Should I get tablet for rotations?

[kwal319]

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I'm debating getting a tablet for rotations, but not sure how much I would use it. Have any of you used tablets in practice? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[trailerpark]

A smart phone is definitely all you need.

 

[hurx]

I agree that a smart phone is all that is needed. For my first internal med rotation I also bought the Sanford Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy which helped me find information quickly a few times.

 

[BenJammin]

Depends on the preceptor. Tablet would be just as useful as a smartphone but my students are banned from using either during rounds. Same goes for the residents.

 

[RX2090]

A course on the English language would suit you better.

Not to be a jerk, but if you're on rotations and you say "I debating" and "should I get tablet", that's not a great sign. You need to be able to type fast and properly in pharmacy, whether it's in retail or a hospital setting.

 

[molyhelp]

I'm debating getting a tablet for rotations, but not sure how much I would use it. Have any of you used tablets in practice? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

My retail pharmacy has policy for NO TEXTING. If you keep reading at tablets, you give me reason to think you are texting. I have had a few students appearing to be texting: they looked at cell phone to find information and we could hear ding sound and they would text back...What was really going on? We don't know. They may be actually just looking up information and a text came a long and they did not look at the text. But, in my mind and the minds of others around those students, we think they are texting. And that's not good image. I see you plan to use tablet which may or may not text, only you know that, others don't, so you still appear to be texting. So, first, ask the preceptor: what is your policy about me texting and using my own electronic device to look for information. Also, please know that the preceptor can be influenced by others. Your preceptor may be acceptable with you using your electronic device to find info. However, others may doubt and may suspect that you are texting. And they do have influence on your preceptor as they worked together before you came and they will work together after you leave the rotation. I survived all rotations without looking up information on my cell phone.

Horribly, at one rotation, I was assigned by 2 pharmacists to research drug information, drug interaction and cases. At the end of rotation, a technician told to my face that I was always on the computer doing something and not counting pills! I was glad she blurted out so I had the chance to defend myself that I was researching for the pharmacists and I personally owned spying software (for my kids) so I knew the computer could be remotely viewed from far away and therefore, I would never read anything that was not pharmacy related on those computers. That's my life experience. I shared so you can avoid the horrible misunderstanding. Good luck to your rotation.

Remember, your rotation is the best job interview: they get to see you in action, not just talk interview.

 

[fauxden]

My retail pharmacy has policy for NO TEXTING. If you keep reading at tablets, you give me reason to think you are texting. I have had a few students appearing to be texting: they looked at cell phone to find information and we could hear ding sound and they would text back...What was really going on? We don't know. They may be actually just looking up information and a text came a long and they did not look at the text. But, in my mind and the minds of others around those students, we think they are texting. And that's not good image. I see you plan to use tablet which may or may not text, only you know that, others don't, so you still appear to be texting. So, first, ask the preceptor: what is your policy about me texting and using my own electronic device to look for information. Also, please know that the preceptor can be influenced by others. Your preceptor may be acceptable with you using your electronic device to find info. However, others may doubt and may suspect that you are texting. And they do have influence on your preceptor as they worked together before you came and they will work together after you leave the rotation. I survived all rotations without looking up information on my cell phone.

Horribly, at one rotation, I was assigned by 2 pharmacists to research drug information, drug interaction and cases. At the end of rotation, a technician told to my face that I was always on the computer doing something and not counting pills! I was glad she blurted out so I had the chance to defend myself that I was researching for the pharmacists and I personally owned spying software (for my kids) so I knew the computer could be remotely viewed from far away and therefore, I would never read anything that was not pharmacy related on those computers. That's my life experience. I shared so you can avoid the horrible misunderstanding. Good luck to your rotation.

Remember, your rotation is the best job interview: they get to see you in action, not just talk interview.

holy crap that was a long a post on texting. Enthralling.

 

[confettiflyer]

Tablet is overkill, to answer the original question. I tell my students to listen and pay attention on rounds, not be a walking encyclopedia (that comes with time).

That said, when I was a student, I'd just excuse myself to the bathroom and text from there. You're pretty much guaranteed never to get caught that way.

 

[297point1]

That said, when I was a student, I'd just excuse myself to the bathroom and text from there. You're pretty much guaranteed never to get caught that way.

Preceptor: "You seem to go to the bathroom a lot."

Fetti: "If I don't go when I feel I have to...I could get uromysitisis poisoning and die! You think I enjoy living like this?"

 

[PharmNerdMatt]

Depends on how you use it. I have had students move completely to a tablet and use it for everything from research to note taking. We even allow students chart access on their tablet. Others work better with paper.

I think it is a little out dated to expect students to not use technology as part of their rotation. Here, every other medical resident is working from an iPad Mini on rounds. I even text during rounds, though it is usually work/patient care related. It is pretty easy for me to tell if students are working or texting/playing on their devices.

 

[BenJammin]

My retail pharmacy has policy for NO TEXTING. If you keep reading at tablets, you give me reason to think you are texting. I have had a few students appearing to be texting: they looked at cell phone to find information and we could hear ding sound and they would text back...What was really going on? We don't know. They may be actually just looking up information and a text came a long and they did not look at the text. But, in my mind and the minds of others around those students, we think they are texting. And that's not good image. I see you plan to use tablet which may or may not text, only you know that, others don't, so you still appear to be texting. So, first, ask the preceptor: what is your policy about me texting and using my own electronic device to look for information. Also, please know that the preceptor can be influenced by others. Your preceptor may be acceptable with you using your electronic device to find info. However, others may doubt and may suspect that you are texting. And they do have influence on your preceptor as they worked together before you came and they will work together after you leave the rotation. I survived all rotations without looking up information on my cell phone.

Horribly, at one rotation, I was assigned by 2 pharmacists to research drug information, drug interaction and cases. At the end of rotation, a technician told to my face that I was always on the computer doing something and not counting pills! I was glad she blurted out so I had the chance to defend myself that I was researching for the pharmacists and I personally owned spying software (for my kids) so I knew the computer could be remotely viewed from far away and therefore, I would never read anything that was not pharmacy related on those computers. That's my life experience. I shared so you can avoid the horrible misunderstanding. Good luck to your rotation.

Remember, your rotation is the best job interview: they get to see you in action, not just talk interview.

What a fantastic post! It's like you read my mind and posted my inner monologue. I couldn't agree more with your comments.

Let me add the hospital perspective. For the longest time I used to be pro-smartphone and tablet but that changed awhile back. I'm a big believer in utilizing the power we have to accomplish what we need to accomplish. If we're fixing a door, I want the power drill and not the manual screwdriver. If we're nailing shelving, I want the nail gun and not a hammer. If we're having a disagreement on dosing during rounds, give me my mobile resources over a giant book. But something happened. Many patients and their families were beginning to make comments that I never paid attention to the doctors and that I was a texting machine. "What use is he to me? Who is he texting? His women need to leave him alone during work". Heard it all! I was defiant for the longest time. I have all of this power in the palm of my hand and I need it when I need it. If the patients don't like it, too bad because I'm here to help them.

Then I start realizing that their perception of me affects the perception of my medical residents. The more and more I deal with issues, the more I become familiar with guidelines. I'm not really committing things to memory, I'm just understanding it and being able to pull it out of my brain. My mobile resources have held me back as a pharmacist and so I deleted all of them. Left the phone in my office. Not only do I feel more confident during rounds but my residents respect me more as a pharmacist who knows his stuff rather than a pharmacist that is only as good as the book in front of him.

That's why I ban my students from using them during rounds. Turn your phone and tablet on silent, put them in the safe in my office, take the key, and you can get them out when we come back from rounds. Your phone isn't needed on the floor. 99% of them are shocked when I give my little speech but it helps build confidence. They complain that they don't want to look like an idiot in front of the docs but if you have to pull out your phone to look something up, you're already nailed to the wall. They have the same phones. They have the same apps. They have the same resources. Why do they need you? A lot of people disagree with me and that's fine. The only opinion that matters is the opinion of my medical residents and I know for a fact that they aren't texting my critics at 11 PM trying to convert a morphine drip to PO dosing or asking whether or not they should crank down the levofloxacin on a patient whose crcl just tanked to 15.

Rotations are mini-job interviews and students who don't treat them as such are setting themselves up for failure. Pharmacy is a very small world.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I never used a tablet as a student. I did use my phone for lexi if something came up that I didn't know. Even now on rounds, I hate tablets. I honestly rather write all my thoughts down and have my labs ready to go instead of relying on tablet and poor hospital internet connection to pull up something.

 

[confettiflyer]

Preceptor: "You seem to go to the bathroom a lot."

Fetti: "If I don't go when I feel I have to...I could get uromysitisis poisoning and die! You think I enjoy living like this?"

It helps drinking a lot of coffee...you would have thought a Dunkin Donut cup was permanently attached to my hand.

 

[confettiflyer]

Then I start realizing that their perception of me affects the perception of my medical residents.

Yup. For everyone else who didn't read, tl;dr = perception is reality, looking up meropenem dosing on a smart phone = Snapchatting with your boo.

 

[aldolase]

That's true. We had a lecture on end of life care in ICU about it. Family of patient is sensitive especially when they are in pain and you seem to be texting away even if in reality you were looking up information for better patient care.

 

[confettiflyer]

That's true. We had a lecture on end of life care in ICU about it. Family of patient is sensitive especially when they are in pain and you seem to be texting away even if in reality you were looking up information for better patient care.

Prior to me not using my phone, once or twice I would loop whoever I'm with into what I was looking up. That, at some point, becomes impossible or difficult to do in certain settings.

And for the life of me I cannot think of what someone needs to look up when you're in a freaking patient conference regarding end-of-life care. Morphine doses? How often a scopolamine patch should be replaced? Put on your empathy face and look like a person, not a walking textbook!

Medicine is more art than science, believe it or not.

 

[PharmNerdMatt]

Anyone in the Anti-Phone camp work in an ICU or Trauma Unit?

 

[confettiflyer]

Anyone in the Anti-Phone camp work in an ICU or Trauma Unit?

ICU mostly, why?

 

[PharmNerdMatt]

ICU mostly, why?

Mostly curiosity. A lot of our discussions are done outside the context of each other's practice sites. Here is how I frame the discussion of students with a tablet. In the ICU's I push around a laptop during rounds. Not sure how I would tell a student they can't look up something during rounds, when I have a computer in front of me the whole time.

 

[El Trombopag]

I think it depends a lot on how a tablet is used. If a student is engaged with the rounding team, preceptors, and patients and only occasionally looks something up, a tablet can be a useful tool. If the student is constantly immersed, trying to record everything like a court reporter, the tablet is a useless crutch. Same issue with a smartphone: Crutch vs. tool.

Personally, I like to see students with a small set of index cards and an up to date Sanford guide, smartphone for backup.

 

[confettiflyer]

Mostly curiosity. A lot of our discussions are done outside the context of each other's practice sites. Here is how I frame the discussion of students with a tablet. In the ICU's I push around a laptop during rounds. Not sure how I would tell a student they can't look up something during rounds, when I have a computer in front of me the whole time.

I have that too, but it's primarily for urgent order entry/discontinuation and not for DI unless specifically requested on the spot AND i don't have the answer off the top of my head. My bread and butter is my paper rounding sheet/hand notes and paying attention, computer is secondary as it could potentially open you up to being a scribe/order entry monkey for the entirety of rounds.

It's interesting in that all of my ICU rotations in both school + residency were done without the aid of a mobile computer on wheels...it only showed up after I started working, so it's always been secondary.

And no I'm not a luddite, I have practically every electronic gadget known to mankind, haha.

 

[BeLikeBueller]

Bought a Nexus 7 before rotations...never used it. Had an ipod touch with medical apps, used it almost daily - more often in writing patients up, but sometimes to answer questions on rounds as well.

To the point above, I STRONGLY disagree with the posts about students not be allowed to use technology. The world is changing, and whether or not you like it, we all have to rely (to a certain extent) on the peripheral brain that is our smartphone.

I am reminded of what Dr. William Mayo said in 1910: "The sum-total of medical knowledge is now so great and wide-spreading that it would be futile for one man to attempt to acquire, or for any one man to assume that he has, even a good working knowledge of any large part of the whole."

There is a great bias in pharmacists who have been out of residency for 4-5 years, because they have answered the same questions that every set of residents ends up asking each year for several years. So, of course they can fare well without a technological crutch. But you know what, we're students without the many years of experience under our belts. Yes, I aced my cardio test 27 months ago. No, I do not have a verbatim recall of the things I studied. Ergo, I need the ability to "refresh" myself on topics that I have not encountered in some time.

On top of that, none of the attendings or residents that I have worked with have ever been happy with an answer of, "I'm not sure, I'll have to look it up and get back to you." Usually, if I have a question that I have to follow up on, the decision has already been made by the time I get back with an answer, rendering my input irrelevant.

I do recognize that patient perception is important, though. This is why my own personal policy has been that I never use technology in a patient's room. I always wait until I'm in the hall to use my mobile device, or if an answer is needed while the team is still in the room, I step out until I have found the answer.

The biggest problem with technology, IMHO, is that students will dig through their resources for the answer to the question at hand, and not take time to review the disease state that they're looking up. Perhaps I'm the exception in this case, but every question I have to look up is an opportunity for me to review and refresh. Some of the best learning that I have done on rotations has been reading through uptodate after having to look up a question.

I think preceptors need to be strict about doing personal things while on rounds or in patient care (i.e. strong grade penalties, etc.), but I would argue that banning technology stifles one's ability to learn and review.

I will add this as somewhat of an afterthought - students should be trying to anticipate any questions that arise on rounds. That's what I did on my direct-care rotations, and I had to look maybe two to three things up each day (mostly dosing or next-step therapy for odd disease states that I wasn't familiar with). If a student is not preparing for questions on rounds and is relying 100% on their smartphone, then that is a problem. But the issue is not the technology in that case, it's the student.

Maybe it's just a difference in settings, but in the academic medical center I have been at, technology is a welcome component of the educational process, and I think it helps us make the most informed patient care decisions, because we are always searching the most updated information we have available. But that's just my $0.02

 

[MatCauthon]

I would personally spend time memorizing guidelines, making charts, and creating your own rounding book. This will be far more valuable than what a tablet can offer. The more you can organize information in your own head (and peripheral brain which doesn't have to be a tablet) the easier it will be for you to access this information on demand.

Most of the stuff you real need to know for each subject area can usually be condensed onto 1-2 pages or less.

 

[BeLikeBueller]

I would personally spend time memorizing guidelines, making charts, and creating your own rounding book. This will be far more valuable than what a tablet can offer. The more you can organize information in your own head (and peripheral brain which doesn't have to be a tablet) the easier it will be for you to access this information on demand.

Most of the stuff you real need to know for each subject area can usually be condensed onto 1-2 pages or less.

I do study, of course, and hope to commit to memory all of the information that is necessary for day-to-day practice. That is the goal (in my opinion) of pharmacy school. That being said, the questions that often come up on rounds typically are not things that a student has previously encountered...particularly in an ICU/CCU setting (this has been my experience, at least). This is why technology is crucial, in my opinion. The difference between me looking up something in between patient rooms or waiting until rounds are finished, going back to the library, and then having to track down the resident/physician, is about 2-3 hours, an impatient team, and typically a decreased likelihood in being able to actually make an intervention.

I agree with some of your points...technology should not be a crutch for lack of study/preparation and it should not undermine patient perceptions of the team/pharmacist. That being said, I think that technology has a place and can be implemented in such a way that these issues are, well...not an issue.

Again, I respect your opinion and I do understand where you are coming from. We will just have to agree to disagree. 😉