Should I apply again after Intern Year??

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infinitydoc3

Hi, I'm a Canadian from London, Ontario. I went to St Georges for Med school and I just matched into a categorical IM program in Florida but would like to apply for another specialty. Due to visa issues, I wasn't able to apply to Emergency Medicine (since EM in Canada is a 5 year program) but I have since figured that out and will not require a visa anymore. So I tried going on resident swap to see if anyone in an EM program was looking to switch into an IM program but that doesn't seem likely. So it seems my only other option is to finish my PGY1 year while applying again this year again. So I'm curious if anyone has any guidance on this? I'll be looking to talk to my PD about this soon so but if anyone has any experience about this I'd really appreciate it. Would having done a year of residency look favorable as in a prelim candidate?
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Stay in your residency. Your chance of EM is very low.
 
EM is one of the hottest specialties currently. Being a foreign grad you will need to either be gods gift to medicine, rich, or get buddy-buddy with a PD. Otherwise your chances of matching EM next year are slim to none.
 
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Almost all of my friends from my class who applied EM matched. Check our residency match list on our site. Please are there any objective readers out there? This forum has turned into the hall of haters
 
Ur looking at stats from unaccrediated Caribbean schools and overseas. Look at stats from st george only
 
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bashwell said:
Is there a more recent one for IMGs so it's more relevant to OP? 2013 is on the old side unfortunately.
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I've checked the NRMP report of 2016, I cannot find anything. Sorry. However, this is the most relevant data and judging by this OP shouldn't try.
 
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infinitydoc3 said:
Almost all of my friends from my class who applied EM matched. Check our residency match list on our site. Please are there any objective readers out there? This forum has turned into the hall of haters
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Not only a Carib grad but a Carib grad who is trying to switch specialties, and one with a 'tude, too! That's what you call "damaged goods" but hey, I'm just a hater. Good luck lol.
 
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infinitydoc3 said:
No med students allowed
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1) Come on, OP, be reasonable. You're barely a graduate yourself.

2) An attending (@Tenk) and another resident (@DrfluffyMD) gave their advice above, but you dismissed them as "haters" and implied they weren't "objective". That's a pretty immature reply from you to them, even while you act condescendingly toward med students (and I'm not a med student).

3) The same resident (@DrfluffyMD) then gave you a link to NRMP Charting Outcomes data, which is objective data, but then you said the resident should only factor in stats from your Carib school. What's that going to prove? Even if it's true St. George matches well into EM residencies, that doesn't necessarily mean anything for you. You already matched into IM and are trying to switch. Trying to switch residencies isn't the same thing as applying straight from med school during the match. If you want data, what you really need is data about people who successfully switched from IM to EM somewhere, what they did, how they did it, etc.

4) Basically it sounds like you have already made up your mind and are just trying to get some validation for your choice. You're not asking IF you should apply again after intern year, but you're looking for help about HOW to apply to EM so you can match somewhere in EM. If you want EM so badly, and you're looking for SDN advice, then you should start by searching the other threads about people switching from IM to EM and see how they did it. I already found a couple just on a quick search.
 
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Thanks bashwell. Can you send me the links to the thread that you found?
 
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Million $ Mistake

Here OP, hear it from someone in internal medicine just like you! (Hint, it wasn't his first choice)

And also just like you, he went to the Harvard of the Caribean. Maybe like you, he scored 260 on step 1 ans 276 on step 2.
 
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There is no rule that prevents you from applying again and trying to get an EM spot. However, there are some logistical issues of which you need to be aware (and address).

1. Getting time to interview. Internship is a job, you can't just ask for a bunch of days off to interview for a new position. If you've matched into a position that is in a large metro area with multiple EM programs local (i.e. NYC), then you'd be able to interview at each program in a single day. But if you're somewhere that travel will be needed, getting all the time off you need to interview may not be possible.

2. Funding - because you've started in IM, you get maximum GME funding for 3 years. If you start again in EM, after 3 total years your funding is less -- about 75% of full funding. Many programs will not care about this. Some might.

3. Not sure what you mean by you've "figured out your visa issue". If you need a visa, you need a visa. If you marry a US citizen you might be able to get an EAD -- but this is very complicated.

4. If you applied this year and didn't get an EM spot, being enrolled in a new program won't probably change your application competitiveness. If you never applied for EM the first time, then this isn't an issue (but you'd want to compare your stats to the averages).

5. The match is in March. Your program might require a commitment for a pGY-2 before that. You can't do both -- the match requires that you be uncommitted for July. If you don't match, you might lose your PGY-2 spot and then have to hunt around to find a new one. Your program might be willing to hold your spot open until match results are available, but this is completely at their discretion. Waiting until March to fill a PGY-2 position is a hard ask for a program -- most of the good candidates will have found spots by then.
 
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Maybe he can drop out and let people who are actually passionate about IM take his spot.
 
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Ignore the toxicity. I dont think its unreasonable to try and chase your dreams.
EM is not as competitive as some of them make it out to be compared to most of the surgical subspecialties, but by no means will it be a walk in the park.

I think to start off you have to look at your CV. I think at this point the only thing that can improve your chances would be EM research and strong LOR.

Then I would speak with your PD. Start with being indirect and feeling him out regarding how he feels towards residents who have had a change of heart.

Regardless you will need his blessing in the future, however if he is supportive at this time it is a bonus and you can openly seek letters. If not it would be better to keep it down low.

You will need time to interview and you will have to arrange with your team to get time off.

And of course make sure you dont sign next years IM contract if u do match.

It will be an uphill battle. I would keep searching residentswap too, you never know if someone would drop out...
 
infinitydoc3 said:
Ur looking at stats from unaccrediated Caribbean schools and overseas. Look at stats from st george only
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That's for literally every IMG combined. 87 people in the entire world, SGU included, that were foreign graduates matched. I doubt SGU somehow magically made up the bulk of that 87.
 
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bannie22 said:
Ignore the toxicity. I dont think its unreasonable to try and chase your dreams.
EM is not as competitive as some of them make it out to be compared to most of the surgical subspecialties, but by no means will it be a walk in the park.

I think to start off you have to look at your CV. I think at this point the only thing that can improve your chances would be EM research and strong LOR.

Then I would speak with your PD. Start with being indirect and feeling him out regarding how he feels towards residents who have had a change of heart.

Regardless you will need his blessing in the future, however if he is supportive at this time it is a bonus and you can openly seek letters. If not it would be better to keep it down low.

You will need time to interview and you will have to arrange with your team to get time off.

And of course make sure you dont sign next years IM contract if u do match.

It will be an uphill battle. I would keep searching residentswap too, you never know if someone would drop out...
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The "toxicity" was started by OP (e.g., when OP started calling people "haters," implying they weren't being "objective," etc.). Before that, there was some sarcasm at worst. However, note some people still tried to help OP regardless of how OP has been responding.
 
Mad Jack said:
That's for literally every IMG combined. 87 people in the entire world, SGU included, that were foreign graduates matched. I doubt SGU somehow magically made up the bulk of that 87.
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To be fair I think the 87 was the number of US IMG. I believe FMG were 79 total. Not great odds.

Mind you, OP would reapply as a med school graduate which is a double whammy.
 
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DrfluffyMD said:
To be fair I think the 87 was the number of US IMG. I believe FMG were 79 total. Not great odds.

Mind you, OP would reapply as a med school graduate which is a double whammy.
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Med school graduate IMG that abandoned his first residency and has an iffy visa situation, what could go wrong?
 
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Mad Jack said:
Med school graduate IMG that abandoned his first residency and has an iffy visa situation, what could go wrong?
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Oh yeah the visa situation. He sure did figure it out though!
 
bannie22 said:
You will need time to interview and you will have to arrange with your team to get time off.
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Just a word of caution here. The #1 reason I have let residents go is not showing up for work. Asking your teammates to cover for you is unacceptable without permission from the program. It's not school anymore -- it's a paid job.
 
"guys, I won the powerball jackpot for $880k, but I'm thinking of just giving it up and going for the New York State mega millions. I met a guy on the internet that says it can be done!"
 
IslandStyle808 said:
Pg. 55 of the 2013 ECFMG shows that 33% of SGU graduates matched into EM. The amount of fresh senior US-IMGs that match are 29.7% for EM.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf
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I literally showed the odds of an SGU matching into EM and even the chances of a US-IMG matching with each passing year on the NRMP report. And people are choosing to ignore it and think I'm a hater. Its not like I copied and pasted this from a bathroom wall...
 
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aProgDirector said:
Just a word of caution here. The #1 reason I have let residents go is not showing up for work. Asking your teammates to cover for you is unacceptable without permission from the program. It's not school anymore -- it's a paid job.
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I never had that problem with my coresidents and everyone was happy to cover anyone who required time off for interviews. Going a man down means nothing if we are able to help each other out in our careers. In fact, when one resident was offered a position and the program was giving him a tough time regarding his contract, everyone at his level offered to take a cut of all his remaining calls.
But well, each program to their own.
 
I'm just a med student but sounds like a pretty big gamble based on the data presented here. Why don't you stay in IM and pursue a fellowship after your residency?
 
OP says no med students allowed and posts on the med student forum.
 
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