Should I even bother applying a fourth time?

[Goro]

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No, because they won't believe you for a second. The fact that you applied shows you're interested. Stop thinking that OP's experience is universal; it's not.


EDIT: I suggest apply to med schools and the SMP at the same time. That way if you get shut out in the former (unlikely if you apply to DO schools) the latter will then help you.

Do you think if I talk to administrators at a school where my high MCAT is unusually high for them and promise them I'll attend if accepted, they'll be more likely to interview me? I know I messed up my GPA but was hoping to counter that by a high MCAT. Will doing a on year SMP to get a 3.5 gpa (if I get all A) worth it in your opinion Goro?


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[GrapesofRath]

Ive taken both the DAT and MCAT. If Im being blunt a 91st percetile score on the DAT is not what I would consider a good predictor at all of scoring in the 90th+ percentile on the MCAT. The testing population that takes the DAT and MCAT are much much different. The level of difficulty of the DAT(which is honestly on par with SAT/SAT Subject Tests) pales in comparison to the MCAT. If we're going to say anything about one test being "predictive" of another which is at best a faulty line of reasoning, I would say a 91st percentile DAT indicates it's more likely someone wont hit 90th percentile on the MCAT than not.

This doesnt mean a 91st percentile DAT score precludes you from success on the MCAT in and of itself. It's just this idea "Im banking on being a good standardized test taker my whole life and a good DAT score" to carry me is a bunch of nonsense. Even a 99th+ percentile score on the DAT wouldnt be a great predictor of MCAT success: they test two completely different types of skill sets.

 

[EverStriving]

I'm aware , hence preparing for even my best case scenario (since I won't know my score till September and by then it'll be to late too apply to an SMP). If the SMP is unnecessary I have a year long full time research internship lined up through my mentor who is an academic liver transplant surgeon at the main hospital in Tampa which is connected to USF med school. My assumption is based on a lifelong record of good test taking skills and on studying a third of the time normal DAT takers did and got a 91%tile on the DAT (was not actually interested in dental school) and now I'm serious about the MCAT so I'm gonna study more than the average MCAT taker so hopefully I'll be in the top 10% for it.

Based on your ugrad GPA and your own attestation that you were lazy in college, I would say an SMP (or at least a post-bacc) would be in your best interest, regardless of your MCAT score. If you do well, it would help to alleviate fears that you might continue to be lazy in medical school.

 

[magicdock]

Ive taken both the DAT and MCAT. If Im being blunt a 91st percetile score on the DAT is not what I would consider a good predictor at all of scoring in the 90th+ percentile on the MCAT. The testing population that takes the DAT and MCAT are much much different. The level of difficulty of the DAT(which is honestly on par with SAT/SAT Subject Tests) pales in comparison to the MCAT. If we're going to say anything about one test being "predictive" of another which is at best a faulty line of reasoning, I would say a 91st percentile DAT indicates it's more likely someone wont hit 90th percentile on the MCAT than not.

This doesnt mean a 91st percentile DAT score precludes you from success on the MCAT in and of itself. It's just this idea "Im banking on being a good standardized test taker my whole life and a good DAT score" to carry me is a bunch of nonsense. Even a 99th+ percentile score on the DAT wouldnt be a great predictor of MCAT success: they test two completely different types of skill sets. For the DAT, yes, studying "more" clearly correlates with success. The returns on studying "more" for the MCAT are clearly rather diminishing: it's a skills/reading comprehension based test, not a fact based one. Youll see more what I mean if you still dont buy this once you are close to taking the MCAT/actually take it.

That's all fine and dandy but what're you going to do when I come back in sept with a 91+ MCAT?


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[efle]

That's all fine and dandy but what're you going to do when I come back in sept with a 91+ MCAT?

Oh boy, gonna have to worry about interviews too

 

[magicdock]

I actually honestly am enjoying studying for the MCAT. I started about a month ago about 30 hrs a week on top of part time school. 75% done with content review first round and my test is in 4+ months so I'm just making a ton of anki cards. Did some practice sections scoring in the 70% average so far


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[magicdock]

Oh boy, gonna have to worry about interviews too

This is why I don't post on here. Somehow our online persona translates to our front stage self


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[EverStriving]

This is why I don't post on here. Somehow our online persona translates to our front stage self

Anonymity is revealing. I would think medical school interviewers are very good at sniffing out a false front, from all that experience they have.

 

[efle]

I actually honestly am enjoying studying for the MCAT. I started about a month ago about 30 hrs a week on top of part time school. 75% done with content review first round and my test is in 4+ months so I'm just making a ton of anki cards. Did some practice sections scoring in the 70% average so far

Is there something to prevent you testing sooner, if you get fully prepped? It's a big help to apply early.

At the least you should be able to take the official practice exam soon and use that to guide your SMP vs lab job decision.

This is why I don't post on here. Somehow our online persona translates to our front stage self

It should be easier to ignore stuff online.

 

[magicdock]

Is there something to prevent you testing sooner, if you get fully prepped? It's a big help to apply early.

At the least you should be able to take the official practice exam soon and use that to guide your SMP vs lab job decision.


It should be easier to ignore stuff online.

Well considering the intimate details I just put above I could very well be identified by admissions or something and your comment could be the fire for some sdn sheep mentality verbal abuse on my interview skills and personality which would make me look bad.... Libel?? Or is it slander. Either way I don't find shame in anything I've said, it's logical to me and I thought there's a good chance I might be in his situation in the future. I rarely take any advice on here seriously anyways but am always open to new ideas...

Oh and thanks yeah the practice exam should be a good indicator

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[DokterMom]

"Dear Mom and Dad,

I love you both very much, but have decided I need to move away and build a life of my own. As you know, for the past few years I've done what I can to try to help the family, but it hasn't been enough and we are all still in need. I've come to realize that I am only one person; and with my current qualifications and abilities, I will never be able to do enough, no matter how much I sacrifice. So now I must go elsewhere and begin to help myself. Then, maybe, I'll be able to realize my dreams of becoming a physician, and possibly then, be able to contribute enough to make a real difference.

Sadly, this will mean a loss of contact for a while, even though I will think of you often. It would tear me up inside to hear about all the problems you are all facing when sacrificing my life's savings again could 'plug the dam' again. But I can't keep sacrificing my life's savings if I am ever to achieve my dreams.

So I'm moving to Texas where the ample job opportunities, low cost of living, and large number of medical schools make achieving my dreams more realistic. I will send you a postcard when I get there to let you know I am safe and well, and will let you know when I've been accepted.

Love,
Spinach"

 

[doc05]

Cut your losses. Don't bother re-applying. 3 failed application cycles is enough. you won't get in on another try.

I'm sorry you're broke, but suggesting that this is the reason you haven't gotten in is absurd.

put that master's to good use...get a job and move on with your life.

 

[precisiongraphic]

Fully half of Montana's applicants matriculate into MD schools.
Wyoming is almost as good at 47%.
Alaska enjoys a 39% matriculation and ID has 38%.
These are all higher odds compared to CA at 37%.
Of the states listed, only WA residents have (slightly) lower odds of matriculation at 36%.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf

Well, that just proved my point, as I'm assuming that spinach is in WA as I am.

Looking at those students who don't get in anywhere - broken down by region - the West region has the worst percentage when compared to the northeast, south and central.

 

[gyngyn]

Well, that just proved my point, as I'm assuming that spinach is in WA as I am.

Looking at those students who don't get in anywhere - broken down by region - the West region has the worst percentage when compared to the northeast, south and central.

WA, ID and CA are equivalent (in outcomes, if not applicant stats).
The applicants in the other states mentioned (MT, WY, AK) do better despite having no IS school.
The West is the most challenging region for applicants.

 

[futuremdforme]

"Dear Mom and Dad,

I love you both very much, but have decided I need to move away and build a life of my own. As you know, for the past few years I've done what I can to try to help the family, but it hasn't been enough and we are all still in need. I've come to realize that I am only one person; and with my current qualifications and abilities, I will never be able to do enough, no matter how much I sacrifice. So now I must go elsewhere and begin to help myself. Then, maybe, I'll be able to realize my dreams of becoming a physician, and possibly then, be able to contribute enough to make a real difference.

Sadly, this will mean a loss of contact for a while, even though I will think of you often. It would tear me up inside to hear about all the problems you are all facing when sacrificing my life's savings again could 'plug the dam' again. But I can't keep sacrificing my life's savings if I am ever to achieve my dreams.

So I'm moving to Texas where the ample job opportunities, low cost of living, and large number of medical schools make achieving my dreams more realistic. I will send you a postcard when I get there to let you know I am safe and well, and will let you know when I've been accepted.

Love,
Spinach"

Love this!

 

[allantois]

 

[Goro]

Magic thinking is never a good strategy.

That's all fine and dandy but what're you going to do when I come back in sept with a 91+ MCAT?


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[frosted_flake]

Exactly. I plan to overcome every hardship that I have faced thus far and will be a hell of a lot better off because I was able to make it on my own. Family is great, but when they pull you down with them, sometimes you just have to cut your losses.
I personally will only speak to about 5 or so family members once I move out of the state. The others (i.e. malignant ones, money suckers, etc.) I plan to cut ties with immediately.

 

[familyaerospace]

Cut your losses. Don't bother re-applying. 3 failed application cycles is enough. you won't get in on another try.

I'm sorry you're broke, but suggesting that this is the reason you haven't gotten in is absurd.

put that master's to good use...get a job and move on with your life.

I am living proof of the fact that someone CAN get in on the fourth try.

I got in on my fourth round and I applied to only three schools because of cost. Rounds 1-3 were all on FAP. Round four was not but I still could not afford it. There is one kid at my school that got in either on his 7th or 8th time.

 

[Lannister]

The children of the 1% didn't chose to be born rich, just like the children of the poor didn't chose to be born poor. So to sit here and act like they've committed some horrible crime against you by simply having the good fortune to be wealthy is just ridiculous. Yes, you got dealt a ****ty hand in life. It sucks and it's unfair. But sitting around and b******* about it is not going to help you achieve anything. Get over it. Stop worrying about what the children of the rich are doing and focus on what you need to do to get into medical school.

 

[sharkbyte]

The children of the 1% didn't chose to be born rich, just like the children of the poor didn't chose to be born poor. So to sit here and act like they've committed some horrible crime against you by simply having the good fortune to be wealthy is just ridiculous. Yes, you got dealt a ****ty hand in life. It sucks and it's unfair. But sitting around and b******* about it is not going to help you achieve anything. Get over it. Stop worrying about what the children of the rich are doing and focus on what you need to do to get into medical school.

This x 1000. Complaining and whining about these things/people does you no favors.

OP, I know this is not the main point of this thread but....even IF there are people fortunate enough to go on 4-5 mission trips because of daddy's wallet, why should you be bashing them? C'mon now. They're not hurting anyone; they're just living their lives their own way.

Still, I do feel bad for what you have had to go through and I do wish you the best in the future. Just put your head down and do whatever is necessary to fulfill your goals.

 

[sharkbyte]

I am living proof of the fact that someone CAN get in on the fourth try.

I got in on my fourth round and I applied to only three schools because of cost. Rounds 1-3 were all on FAP. Round four was not but I still could not afford it. There is one kid at my school that got in either on his 7th or 8th time.

@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn Just out of sheer curiosity, have any of you seen applications from people who are applying for the 5th+ time?

 

[Goro]

Never at my school nor on SDN

@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn Just out of sheer curiosity, have any of you seen applications from people who are applying for the 5th+ time?

 

[Lawpy]

Cut your losses. Don't bother re-applying. 3 failed application cycles is enough. you won't get in on another try.

I'm sorry you're broke, but suggesting that this is the reason you haven't gotten in is absurd.

put that master's to good use...get a job and move on with your life.

I am living proof of the fact that someone CAN get in on the fourth try.

I got in on my fourth round and I applied to only three schools because of cost. Rounds 1-3 were all on FAP. Round four was not but I still could not afford it. There is one kid at my school that got in either on his 7th or 8th time.

Of course, exceptions always exist, but 3x failed application cycles regardless of any reason is pretty bad. I believe @gyngyn and others have said that many schools actually begin closing doors to applicants who failed to get in two cycles, much less three.

It's a serious issue, which is why adcoms crucially emphasize to apply once at your optimal performance. Do it once and do it well.

 

[Ad2b]

have any of you seen applications from people who are applying for the 5th+ time?

Not on SDN but I did have a follower on my blog who matriculated into Tulane after her 6th or 7th attempt (not sure if all were at Tulane or not). She ended up in RFP; matriculation would have been August 2008 so last year, she would have been licensed some place rural last year.

On her blog, she had a running tally of those who had led the non-trad life into med school including vignettes about what their stories were, how many MCAT attempts, how many application cycles, etc. It was a LENGTHY list. But everyone on it, eventually got in (or rather, only the ones that got in were mentioned??)...

The blog is now blocked to the public. As is, "The Long Road to Medical School" an MD/PhD at U Penn... epi and something else ... but if you have access to that one, you can get access to the other.

Or just listen to @Goro 😀

 

[123456123456]

If you want to be a physician then you should find the funds to apply. I would apply to both MD and DO if I were you

 

[Petrichor1]

Cut your losses. Don't bother re-applying. 3 failed application cycles is enough. you won't get in on another try.

I'm sorry you're broke, but suggesting that this is the reason you haven't gotten in is absurd.

put that master's to good use...get a job and move on with your life.

actually I think I partially agree with your statement. You need to get a job but like doctormom put it excellently in her sample letter, get a job in Texas. Why not? if you don't want to do SMP, this will get you MONEY, RESIDENCY, and HUGE ADVANTAGE, TIME to study for MCAT again. DO IT. I know you want to be a physician, you need to not give up here!

 

[235009]

The abbreviated story:

3.4 GPA
40 MCAT
BS in Animal Bio
MS in Biochem
2 pubs (1 complete, 1 in press)
A couple hundred hours working in animal labs (swine/macaques/ferrets/etc)
Worked as CNA for a few months
Shadowing: yes.
Other standard checkbox activities
Self-employed as a Ochem tutor the past year.



Had 3 bad cycles already, for the following reasons:
1. Serious illness which required hospitalization and 2+ trips to the OR (as a patient! What fun!). Decided to put off applications until I could stand upright.
2. Broke as hell. Sent a few primaries, sent a couple secondaries. Spent most of my time trying to find a source of funds so I could apply next year.
3. Had a source of funding who delayed sending funds for primaries until September, then, upon seeing the cost, decided to not help at all. Still managed to complete a few. Got a couple interviews, all of which were either completely bland or of the "stress" variety (there's a good way to waste a couple grand!).



Most schools will only accept an MCAT for 3 years, though some will accept one a fourth year. Here is a list of 18 potential schools posted by another user on this site (one which I will check against the MSAR if I get to that point):

Case Western, Emory, Albert Einstein, University of Rochester, SLU, Boston University, Tufts, Hofstra, UT-Galveston, Loyola, Tufts, Boca Raton, Commonwealth, Wake Forest, Albany Medical College, Missouri-Columbia, Missouri-Kansas City, Chicago Medical School



So, the question is this: If I can somehow find the money to go through this hell again (or convince FAP to open up), should I even bother applying again? Is there anything to be gained (aside from thousands of dollars of debt and endless heartache)?

Or should I cut my losses and do [other career here]?

This could've all been avoided with a credit card. There are even ones that have 0% intro rates for 12-18 months which you could immediately pay off once you get your med school loans.

You also seem to have a deficiency in street smarts and hustle. How many love letters did you write to schools that you think were passing you up because your score was too high? Is "self employed organic chemistry tutor" your only job or were you flipping burgers or working at a temp agency or a lab or doing one of a dozen other things to actually earn the money rather than depending on someone else to just give it to you?

Also what do you mean the interviews were bland? Did you show interest in the schools after and really fight to get a spot?

If you had posted this before your first application cycling I would've advised getting a credit card and doing a full court press but now that schools might pass you up because your MCAT score is too old I would advise you to go get a real job, retake the MCAT and apply for real in a couple of years.


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[Affiche]

I actually hate this. I much prefer Carl Jung's , ''I am not what has happened to me. I am what I choose to become.''


And no, I'm not too hard on the OP. He **** talks the wealthy, he **** talks the poor (''those leeches on welfare''), and yet he has the audacity to ask for sympathy for his own situation when he's not even working full time? Time to grow up.

 

[gyngyn]

@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn Just out of sheer curiosity, have any of you seen applications from people who are applying for the 5th+ time?

Yes. My favorite just kept applying to the same schools.The only thing she changed was her race or ethnicity.
The saddest one took the MCAT 13 times.

 

[Goro]

Why is it that all the outliers of unbelievable app behavior end up applying to gyngyn's school??? Is this a CA thing?

Yes. My favorite just kept applying to the same schools.The only thing she changed was her race or ethnicity.
The saddest one took the MCAT 13 times.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Yes. My favorite just kept applying to the same schools.The only thing she changed was her race or ethnicity.
.

Title of the 2nd Reapp Personal Statement: How I Magically Found My Family had Native American, African Roots All at the Same Time in the Past Six Months

Title of the 3rd Reapp Personal Statement: Actually it Turns out the Native American Roots Werent True But the Fact Im Willing to Admit This Shows How Ive Grown as a Person. Oh by the way, I Just Found Out I had Puerto Rican Roots Last Month Also.

 

[gyngyn]

Title of the 2nd Reapp Personal Statement: How I Magically Found My Family had Native American, African Roots All at the Same Time in the Past Six Months

Title of the 3rd Reapp Personal Statement: Actually it Turns out the Native American Roots Werent True But the Fact Im Willing to Admit This Shows How Ive Grown as a Person. Oh by the way, I Just Found Out I had Puerto Rican Roots Last Month Also.

You'd be surprised how close this is to the real thing!

 

[gyngyn]

Why is it that all the outliers of unbelievable app behavior end up applying to gyngyn's school??? Is this a CA thing?

I'm pretty sure they apply outside of CA too!

 

[familyaerospace]

Why is it that all the outliers of unbelievable app behavior end up applying to gyngyn's school??? Is this a CA thing?

Hey, I didn't apply to gyngyn's school! But then, I wasn't a California resident.

Oh and that weird dude that applied whatever it was, was waitlisted every single year at MCG. Then he got in. The guy would be a 3rd year now.

 

[heebeejeebies]

Put on your big boy pants, get a job, make some money, get a credit card, reapply.

You have 3 months until next cycle. You can easily find $2000 working during this time = ~8-10 primaries and secondaries. Use the card to travel to interviews.

I worked on a night shift demolition crew to help pay for school/apps. I empathize with your situation, sympathize... I do not.