Medical Should I apply with Minimal Clinical Experience, but in Progress?

[GoSpursGo]

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Hi,
I'm really trying to get a gauge if my current plan for applying to med school is feasible.

Essentially, I only decided on med school after graduating college, so don't have clinical experience or shadowing in the US. When I graduated I moved to Africa to work in the operations side of a new hospital, where I've been since October

That's stalled out because construction delays, so I'm planning to spend time in the US starting now, till the end of the year at least. My original plan was to take another gap year, get clinical experience in the US, go back to Africa, work for six months, and do a 1 year MPH before med school. But I've been advised by the doctors I work with that I have a very good shot applying this year, although they all applied a while back, when admissions were certainly less competitive.

If I get work as a scribe starting in the next month, and wait to apply until end of June so I get at least 100-200 hours, and can speak to my experience in an American hospital, do you think it is worth trying to apply this cycle, especially because by the time I write secondaries, and interview I'll have a lot more experience under my belt?

For reference my applicant summary is below. I feel confident in the other aspects of my application, but I understand how big of a shot in the foot it is to not have much clinical experience

1. 3.8 cGPA and 3.8 sGPA Triple major (2 Bio, 1 Econ)
2. MCAT: 526 (132/130/132/132)
3. Resident: CA
4. White
5. T25 Undergrad
6. Clinical Experience: None currently, hoping to have maybe 200 hours scribing by applying in late June.
7. ~2000 hours research in 2 labs, 2 non-first author pubs (non-experimental), 1 non-first author abstract
8. Shadowing: 30 hours, in Africa, Family Medicine. I am setting up shadowing in the US, likely in surgery.
9. Around 700 hours tutoring at a prison, with leadership roles as a tutor-trainer. 2500 hours working to open a new hospital in rural Africa.
10. No non-addressed other ECs
11. No awards

I'm ok with taking the additional year, but am getting differing views. People on pre-med forums, free advisors, etc. tend to lean towards "you're not competitive without consistent US Clinical Experience" whereas doctors in my real life say basically taking another year might help a little, but is adding seriously diminished returns.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate you doing this for me, and so many other people.

Do you have ANY clinical experience through your work in the hospital? I generally think that USCE is more relevant to IMGs applying to residency, but clinical experience is kind of clinical experience for Med school.

I tend to think you would find a landing spot with your very strong stats and unique life experiences. It’s not like you are totally naive to healthcare. You would also certainly be stronger in a year, so honestly I think you would be fine either way

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks, that's helpful. Ultimately, if I find a position doing scribing in the US I'll probably apply this year.
I have shadowing here, and I've helped a lot with clinical operations (rolling out a new EMR, etc.) but nothing hands on with patients. In retrospect I could have pushed harder to do work like taking blood pressures, etc. but I was aware I wouldn't actually be useful there (we have plenty of good nurses) so didn't want to take up space, especially because my presence can sometimes cause distractions among patients.

If it doesn't work out, I'll take the year.

Sigh... documented hours is how you will be measured, not promised or future hours. Would a later application in August hurt you as much? Maybe, but given your metrics, you might have a shot. Maybe a late interview. You need good networking and a solid mission fit.

I don't know the math well enough to how how you get from zero to 200 hours of scribing. You could submit in a July and August and you won't be late.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

You have such a great app and I think you could get into a great school with a little work on the clinic hours.a

 

[MusicDOc124]

I'd work hard to find some clinical experience sooner than later, and see if you can get >200, but I'd still apply this year in your case. You have other unique experiences to draw from which includes working in a hospital setting albeit non-clinical - but you still have some exposure that way and interactions with physicians, nurses, etc.

Your numbers will likely get you in the door to a few places at least. Worst case is you end up taking an extra year which will cost some money, and you already have a plan in place for what you'd do during the year, which would include more clinical experience too. Would cost a bit of money for apps, but the return for the risk is much higher.

TLDR: Work hard to get more hours, but still apply this year.

I'm not adcom, so I can't speak for anyone but myself and thus not for any particular school or anything either. But if I was interviewing in some capacity, I'd appreciate candidates with more life and unique experiences over people checking too many cookie-cutter boxes. But that's just my personal opinion, though I hope it extends beyond just me.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'd work hard to find some clinical experience sooner than later, and see if you can get >200, but I'd still apply this year in your case. You have other unique experiences to draw from which includes working in a hospital setting albeit non-clinical - but you still have some exposure that way and interactions with physicians, nurses, etc.

Your numbers will likely get you in the door to a few places at least. Worst case is you end up taking an extra year which will cost some money, and you already have a plan in place for what you'd do during the year, which would include more clinical experience too. Would cost a bit of money for apps, but the return for the risk is much higher.

TLDR: Work hard to get more hours, but still apply this year.

I'm not adcom, so I can't speak for anyone but myself and thus not for any particular school or anything either. But if I was interviewing in some capacity, I'd appreciate candidates with more life and unique experiences over people checking too many cookie-cutter boxes. But that's just my personal opinion, though I hope it extends beyond just me.

I more or less agree with this. You’re not a high stats/empty ECs person. Your ECs are meaningful and demonstrate you have a commitment to medicine even if they aren’t “clinical” in the strictest sense. I think you will get in if you apply this year, and would be competitive at basically any school, though you could be a complete shoe in if you can get some clinical hours

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Thanks everyone! I wasn't expecting so many replies. This is encouraging, now it's just a matter of waiting to see what my clinical hours will look like in 2 months.

There's some unknown probability distribution that's a function of time waited + clinical hours, which I'm going to have to balance.

My arbitrary cut off was apply at 200 hours, or July 1, whichever comes first. It's hard to find exact data on when is too late, but it seems like from what people are saying, maybe 200 hours or July 21 or something like that makes more sense.

I'm focusing on mission fit for global health + underserved populations, and will probably apply selectively (~20 schools) , because I'd rather be somewhere I can keep doing that work, and I'm OK taking the year if needed.

One issue I've been warned about though, is yield protection, that with my stats I may be an automatic reject from "low" ranked schools, which has left me with a list that seems top heavy to me. Do you have any thoughts on schools which might be a better fit / I might have a better shot at? (preferably those connected to a research university)

Thanks again everyone. This brought a lot of much needed confirmation to my plan

UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
Harvard
Stanford University
University of Chicago
Columbia University
Cornell
Yale
Dartmouth
Johns Hopkins
Boston University School of Medicine
Brown
Emory
USC
Georgetown
University of Miami
SUNY Downstate

You should still have some lower ranked schools. Yes you are super competitive but so is everyone applying to Johns Hopkins.