UTSW complaints (again)

[DrK97]

Thoughts thoughts??

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Thoughts thoughts??

Failing to label a structure right or left resulted in getting that question wrong when I took anatomy 16 years ago.

 

[operaman]

A lot to unpack here. As always, it would be nice to have both sides presented as things tend to look very different when you get the rest of the story.

Key things that stand out to me:

-She apparently forgot/didn't bother to even apply for financial aid consideration at CWRU, her first choice school. Obviously not germain to the primary issues at UTSW, but suggests that lapses in completing required work were occuring well before she matriculated at UTSW

-She seems to misunderstand how exam credits are typically applied. At my school, a 2% "curve" for poor questions was not just a blanket 2% applied to everyone; rather, those questions were tossed out and if you had happened to miss those particular ones, you would get the full curve. If you hadn't missed those questions, you wouldn't. In this way it isn't a traditional "curve" but rather a readjusting of scores after tossing out problematic questions. People that missed all the tossed questions got more points back. Easy.

-It appears that her performance was woefully subpar all along and pretty typical for someone barely passing. Most merit scholars are not hashing out half point differences in scores because they are so far from the passing cutoff that it's a non issue. If she's failing that many courses - looked like 6 or so - it's hard to argue against the actions of the SPC. She focuses on a couple - respiratory and histology - but the letter of dismissal from SPC lists quite a few more and note barely passing the rest.

-I see no problem with schools changing the policies regarding standards for their scholarships or grades or whatever. It's their money and their school and they can run it as they see fit. It would have been good of them to send out some notice. I've seen many policy changes get emailed out - I think my current institution does it every other month - and I just delete the emails, but at least they are making it known. Definitely a bit shady to do it so quietly.

- I think her concerns about the wording changes are moot anyhow. We're basically parsing terminology for different ways of saying "failed" anyhow. If incomplete means you faileld the final, I think it basically means you failed the course anyhow. Ditto for conditional pass or whatever - they all sound like there's a failure in there and it's just a matter of semantics.

All that said, there are some troubling elements in the story:

- if there was really disparate treatment of other students in similar situations, she may indeed have a potential legal case. Even better if she has written records of things like other students getting credit or partial credit for the same answer that she was dinged for. Treating students differently under the rules can lead to a lot of hot water, especially if those students differ among federally protected classes such as race, sex, etc.

- If another merit scholar was allowed to keep their scholarship and repeat the year under similar circumstances, then the school may have a steep climb to show why this girl was treated differently.

- it seems nobody suggested she take a LOA. If that's the case, she may also have a case that they didn't accomodate her GAD adequately. LOAs are fairly standard practice when students struggle, especially when partly driven by an underlying medical condition. Maybe they did suggest it and she balked, but if they didn't present it as an option at all, she might have a case on those grounds as well. I suspect this may be what happened to the other merit scholar who repeated a year - they may have taken an LOA.

ETA: it looks like they did offer her additional academic/professional counseling and assistance which she declined so that probably absolves them on the LOA point.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My read of it shows UTSW as far less nefarious than her story, but there are some key allegations she makes that if true, could put them in troubling legal standing.

 

[SooConfused]

A lot to unpack here. As always, it would be nice to have both sides presented as things tend to look very different when you get the rest of the story.

Key things that stand out to me:

-She apparently forgot/didn't bother to even apply for financial aid consideration at CWRU, her first choice school. Obviously not germain to the primary issues at UTSW, but suggests that lapses in completing required work were occuring well before she matriculated at UTSW

-She seems to misunderstand how exam credits are typically applied. At my school, a 2% "curve" for poor questions was not just a blanket 2% applied to everyone; rather, those questions were tossed out and if you had happened to miss those particular ones, you would get the full curve. If you hadn't missed those questions, you wouldn't. In this way it isn't a traditional "curve" but rather a readjusting of scores after tossing out problematic questions. People that missed all the tossed questions got more points back. Easy.

-It appears that her performance was woefully subpar all along and pretty typical for someone barely passing. Most merit scholars are not hashing out half point differences in scores because they are so far from the passing cutoff that it's a non issue. If she's failing that many courses - looked like 6 or so - it's hard to argue against the actions of the SPC. She focuses on a couple - respiratory and histology - but the letter of dismissal from SPC lists quite a few more and note barely passing the rest.

-I see no problem with schools changing the policies regarding standards for their scholarships or grades or whatever. It's their money and their school and they can run it as they see fit. It would have been good of them to send out some notice. I've seen many policy changes get emailed out - I think my current institution does it every other month - and I just delete the emails, but at least they are making it known. Definitely a bit shady to do it so quietly.

- I think her concerns about the wording changes are moot anyhow. We're basically parsing terminology for different ways of saying "failed" anyhow. If incomplete means you faileld the final, I think it basically means you failed the course anyhow. Ditto for conditional pass or whatever - they all sound like there's a failure in there and it's just a matter of semantics.

All that said, there are some troubling elements in the story:

- if there was really disparate treatment of other students in similar situations, she may indeed have a potential legal case. Even better if she has written records of things like other students getting credit or partial credit for the same answer that she was dinged for. Treating students differently under the rules can lead to a lot of hot water, especially if those students differ among federally protected classes such as race, sex, etc.

- If another merit scholar was allowed to keep their scholarship and repeat the year under similar circumstances, then the school may have a steep climb to show why this girl was treated differently.

- it seems nobody suggested she take a LOA. If that's the case, she may also have a case that they didn't accomodate her GAD adequately. LOAs are fairly standard practice when students struggle, especially when partly driven by an underlying medical condition. Maybe they did suggest it and she balked, but if they didn't present it as an option at all, she might have a case on those grounds as well. I suspect this may be what happened to the other merit scholar who repeated a year - they may have taken an LOA.


It will be interesting to see how this plays out. My read of it shows UTSW as far less nefarious than her story, but there are some key allegations she makes that if true, could put them in troubling legal standing.

Very thorough analysis. I'm surprised you didn't address the outrage over not being allowed to double dip on the scholarship. I've heard of people pocketing outside scholarship money that does not have to run through a school without reporting it, but I've never heard of any school not applying outside money that runs through it, like VA money, to its COA before allocating full ride institutional grants, even merit based ones.

A fundamental misunderstanding of this likely led Ms. Jackson to believe that the school would actually pay her to attend, above and beyond the budgeted COA that was at least partially covered by her VA benefit. I have no doubt that she is totally glossing over the fact that this is probably addressed in detail in the fine print of the scholarship, to your point about only one side being presented. The fact that she knew this would never happen at CWRU (because CWRU grants are strictly need based) is probably why she never submitted CWRU paperwork.

Whatever else is going on, the fact that she is totally oblivious to the fact that she was planning an illegal scam to actually get paid to go to school, above and beyond the school's COA, tells me CWRU dodged a huge bullet here and should probably consider making a small donation to the gofundme.

This whole double dipping thing also undoubtedly rubbed the administration the wrong way, and probably led to an overall lack of patience with respect to continuing to work with her. Lawyering up so early also clearly did not have the desired effect of intimidating the school into submission. Given that lawyers were involved well before the school took its final action, my money is on their having their "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed on this one.

 

[Bwesternn]

A lot to unpack here.

-She apparently forgot/didn't bother to even apply for financial aid consideration at CWRU, her first choice school. Obviously not germain to the primary issues at UTSW, but suggests that lapses in completing required work were occuring well before she matriculated at UTSW

Yeah, I didn't make it past this part - the subliminal entitlement surrounding that request, and the subsequent (very professional) email response from Case Western was chef's kiss.

That being said, the inner cynic tells me this lawsuit will be stuck in litigation far longer than the student can probably afford. Her medical career was severely maimed by the dismissal, and this article, with the copious naming and shaming, will certainly be the nail in the coffin that carries her future in medicine. It's saddening really

I will say that this article supports what every adcom has said countless times - TAKE AN LOA if you have circumstances, personal or familial, that are negatively affecting your performance in school.

 

[operaman]

Very thorough analysis. I'm surprised you didn't address the outrage over not being allowed to double dip on the scholarship. I've heard of people pocketing outside scholarship money that does not have to run through a school without reporting it, but I've never heard of any school not applying outside money that runs through it, like VA money, to its COA before allocating full ride institutional grants, even merit based ones.

A fundamental misunderstanding of this likely led Ms. Jackson to believe that the school would actually pay her to attend, above and beyond the budgeted COA that was at least partially covered by her VA benefit. I have no doubt that she is totally glossing over the fact that this is probably addressed in detail in the fine print of the scholarship, to your point about only one side being presented. The fact that she knew this would never happen at CWRU (because CWRU grants are strictly need based) is probably why she never submitted CWRU paperwork.

Whatever else is going on, the fact that she is totally oblivious to the fact that she was planning an illegal scam to actually get paid to go to school, above and beyond the school's COA, tells me CWRU dodged a huge bullet here and should probably consider making a small donation to the gofundme.

This whole double dipping thing also undoubtedly rubbed the administration the wrong way, and probably led to an overall lack of patience with respect to continuing to work with her. Lawyering up so early also clearly did not have the desired effect of intimidating the school into submission. Given that lawyers were involved well before the school took its final action, my money is on their having their "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed on this one.

Interesting - yeah I kinda glossed over that part. I wasn’t quite sure if she truly thought she could double dip. Sounded more like a a simple misreading of the terms and a lack of common sense. Almost all awards cap out at some predetermined level.

I don’t think this had any bearing on her other issues at the school though. The offices involved are totally different and I doubt there’s much overlap between financial aid staff and preclinical course faculty. I teach some clinical med students now and couldn’t even find the financial aid office on a map!

I’m frankly surprised at a number of elements in this story- her poor performance, her poor self awareness focusing less on why she’s borderline failing and trying to work the system for points back to barely cross the threshold. She focuses on many semantic details that simply don’t matter and glosses over the key point: she failed a LOT of courses in her first year of medical school.

Now personally I think she should have missed the point for not indicating which common carotid she was looking at, but then anyone else should have missed it too. If there was really disparate grading happening then that’s terrible and woefully unfair. I suspect it was just an oversight and she clearly missed plenty of questions on other exams that were multiple choice, so I think it will be a moot point.

I’d be curious how strong her scores were coming in. She doesn’t mention her gpa or mcat, but I assume they were solid enough. Just seems odd for a strong student to struggle so much, and she clearly had the GAD before med school.

It’s a good lesson for future med students though: med school is a pressure cooker and can exacerbate previously well controlled issues. It also mercilessly punishes things like procrastination which I suspect was a big issue for her since she blew off CWRU’s financial aid deadline entirely until emailing asking for mercy two days after it had passed.

I suspect her case will go nowhere, but there are some disparate treatment allegations she raises that could go somewhere if they pan out.

 

[CanIBeAnonymous]

Yeah, I didn't make it past this part - the subliminal entitlement surrounding that request, and the subsequent (very professional) email response from Case Western was chef's kiss.

It's funny, that was my largest takeaway from this article - how well-written CRWU's email was. I was taking notes.

 

[SooConfused]

Interesting - yeah I kinda glossed over that part. I wasn’t quite sure if she truly thought she could double dip. Sounded more like a a simple misreading of the terms and a lack of common sense. Almost all awards cap out at some predetermined level.

I don’t think this had any bearing on her other issues at the school though. The offices involved are totally different and I doubt there’s much overlap between financial aid staff and preclinical course faculty. I teach some clinical med students now and couldn’t even find the financial aid office on a map!

Yeah. I don't know why, but I fixated on this right at the beginning of the story and was anxious to see how it was going to end:

"I was very grateful for UTSW’s offer at the time. Even more so when I confirmed that my merit scholarship would apply concurrently with my veteran’s educational benefit. Yes, essentially, due to my military service and undergraduate performance, I would be paid to go to medical school, which is a dream for many, myself included."

Given the interplay between the scholarship and her academic performance, and the fact that they changed the terms for her to remain eligible to receive the scholarship midstream, I have little doubt that her complaints about the VA money not being refunded to her were known to all involved by the time she was navigating her failures, incompletes and loss of scholarship prior to her dismissal.

Also, for the record, there is an issue with changing terms and conditions related to scholarships post-enrollment. Most people consider such offers a contract, even though it is the institution's money. Changes are usually only applied to future recipients, unless they are in the recipients' favor. It's moot here due to the dismissal, but I think she'd definitely have had a case if they pulled money she would have been eligible to receive under the terms that were presented at the time she accepted their offer of admission.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

What’s the issue?

I can’t really tell besides them maybe changing the criteria. I know on the full tuition scholarship that I received, the criteria are enumerated in pretty clear terms (ie. No course failures, sufficient academic progress, abide by code of standards). It’s basically a contract. Changing the terms of a contract seems unwarranted in a legal sense. From a logical perspective, it kind of makes sense

 

[operaman]

Yeah. I don't know why, but I fixated on this right at the beginning of the story and was anxious to see how it was going to end:

"I was very grateful for UTSW’s offer at the time. Even more so when I confirmed that my merit scholarship would apply concurrently with my veteran’s educational benefit. Yes, essentially, due to my military service and undergraduate performance, I would be paid to go to medical school, which is a dream for many, myself included."

Given the interplay between the scholarship and her academic performance, and the fact that they changed the terms for her to remain eligible to receive the scholarship midstream, I have little doubt that her complaints about the VA money not being refunded to her were known to all involved by the time she was navigating her failures, incompletes and loss of scholarship prior to her dismissal.

Also, for the record, there is an issue with changing terms and conditions related to scholarships post-enrollment. Most people consider such offers a contract, even though it is the institution's money. Changes are usually only applied to future recipients, unless they are in the recipients' favor. It's moot here due to the dismissal, but I think she'd definitely have had a case if they pulled money she would have been eligible to receive under the terms that were presented at the time she accepted their offer of admission.

I'd be interested in the timeline of the scholarship language change and other curriculum changes. It seems to me like there's no difference between "incomplete" and "conditional pass" and "failure" when apparently all pretty much mean the same thing; it just means they're delaying the final mark pending overall curve adjustments if you're close to the cutoff.

According to their letter, she failed both courses and the "incompletes" were just placeholders pending successful remediation. Sounds like they're following their original policy in her case. I note that she did not post their original letter about rescinding her scholarhip, only their response to her appeal.

 

[Lawpy]

Thoughts thoughts??

That SDN will side with UTSW and the student will be harshly condemned. This is no different from the countless dismissal threads on here

I just feel terrible for everyone involved

 

[GoSpursGo]

Clearly, her performance was borderline throughout her time in med school. That said, given the several concrete examples where other students may have been given the benefit of the doubt but she was not, it does give me pause. I doubt strongly that UTSW really cared about the value of their merit scholarship badly enough to expel her, but the idea that a student of color was treated unfairly is very believable at any institution.

I also generally think this is another instance where students who are struggling should consider taking an LOA. It was particularly difficult in her case since she believed it would have an impact on her financial aid.

As always, I wish we had the opposing side of the story.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Go fund me link in the bottom seems suspicious tbh

 

[SooConfused]

Go fund me link in the bottom seems suspicious tbh

How so? The naming and shaming seems legit, so what's suspicious about an enraged expelled med student turning to the interweb to fund litigation against big bad UTSW, as well as replacing lost scholarship and VA money?

 

[Goro]

SDNers are advised to remember that there are always 2 sides to every story. We will never hear UT Southwestern's side, because the lawyers told them to keep their mouths shut.

 

[wysdoc]

She has posted up a lot of information on a public blog platform but I am certain her attorney(s) would not intend all this to be made public during an ongoing litigation.
Most merit scholarships are contingent on meeting academic expectations so she may not prevail here

 

[Lem0nz]

Seriously doubt UTSW went out of their way to change an entire course block and remove all quizzes as a giant ponzi scheme to get her dismissed from medical school. No one at medical school cares that much about an individual person, for good or for ill.

As someone who was on academic probation for failing an exam and borderline failing a class, I suspect her accusations are not correct or grounded totally in reality. I say that because I felt many of the same things she felt and described and accused, but after careful reflection and spending time with other students struggling I realized it didn't matter how I felt. I was on the cusp of failure and the only thing that was going to fix it was to study harder and do better. In retrospect - the school didn't have special feelings toward me, they didn't treat me unfairly, they didn't go out of their way to harm me. Honestly they probably didn't even notice until the final scores were in. Turns out I was just at best an average medical student and medical school is hard. MS3 year was super brutal because I was lazy and entitled was the underlying problem all along. Figured it out some time late PGY-1/early PGY-2 year in residency and turned into a rock star.

I will say my school did very little to help me and didn't seem particularly interested in success or failure. But again, in retrospect, I don't blame them. They win no points for lying and saying I was a great student. I just wasn't. I was like... sort of bad but not overtly terrible and I needed to try harder and do better.

Thankfully, turns out the cure to my laziness was just lack of motivation. Once I got out of medical school and into surgery I actually cared about it and it made life much, much easier.

 

[Med Ed]

I'd be interested in the timeline of the scholarship language change and other curriculum changes. It seems to me like there's no difference between "incomplete" and "conditional pass" and "failure" when apparently all pretty much mean the same thing; it just means they're delaying the final mark pending overall curve adjustments if you're close to the cutoff.

According to their letter, she failed both courses and the "incompletes" were just placeholders pending successful remediation. Sounds like they're following their original policy in her case. I note that she did not post their original letter about rescinding her scholarhip, only their response to her appeal.

In our system an Incomplete that is successfully remediated will show up as a Pass on the transcript. A Fail that is successfully remediated will show up as a Pass (Remediated). Both indicate unsatisfactory performance, both can be addressed by remediation, but the former is obviously preferable.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

This is why LOAs were invented. OP clearly never had command of the material in most of her courses. Always just "almost passing. " Imo, better to take a LOA and re group.

 

[operaman]

This is why LOAs were invented. OP clearly never had command of the material in most of her courses. Always just "almost passing. " Imo, better to take a LOA and re group.

Amen. I feel like this is where the student was woefully let down by her school. And again, maybe they did try and suggest it and she refused. Her story does have one weird part where they advised her not to take some exam and focus on her other courses so maybe they really were trying to help.

But this sure sounds like someone who desperately needed an LOA early on in the fall to get her house in order and come back strong the next year. It’s especially tough for students on the cusp of passing - seems like the LOA would be easier to swallow if you’re nowhere near the cutoff. You get this sense from how often she talks about being within a point of passing.

When I see that, my thought is more that she was many points away from anything resembling mastery of the material. The half points were merely semantics.

 

[emergentmd]

OP had anxiety issues walking into medical school which is never great. OP was a marginal student in not one but many classes. OP continued to be marginal even after remediation. OP failed, I don't care if it was by 1 pt or 50 points. Schools need to set a cut off, OP did not meet the cut off.

Look I was not a great student but still passed all of my classes and if I was marginal in a class, I surely would pass in the summer remediation with an extra 6 wks or so to study the same subject I barely failed.

This is her POV and thus puts her situation in the best light. Even in this best light, I would have dismissed her. When I went to school, and you failed a class, you get to remediate in the summer once. If you failed, oh well.

I hope she learned a big lesson in life even if some of her points are true. #1 life is not fair. #2 Some people get favors while others don't. #3 When there is a cut off, you better meet that cut off or you better hope to get #2 somehow. Go drink and drive, blow .081, and you will get the same charge of DUI as the guy who blew .20. Its not like you can argue that you were barely drunk so its ok. You failed the class barely or not.

Sorry this is not grade school where everyone gets to pass and a ribbon. Welcome to life.

 

[operaman]

OP had anxiety issues walking into medical school which is never great. OP was a marginal student in not one but many classes. OP continued to be marginal even after remediation. OP failed, I don't care if it was by 1 pt or 50 points. Schools need to set a cut off, OP did not meet the cut off.

Look I was not a great student but still passed all of my classes and if I was marginal in a class, I surely would pass in the summer remediation with an extra 6 wks or so to study the same subject I barely failed.

This is her POV and thus puts her situation in the best light. Even in this best light, I would have dismissed her. When I went to school, and you failed a class, you get to remediate in the summer once. If you failed, oh well.

I hope she learned a big lesson in life even if some of her points are true. #1 life is not fair. #2 Some people get favors while others don't. #3 When there is a cut off, you better meet that cut off or you better hope to get #2 somehow. Go drink and drive, blow .081, and you will get the same charge of DUI as the guy who blew .20. Its not like you can argue that you were barely drunk so its ok. You failed the class barely or not.

Sorry this is not grade school where everyone gets to pass and a ribbon. Welcome to life.

I read through her story again and my heart just breaks for her. She’s clearly got a passion for medicine but she managed to self sabotage even before setting foot on UTSW’s campus.

She fails to even apply to her dream school’s financial aid office by the deadline. Then she continually confuses this notion of applying two funding sources (VA and scholarship), each of which cover “cost of attendance” thinking she’s going to get a refund when that’s clearly not how it works. They apply her VA funds to the second semester because Uncle Sam is always a secondary payor after other sources, and her scholarship already covered her eligible expenses so the rest got applied to the spring in advance. Why she can’t see this even now is baffling.

You see all the faculty desperately trying to reach out and help her and she brushes them away. Even the dean of DEI said she was out of her element and tried to give her advice that would have saved her. Rather than follow it, she bashed the dean for advising she not take the anatomy lab final at all because it would have meant she failed that course. Even now it blows my mind she can’t see that the reason for this very good advice was to allow her to pass the other course and only fail one, thereby keeping her scholarship. The other students who were only failing that course were advised to continue and take the exam…because they probably weren’t failing anything else. Instead she ignored the advice and failed both courses. The fact she can’t see something so obvious even now is quite telling.

Then you see email threads where the deans are reaching out trying to help and mentor and she blows them off. She even tells the DEI dean she doesn’t trust her and only wants to communicate in writing! This must have been heart wrenching for the faculty who kept trying to help her while she just continued to dig herself into a hole.

Given these massive misunderstandings, I suspect her allegations of Unfair treatment are likely based on similar misunderstandings. I’m sure the previous merit scholar who repeated and kept the scholarship probably heeded the dean’s advice and was able to bail out and come back strong the next year.

What sadder still is that had she not lawyered up and especially if she hadn’t made this public blog post, I think she could have probably gotten reinstated. I’ve helped a number of other students here over the years in similar circumstances get reinstated and had she not torched every bridge in sight, she probably could have too.

So much of her story stems from a series of misunderstandings and missteps on her part. Where were her mentors and trusted advisors along the way telling her she wasn’t seeing things clearly? Who were the nitwits who listened to her woes and thought lawyering up was the right choice in this case?

If there’s a lesson to be learned for schools from this case, it’s this: provide students with some kind of neutral mentor/advisor they can trust. This may be especially important for students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

A good mentor could have told her she simply misread the VA benefits fine print and nobody was ripping her off. When she thought the DEI dean was out to let her fail, a good advisor could have said “no, she’s telling you to take the failure in a course you can’t possibly pass in order to have a shot at passing the one you still can. She’s trying to save your scholarship.” When she wanted to sue the school they could have shown her that it was mere semantics and she had no case, and that if she wasn’t careful the distraction would lead her to fail even more. They might even have been able to help her take a LOA in the spring when it was clear she was going to fail multiple courses.

Just a sad case all around. And now she’s litigating a case she will inevitably lose. It’s not a good sign when you read only the plaintiff’s side and think that even if everything she says is true, the school hasn’t done anything wrong here. Her only shot is if there really was another student in a similar situation who was treated differently, and those odds are slim.

 

[Med Ed]

A good mentor could have told her she simply misread the VA benefits fine print and nobody was ripping her off. When she thought the DEI dean was out to let her fail, a good advisor could have said “no, she’s telling you to take the failure in a course you can’t possibly pass in order to have a shot at passing the one you still can. She’s trying to save your scholarship.” When she wanted to sue the school they could have shown her that it was mere semantics and she had no case, and that if she wasn’t careful the distraction would lead her to fail even more. They might even have been able to help her take a LOA in the spring when it was clear she was going to fail multiple courses.

It is basically the job of Student Affairs to either provide this advice and mentoring directly or refer the student to someone who can.

There is, however, always a small number of students who appear utterly immune to such efforts, and will systematically ignore good advice. They may even go so far as to demonize the individuals who are offering assistance. Sometimes I suspect there is an underlying personality disorder that is compounded by the stress of the situation, which itself create fertile ground for bad decisions. Other times the student doesn't seem to really want to learn medicine and simply shuts down in a cocoon of defense mechanisms.

I'm not at UTSW and don't know this situation (or former student) firsthand. These are just some general observations.

 

[Goro]

It is basically the job of Student Affairs to either provide this advice and mentoring directly or refer the student to someone who can.

There is, however, always a small number of students who appear utterly immune to such efforts, and will systematically ignore good advice. They may even go so far as to demonize the individuals who are offering assistance. Sometimes I suspect there is an underlying personality disorder that is compounded by the stress of the situation, which itself create fertile ground for bad decisions. Other times the student doesn't seem to really want to learn medicine and simply shuts down in a cocoon of defense mechanisms.

I'm not at UTSW and don't know this situation (or former student) firsthand. These are just some general observations.

At my school, we mentors are counseled to not come out and directly state to the student to take a LOA (or withdraw, for that matter). We're advised to lay out options and let the student make the choice.

And as mentioned above, sometimes the students are living with such deep denial that our advising goes unheeded.

 

[CoolBreezes]

Thoughts thoughts??

The gist of her story seems to be that she was so excellent a candidate that she received merit aid (in addition to being accepted to CWRU) and so her academic failures and subsequent dismissal must be unfair. Yet, as others have pointed out, even in her telling of the story it is apparent that she bears some responsibility for the sad outcome.

I think that she failed to recognize that the transition to medical school is difficult, she failed to honestly assess her performance during the semester, and she failed to avail herself of the resources available to her. I’m sure that she has the talent to succeed in medical school but it appears that she didn’t have the right mindset.

 

[emergentmd]

Maybe I am taking a leap of faith but see this way too often.

Some people, potentially by race/poverty/environment/upbringing/life events, have a victim mentality. Her soliloquy drips with a victim's mentality and this typically never ends well. Every valid point is reasoned with an unreasonable counter point or deflection of blame. Not once did she take any blame when 99% of the med students do fine academically and can navigate student loans/grants/scholarships without issues.

Had a look at her gofund me page. In summary, UTSW recruited me to the school with a full scholarship offer and, upon learning that I had additional VA funding, unlawfully revoked the scholarship and, presumably, reappropriated the funds.

This just reeks of entitlement. UTSW does not have a recruiting office. They wait for applications, give offers, and then gives scholarships. To even say that they recruited you by offering a scholarship just shows her arrogance and thus her failure to accept all of her Faults. What has happened is clearly her fault and deserves this consequence.

 

[operaman]

It is basically the job of Student Affairs to either provide this advice and mentoring directly or refer the student to someone who can.

There is, however, always a small number of students who appear utterly immune to such efforts, and will systematically ignore good advice. They may even go so far as to demonize the individuals who are offering assistance. Sometimes I suspect there is an underlying personality disorder that is compounded by the stress of the situation, which itself create fertile ground for bad decisions. Other times the student doesn't seem to really want to learn medicine and simply shuts down in a cocoon of defense mechanisms.

I'm not at UTSW and don't know this situation (or former student) firsthand. These are just some general observations.

Excellent points.

I am always amazed when students like her demonize their administration. As a neutral observer, I read the email chains she posts and see faculty who are desperate to reach her and save her from herself. She seems to see a vast conspiracy.

There’s probably little that can be done about this, but I wonder if there were a way to pair up students with mentors who aren’t part of the faculty. Maybe these are alumni or faculty at other schools - just someone that at risk students can turn to for what they might see as unbiased advice.

Had I been in a similar situation, I have numerous people in my orbit that I could have called for advice who would have seen the errors I was making and helped me understand scholarships and COA or why it would be a good idea to intentionally fail a course I can’t possibly pass in order to pass the others and keep my scholarship. Everyone in my world would have told me it was insane to lawyer up, that I was so clearly in the wrong and was misreading their policies, and especially to do so early on and risk alienating people even more when she could just wait til summer after passing everything and then have a much stronger case anyhow.

Maybe still a lost cause, but maybe there are some students who would listen to outside voices a bit more.

 

[Goro]

Excellent points.

I am always amazed when students like her demonize their administration. As a neutral observer, I read the email chains she posts and see faculty who are desperate to reach her and save her from herself. She seems to see a vast conspiracy.

There’s probably little that can be done about this, but I wonder if there were a way to pair up students with mentors who aren’t part of the faculty. Maybe these are alumni or faculty at other schools - just someone that at risk students can turn to for what they might see as unbiased advice.

Had I been in a similar situation, I have numerous people in my orbit that I could have called for advice who would have seen the errors I was making and helped me understand scholarships and COA or why it would be a good idea to intentionally fail a course I can’t possibly pass in order to pass the others and keep my scholarship. Everyone in my world would have told me it was insane to lawyer up, that I was so clearly in the wrong and was misreading their policies, and especially to do so early on and risk alienating people even more when she could just wait til summer after passing everything and then have a much stronger case anyhow.

Maybe still a lost cause, but maybe there are some students who would listen to outside voices a bit more.

It is also illustrative in this situation as to how she has self sabotaged herself in terms of possible reinvention.

I know if cases where people have been dismissed, or withdrew from a medical school while failing, and then entered a special Masters program. Upon doing well in the program they were able to go back to Medical school.

But she has shown herself to be such a loose cannon, that I predict no SMP will take a chance on her

 

[SooConfused]

It is also illustrative in this situation as to how she has self sabotaged herself in terms of possible reinvention.

I know if cases where people have been dismissed, or withdrew from a medical school while failing, and then entered a special Masters program. Upon doing well in the program they were able to go back to Medical school.

But she has shown herself to be such a loose cannon, that I predict no SMP will take a chance on her

Even more importantly, the public naming and shaming, plus the threatened or actual litigation, on top of the sub par academic performance, practically guarantees that no med school would ever want to go near her, let alone SMPs. This goes back to my tongue in cheek comment in my first post above about CWRU dodging a major bullet when she chose to try to double dip at UTSW rather than go with her first choice. Borderline academics would be the least of her issues now.

 

[Lawpy]

Tbh i don’t even know what the ex student is trying to accomplish here because that article and her Twitter tirade (and the ongoing litigation) pretty much burned whatever bridges remaining she had with UTSW, and no other school wants to come anywhere near her. She sank her own career

 

[Bwesternn]

Had a look at her gofund me page. In summary, UTSW recruited me to the school with a full scholarship offer and, upon learning that I had additional VA funding, unlawfully revoked the scholarship and, presumably, reappropriated the funds.

I'm not one to kick someone while they're down.. This is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. The student will never fulfill her dreams of becoming a physician, and UTSW (regardless of whether or not this is warranted, and also regardless of your opinions of the school) will have to deal with this nightmare.

That being said, I love that only $230/ 25,000 has been raised - can't believe it's even that much.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Tbh i don’t even know what the ex student is trying to accomplish here because that article and her Twitter tirade (and the ongoing litigation) pretty much burned whatever bridges remaining she had with UTSW, and no other school wants to come anywhere near her. She sank her own career

Didn’t she already get kicked out?

 

[operaman]

Didn’t she already get kicked out?

She did.

I've helped a few students on here get reinstated though even after a dismissal, and there are plenty of other stories of people who do the same. You really just need to have been a normal human being and have a good relationship with the school, and then articulate why you failed, what's different, and usually offer some kind of proof. This student could have easily stayed enrolled or been readmitted had she accepted the help offered and embraced the faculty as colleagues rather than opponents out to get her. Lawyering up certainly didn't endear her to anyone either. The emails she posted show the faculty desperately trying to help her, so I think they would have been amenable to reinstatement had she done things differently.

Instead she's going to try to litigate the loss of her scholarship when she clearly violated even the original terms she posted. She failed two classes. Period. Because they graciously allowed her to take "incomplete" in both classes pending remediation in the summer does not obviate the fact she failed 2 fall courses and violated her scholarship agreement initially. She's hung up on the "incomplete vs failed" distinction which is her case is a distinction without a difference given UTSW's grading system. I'm sure UTSW will submit her complaint almost verbatim as their response and ask for dismissal of the case.

 

[Lawpy]

She did.

I've helped a few students on here get reinstated though even after a dismissal, and there are plenty of other stories of people who do the same. You really just need to have been a normal human being and have a good relationship with the school, and then articulate why you failed, what's different, and usually offer some kind of proof. This student could have easily stayed enrolled or been readmitted had she accepted the help offered and embraced the faculty as colleagues rather than opponents out to get her. Lawyering up certainly didn't endear her to anyone either. The emails she posted show the faculty desperately trying to help her, so I think they would have been amenable to reinstatement had she done things differently.

Instead she's going to try to litigate the loss of her scholarship when she clearly violated even the original terms she posted. She failed two classes. Period. Because they graciously allowed her to take "incomplete" in both classes pending remediation in the summer does not obviate the fact she failed 2 fall courses and violated her scholarship agreement initially. She's hung up on the "incomplete vs failed" distinction which is her case is a distinction without a difference given UTSW's grading system. I'm sure UTSW will submit her complaint almost verbatim as their response and ask for dismissal of the case.

It’s pretty unfortunate that she sank her own career like that. The sad fact if she actually worked with UTSW in a calm, professional manner rather than launching the typical tirade, she would’ve still been in school. A tragedy

 

[operaman]

There's a comment on her blog now purportedly from one of her classmates which basically confirms my suppositions listed above about how things really went down, why the DEI dean advised she not take the final, etc. Seems it all boils down to a few huge misunderstandings that just seemed to compile and drove her deeper into a hole. Very normal pre-clinical stuff that she seemed to interpret in the most nefarious and paranoid way.

If she had just googled "combining GI bill and merit scholarships" she would have found plenty of info explaining that GI benefits can only be used to pay school related expenses up to the cost of attendance. If you have a scholarship that is also earmarked to cover those fees, you don't get the extra back unless it's a scholarship that doesn't specify what it can cover. Even their letter says it covers the cost of attendance, so there's no way she would get any kind of refund. Truth is she would have been better off not even using her VA benefits given the full ride and she could have saved them to use for a future degree or for her family.

Again - where were this poor girl's mentors?!

 

[xffan624]

There's a comment on her blog now purportedly from one of her classmates which basically confirms my suppositions listed above about how things really went down, why the DEI dean advised she not take the final, etc. Seems it all boils down to a few huge misunderstandings that just seemed to compile and drove her deeper into a hole. Very normal pre-clinical stuff that she seemed to interpret in the most nefarious and paranoid way.

If she had just googled "combining GI bill and merit scholarships" she would have found plenty of info explaining that GI benefits can only be used to pay school related expenses up to the cost of attendance. If you have a scholarship that is also earmarked to cover those fees, you don't get the extra back unless it's a scholarship that doesn't specify what it can cover. Even their letter says it covers the cost of attendance, so there's no way she would get any kind of refund. Truth is she would have been better off not even using her VA benefits given the full ride and she could have saved them to use for a future degree or for her family.

Again - where were this poor girl's mentors?!

Or used them for residency. There's no tuition to pay for of course, but the monthly stipend makes for a pretty comfortable salary.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There's a comment on her blog now purportedly from one of her classmates which basically confirms my suppositions listed above about how things really went down, why the DEI dean advised she not take the final, etc. Seems it all boils down to a few huge misunderstandings that just seemed to compile and drove her deeper into a hole. Very normal pre-clinical stuff that she seemed to interpret in the most nefarious and paranoid way.

If she had just googled "combining GI bill and merit scholarships" she would have found plenty of info explaining that GI benefits can only be used to pay school related expenses up to the cost of attendance. If you have a scholarship that is also earmarked to cover those fees, you don't get the extra back unless it's a scholarship that doesn't specify what it can cover. Even their letter says it covers the cost of attendance, so there's no way she would get any kind of refund. Truth is she would have been better off not even using her VA benefits given the full ride and she could have saved them to use for a future degree or for her family.

Again - where were this poor girl's mentors?!

Granted its been a few years, but I struggled a bit in my first year (dad died suddenly a month or so before I started, didn't handle it well). I don't recall the school ever reaching out and offering assistance of guidance. Obvious UTSW did, but its not a universal thing - or at least it hasn't always been.

 

[jstwannagraduaaate!!!]

UTSW is a reputable school, doubt they're in the wrong (I do not go to utsw)

 

[Billiam95]

Sounds like a person who never should have been admitted in the first place and no level of mentorship would have broken through her self-delusions. You can only lead a horse to water.

 

[deleted1064759]

These types of cases seemingly come up every other day now.

 

[operaman]

Someone messaged me to point out that she had responded to my point about combining GI bill and scholarships by suggesting that she was receiving aid under the vocational rehab program which has different rules.

So I googled it.

And yet again there in black and white it says that any combination of Voc rehab money and scholarships cannot exceed your cost of attendance. Basically the same rule as the GI bill.
M

 

[Hzreio]

What happened? The link is broken

 

[Lost in Translation]

I’m so glad SDN has come the same conclusion I have while reading her story. Throughout the entire article was I thinking “this is a lot of words to say you’re a lackluster student.”

Also, why the bit at the end to bring up her race when there is no significant mention of it anywhere in the main body of her article?

Failing to label a structure right or left resulted in getting that question wrong when I took anatomy 16 years ago.

If surgeons need to mark laterality then students should be required to as well.

I always do so in my notes it’s a brain dead addition.

 

[candbgirl]

What happened? The link is broken

I just tried it and it works.

 

[texasvandy]

I am surprised that someone who was in airforce for 7 years is unaware of how paperwork works since military is nothing but forms. The experience level is much higher than a standard student of 22-23 entering med school being ignorant of all the rules.

I suspect they would have allowed her to repeat if she were so inclined and was willing to forget the scholarship. I have heard 2 Asians left rather than repeat year 1 under similar circumstances in the recent past (they were part of the UTD/UTSW program). Although it can be chalked up as racism I am betting UTSW can prove it is purely academic by providing information about people from other races being dismissed or asked to repeat.

I am aware of a DO student who was similarly dismissed a few years ago but currently pursuing an MD in the Caribbean and already doing rotations in Florida. So there is always DO to be pursued if she is keen on becoming a doctor.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I am surprised that someone who was in airforce for 7 years is unaware of how paperwork works since military is nothing but forms. The experience level is much higher than a standard student of 22-23 entering med school being ignorant of all the rules.

I suspect they would have allowed her to repeat if she were so inclined and was willing to forget the scholarship. I have heard 2 Asians left rather than repeat year 1 under similar circumstances in the recent past (they were part of the UTD/UTSW program). Although it can be chalked up as racism I am betting UTSW can prove it is purely academic by providing information about people from other races being dismissed or asked to repeat.

I am aware of a DO student who was similarly dismissed a few years ago but currently pursuing an MD in the Caribbean and already doing rotations in Florida. So there is always DO to be pursued if she is keen on becoming a doctor.

HIGHLY doubt any DO or any medical school will take her after this… i believe you have to put that you attended a medical school before on aacomas and explain what happened…she’s burned some bridges and the way she approached this situation is appalling…


Also about failing to label left from right and loosing half a point… she would have realized in third year(or as a resident). when she wrote notes how much laterality matters..I.e we don’t just say the patient presented with hand pain… we have to say right or left or bilateral etc..

 

[anesussy]

So basically they failed her because she put "common carotid artery" instead of "LEFT common carotid artery"?

I would be pissed as well, unless they made it VERY clear that you needed to indicate the laterality in order to get credit.

Also those of you arguing "life's not fair." What the hell are you on about? Ok, so let's just not fix anything ever or do anything right ever because life isn't fair. Did your patient OD on opioids? "Hey kid, I could give you naloxone, but I won't. Life's not fair."

And some of you are acting like UTSW gave this poor girl every opportunity to remediate. Yeah right. A truly fair remediation would have been to bring her back into the anatomy lab and say, "Your exam score was borderline, partly because you didn't receive credit on this question. You didn't say whether it was the right or left common carotid artery. Could you do that for us now?"

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So basically they failed her because she put "common carotid artery" instead of "LEFT common carotid artery"?

I would be pissed as well, unless they made it VERY clear that you needed to indicate the laterality in order to get credit.

Also those of you arguing "life's not fair." What the hell are you on about? Ok, so let's just not fix anything ever or do anything right ever because life isn't fair. Did your patient OD on opioids? "Hey kid, I could give you naloxone, but I won't. Life's not fair."

And some of you are acting like UTSW gave this poor girl every opportunity to remediate. Yeah right. A truly fair remediation would have been to bring her back into the anatomy lab and say, "Your exam score was borderline, partly because you didn't receive credit on this question. You didn't say whether it was the right or left common carotid artery. Could you do that for us now?"

Because laterality has always mattered in anatomy. I find it very unlikely that no one had ever mentioned that point to her.

 

[anesussy]

Because laterality has always mattered in anatomy. I find it very unlikely that no one had ever mentioned that point to her.

Yes, I understand it's important. I'm not arguing against that. But it's also not that big of a deal at this juncture. The goal of med school is (or at least should be) to educate. Just educate her, give her the opportunity to clarify, and move on.

You really think she didn't know that was the LEFT common carotid artery? Come on. It's obvious. If you fail someone for that, then you're really just looking for reasons to fail them imo.

 

[operaman]

Yes, I understand it's important. I'm not arguing against that. But it's also not that big of a deal at this juncture. The goal of med school is (or at least should be) to educate. Just educate her, give her the opportunity to clarify, and move on.

You really think she didn't know that was the LEFT common carotid artery? Come on. It's obvious. If you fail someone for that, then you're really just looking for reasons to fail them imo.

They didn’t fail her for that. They failed her for the other 30-40% of the questions she missed. Her anatomy grade was so low that her advisor recommended she not even bother studying for it anymore because there was no mathematically possible way for her to pass. They did that for everyone in the class with such a low score so they would only fail the one class and could simply remediate in the summer exactly as you suggest they should have done.

Unfortunately she blew off the good advice and ended up failing multiple classes. So many classes that she was dismissed entirely. The school bent over backwards trying to help her but she blew them off and went her own way.