if someone does not conform to your idea of exactly what kind of personality a doctor should have that they should not be a doctor....well, that is simply ludicrous and rather insulting. Forgive me for overreacting here, but you are arrogant to assert that medicine is not for me because I have a more timid personality than others. Perhaps it is what will make me a great doctor in a particular speciality, or perhaps it is something I will overcome. Regardless I am offended at your suggestion that medicine is not for me because I don't fall within your acceptable personality guidelines. Whether or not medicine is right for someone is for them to decide, not for you to go around questioning.

You're right...I have no idea what makes a good doctor. ;) Maybe I am being an a$$...but sometimes it takes one to kick some confidence in you.

You being timid has nothing to do with whether or not you'll become a good doctor...but med school and residency beyond we'll be extremely difficult for you if you continue to carry on this way (especially third and 4th year). And I'm only being an a$$ because I was you 8 years ago...and trust me...its no fun...and you WILL outgrow it. But sooner than later the better...so why not start now.

Again...sorry if i offended anyone.

You'll have to forgive rotatores. He went to Clemson and they only teach agricultural sciences there.

...and we only ride tractors to school too...right? ;)
 
rotatores said:
You being timid has nothing to do with whether or not you'll become a good doctor...but med school and residency beyond we'll be extremely difficult for you if you continue to carry on this way (especially third and 4th year).

Well, it's a good thing I enjoy difficult experiences then >). If your hard-nosed approach was a genuine attempt at motivation, then I appreciate your concern.
 
Sartre79 said:
here's what I did...dislocate your shoulder and ask the ER Doc. Worked for me...

I had plastic surgery and asked my surgeon...worked for me too! Not to mention, she offered to hook me up with another doc as well. :D
 
Top