UTSW complaints (again)

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yes, I understand it's important. I'm not arguing against that. But it's also not that big of a deal at this juncture. The goal of med school is (or at least should be) to educate. Just educate her, give her the opportunity to clarify, and move on.

You really think she didn't know that was the LEFT common carotid artery? Come on. It's obvious. If you fail someone for that, then you're really just looking for reasons to fail them imo.

If it's so obvious why didn't she do it?

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[anesussy]

If it's so obvious why didn't she do it?

Probably because she didn't know she had to?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Probably because she didn't know she had to?

That's possible but I find it extremely unlikely.

 

[anesussy]

That's possible but I find it extremely unlikely.

I find it far more likely than any other possible explanation. It's actually ridiculous the amount of things in medical training that your superiors just expect you to know, and then are upset when you didn't know about it. Like dude just tell me and I'll do it next time. Not that big of a freaking deal.

Instead, everyone (like yourself) jumps to the worst possible conclusion. Come on dude. Have some freaking good faith, geez.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I find it far more likely than any other possible explanation. It's actually ridiculous the amount of things in medical training that your superiors just expect you to know, and then are upset when you didn't know about it. Like dude just tell me and I'll do it next time. Not that big of a freaking deal.

Instead, everyone (like yourself) jumps to the worst possible conclusion. Come on dude. Have some freaking good faith, geez.

Then you are likely uninformed. Pretty much everyone in my medical school class missed at least one question over laterality.

 

[anesussy]

Then you are likely uninformed. Pretty much everyone in my medical school class missed at least one question over laterality.

Nobody (to my knowledge) ever missed a question for not specifying the laterality at my school’s anatomy exams because they were very clear that you needed to specify. Sounds like her school (and yours) did a poor job at communicating. My position is that the students should not be held responsible for poor communication on behalf of the instructor.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

So basically they failed her because she put "common carotid artery" instead of "LEFT common carotid artery"?

I would be pissed as well, unless they made it VERY clear that you needed to indicate the laterality in order to get credit.

Also those of you arguing "life's not fair." What the hell are you on about? Ok, so let's just not fix anything ever or do anything right ever because life isn't fair. Did your patient OD on opioids? "Hey kid, I could give you naloxone, but I won't. Life's not fair."

And some of you are acting like UTSW gave this poor girl every opportunity to remediate. Yeah right. A truly fair remediation would have been to bring her back into the anatomy lab and say, "Your exam score was borderline, partly because you didn't receive credit on this question. You didn't say whether it was the right or left common carotid artery. Could you do that for us now?"

Lol you clearly didn’t read the whole blog posts.. she didn’t just fail anatomy but that one point.. she failed MULTIPLE courses and barely passed all her courses…

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Nobody (to my knowledge) ever missed a question for not specifying the laterality at my school’s anatomy exams because they were very clear that you needed to specify. Sounds like her school (and yours) did a poor job at communicating. My position is that the students should not be held responsible for poor communication on behalf of the instructor.

Laterality is inherent to anatomy.. they also gave her half a point.. it’s a massive moot point because she didn’t fail by half a point.. or fail one course. She failed multiple courses and barely passed most of them. She actively shut down mentors and people trying to help her. she acted incredibly paranoid when they tried to help her. She failed to realize that they weren’t robbing her of points on questions that were thrown out, she couldn’t double dip on points on thrown out questions she got correct cause well she already got points for them. She also failed to realize the very very basic concept of a merit scholarship only covering the cost of tuition and VA benefits also basically covering the same thing. She wrongly assumed(or tired to double dip and game the system) to try and get paid to go to medical school of all things… she also got surprised when it obviously didn’t work that way.. so she got further paranoid and thought an institution as large as UTSW was out to get her.. I could honestly go on and on and on about her various missteps, one of which was simply not listening to advisors who had nothing but her best interest in mind and who most likely recommended taking a LOA to sort out the anxiety issues, she wrongly didn’t listen to any of it and instead proceeded to sue the institution because they basically changed thier merit scholarship requirements so that you can’t fail more than two classes in a semester(which is soo incredibly reasonable for a merit scholarship)… so yea I could care less that UTSW gave her half a point for not putting laterality on an anatomy question. Her claims that other students in simmilar situation were treated differently also sounds incredulous, things were different for those individuals because they listened to the advice given to them and things eventually worked out for them.

Edit: I have no affiliation to UTSW btw

 

[Billy Ruben]

I’m familiar with UTSW and I can say regardless of this students situation, they tend not to be supportive of students/trainees compared to other institutions. In my experience, it’s a very malicious institution. They do have world class people for sure, but many more incompetents who are motivated by racial and religious animus. I would not recommend it to anyone except for southern white Christians who intend to stay in the area.

I can also say now at the end of my training that performance in anatomy doesn’t really correlate with performance in anything else, and I would never take disciplinary action against a student for anatomy performance. Personally I think it should be a second year class after basic physiology is covered.

 

[NITRAS]

I’m familiar with UTSW and I can say regardless of this students situation, they tend not to be supportive of students/trainees compared to other institutions. In my experience, it’s a very malicious institution. They do have world class people for sure, but many more incompetents who are motivated by racial and religious animus. I would not recommend it to anyone except for southern white Christians who intend to stay in the area.

I can also say now at the end of my training that performance in anatomy doesn’t really correlate with performance in anything else, and I would never take disciplinary action against a student for anatomy performance. Personally I think it should be a second year class after basic physiology is covered.

I think it is safe to say that there can be a healthy discussion if the amount of time medical students spend in anatomy lab is a worthwhile Use of time. Even if I think that anatomy is a waste of time (I do), I still think you need to pass your classes, and if you are depending on half a point to pass a class. . . . You have already failed. Shoot, I had anatomy PhD’s teach mine, and they use different terminology for many things than physicans. Honestly very little help to me, an internist and Hospitalist 7 years into practice.

And yes, they had questions that they expected me to put down left or right.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Nobody (to my knowledge) ever missed a question for not specifying the laterality at my school’s anatomy exams because they were very clear that you needed to specify. Sounds like her school (and yours) did a poor job at communicating. My position is that the students should not be held responsible for poor communication on behalf of the instructor.

Nope, it was heavily harped upon the very first day of class and most lab sessions after that. But you get tired, you put left instead of right, or forget to specify. It happens.

 

[Billy Ruben]

I think it is safe to say that there can be a healthy discussion if the amount of time medical students spend in anatomy lab is a worthwhile Use of time. Even if I think that anatomy is a waste of time (I do), I still think you need to pass your classes, and if you are depending on half a point to pass a class. . . . You have already failed. Shoot, I had anatomy PhD’s teach mine, and they use different terminology for many things than physicans. Honestly very little help to me, an internist and Hospitalist 7 years into practice.

And yes, they had questions that they expected me to put down left or right.

that’s true. Again, I don’t know this students situation beyond their perspective but since this a public forum I’d say the larger point that UTSW doesn’t treat med students well IS true.

I’d also say that when you perform poorly in one class or one rotation in med school you are held to greater scrutiny which can be very anxiety-provoking and might induce failure.

 

[Billiam95]

I’d also say that when you perform poorly in one class or one rotation in med school you are held to greater scrutiny which can be very anxiety-provoking and might induce failure.

At risk of sounding harsh, a student who compounds a single failure into additional failures from increased scrutiny-related anxiety may just not be cut out for medicine. MS1 is the relative easiest year and pressure/responsibility only increases in subsequent years.

 

[anesussy]

At risk of sounding harsh, a student who compounds a single failure into additional failures from increased scrutiny-related anxiety may just not be cut out for medicine. MS1 is the relative easiest year and pressure/responsibility only increases in subsequent years.

M1 was definitely the hardest for me. I don’t think any broad generalization like that is fair.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I am at risk of sounding rude/crude here but I will say that most of the people “defending” her are missing the larger picture. Was she unfortunate that she failed a class because she failed the final by 0.5 point or she lost 0.5 point on an anatomy question for not putting right vs left? Yea for sure… but failing multiple classes each semester and barely passing most classes the entire year are more indicative of a disturbing pattern rather than one unfortunate event. Maybe UTSW isn’t “supportive” of their students, but based on what I saw in the emails she made public, they were more than willing to help her and guide her so she could either pass the first year or take an LOA( I.e the advice about failing the class you can’t possibly pass in order to pass your other classes makes perfect sense)… she simply didn’t listen to them…. Her story isn’t entirely honest of the real situation, she isn’t telling us that she failed multiple classes each semester, and that she was borderline failing all the others ones she did manage to pass.. if she was clear about that then she’d have no real argument(the final letter from the SPC makes this clear) She is cherry picking 1-2 unlucky things that happened in a sea of a pattern of her failing/struggling where people tried to help her right the ship and/or bail and come back stronger the next year but she didn’t listen….

 

[Bolololol]

The fact that she posted this blog tells me that this isn't gonna make it to a real court. Don't do this stuff online without having it approved by a lawyer.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Because laterality has always mattered in anatomy. I find it very unlikely that no one had ever mentioned that point to her.

Unless everyone is writing answers like LEFT brachioradialis muscle, medial lemniscus on LEFT knee, etc. I find this statement to be cherry-picking

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The point is more that there is no way one can fail an anatomy practical based on laterality alone

 

[anesussy]

The point is more that there is no way one can fail an anatomy practical based on laterality alone

Ok? But if you're failing, every point counts.

You could make the same argument for a crucial missed call at the end of a basketball game. "If you had just made your free throws, you would have won." Ok? So we just have to put up with incompetent refs?

None of your arguments are swaying me. It very much seems like you guys reached your own conclusion and are trying to shoehorn every piece of evidence to fit your side.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Unless everyone is writing answers like LEFT brachioradialis muscle, medial lemniscus on LEFT knee, etc. I find this statement to be cherry-picking

That's exactly what we were expected to do.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

That's exactly what we were expected to do.

Maybe I’m just not far enough into anatomy yet but how is this possible to even tell? Is it just like looking at the full donor such that the viewer’s left is the patient’s right?

 

[Goro]

Maybe I’m just not far enough into anatomy yet but how is this possible to even tell? Is it just like looking at the full donor such that the viewer’s left is the patient’s right?

Yes. That's the way you look at MRIs, for example.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Maybe I’m just not far enough into anatomy yet but how is this possible to even tell? Is it just like looking at the full donor such that the viewer’s left is the patient’s right?

There is a dead person lying on the table in front of you with a tiny pin in some part of their anatomy. It shouldn't be too hard to tell left from right.

Or if it's just a single body part, you should still be able to tell as you either have mirror symmetry such as in the extremities/head/neck or anatomic differences like in the lungs.

For instance, if you just show me a knee completely by itself I look for the pes ancerine. If it is on my left looking from an inferior angle it's the left knee and vice versa.

 

[Smurfette]

Unless everyone is writing answers like LEFT brachioradialis muscle, medial lemniscus on LEFT knee, etc. I find this statement to be cherry-picking

As @VA Hopeful Dr said, that's exactly what is required. You can tell because you either have a full view of the body, or the orientation of nearby structures gives it away. Usually the entire structure is dissected out so you can see it in its entirety. Sometimes a structure has a slightly different course and isn't completely symmetric to the other side. There are also anatomical variants you may be required to learn and identify as well.

 

[esob]

At the end of the day, this story makes a strong argument for picking a school w/ an NBME-based exam system. Granted, we have other grades but the largest chunk of our grades always came from well-vetted questions. I too am surprised that a veteran would have let things get so out of hand. Finding solutions when the proverbial **** hits the fan is a skill set that is often part of daily life on active duty.

 

[GoSpursGo]

+1 w/ @VA Hopeful Dr and @Smurfette . We had to indicate laterality every time.

 

[anesussy]

At the end of the day, this story makes a strong argument for picking a school w/ an NBME-based exam system. Granted, we have other grades but the largest chunk of our grades always came from well-vetted questions. I too am surprised that a veteran would have let things get so out of hand. Finding solutions when the proverbial **** hits the fan is a skill set that is often part of daily life on active duty.

Do you know which schools are like this? Only one I know of is SLU.

 

[Lawpy]

So what’s the update? Because i feel like this case is going to be dismissed. And rereading the student’s rant… i don’t think UTSW or any school in US is going to take her

 

[operaman]

So what’s the update? Because i feel like this case is going to be dismissed. And rereading the student’s rant… i don’t think UTSW or any school in US is going to take her

Oh this won’t get a final update for a long time. Hopefully someone remembers to look it up in a couple of years to see when it gets dismissed. There are simply no meaningful facts in dispute here.

She failed far too many things and that’s not in dispute; it also renders her other arguments moot from a legal standpoint. The only wild card would be if there was another similarly situated student who was allowed to remediate and repeat the year, but I highly doubt it. My guess is the other student failed one class in the fall, shaped up, passed everything else, successfully remediated and moved on while keeping the scholarship.

.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The uva student probably had a better case than this (although it was also a bad case) and lost. Would be surprised if this even makes it to the next stage before dismissal

 

[lno1999]

Something I overheard a professor once tell a kid when he asked for a 1% bump on a barely failed test, after him saying "but it was only one point, that's not even a full question," when the professor told him that he clearly didn't deserve to pass.

"You couldn't even obtain the grade that means you know the LEAST amount of knowledge possible to BARELY be competent in a watered down, introductory version of the content. To give you a passing grade and somehow fool myself into thinking you were anywhere near the level of mastering the content would be a disservice to us both."

 

[SquidLab]

Something I overheard a professor once tell a kid when he asked for a 1% bump on a barely failed test, after him saying "but it was only one point, that's not even a full question," when the professor told him that he clearly didn't deserve to pass.

"You couldn't even obtain the grade that means you know the LEAST amount of knowledge possible to BARELY be competent in a watered down, introductory version of the content. To give you a passing grade and somehow fool myself into thinking you were anywhere near the level of mastering the content would be a disservice to us both."

Just to push back on this a little -- medical students are not expected to master their content. They are expected to absorb enough to be competent once they hit the wards. Mastery is supposed to come with experience. A lot of professors who write med school exams have never taken Step 1 or been a part of clinical decision-making, which leads to many questions that will never be relevant to a future clinician. This doesn't have anything to do with UTSW specifically, but medical education in general.

 

[Goro]

Just to push back on this a little -- medical students are not expected to master their content. They are expected to absorb enough to be competent once they hit the wards. Mastery is supposed to come with experience. A lot of professors who write med school exams have never taken Step 1 or been a part of clinical decision-making, which leads to many questions that will never be relevant to a future clinician. This doesn't have anything to do with UTSW specifically, but medical education in general.

But that's the point here. The student didn't even display minimal competence, much less mastery.

And actually we want medical students to display mastery. You should always strive for it! That way you can aim for the Stars.

So, what whether one fails by one point or 100, it's the same thing.

 

[lno1999]

Just to push back on this a little -- medical students are not expected to master their content. They are expected to absorb enough to be competent once they hit the wards. Mastery is supposed to come with experience. A lot of professors who write med school exams have never taken Step 1 or been a part of clinical decision-making, which leads to many questions that will never be relevant to a future clinician. This doesn't have anything to do with UTSW specifically, but medical education in general.

You kinda just hit the head on the nail. They aren't expected to master the content (hence them only needing a 70 to get their "P,") but they STILL couldn't do the bare minimum expected of them to get 70% correct. Almost no course in undergraduate education expects you to master the content either, but everyone strives to reach the "mastery level" of >90%.

Edit: this also depends on your definition of mastery I suppose. For example, someone that scores >90% and would get an A/H/HP or whatever on their nephro exam hasn't mastered the content. They simply have mastered the watered-down version presented to medical students, and then would later go on to master the contents associated with nephrology if they chose to learn more about it in future training.

 

[Lem0nz]

Ok? But if you're failing, every point counts.

You could make the same argument for a crucial missed call at the end of a basketball game. "If you had just made your free throws, you would have won." Ok? So we just have to put up with incompetent refs?

None of your arguments are swaying me. It very much seems like you guys reached your own conclusion and are trying to shoehorn every piece of evidence to fit your side.

In a world where wrong-site operations are still occurring, CT/MRI reads are incorrect because of this 'simple' mistake, and anatomy from right to left can be variable with significant consequences (the left IJV and the RIJV do not take the same course which affects your choice of dilator and catheter stiffness when accessing them for lines, for example) this absolutely matters. And in nearly every anatomy class is stated multiple times, extremely clearly, that laterality must be labeled and matters.

**** I *still* say out loud "everyone agrees this is the left arm" AFTER the time out before I make an incision on an extremity solely so I don't **** it up. Just because its obvious doesn't mean it isn't important OR mean that it is not capable of error with extraordinarily serious consequences.

Laterality in anatomy is not just a professor being nitpicky. It is an exercise in safety for the remainder of a physician's career. There may be a lot of things we do 'just because' or 'because we've always done it this way', but laterality in your anatomy class is not one of them. If you aren't saying right or left before describing a body part that occurs on a side you are incorrect. In anatomy class, in your note writing, in your career.

Relevant experience to speak on this topic: I'm a cancer surgeon and in the world of copy forward notes it is extremely easy and frighteningly common for doctors to not label sides or label sides incorrectly in their documentation and I have seen people inches from local treatment being aimed at the wrong location.

 

[anesussy]

In a world where wrong-site operations are still occurring, CT/MRI reads are incorrect because of this 'simple' mistake, and anatomy from right to left can be variable with significant consequences (the left IJV and the RIJV do not take the same course which affects your choice of dilator and catheter stiffness when accessing them for lines, for example) this absolutely matters. And in nearly every anatomy class is stated multiple times, extremely clearly, that laterality must be labeled and matters.

**** I *still* say out loud "everyone agrees this is the left arm" AFTER the time out before I make an incision on an extremity solely so I don't **** it up. Just because its obvious doesn't mean it isn't important OR mean that it is not capable of error with extraordinarily serious consequences.

Laterality in anatomy is not just a professor being nitpicky. It is an exercise in safety for the remainder of a physician's career. There may be a lot of things we do 'just because' or 'because we've always done it this way', but laterality in your anatomy class is not one of them. If you aren't saying right or left before describing a body part that occurs on a side you are incorrect. In anatomy class, in your note writing, in your career.

Relevant experience to speak on this topic: I'm a cancer surgeon and in the world of copy forward notes it is extremely easy and frighteningly common for doctors to not label sides or label sides incorrectly in their documentation and I have seen people inches from local treatment being aimed at the wrong location.

Yeah, and that's why you have all of medical school to teach you the importance of that fact

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

In a world where wrong-site operations are still occurring, CT/MRI reads are incorrect because of this 'simple' mistake, and anatomy from right to left can be variable with significant consequences (the left IJV and the RIJV do not take the same course which affects your choice of dilator and catheter stiffness when accessing them for lines, for example) this absolutely matters. And in nearly every anatomy class is stated multiple times, extremely clearly, that laterality must be labeled and matters.

**** I *still* say out loud "everyone agrees this is the left arm" AFTER the time out before I make an incision on an extremity solely so I don't **** it up. Just because its obvious doesn't mean it isn't important OR mean that it is not capable of error with extraordinarily serious consequences.

Laterality in anatomy is not just a professor being nitpicky. It is an exercise in safety for the remainder of a physician's career. There may be a lot of things we do 'just because' or 'because we've always done it this way', but laterality in your anatomy class is not one of them. If you aren't saying right or left before describing a body part that occurs on a side you are incorrect. In anatomy class, in your note writing, in your career.

Relevant experience to speak on this topic: I'm a cancer surgeon and in the world of copy forward notes it is extremely easy and frighteningly common for doctors to not label sides or label sides incorrectly in their documentation and I have seen people inches from local treatment being aimed at the wrong location.

This terrifies me as someone who is prone to silly mistakes. I suppose we all are, but every time I do something idiotic and absentminded (e.g., click wrong in Endnote and cite the wrong paper in a manuscript draft, make a bonehead choice in UWorld based on a misread vignette) I extrapolate out to "what if that was a patient decision?"

 

[Goro]

Yeah, and that's why you have all of medical school to teach you the importance of that fact

Good on you for being a cancer surgeon

And that training starts in Year One, where you're expected to know the difference between right and left in anatomy lab.

I don't know why you keep picking this hill to die on. If the student had passed Anatomy with a 70%, she still would have been dismissed due to failing other courses and the business with the funding. Plus whatever else she didn't tell us about

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Ignoring the issue of laterality in anatomy, the "problem" here is trying to use a percent performance cutoff on an exam to assess competency. If a 70% is pass and 69.4% is fail, the knowledge difference / performance difference between those two scores is meaningless. They are exactly the same, yet we label one as pass and the other as fail.

This problem is inherent with any test with a pass/fail outcome. It can't really be fixed.

Other than finding something other than a test to use, the only "solution" is where you set the pass threshold. If you set it very high, then you know that everyone who passes is competent, but some people who fail will also be competent. If you set the pass threshold very low, then everyone who fails is incompetent, but some people who pass are incompetent also. Picking the middle seems like the best compromise, but actually leaves you with less information (anyone near the pass threshold on either side could be misclassified).

 

[operaman]

Yeah, and that's why you have all of medical school to teach you the importance of that fact

Good on you for being a cancer surgeon

Exactly. And she failed to master even the most basic MS1 part. It only gets harder when you layer on more complexity.

I still get stuck on the idea that 70% has is remotely competent. Personally I’d rather set passing cutoffs at 80% as a bare minimum. The fact she couldn’t muster 70% across multiple classes over 2 semesters - despite her school bending over backward trying to help her - suggests that medicine is not the right fit for her.

UTSW seems to feel the same way which is why they showed her the door.


And seconding my surg onc colleague above - laterality is incredibly important and I too am overly paranoid about it. Ear surgery is probably where I fear it the most because by the time the patient is draped and turned it’s easy to get turned around. I saw some near misses in training and have a fairly rigorous pre op regimen to make sure I never get this wrong. Ditto for any other procedure with laterality.

Care and concern for detail starts on day one of Med school and never stops.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Ignoring the issue of laterality in anatomy, the "problem" here is trying to use a percent performance cutoff on an exam to assess competency. If a 70% is pass and 69.4% is fail, the knowledge difference / performance difference between those two scores is meaningless. They are exactly the same, yet we label one as pass and the other as fail.

This problem is inherent with any test with a pass/fail outcome. It can't really be fixed.

Other than finding something other than a test to use, the only "solution" is where you set the pass threshold. If you set it very high, then you know that everyone who passes is competent, but some people who fail will also be competent. If you set the pass threshold very low, then everyone who fails is incompetent, but some people who pass are incompetent also. Picking the middle seems like the best compromise, but actually leaves you with less information (anyone near the pass threshold on either side could be misclassified).

I ended up with a bad grade first semester
biochem by one question. Literally one question across 3 months would have been the deciding factor.

 

[Lem0nz]

Yeah, and that's why you have all of medical school to teach you the importance of that fact

So… what, you get a free pass in the first year or two of school?

Bruh.

 

[esob]

I would argue that burnout/fatigue, poorly designed/implemented QC, and probably a touch of personality disorders contribute as much (if not more) to mistakes than incompetence. It seems difficult to imagine someone capable of 90th percentile board scores who could, as an isolated exercise, be unable to differentiate a left limb from a right limb.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would argue that burnout/fatigue, poorly designed/implemented QC, and probably a touch of personality disorders contribute as much (if not more) to mistakes than incompetence. It seems difficult to imagine someone capable of 90th percentile board scores who could, as an isolated exercise, be unable to differentiate a left limb from a right limb.

Wasn’t she a first year? How have board scores?

 

[Lost in Translation]

I would argue that burnout/fatigue, poorly designed/implemented QC, and probably a touch of personality disorders contribute as much (if not more) to mistakes than incompetence. It seems difficult to imagine someone capable of 90th percentile board scores who could, as an isolated exercise, be unable to differentiate a left limb from a right limb.

I’m pretty sure she wasn’t testing in the 90th percentile on UWorld…

 

[esob]

I’m pretty sure she wasn’t testing in the 90th percentile on UWorld…

I'll respond to this to quell any future responses that missed the drift of my original message.

My comment was referring to the above deluge of posts insinuating that inattention to laterality by an MS1 in anatomy was the cause of wrong site surgeries, IN GENERAL. I was refuting that the vast majority of surgeons have high board scores, and hence the inability to differentiate laterality is likely not a consequence of their grasp of anatomy and more to do with other systemic failures.

It's too early for me to sift through all the iterations of logical fallacies, but this is definitely one of them (strawman if I had to pick an answer).

 

[O Gurl]

After reading the full Medium post, I have a lot of concerns. Firstly, the discrete changing of the scholarship language was out of bounds. That is, technically, changing the terms of a binding contract on one side without alerting the other party. It would have taken someone with major pull to request those changes be made. With that context established, everything else that she claims sounds a lot more believable. An institution that would do something that brazen and unethical, probably would also retaliate against a student who puts up a fuss about it.

The issue of grading is also concerning. First, I will be completely transparent in that I do not like the idea of any program that has sliding or ambiguous grading practices that may impact different students to different degrees, especially when there is not an established standard of transparency. Her correspondence with the professors in two of the course blocks were troubling. The way that they refused to hear appeals, in violation with their own handbook, is a sign of a culture of that does not hold itself accountable. Also, the one professor who simply could not come up with a valid explanation for the fact that she received fewer credited points back, pretty much seals the deal that something was amiss. It is not difficult to say, in simple terms, that we credited points back based on specific items that were deemed invalid and you happened to get those items correctly (strange, but ok) so you did not benefit from the curve. That is problematic for a variety of reasons, namely, it could allow instructors to pick and choose items based on who got them right. However, the instructor asserts that she did not get the tossed items correctly. So there really isn't any explanation for the discrepancy. I also scoff at the idea of taking credit away for not specifying right or left side of the body for MS1 anatomy lab. I don't think anyone can truly believe that a medical student doesn't know left from right. The idea at that point is to demonstrate that you know what the structure IS. I don't want to get too into the weeds on that, but if she did observe other students not being dinged for those small things, then it adds to a clear picture of some sort of bias or retaliation.

Finally, there is the issue of disability accommodation and equitable treatment of other similarly situated students. If they have done things like offered LOA or full year repeats (with the scholarship still active) then they will have a very hard time explaining why this time was handled so differently.

At any rate, those were my impressions. I do want to say, just for clarity, that I notice some accounts that have engaged this conversation have since been restricted. There does not appear to be anyone that is violating TOS in their responses. At most, some of the early contributions had some less than savory racial undertones, but even then, people have a right to speak that way. My hope is that if a moderator here on SDN is in any way tied to the UTSW, that he or she would not allow their affiliation to cause them to unfairly censor contributors.

 

[O Gurl]

Laterality is inherent to anatomy.. they also gave her half a point.. it’s a massive moot point because she didn’t fail by half a point.. or fail one course. She failed multiple courses and barely passed most of them. She actively shut down mentors and people trying to help her. she acted incredibly paranoid when they tried to help her. She failed to realize that they weren’t robbing her of points on questions that were thrown out, she couldn’t double dip on points on thrown out questions she got correct cause well she already got points for them. She also failed to realize the very very basic concept of a merit scholarship only covering the cost of tuition and VA benefits also basically covering the same thing. She wrongly assumed(or tired to double dip and game the system) to try and get paid to go to medical school of all things… she also got surprised when it obviously didn’t work that way.. so she got further paranoid and thought an institution as large as UTSW was out to get her.. I could honestly go on and on and on about her various missteps, one of which was simply not listening to advisors who had nothing but her best interest in mind and who most likely recommended taking a LOA to sort out the anxiety issues, she wrongly didn’t listen to any of it and instead proceeded to sue the institution because they basically changed thier merit scholarship requirements so that you can’t fail more than two classes in a semester(which is soo incredibly reasonable for a merit scholarship)… so yea I could care less that UTSW gave her half a point for not putting laterality on an anatomy question. Her claims that other students in simmilar situation were treated differently also sounds incredulous, things were different for those individuals because they listened to the advice given to them and things eventually worked out for them.

Edit: I have no affiliation to UTSW btw

I think it is important to engage the facts that we have before us, and based on what is described and backed by evidence in the post, the professors were not being very forthright about the grading procedures. If that many classes warrant curves and grade adjustments after each exam, then that is a sign that MANY students were falling short of the established pass criteria. If other similarly situated students were being bumped above passing and are still in the class, and she just happened to fall a point or two shy in several classes, repeatedly, after having an attorney contact the school, then that is suspicious. The major question is whether she was being treated the same as her peers.

Also, both the school fin aid department and VA benefits office approved the double funding and, according to the blog, she did receive the refund on the excess after tuition and fees were settled. This is not unusual for Chapter 31 or Voc Rehabilitation since those are considered earned benefits for military services. A merit scholarship is also an earned funding source. I highly doubt that both offices got it wrong and issued the payments in error. So the adverse responses and comments about her "double dipping" seem a bit strange.

Finally, where did you read that any LOA was offered to accommodate her anxiety? The letters that she embedded within the blog for the scholarship revocation and dismissal do not make reference to any such offer.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

After reading the full Medium post, I have a lot of concerns. Firstly, the discrete changing of the scholarship language was out of bounds. That is, technically, changing the terms of a binding contract on one side without alerting the other party. It would have taken someone with major pull to request those changes be made. With that context established, everything else that she claims sounds a lot more believable. An institution that would do something that brazen and unethical, probably would also retaliate against a student who puts up a fuss about it.

The issue of grading is also concerning. First, I will be completely transparent in that I do not like the idea of any program that has sliding or ambiguous grading practices that may impact different students to different degrees, especially when there is not an established standard of transparency. Her correspondence with the professors in two of the course blocks were troubling. The way that they refused to hear appeals, in violation with their own handbook, is a sign of a culture of that does not hold itself accountable. Also, the one professor who simply could not come up with a valid explanation for the fact that she received fewer credited points back, pretty much seals the deal that something was amiss. It is not difficult to say, in simple terms, that we credited points back based on specific items that were deemed invalid and you happened to get those items correctly (strange, but ok) so you did not benefit from the curve. That is problematic for a variety of reasons, namely, it could allow instructors to pick and choose items based on who got them right. However, the instructor asserts that she did not get the tossed items correctly. So there really isn't any explanation for the discrepancy. I also scoff at the idea of taking credit away for not specify right or left side of the body for MS1 anatomy lab. I don't think anyone can truly believe that a medical student doesn't know left from right. The idea at that point is to demonstrate that you know what the structure IS. I don't want to get to into the weeds on that, but if she did observe other students not being dinged for those small things, then it adds to a clear picture of some sort of bias or retaliation.

Finally, there is the issue of disability accommodation and equitable treatment of other similarly situated students. If they have done things like offered LOA or full year repeats (with the scholarship still active) then they will have a very hard time explaining why this time was handled so differently.

At any rate, those were my impressions. I do want to say, just for clarity, that I notice some accounts that have engaged this conversation have since been restricted. There does not appear to be anyone that is violating TOS in their responses. At most, some of the early contributions had some less than savory racial undertones, but even then, people have a right to speak that way. My hope is that if a moderator here on SDN is in any way tied to the UTSW, that he or she would not allow their affiliation to cause them to unfairly censor contributors.

The poster on page 1 in this thread was banned for actions in other places that had nothing to do with this.

As the staff member who has posted the most here, I haven't left South Carolina for school since undergrad (and was in Virginia, not Texas) so I have absolutely no ties in any way shape or form to UTSW.

 

[O Gurl]

The poster on page 1 in this thread was banned for actions in other places that had nothing to do with this.

As the staff member who has posted the most here, I haven't left South Carolina for school since undergrad (and was in Virginia, not Texas) so I have absolutely no ties in any way shape or form to UTSW.

Thanks, but I also noticed someone on page 2 being "restricted' (not revoked) when I first read through this thread. I believe it was Anesussy.