Should I even bother applying a fourth time?

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A 40 MCAT is not the same as a 3.95 GPA. A 40 MCAT is standardized in ways that a GPA is not. So I think the 40 MCAT is much more impressive than a sky high GPA. It can be readily compared to every other candidate's score in a fair way.

That said, if the MCAT is expired in a large majority of schools--then why not retake? Maybe you won't get a 99.9 percentile score again, but I'm sure you could get in the 90+ percentile range with a few months of studying. How hard can psych or sociology be, honestly. That'll allow you to apply super broadly to DO as well.
 
I'm struggling to understand why in 3 years you couldn't make enough money for applications?
Like... what have you been actually doing in the past 3 years?
Why do you not qualify for FAP?
Why don't you take out loans?
He already said he didn't qualify for FAP because his mom is just above the cutoff. They count your parents' info even if you are married with a family. And I'm going to venture a guess that he couldn't save up for applications because the jobs you get with a bachelor's degree these days just barely pay the bills, unless you're an engineer or HYPSM grad.

@Spinach Dip I think you absolutely need to go to medical school; do NOT give up! However, at this point I think you may need to do a few things to make your application stronger and I think you need to save up so that you can apply very broadly and end up with options, rather than submitting another half-hearted and/or half-financed application. Think of how many schools you could have applied to in one cycle if you didn't apply two of those years! I was in a similar financial situation and I was patient and saved up for a few years so I could apply broadly, and it all worked out in my favor. Don't rush an application just to ride that 40- you're obviously insanely bright and can pull off a similarly amazing score, and you can tighten up other aspects of your application in the meantime. You deserve to not only get into med school, but to a school that will fit you!
 
bachelor's degree

He knows enough Chemistry and Physics to be a tutor. Those can easily make between 20-40$/hour. (wyzant, tutor.com); hell tutor pre-med students in getting a MCAT of 40 - that - you can at least get 15-25$/hr. Work for Kaplan.

Even working at McDonalds should get you enough for the primary and secondary applications - especially for 3 years.

Still... loans? Credit cards?

I just can't relate. I worked 35 hrs a week during undergrad and made about 2k per month - I lived in a 2 bed room apartment with 4 people. You can make it work. I get the first 2 years (illness... and you were unprepared the second year) but... 3rd year? Again?

I love spinach - he's worked hard for his MCAT and I hope he gets into med school for sure but either he steps it up and finds a way to make money and make ends meet or give up - because apparently his financial supports failed him.
 
The abbreviated story:

3.4 GPA
40 MCAT
BS in Animal Bio
MS in Biochem
2 pubs (1 complete, 1 in press)
A couple hundred hours working in animal labs (swine/macaques/ferrets/etc)
Worked as CNA for a few months
Shadowing: yes.
Other standard checkbox activities
Self-employed as a Ochem tutor the past year.



Had 3 bad cycles already, for the following reasons:
1. Serious illness which required hospitalization and 2+ trips to the OR (as a patient! What fun!). Decided to put off applications until I could stand upright.
2. Broke as hell. Sent a few primaries, sent a couple secondaries. Spent most of my time trying to find a source of funds so I could apply next year.
3. Had a source of funding who delayed sending funds for primaries until September, then, upon seeing the cost, decided to not help at all. Still managed to complete a few. Got a couple interviews, all of which were either completely bland or of the "stress" variety (there's a good way to waste a couple grand!).



Most schools will only accept an MCAT for 3 years, though some will accept one a fourth year. Here is a list of 18 potential schools posted by another user on this site (one which I will check against the MSAR if I get to that point):

Case Western, Emory, Albert Einstein, University of Rochester, SLU, Boston University, Tufts, Hofstra, UT-Galveston, Loyola, Tufts, Boca Raton, Commonwealth, Wake Forest, Albany Medical College, Missouri-Columbia, Missouri-Kansas City, Chicago Medical School



So, the question is this: If I can somehow find the money to go through this hell again (or convince FAP to open up), should I even bother applying again? Is there anything to be gained (aside from thousands of dollars of debt and endless heartache)?

Or should I cut my losses and do [other career here]?
Apply as DO, I honestly think it would significantly help your chances.
 
Im going to be that jerk that says no to the Go Fund me page. And it hurts me to say this because I am currently using his method of preparing for the MCAT and would love to give him money. But I think for the sake of this site we shouldnt endorse people soliciting for money no matter how cool or helpful that person is. I think thats opening Pandora box
 
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Maybe OP could sell in the MCATclassifieds section a official copy of his method to MCAT success and those empathetic to his situation (myself including) can purchase it. Which seems better than openly asking for money via a go found me
 
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Which seems better than openly asking for money

I don't mind donating... But I'm not going to donate to someone who's not pulling their weight.

I *almost* got onto paypal and was going to donate 100$ to him - but then I thought about it... I'm in med school... I'm in my second year... (I'm STILL working during DEDICATED study period (which is stupid in itself) - while in med school I'm still pulling in 1k/month to cover my expenses 600 rent, 300 food, 100 coffee)...

and then I thought... why the hell am I going to give up my coffee allowance (that I worked my BUTT off for) to help someone who doesn't work... :/ Sry spinach - I was about to help you out but backed out because I don't see why I (or anyone) have to help someone who doesn't help themselves.
 
He knows enough Chemistry and Physics to be a tutor. Those can easily make between 20-40$/hour. (wyzant, tutor.com); hell tutor pre-med students in getting a MCAT of 40 - that - you can at least get 15-25$/hr. Work for Kaplan.

Even working at McDonalds should get you enough for the primary and secondary applications - especially for 3 years.

Still... loans? Credit cards?

I just can't relate. I worked 35 hrs a week during undergrad and made about 2k per month - I lived in a 2 bed room apartment with 4 people. You can make it work. I get the first 2 years (illness... and you were unprepared the second year) but... 3rd year? Again?

I love spinach - he's worked hard for his MCAT and I hope he gets into med school for sure but either he steps it up and finds a way to make money and make ends meet or give up - because apparently his financial supports failed him.
It's okay if you can't relate- not everyone has choices that are as simple as putting several thousand dollars on a credit card or taking out loans. I have no idea what his financial situation is, but it took me a few years to save up for my application cycle. That's why my suggestion was to save up and wait until he is ready to make the best possible application.
 
It's okay if you can't relate- not everyone has choices that are as simple as putting several thousand dollars on a credit card or taking out loans.

All I need is a small loan of a million dollars. 🙁



As for what I've been doing recently, along with tutoring so I can pay for rent and food and electricity, I've been helping a relative (I think I referred to her as "Auntie B" before) repair an old house so she can sell it. (I've spent the last week cleaning rat crap out of the basement and replacing the insulation they shredded.) In theory, the sale of this property was supposed to fund my applications last cycle...when it went unsold, it was supposed to pay for this coming cycle (in recognition of the hundreds of hours I've put in). Then, within this past week, Auntie B informed me that she hasn't paid the rent for so long that even when she does sell the house, there'll probably be nothing left for me.

I seriously should have quit this project months ago, but I was enticed by the possibility of being able to apply to a reasonable (by SDN standards) number of schools.

Oh well, at least I have another EC I can write about some day in the distant future.



It's not like I'm playing League of Legends 10 hours a day and spending all my cash on Hearthstone packs. I am doing things....they're just not yielding the thousands of dollars in disposable income it is going to cost to apply broadly.
 
He knows enough Chemistry and Physics to be a tutor. Those can easily make between 20-40$/hour. (wyzant, tutor.com); hell tutor pre-med students in getting a MCAT of 40 - that - you can at least get 15-25$/hr. Work for Kaplan.

Even working at McDonalds should get you enough for the primary and secondary applications - especially for 3 years.

Still... loans? Credit cards?

I just can't relate. I worked 35 hrs a week during undergrad and made about 2k per month - I lived in a 2 bed room apartment with 4 people. You can make it work. I get the first 2 years (illness... and you were unprepared the second year) but... 3rd year? Again?

I love spinach - he's worked hard for his MCAT and I hope he gets into med school for sure but either he steps it up and finds a way to make money and make ends meet or give up - because apparently his financial supports failed him.

It's okay if you can't relate. After all, we have no idea knowing his personal circumstances. Perhaps a number of factors, including medical bills (is he insured?), has made it difficult for him financially.
 
All I need is a small loan of a million dollars. 🙁



As for what I've been doing recently, along with tutoring so I can pay for rent and food and electricity, I've been helping a relative (I think I referred to her as "Auntie B" before) repair an old house so she can sell it. (I've spent the last week cleaning rat crap out of the basement and replacing the insulation they shredded.) In theory, the sale of this property was supposed to fund my applications last cycle...when it went unsold, it was supposed to pay for this coming cycle (in recognition of the hundreds of hours I've put in). Then, within this past week, Auntie B informed me that she hasn't paid the rent for so long that even when she does sell the house, there'll probably be nothing left for me.

I seriously should have quit this project months ago, but I was enticed by the possibility of being able to apply to a reasonable (by SDN standards) number of schools.

Oh well, at least I have another EC I can write about some day in the distant future.



It's not like I'm playing League of Legends 10 hours a day and spending all my cash on Hearthstone packs. I am doing things....they're just not yielding the thousands of dollars in disposable income it is going to cost to apply broadly.
It's a really good argument for limitations on the number of applications, isn't it? I've seen ADCOMs here say secondaries could cost nothing or next to nothing if applicants were choosing such a huge number of schools because money isn't a factor. I know that even without submitting more than half of my secondaries (I got lucky with my top choice) I spent a huge percentage of my family's annual income on this cycle.
 
OP, if I were in your situation, I would honestly take a step back, take a deep breath, and just fully analyze the situation. Come up with a plan over the next 2-3 years to save up money, live as frugally as possible, and then make up a list of MD and DO schools to apply to. If you are too busy with things like family obligations (like you said about helping the aunt), stop them at once and find a stable source of income.

You're going to have to retake the MCAT. Since you've already taken it and scored well, you can do it again. It'll cost you a few hundred bucks, but you already have a tried and true method for scoring well without the need for a prep course. That's doable, even though it might feel psychologically burdensome.

Don't let it keep you down if you really do want to become a physician. If you can reassess everything and save up enough on your own (you've already tried to get family to help, but they were of no use), it'll just prove that you're tough as nails and determined to realize your goals. You'll have plenty of experiences that make you stand out. You can talk about your hardships and how you overcame them (issues with health, finances, etc.). Since you are/will be considered a disadvantaged applicant, you can potentially tie up your experiences with hardship with your personal statement quite nicely and make a compelling case for why you should be admitted.

Just one extra thing, though. I've noticed that you have made a few threads regarding how you feel that the entire application process is biased towards the wealthy. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder, and it's best to just let it go and accept things for what they are. Many people (myself included) have/have had issues financing things such as education and applications. Having a chip on your shoulder is something that others can pick up on, and it can only hurt you.
 
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It's a really good argument for limitations on the number of applications, isn't it? I've seen ADCOMs here say secondaries could cost nothing or next to nothing if applicants were choosing such a huge number of schools because money isn't a factor. I know that even without submitting more than half of my secondaries (I got lucky with my top choice) I spent a huge percentage of my family's annual income on this cycle.

My fix (which I posted a while ago) was to allow all applicants to apply to 10 schools for a single low fee (like $100), but after that prices increase dramatically.

In this way, those struck by poverty can still apply to a reasonable number of schools without emptying their entire savings, while those who want to apply to 42 (and have the rich parent who can back them) can still do so.
 
Dippie:

If it were me, I wouldn't apply more than one time and definitely not more than two times.

However, it doesn't sound like you gave yourself even a fighting chance for one application cycle. I find this ironic, tragic even, given that you found the time make 3,000 posts on this site. I'd say that you should re-apply one more time assuming you don't have to re-take the MCAT.

Go all DO, and put maybe 5 MDs in there.

If you do have to re-take the MCAT, I'd say you get off SDN and focus on what you want to do next and focus all of your effort on that. Keep in mind two things:
  1. It's hard to walk away from anything you put too much effort into. If you re-take the MCAT and get a good score, what's to say you don't end up re-applying 2 - 3x more time to capitalize on that score.
  2. Each additional app cycle requires additional invested effort to prove yourself. If you end up matriculating, that won't stop. Be wary about entering medical school depleted and ending up in Family Medicine because you're too tired to deal with the additonal BS that is medical school. Unless of course, you actually want to do Family Medicine / outpatient IM.
 
It's not like I'm playing League of Legends 10 hours a day and spending all my cash on Hearthstone packs. I am doing things....they're just not yielding the thousands of dollars in disposable income it is going to cost to apply broadly.

I understand you're not a slacker, but so many of your problems could be solved with getting a full-time job. I know there's a lot of societal variables at play and as you've said, "the system" favors the wealthy, but bottom line: you need an income.

It might make you lose access to that amazing MCAT score, but if you got a 40 once, you'll be able to get an impressive score again. If it were me, I wouldn't be applying to medical schools, I'd be applying to every job opening in my area-- everything from things that use your major to tutoring to Starbucks to bagging groceries. Make money for a year-- with a full-time job plus some tutoring money, you'll be able to afford the repeat MCAT if necessary as well as an application cycle. And as others have said, people might be more inclined to donate/help you out if you could demonstrate you're making a solid effort on the financial end as well.
 
You could also use your CNA credentials to work a job and gain valuable clinical experience at the same time. Knock out two birds with one stone.

The pay might not be that great, but it's probably a little bit more than Starbucks or bagging groceries.
 
Do you tutor full time? If not, have you looked at how to get more clients? Or charge more if you're booked solid? Or take a second (consistent) job like common for recent grads or college students (barista, waiter, lab grunt). Or pursued tutoring with an established company (Kaplan, NextStep, etc) or local institution (my local CC is always looking for tutors, universities, etc). Substitute teaching is flexible, relatively easy, and doable with a bachelors (I think...). In my area you can sub for up to 40 days/year or so (at >$100/day) before you need to worry about teaching license stuff.

I don't know how your other stuff looks in your app at this point (aged and ended ECs? Etc) but I think you could either scramble for cash, work 60 hour weeks, or get a credit card to fund the first part if you did want to apply. You'd have to give it your all though, and other obligations would need to be limited or left. Sometimes we need to be selfish to get all this stuff done... Comedic really.

Wish you luck...
 
I seriously should have quit this project months ago.

Okay, I'm out on that comment alone (not that it matters).

SD, I am a strong believe in that IF you do something good for someone out of the just being good, good will come back to you ten-fold. But if you only help others with the interest of "what's in it for me" things often don't go so well.

I cannot count how many people I've helped in my life without 1 thought of what I will get in return because what I DO get ... is self satisfaction. And that is worth >>>>>> than anything else.

And eventually, karma seems to take care of me.

Many people have told you to step back, regroup, work for a few years. You are refusing and instead of looking at a solid decision that is very likely to help you in the future, you are looking at how you feel screwed over, etc.

Best of luck to you.
 
Ditto this.

I have to say to this get it out of my system. So many of you are transfixed by that 40 MCAT, moth-like to flame. A 40 score does not entitle one to go to med school. Period. It's part of a package.

From what I remember about Spinach's posts, he has a ton of ECs that are more appropriate for a pre-veterinary candidate, not a med school candidate. He has a discordant GPA/MCAT profile, which won't be a problem at my school, but it might be to a good school like gyngyn's. He has CNA experience, but I don't know how many hours. He also has a checklist mentality to ECs and I'll bet that it's showing in interviews. The people I typically interview are rather passionate about their ECs, especially the clinical stuff. SD's lack of success on the interview trail hint at interview skills being an issue.

That said, is till think SD should take one more crack at the DO schools I mentioned.

Schools practice yield protection for a good reason. That having been said. And I say this as someone who applied fairly successfully with a 3.4/40+...

A 40 on your MCAT is just one number. It doesn't make you a good candidate by itself. In the same way that in a vacuum, a 3.9+ GPA doesn't mean a ton, the MCAT is one variable in a complicated equation. It is probably one of the largest variables, but it isn't the end all be all. If you are lacking in other areas of your application, you are far less likely to be successful in your application process.

The reality is, that of those that got a 40+, if they had a 3.8+ GPA, 93% got in. a 3.4-3.6 77% got in. Scores are incredibly important, but lacking in multiple other categories will certainly make going where you want to go much more difficult.
 
Your number one priority needs to be getting a stable source of income so you can help yourself. At the risk of sounding like a cold bitch, there's no reason you shouldn't have secured a full time job with a master's degree and enough time to go through 3 failed cycles. I'm sorry, but you should have been pouring your heart and soul into a job hunt so you so you can secure full time employment.

Tutoring o-chem was something I did for about 6 months after graduation to get by. I knew it was only going to be temporary and I had my eye on securing a full-time job the entire 6 months. Eventually it came, and I only had a bachelor's. I understand the disadvantages to being poor, having been homeless myself, but you're not going to catch a break by working part-time and complaining about the system.

I agree with a previous poster that your profile screams "smart but lazy", as you have a great score for the MCAT but nothing to show that you're a dedicated, hard worker. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's the picture your profile paints. I really do feel for you and I hope your next cycle is a successful one, but I hope you realize that there is more you could be doing to make that happen.
 
I am fully willing to go to DO schools, but:

1. Not sure if any of them accept a 4-y.o. MCAT. (Will research this)

2. I have noticed a trend where the lower-ranked a school I apply to, the less they seem interested in me. It's as if a 40 MCAT screams to low-ranked schools (and my state school) "I DON'T REALLY WANT TO GO TO YOUR SCHOOL AND AM SENDING YOU AN APP ONLY BECAUSE I NEED A SAFETY IN CASE I CAN'T GET INTO A GOOD SCHOOL." Meanwhile, higher-ranked schools will look at my GPA and the less-than-average checkbox activities and pass my MCAT off as a fluke or something.

Seriously I should have scored a 35 on the MCAT so my app would at least be consistent, without one stat that stands out like a beacon.

No medical school is going to look at your mcat score and think "wow this guy is way too smart, let's reject because we want our grads to be comfortably mediocre." And your fixation about rankings isn't helping things.
 
I agree with the others about finding some source of income. Find any job. I think there's this huge fixation on SDN that you need to do something clinical or research related during your gap years and honestly I don't really agree with it. I agree with it in cases where an applicant's ECs are lacking in those areas. Otherwise, just do something productive and you'll be fine.

For you though, the #1 priority is finding a job. Don't worry about what exactly it is. Just find something that pays you. If it's something health care or research related, then great. All the better. But even if it's a minimum-wage job or something in retail or hospitality, it's still going to keep you busy and, more importantly, provide you with money that you can use to apply to a wide range of schools, pay for interview expenses and possibly retake the MCAT if need be.

I'm not really sure I'm in as big of a financial hole as you are, but I did lose one of my parents (the major income-earner) and finances have been tough for me too. After graduating in May, I moved back home. During the summer, I worked as an algebra teacher at a math camp. This allowed me to pay for my primary applications and save up money. Since September, I have been working as a test prep tutor for a local company.

I charged all the major interview expenditures (airfare, hotel, more expensive transportation) to my credit card and consistently paid it off with money from my paycheck. I used my debit card for cheaper expenses such as food and cheaper forms of transportation. I also saved money by finding the absolute cheapest flights, even if they had terrible itineraries, and I stayed with a student host at 4 of my 5 interviews. My mom didn't have to pay a dime for any of this, so I felt happy about that as well.

There's nothing glamorous about teaching math and tutoring when other applicants are doing fancy clinical research or scribing, but it allowed me to pay for my application expenses, save up some money, and it didn't affect my ability to receive interviews and an acceptance.

Good luck!

EDIT: I wanted to add one more thing. I've noticed that in many of your posts, you complain a LOT about your current situation and complain about people with rich parents or money to finance their applications or other things like that. Forget about that stuff. There's only so much wallowing in self-pity that you can do before you start to waste time. I understand that your situation is very difficult and I'm sorry about that, but you need to make the best of it and honestly stop complaining.
 
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Having looked at this a little more I'll say a couple things

I'll start off by saying life has dealt you a rather s***ty hand in a number of regards. No way around it. Youve had to face an uphill battle that would make many, even successful people, crumble long ago. We all hopes it all works out for you, you achieve sucess in what you hope for, and your MCAT resource guide has helped tons and tons of people and is one of the single most influential posts youll find on this site in the past several years.

Having said all this there a couple things Ill mention and really Im just expanding on other peoples points at most.

1) Your app cycle strategy hasnt been sound at all. You've made the same mistake all three times you applied to medical school.
a) Not accounting for circumstances you were facing at the time.
b) Not planning out a way to have enough funds to pay for medical school and relying on things that could easily fall through.
c) Not recognizing what's at stake: that is that this is an application to a professional school, the outcome of which will drastically affect your life plans and trajectory. Not treating it as such and giving yourself a real shot even on round 3 and making the same mistakes a 3rd time, well regardless of who you are or what circumstances you are in, that just doesnt come across particularly favorably.

As for your approach in terms of doing what's best for your chances/future others have talked about how you can do more to fund yourself.

It's one thing to make these mistakes once, particularly when you had severe health problems your first app cycle. But to keep making these same mistakes again and not correct or even recognize them, that regardless of who you are or the circumstances you face or the background you are living in, just doesnt reflect well. When somebody just keeps reapplying again and again, year after year, without picking up on their mistakes, that doesnt highlight characteristics that are necessairly ideal for a career in medicine. In fact these arent too far from characteristics some evaluators might hope get screened out at their med school.

Ultimately Im not really saying that much else that anyody else is saying and I wouldnt have posted this otherwise. If you want to know why I am posting take a look at a thread you created 5 months ago
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-to-not-get-into-med-school-with-a-40-mcat.1166754/

Let's call this what it was: a pity party. The thing is I didnt have a problem with it then ,we are all entitled to a little pity and freedom to vent when life deals us a bad hand. But this was on October 21st. Today is March 26th. And what we're seeing now is much of the same we saw from you back then with the "I wish my MCAT was a 35 not a 40" "Lower schools dont seem interested in me because my MCAT is too high" "the system is unfair" threads" the "Im trying to do things but they just arent working" type stuff. Nothing has really changed in your perspective. Look at the very nature of the thread and it's title. It's "Should I give up?" not "What can I do to get over the final hurdle" particularly when my stats are so much higher than average for at least DO schools. Your perspective really is a huge part of where change comes from.

So overall the concern isnt necessairly "can you get into medical school?". Let's be blunt: your stats are way way way above average for DO programs, if you apply to a reasonable number youll get plenty of IIs and you are very likely to get into one.

But the issues I described above of time management, of not recognizing failures in strategy, the characteristics in someone that lead to continuous pity parties, and not making the same mistakes amongst many other things dont just go away, particularly when you start medical school. They just get highlighted and exposed more and more. So I would say even if you can get into a DO school this year, perhaps it might just be best to sit back and spend a couple years working, taking some time off, re-evaluating what youve done, and coming up with a concrete plan. It's the type of thing that will pay dividends enormously for the rest of your life. Good luck.
 
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Let's call this what it was: a pity party. The thing is I didnt have a problem with it then ,we are all entitled to a little pity and freedom to vent when life deals us a bad hand. But this was on October 21st. Today is March 26th. And what Im seeing now is much of the same I saw back then with the "I wish my MCAT was a 35 not a 40" "the system is unfair threads" the "Im trying to do things but they just arent working type stuff". Nothing has really changed in your perspective. Look at the very nature of the thread and it's title. It's "Should I give up?" not "What can I do to get in" particularly when my stats are so much higher than average for at least DO schools. Your perspective really a huge part of where change comes from.

This really is the takeaway message... not only in this thread but really much of preallo in general. Well said.
 
Spinach -
I think I know what state you're in and i'd guess you're not the only 3.4-3.5/40+ student that that school turned down. Look at their acceptance table - they'd rather have 22-26MCAT with that same gpa than 39-45MCAT. I think they react badly to that high MCAT/low gpa for some unknown reason. (and they may not like their own graduates much either, if that is you too.) So, to summarize, you're in a state with only one med school and a biased and limited one at at that imo. What Grapo is saying above may be true but if you were in-state in a state with more than one school, you would have been admitted. But time to start fresh.


You once mentioned moving to Texas or some other more advantageous state. I think that's an option to seriously consider - move there now, get a job that pays $$$, live cheaply, be instate for the 2017-2018 cycle. Otherwise you might take one more year to improve your app, earn extra money and try a cycle after waiting a year and also apply DO as your last shot.
 
Is there a school that would be high yield to apply early decision to?
 
1) Tell Auntie B that, even though you really want to help her, you need to focus on yourself and your own career right now, and so won't be able to continue spending time on the house. She'll understand if she loves you.
2) With a master's you should be able to get a full-time research job that pays decently well. Continue to tutor on the side for the extra income.
3) If needed, find a living arrangement that helps you save more money. Get a cheaper apartment, roommates, etc.
4) Use savings from the above to complete a proper cycle.

Forget about how the system is unfair. Yes, you've had a lot of bad things happen to you, and we all sympathize. But you have a clear path out of your predicament (see above). Take it so you can stop feeling sorry for yourself already.

It would help to adopt the mentality of our very wise fellow human being Mr. Churchill. Don't just hang around in that personal hell of yours, man.

winston-churchill-statesman-if-youre-going-through-hell-keep.jpg
 
I think OP is in MA.

Some of you perhaps (affiche) are being unnecessarily hard on spinach. Have a little humility. You may have overcome obstacles by sheer hard work and dedication but that does not mean that youre 100% responsible for your own success – good fortune and serendipity (such as which state you live in) play a part.

Spinach is NOT from MA – from the post that Grapes noted above he clearly states that he is from a rural area of a PNW state that only has one MD school, which means he is from Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska or Oregon. Oregon only has one MD. UWash is the only school for Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska and is inadequate –terribly hard to get into. I believe that Idaho residents have a few dedicated spots at UUtah but that’s it. Utah is very unfriendly to out of staters as is Oregon, and we all know about California.

Picture it: If you live in Pennsylvania, or Massachusetts, you can take a train or a bus and be at one of 15 med schools in less than a day. If you wanted to go to Michigan or Pennsylvania from Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, you would have to spend days on the bus or pay huge airfare and you’re still out-of-state. And the distances are huge - it's 2000, 3000 miles. Impossible to get there in a beater car. Compared to other states, I think Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska have worse odds than even California.

Anyway, yes @spinachdip may had made some errors but let’s be constructive in our criticisms.
 
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Some of you perhaps (affiche) are being unnecessarily hard on spinach. Have a little humility. You may have overcome obstacles by sheer hard work and dedication but that does not mean that youre 100% responsible for your own success – good fortune and serendipity (such as which state you live in) play a part.

Spinach is NOT from MA – from the post that Grapes noted above he clearly states that he is from a rural area of a PNW state that only has one MD school, which means he is from Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska or Oregon. Oregon only has one MD. UWash is the only school for Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska and is inadequate –terribly hard to get into. I believe that Idaho residents have a few dedicated spots at UUtah but that’s it. Utah is very unfriendly to out of staters as is Oregon, and we all know about California.

Picture it: If you live in Pennsylvania, or Massachusetts, you can take a train or a bus and be at one of 15 med schools in less than a day. If you wanted to go to Michigan or Pennsylvania from Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska, you would have to spend days on the bus or pay huge airfare and you’re still out-of-state – it's 2000, 3000 miles. Impossible to get there in a beater car. Compared to other states, I think Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska have worse odds than even California.

Anyway, yes @spinachdip may had made some errors but let’s be constructive in our criticisms.
The criticism in this thread has been constructive. He has been advised by multiple posters (including Affiche) to improve his financial situation for the sake of his next app cycle. Obviously, his chances of gaining an acceptance will improve substantially if he has the resources to apply to more schools.
 
The following post is long, and is broken into sections by horizontal lines.


Having looked at this a little more I'll say a couple things

<snip for size>

But the issues I described above of time management, of not recognizing failures in strategy, the characteristics in someone that lead to continuous pity parties, and not making the same mistakes amongst many other things dont just go away, particularly when you start medical school. They just get highlighted and exposed more and more. So I would say even if you can get into a DO school this year, perhaps it might just be best to sit back and spend a couple years working, taking some time off, re-evaluating what youve done, and coming up with a concrete plan. It's the type of thing that will pay dividends enormously for the rest of your life. Good luck.


I appreciate this post, which might come as a surprise for some.

Why do I appreciate it? Well, it has neither my father's "You'll never amount to anything" dingus-ish-ness, nor my mother's "Why don't you go talk to the dean at HMS and explain your situation? I'm sure he'll listen" bubbly-ness. Thanks for keeping it real.

_____


And I apologize if I have made myself out to be an ass. I DO have a problem with the children of 1%ers who get hand-me-down SUVs which are practically new and sweet-sixteen implants and nose jobs. For them, a major life-changing event is getting a B+ in Biostatistics. I've been on the other side of the economic spectrum where "life changing" includes that day my father took me aside and said "I lost some money at the casino last weekend. I need you to take on extra shifts so your mom doesn't find out." When asked how much, he says, "my entire paycheck." And, a couple days later, going to open a new bank account he doesn't know about so he can no longer use my income to pay off his maxed out credit cards. (And before you ask...Yes, this actually happened.)

When I was in the hospital a few years ago, I had the option of applying for disability. Yes, I could have become one of those lazy leeches on society who sits around watching soaps and marking off the days until my next government check. I turned it down because I have a dream of doing something else. I dream of someday achieving something GOOD with my life. But I feel like my life is a multi-decade trainwreck that I cannot escape. The latest piece of this disaster (and what led to this thread) was Auntie B looking at me covered in rat crap and shredded insulation and other basement effluvia and saying, essentially, "by the way, I can't pay you what I promised...Actually I can't pay you anything at all for the past 10 months of work...but here's a cold can of pepsi for your time."

I spent a couple thousand on apps this year. (Primaries + Secondaries + Flights + blah blah blah.) That amount of money could keep me in rent, food, and utilities for half a year. I was graced with interviews--in one of these, the interviewer straight up berated me for working at a horse rescue years ago (the horror!) and questioned my research with a DVM (as if I would have turned down that research opportunity because "I should only do research with MDs" or something? This was my first pub, do you really expect me to be choosy who I work with?), then concluded the interview 10 minutes in by straight up telling me I would never be a doctor. This was followed by months of silence (so I suppose I'm not technically rejected...yet...right?).

It makes me wonder why I even bothered.

_____


Yes, I am depressed.

I am depressed because I am legit putting everything I have into this game, yet am LOSING to kids who are a decade younger than me and have been coached in what activities to do from their first day of highschool and have gone on 7 medical mission trips (all curtosy of dad's wallet) and who think running mascara is an event worthy of mention in their PS. (Don't worry, I advised her to remove that line.) Meanwhile, I was doomed to start at CC and went to my cheapest possible in-state college largely because I sprained my knee pitching knuckleballs and didn't even know what the SAT was until the week before we had it. My mother wanted me to go to college and get a good job. My father wanted me to get student loans so I could pay off his bills.

I am depressed because I HAD plans to pay for apps the past two years, each of which were canceled by various family members who are great at making promises and trash at following through with them.

_____


I am taking a break from this site. I apologize to everyone who will miss me, but I need to. I can't say if I will be back in a month or a year.

I don't want to turn this entire site into people pleading for help and posting links to their donation sites. However, I also realize that my greatest hope my be held by the same pleading others might be encouraged to do.

Therefore, I will remove the following line within a couple days. Do not send an email to the account below as I read it maybe once a year. If you really want to contact me, sending me a message on this site will notify me via the email I actually use.

If you are driven to donate to my cause, my paypal is: [removed]

_____


That's all I have to say for now.

Thanks for everything.

God bless.



~Spinach_Dip
 
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@Spinach Dip, even if $10,000 were to magically materialize, you'd still run the risk of coming up short in the 16-17 cycle due to having an old MCAT (limits the amount of schools you can apply to) and perhaps other parts of your app that should be improved. Having to work for a couple of years to rectify your app deficiencies (including an expired MCAT) is actually a blessing in disguise because it will improve your odds.
 
The following post is long, and is broken into sections by horizontal lines.

...I've been on the other side of the economic spectrum where "life changing" includes that day my father took me aside and said "I lost some money at the casino last weekend. I need you to take on extra shifts so your mom doesn't find out." When asked how much, he says, "my entire paycheck." And, a couple days later, going to open a new bank account he doesn't know about so he can no longer use my income to pay off his maxed out credit cards. (And before you ask...Yes, this actually happened.)

...The latest piece of this disaster (and what led to this thread) was Auntie B looking at me covered in rat crap and shredded insulation and other basement effluvia and saying, essentially, "by the way, I can't pay you what I promised...Actually I can't pay you anything at all for the past 10 months of work...but here's a cold can of pepsi for your time."

...My father wanted me to get student loans so I could pay off his bills.

...I am depressed because I HAD plans to pay for apps the past two years, each of which were canceled by various family members who are great at making promises and trash at following through with them.

~Spinach_Dip

Sounds like you absolutely need to stop trusting your family members. You can't let them keep using you like this. Start trusting a steady paycheck instead.
 
Find something that you are passionate about and pay the bills. I tutor students with learning disabilities in math and science. My company pays me 70-80 an hour. It has helped me save a great deal and apply very comfortably.
 
UWash is the only school for Washington, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Alaska and is inadequate –terribly hard to get into. I believe that Idaho residents have a few dedicated spots at UUtah but that’s it.
Fully half of Montana's applicants matriculate into MD schools.
Wyoming is almost as good at 47%.
Alaska enjoys a 39% matriculation and ID has 38%.
These are all higher odds compared to CA at 37%.
Of the states listed, only WA residents have (slightly) lower odds of matriculation at 36%.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf
 
Damn I have a 3.35 gpa and am expecting a really high MCAT score (lazy as fuk in undergrad) and my ECs are below average too... What do? Try to scores less on the MCAT??


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I got in on my 4th time to an MD school. Much lower MCAT, slightly higher GPA, self employed as my job, research, shadowing, MS degree in something not relevant, but I had more publications. I used FAP for 3 years and my 4th year I was unable to qualify for FAP and yet I couldn't afford anything either so I had a limited run.
 
Being honest I just skipped through most of this thread to tell you that the DO fee waiver is much more forgiving than the FAP. They don't take into consideration parents income if you are independent (sounds like you are). You'd have to retake the MCAT but if you got 505+ you'd be all but guaranteed an acceptance. Don't give up.

When did this happen?

When I applied my first round, I couldn't get the DO waiver (I was an independent student, I was denied) so only applied to one school that run (it bounced my account), and never applied to another in any other round.
 
You apparently have learned nothing from this thread. OP's 40 score did NOT keep him out of med school, and nor is it sufficient to get him in, either.


Damn I have a 3.35 gpa and am expecting a really high MCAT score (lazy as fuk in undergrad) and my ECs are below average too... What do? Try to scores less on the MCAT??


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Do you think if I talk to administrators at a school where my high MCAT is unusually high for them and promise them I'll attend if accepted, they'll be more likely to interview me? I know I messed up my GPA but was hoping to counter that by a high MCAT. Will doing a on year SMP to get a 3.5 gpa (if I get all A) worth it in your opinion Goro?


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Btw I'm very much a people person (you said the two 40+ MCAT people had personality defects?) and interview extremely well I've heard.


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Fully half of Montana's applicants matriculate into MD schools.
Wyoming is almost as good at 47%.
Alaska enjoys a 39% matriculation and ID has 38%.
These are all higher odds compared to CA at 37%.
Of the states listed, only WA residents have (slightly) lower odds of matriculation at 36%.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf
And this is despite CA applicants having stronger average MCATs!

Do you think if I talk to administrators at a school where my high MCAT is unusually high for them and promise them I'll attend if accepted, they'll be more likely to interview me? I know I messed up my GPA but was hoping to counter that by a high MCAT. Will doing a on year SMP to get a 3.5 gpa (if I get all A) worth it in your opinion Goro?


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Btw I'm very much a people person (you said the two 40+ MCAT people had personality defects?) and interview extremely well I've heard.


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Have you actually taken practice exams or are you assuming you'll score a 100th percentile MCAT?
 
And this is despite CA applicants having stronger average MCATs!




Have you actually taken practice exams or are you assuming you'll score a 100th percentile MCAT?

I'm assuming. In order to prepare for my best case scenario... Which doesn't look to good.


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I'm assuming. In order to prepare for my best case scenario... Which doesn't look to good.


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It's dangerous to assume a competitive MCAT, let alone a score in the top fraction of a percent of test takers. This is really a "cross that bridge if you come to it" situation. Go study and take the test, then come back for advice on whether you should apply and where.
 
It's dangerous to assume a competitive MCAT, let alone a score in the top fraction of a percent of test takers. This is really a "cross that bridge if you come to it" situation. Go study and take the test, then come back for advice on whether you should apply and where.

I'm aware , hence preparing for even my best case scenario (since I won't know my score till September and by then it'll be to late too apply to an SMP). If the SMP is unnecessary I have a year long full time research internship lined up through my mentor who is an academic liver transplant surgeon at the main hospital in Tampa which is connected to USF med school. My assumption is based on a lifelong record of good test taking skills and on studying a third of the time normal DAT takers did and got a 91%tile on the DAT (was not actually interested in dental school) and now I'm serious about the MCAT so I'm gonna study more than the average MCAT taker so hopefully I'll be in the top 10% for it.


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I'm aware , hence preparing for even my best case scenario (since I won't know my score till September and by then it'll be to late too apply to an SMP). If the SMP is unnecessary I have a year long full time research internship lined up through my mentor who is an academic liver transplant surgeon at the main hospital in Tampa which is connected to USF med school. My assumption is based on a lifelong record of good test taking skills and on studying a third of the time normal DAT takers did and got a 91%tile on the DAT (was not actually interested in dental school) and now I'm serious about the MCAT so I'm gonna study more than the average MCAT taker so hopefully I'll be in the top 10% for it.


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So your choice is
  • assume a high MCAT, plan to work in a lab and be a late applicant in September, or
  • do not assume a very high MCAT, plan to enroll in SMP and apply early next cycle
is that correct?
 
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