Shopping for new C-arm. Suggestions?

[gdub25]

2-3k a year is great too if that’s what you’re paying. Siemens is 10k per year, GE is 7k per team from a local place which is the cheapest I’ve found.

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[pastafan]

My Phillips contract cost me 9k/yr for same day service. 2-3k is a steal.

 

[RoloTomassi]

Interested in Scan-C review as well please.

Any opinions on pros/cons Philips BV Pulsera vs GE 9800/9900? Thanks.

 

[gdub25]

Scan-C, here’s what I’ve learned:

It’s only been in the US a couple of years. The manufacturer actually produces X-ray tubes for most X-ray and many fluoro companies across the globe and got into the c-arm space because they saw an opportunity to compete in the entry level price range. They state many of the higher priced machines from other companies use their tubes but they legally can’t disclose what machines those are.

Spec wise it is very compatible with the OEC 9800. I saw the machine in actual use in a cadaver lab along side the Phillips, GE, and Zeihm. Image quality was indistinguishable between the 4. None of the cadavers were especially large but shooting lateral through the cervical spine gave a good test on how they all performed. The Scan-C was lightweight and slightly smaller than the others. The arm glide was very smooth, easy to rotate, etc. All the image functions and machine settings are on a digital touchpad. The touchpad was really responsive, no lag, easy to read and laid out well. It comes standard with vascular digital subtraction, laser guide, linear and circular columnation, battery backup, and video output. It stores up to 5 million images on the onboard hard drive. USB output is there for transferring files to the EMR.

I talked with two other doctors who have this machine in their practice. Both were really happy with them and didn’t have any complaints. I will probably get a couple of these. If anyone else is interested in purchasing I think we can get them down on the price a lot the more we buy. Let me know.

 

[RoloTomassi]

Scan-C, here’s what I’ve learned:

It’s only been in the US a couple of years. The manufacturer actually produces X-ray tubes for most X-ray and many fluoro companies across the globe and got into the c-arm space because they saw an opportunity to compete in the entry level price range. They state many of the higher priced machines from other companies use their tubes but they legally can’t disclose what machines those are.

Spec wise it is very compatible with the OEC 9800. I saw the machine in actual use in a cadaver lab along side the Phillips, GE, and Zeihm. Image quality was indistinguishable between the 4. None of the cadavers were especially large but shooting lateral through the cervical spine gave a good test on how they all performed. The Scan-C was lightweight and slightly smaller than the others. The arm glide was very smooth, easy to rotate, etc. All the image functions and machine settings are on a digital touchpad. The touchpad was really responsive, no lag, easy to read and laid out well. It comes standard with vascular digital subtraction, laser guide, linear and circular columnation, battery backup, and video output. It stores up to 5 million images on the onboard hard drive. USB output is there for transferring files to the EMR.

I talked with two other doctors who have this machine in their practice. Both were really happy with them and didn’t have any complaints. I will probably get a couple of these. If anyone else is interested in purchasing I think we can get them down on the price a lot the more we buy. Let me know.

Thanks for info. What price did you get it down to? Still 65k and 5 year warranty covers everything, no service agreement needed for that period? If so, is there service agreement price for after 5y?

 

[gdub25]

Correct, 5 year warranty covers all parts, have to pay day rate for repairs, they say one day repair guarantee, price quote was 65k but I am confident they’ll come down with more units purchased. I’m already buying two. I’ll ask about service after the 5 years.

 

[Crybaby]

This sounds very enticing- did you just trial it during the lab or have you gotten to demo in real life yet? I would love to hear how this works on extra large folks.

 

[gdub25]

Just used it during the lab. Still waiting to hear back on the service costs after the 5 years.

 

[gdub25]

Ok, I’ve gotten all the details, have a really competitive price with warranty perks, happy to pass along to anyone looking to purchase. PM me for details.

 

[pmrmd]

I’m getting two new GEs. Promotion for new Elite II (non-flat screen) with DSA for 130k. Trading in two 9900s.

 

[soccrwz]

Looking to buy a pair of GE One carms. Pretty reasonable single unit, static tube, around 50k . Looks like the original Zhiems. Anybody have experience with these machines? Can you image 350lbs chunksters, resolution? Any info is appreciated…

I liked mine a lot

 

[NJPAIN]

Opinions on the new flat panel Siemens?
They had a demo at our ASC. Image quality quite good. Sticking point for me is that no way to get 50 degree CLO without bringing the image source above the table. No OEC type J arm or super C and CLO limited to 42 degrees. I think the other two pain docs are going to push for the Siemens based on image quality because neither of them ever uses CLO; in fact, they almost never get a lateral.

 

[gdub25]

How do you justify spending 130k on a c arm? I’m spending less than that on two. Just wondering if there’s something I’m missing? We’ve only ever used the less expensive models.

 

[pmrmd]

Invest in yourself. It will always help you. And I’m spending my money before Senile Joe takes it.

 

[myrandom2003]

Have you checked out Genoray? Korean company, also with 5 year all parts warranty and it’s a flat panel digital detector.

 

[Agast]

Ok, I’ve gotten all the details, have a really competitive price with warranty perks, happy to pass along to anyone looking to purchase. PM me for details.

I'm really marinating on getting a C arm and a procedure room. How do you make a big purchase like this? Monthly payments?

 

[callmeanesthesia]

I'm really marinating on getting a C arm and a procedure room. How do you make a big purchase like this? Monthly payments?

For us the practice bought it as a capital expense and we allocated the cost as a depreciation expense over 5 years.

 

[geauxg8rs]

I'm really marinating on getting a C arm and a procedure room. How do you make a big purchase like this? Monthly payments?

I bought a used 9800 and got a loan from a bank.it was a three year payback. Now own it outright for past three years.
you can also buy new, or do a lease purchase

 

[gdub25]

We’ve always just bought outright and depreciated over the first year of ownership for taxes.

 

[Agast]

We’ve always just bought outright and depreciated over the first year of ownership for taxes.

The problem is I’m technically a W2 employee and I would be the only one using it, so I don’t think I can depreciate it through the practice.

 

[10KHertz]

GE is just so over priced for private practice. They always brag about their hospital market share. So I end up buying Philips .

 

[callmeanesthesia]

The problem is I’m technically a W2 employee and I would be the only one using it, so I don’t think I can depreciate it through the practice.

I’m also on a W2 but for things that only one or two partners use we allocate the depreciation expense to those partners to pay the practice back, since on the books there is, for example, an $80,000 cash outlay balanced by an $80,000 asset acquisition resulting in no net gain or loss of value for the corporation. (At least, I think that’s how it works. I don’t deal with the nitty gritty of the accounting directly).

 

[myrandom2003]

GE is just so over priced for private practice. They always brag about their hospital market share. So I end up buying Philips .

They charge $69k with 1 year warranty for a 9800 with the flat panels.

Anyone get a better deal for a GE through GE?

 

[gdub25]

That’s an old and used GE. New are the 9900 which are well over 100k or they have the GE One which is entry level and 70k.

 

[rhizotummy]

Have you checked out Genoray? Korean company, also with 5 year all parts warranty and it’s a flat panel digital detector.

Stay AWAY

I would not recommend them - learn from my mistake. Bought a brand new C-arm. It has broken down 4+ times in 9 months of use.

2-3 months into service, the small monitor panel would turn off and stop working. Machine was down for 1-2 days. Most recently, the C-arm was giving an intermittent error and completely stopped taking pictures. We had to reboot multiple times to get it to work. They would not dispatch a service tech because the error was "intermittent". I specifically asked them to send one, and they refused. Next week, it stops working completely with the SAME error at 4:45pm before our anesthesia procedure day. My nightmare. All of our staff sat on their hands all day. Had to cancel everything the night before.

The little monitor panel turns off randomly - they can't figure out why. The company refuses to exchange it for a different machine because the errors are intermittent. I've literally begged them. Never Again.

 

[pmrmd]

Get the best equipment you can to help you be the best physician you can. Fluoro is the foundation of our work. It’s the last thing I would get on the cheap.

 

[myrandom2003]

That’s an old and used GE. New are the 9900 which are well over 100k or they have the GE One which is entry level and 70k.

Did you end up getting the scan-c or did you get something else? How has your experience been?

 

[Crybaby]

So did the online "demo" with the reps for Skan-c. It really looks like a great unit. Low radiation leakage, remote diagnostics, and 5 year warranty seem great. Is this too good to be true?
quoted about 70k with delivery and set up. A bit higher than what they quoted Gdub. Hinted if more in the area were bought that maybe price would be reduced.

 

[plasma.]

Get the best equipment you can to help you be the best physician you can. Fluoro is the foundation of our work. It’s the last thing I would get on the cheap.

Pmrmd: Any specific brands and models you recommend? Your top 3 if you had to buy one today? Thank you!

 

[pmrmd]

Pmrmd: Any specific brands and models you recommend? Your top 3 if you had to buy one today? Thank you!

I’m an OEC guy.
1. Elite II
2. Certified 9900
3. Elite CFD if I hit the lottery

 

[plasma.]

I’m an OEC guy.
1. Elite II
2. Certified 9900
3. Elite CFD if I hit the lottery

Amazing, thanks, will look into these!

 

[pmrmd]

I have a 9900 that has been sitting for a while in storage that I'm looking to sell. Very low hours, I mean very low. $60k. It was under service contract before it went into storage in 2017/18 and has been sitting ever since.

 

[RoloTomassi]

I have a 9900 that has been sitting for a while in storage that I'm looking to sell. Very low hours, I mean very low. $60k. It was under service contract before it went into storage in 2017/18 and has been sitting ever since.

Is it super c?

 

[pmrmd]

Is it super c?

Yes

 

[plasma.]

Yes

Do you ship beyond the wall (north)? haha

 

[Nodolor]

Do you ship beyond the wall (north)? haha

Might shop around and get a warranty....Phillips machines are solid as well and typically less than OECs

 

[plasma.]

Might shop around and get a warranty....Phillips machines are solid as well and typically less than OECs

Thanks Nodolor! I'll look into those as well. I have no experience with C arms. Could you recommend a couple specific Phillips models?

 

[plasma.]

Also, any one able to shed any light on how images are saved in private practice? Do you upload them to the patient's chart in the EMR after the block? Or just keep them in the C arm's storage? Are certain C arms better for this than others?

 

[Nodolor]

Thanks Nodolor! I'll look into those as well. I have no experience with C arms. Could you recommend a couple specific Phillips models?

https://www.surgicalcarms.com/product/philips-bv-pulsera-c-arm/?matchtype=b&network=g&device=c&keyword=&campaign=9551830007&adgroup=103730471891&gclid=CjwKCAjwmqKJBhAWEiwAMvGt6AmEPks-gXaFpIJ4NENqO7jqzKWq5IHbKWQz43Fz-QlBIQcK5mVDYxoCQvcQAvD_BwE

 

[pmrmd]

Also, any one able to shed any light on how images are saved in private practice? Do you upload them to the patient's chart in the EMR after the block? Or just keep them in the C arm's storage? Are certain C arms better for this than others?

Depends on the software. I take a picture of my screen and email to myself, download, and attach the image to the procedure note. Sounds like it’s cumbersome but really takes 5-10 seconds and I’m not dealing with a PACS and all of that.

 

[BobBarker]

That certainly takes more than 5-10s and is something you should have your staff doing for you.

 

[Nodolor]

Also, any one able to shed any light on how images are saved in private practice? Do you upload them to the patient's chart in the EMR after the block? Or just keep them in the C arm's storage? Are certain C arms better for this than others?

Staff downloads to zip drive then to pts chart at end of day, pretty easy

 

[plasma.]

Guys need some help
OEC One (New) ~$80KUSD
OEC 9900 (Refurbished) ~$100k USD

One year warranty on both

Patient population will mostly be BMI <40

 

[Doctodd]

Guys need some help
OEC One (New) ~$80KUSD
OEC 9900 (Refurbished) ~$100k USD

One year warranty on both

Patient population will mostly be BMI <40

The refurbished should be much less….but supply chain issues and inflation are affecting the prices of everything right now.

 

[plasma.]

The refurbished should be much less….but supply chain issues and inflation are affecting the prices of everything right now.

I see. I'm in Canada so that will affect the price as well I think.

Any experience with the OEC One? I'm leaning toward that because its new and has a small footprint.

 

[NJPAIN]

Make certain you pay careful attention to stationary vs rotating anode as well as maximum generator output. Small footprint and price are nice but the OEC One is not a 9900.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

If anyone wants a Philips BV 300 that is not working let me know. Probably easy to fix or at least for parts. I'm thinking of giving it away for free if you pay for the shipping. PM me.

 

[CB1Antagonist]

Crybaby, we are about to pull the trigger on one, maybe two more c arms. I found this one that we can get a great deal on, around 65k brand new and comes with 5 year warranty. They also guarantee 24 hour on-site service in our area. I know they will do a discount if we buy more than one. Our group has bought 4 new Siemens Selects in the past 3 years, all were 55k but only 1 year warranty. Service contract on those are 10k per year, each so we are looking to go another directio

Anyone seen or used one of these SkanC c-arms? 5 year warranty is hard to beat.

Any updates on your experience with SkanC, especially with regards to price, functionality, reliability, and after-sales service?

 

[Doctodd]

i wouldnt risk it on an unkown fluoro....too much risk

 

[Crybaby]

Any updates on your experience with SkanC, especially with regards to price, functionality, reliability, and after-sales service?

I ultimately did not have final say in buying, my new group surprised me with an OEC 9800, I have yet to use as we are awaiting a table .

I have talked to one doc who uses the skan C and he says he like it a lot (busy private practice clinic). I was pretty excited about the skan C, but I won't complain about what I have!