Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Probably sarcasm, but BFE stands for Bum F*ck Egypt AKA the middle of nowhere
Should I go to pharmacy school?
Started by HeNeedsSomeMilk
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
- Status
Hmm, so it doesn't have anything to do with living at base flood elevation. Nevermind then. Still, base flood elevation is a pretty good thing to watch out for. It's weird that it actually stands for Egypt. That doesn't make any sense. Thanks for the explanation though. 🙂
When people generally think of Egypt they think of the desert, so even though it's stereotypical, it does make sense
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
D
deleted820760
Lol. That image was meant for you after @owlegrad's comments. Lol.
D
deleted820760
And no, that's not me who said those things. Get it right. I've had clinical pharmacist positions in two major metropolitan areas, and I am happy.
D
deleted556323
No
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
You might be happy, but I'm not envious of you at all. I have no idea which metro areas you've worked in, but it's shocking to see how low starting salaries have gotten in some of the more desirable metro areas (e.g., $70k in south FL, similarly low starting salaries throughout much of the rest of FL; do a job search on Indeed.com). What's ironic is that FL is known for having the lowest starting salaries for AAs/CRNAs, but even in south FL, starting salaries usually don't dip below $110k.
The contradiction is amazing -- half the time in school and substantially cheaper tuition for 60-70% higher starting salaries and at least several additional weeks of PTO. How could I have been so stupid to have started down this path in the first place? I'd hate to see what I would do to myself if I ever tried hardcore illegal drugs.
OP, seriously look into other fields. At minimum, do a job search for pharmacist jobs in your area on Indeed.com and then compare the results to those you get when doing a search for practically any other health professions jobs.
D
deleted820760
You should have listened to people when they told you not to go to pharmacy school. I wouldn't recommend starting pharmacy school now, but I'm happy that I'm already a pharmacist and I love my job.
Nobody is saying the market is not saturated. People just got fed up with you complaining all the time when you were the one who didn't listen to anybody's advice. I'm glad you've finally made your decision and I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks. There's no getting around acknowledging the fact that making the mistake of pursuing a career in pharmacy is 100% on me. At least I made the most out of the opportunity to raise my GPA. Hopefully the OP of this thread makes the right decision and pursues something (practically anything) else.
do not go to pharmacy school
Thx for all the info and feedback guys. I might consider doing PA school
Good choice. Also consider DO school or nursing school followed by CRNA school.
to answer the OP's questions since everyone is so caught up on someone else.... I went to LIU and it was a terrible decision, especially being from out of state. I don't like their structure and they're super expensive in my eyes BUT.. if you want to practice in NY, go to NY school. Also, if have the passion for pharmacy then go for it. If not or you're looking for quick cash and a stable/hassle free job, look elsewhere. I don't know where elsewhere currently is but its somewhere.
Is it because they have connections?
yes and also because I believe they will prepare you better for the boards and etc. Each state has different rules and I believe NY does compounding on one of the exams if I'm not mistaken. I go to school in a state that I do not wish to practice in and i'm learning things that I will not use.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I haven't looked it up in a while, but last I checked, NY state does still require a wet lab as part of their state licensing examination.
do not go into the medical field. just stay out of it. if i were you i'd pursue something in business, finance, or marketing
.....I know a pharmacist that had degrees you mentioned: Bachelor's Degree in Marketing, combined with Management, combined with Operations Management....then went to pharmacy school and now is pharmacist....Next plan in the far distant, MBA.
Oh so now the midwest is BFE because of nightlife, public amenities, and restaurants? We have all that and more.
If you don't want to move away from friends and family that is fine but this delusion that there's nothing in the midwest is false. There aren't too many areas that aren't within one hour of a large city which is a normal travel time in LA last time I checked.
Oh and I'm on pace for $170k this year which is probably over $200k in these over priced areas. Man does it suck being a pharmacist in the midwest, I wish I had never gone to pharmacy school!!!
There are a ton of jobs that aren't in BFE, especially in the Midwest. Pa2pharm isn't even a pharmacist lol, he wouldn't know. Btw a friend from my class just got a job in Atlanta, Georgia, thought there weren't any jobs in Georgia??? Pa2pharm must be so repulsive irl, I don't even wanna imagine
The fact that nobody is really arguing with me over the fact that graduates are now having to move to rural areas of the midwest proves the point I was trying to make. If someone isn't willing to move multiple states away to find a job, pharmacy isn't for them
Every single recent statistical study that has been completed to assess the viability of the job market indicates that you're wrong about there being "tons of jobs that aren't in BFE." As for your friend who got a job in Atlanta, did he work as an intern for the chain? Is he working at a "problem" store in the ghetto? Did he have connections? The fact that one person here and there gets a job in Atlanta doesn't automatically invalidate the studies that show that the city/state is overwhelmingly saturated. But I get that the state of the pharmacy profession in general has degenerated to the extent that the notion of individual anecdotes disqualifying broader study findings is the new collective psychological mentality among pharmacists.
Honestly dude nobody cares what you have to say. I have a job & almost every pharmacist that graduates has a job. You're like 28 years old and spend all of your free time complaining on here. Btw, my friend works in suburban Atlanta at a grocery store pharmacy, but he must be lying because jobs don't exist in Atlanta.
Yeah, keep responding to my posts and then insist that you don't care about what I have to say. Yes, I agree that your friend having a pharmacist job in Atlanta (n=1) and your statement that "every pharmacist that graduates has a job" automatically and completely invalidates every study that indicates the pharmacist job market is in anything other than great shape. That's the new thing in pharmacy: if you are a dedicated pharmacist or pharmacy student who is "truly passionate" about pharmacy, then any entity or publication (even one backed by statistical merit) that dares to say that the pharmacist job market sucks or that the field is projected to experience less growth than any other health profession (actually, less growth than almost ANY other profession) is total crap. And if you happen to think otherwise (because, you know, unbiased math and numbers sort of make sense), then get the hell outta this profession because we don't need people with your attitude in this field!
What kind of bonuses you been getting at WG? Sailing or busting ass for the 170? I can work medium hard at CVS night to get to 170 but I think I might want to back to days.
Just turned down another 140K job in a bigger and better city than ATL. I hate traffic!
have you ever thought about ignoring their posts? they continue because you continue... you don't have to continue to further explain/defend yourself here. I learned that the hard way.
Seriously dude, do you not have any other hobbies in the real world? You have to spend your free time on this Earth trashing a profession which, and I can't stress this enough, you have no real-world experience in? AKA you're essentially talking out of your a$$?
Are you ready to take on the burden of taking on a huge loan?
So now this thread has officially taken the direction of accusing me of making totally baseless claims about the pharmacist job market, simply because I haven't taken the formal steps of applying for a real-life pharmacist job and experienced what the actual job search is like. In addition, the information related to hiring that I have received from DMs and DOPs (and at least one other member on this forum has spoken to these same people -- in fact, it was an SDN member who initially told me about the hospital job market in my area) is now considered to be totally inaccurate because it is anecdotal, while the anecdotes of members who state that they were able to find pharmacist employment in rural regions of GA are considered to be objectively accurate indications that the job market isn't as bad off as I insist it to be. Yeah, the logic makes sense. Now I'm the one exaggerating how bad the job market is. I guess a PDI rating of 2.65 (indicating more pharmacists overall than jobs) for GA is also an exaggeration, despite the fact that, if anything, this number would be manipulated so as to NOT make the job market look as bad as it really is (considering that the data comes from the AACP).
How about this: if the job listing sites for CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, Walmart, Publix, Bi-Lo, any other chains, and hospitals have ZERO job listings, then the market is full. Of course, this piece of information will only be considered to be accurate and legitimate if it comes from a real-life pharmacist who has also witnessed the same state of circumstances I just described. It's like someone saying that they will not consider "10" to be a correct answer to the math problem "5+5 = ?" unless that answer comes from a doctoral degree-holding mathematician.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
That's probably the best strategy. In a sense, I guess it's normal to expect some people who work in a profession and are truly passionate about it to defend it against statements they perceive to be excessively negative, almost as if it's their "baby."
Well, there is an open pharmacist manager position at a Sams club in Lithonia, GA. I did not do an in depth search of all companies (just searched Walmart online), and there are other positions at Walmart in Georgia. I know that you were looking for things close to Atlanta, so I narrowed the search.
I think people are discounting what you say because you make stuff up. I also think you flatter yourself by calling your perspective anecdotal. Your perspective is not being discounted because it's based on an N=1 experience, it's being discounted because it's just a list of stuff you feel is true.
Make believe experience 🙂
Addendum: This is not intended to be a harsh put down. I can see that you are smart and tenacious. I'm sure you will be great as an anesthesiologist assistant (or whatever you wind up doing). In some spaces you are a guest, so you have to cool it and let other people do the talking.
Last edited:
The irony is so rich, it's killing me.
Wait a second, what the hell am I actually making up? In my post prior to this one, I was referring to the city in GA I live in. There are currently a grand total of THREE pharmacist jobs listed for Walmart/Sam's on the Walmart jobs page you referenced. When I say that the job market sucks and you respond and say "Oh look, here's a job, there's a job," and in reality the grand total number of jobs across two (three if you consider Neighborhood Market to be a separate chain) chains is THREE, that doesn't exactly prove my point wrong. In fact, don't you think it's disingenuous to try to dispute the point that the job market sucks by referencing the fact that there are only three jobs for that company in the entire state?
What's "make-believe" about anything I have said? Are you accusing me of making things up? Is the fact that Walmart and all its associated chains have 3 open jobs in the entire state make-believe on my part as well? Why don't you do a search for CVS pharmacist jobs for GA and see how many you find? I would do it, but that number would be labeled as make-believe or anecdotal as well.
Also, who the hell are you to say that I'm making up what local hospital DOPs have told me about the job market? The whole reason I got in touch with them in the first place is because at least TWO members who post regularly here who are from GA told me about the situation in the first place!
You arguing with me that the job market is good because there are 3 jobs listed by Walmart is like someone remarking that they don't have anymore food at home, and then someone else spends an hour scouring the refrigerator who then tells the first person, "No, you're not out of food.... I found a celery stick in the back corner! Now I know not to listen to you anymore when it comes to determining how much food we have!"
Edited to add: Just as an aside, even if someone makes a statement that actually IS anecdotal in nature, why in the hell would the natural conclusion be to label the statement as being made-up or totally false? At the most, doesn't it make sense to simply conclude that the anecdote cannot be declared to be totally true or false either way? It's laughable that the pharmacy job market deniers here insist on declaring that since conversations with a DOP (as well as an inspection of their hospital's own jobs page) are anecdotal, not only is everything I say 100% inaccurate and fabricated, but the exact OPPOSITE of what I'm saying must therefore be true! Ridiculous
Last edited:
That was just one of several companies that you listed. That was actually what I was referring to when I stated that you were making things up. I believe your post claimed that there were ZERO (emphasis was yours) jobs at any retail locations or hospitals. You kinda didn't even google that claim, much less research it before posting.
Additionally, pharmacy directors from hospitals are not a great source for retail pharmacy information. I'm not sure why you are quoting them to argue about job availability at Walmart and Walgreens 🙂
I think you are a good person. I hope that you don't feel bullied by these replies. It certainly isn't my intention to make you feel that way. Let me know if it this conversation is a stressor. Per your posts, you've made a lot of changes recently. You probably don't need internet hostility.
Are you bullsh*tting me with this "hurt my feelings crap?" I can't tell if you are trolling or being serious. You are so desperate to defend the field of pharmacy that you're splitting hairs; when I say that there are practically no jobs in GA for a particular chain, I consider the fact that there are only 3 in the state to prove my point.
Take a step back and look at what you're trying to argue -- "no, the job market in GA is not bad, because Walmart has 3 openings in the entire state, with one of them being in BFE and the other one posted for someone to work in the most ghetto, least desirable city in GA!"
And it should be obvious when I state that a hospital DOP told me there are no jobs here that they're referring to the HOSPITAL job market, including the very hospital they work at. It is a fact that they haven't hired a single one of their own residency program graduates in 4 years (like I said, it was someone on SDN who told me this in the first place).
To the OP or anyone else reading this thread who would actually like to get an objective assessment of the strength of the pharmacist job market: consider what these people are actually saying here. They are arguing that the pharmacist job market here doesn't have practically zero jobs, and why? Because Walmart has 3 open job listings in GA, and since 3 is not the same number as 0, I'm obviously totally wrong on this subject and the opposite of what I'm saying must be true.
At this point, it is obvious that anyone reading this thread needs to come up with their own subjective perception of what they consider a "good" job market to look like. If you think 3-5 jobs per chain scattered throughout the most undesirable areas of the state is an indication of a "good" job market, then pharmacy fits the bill. If not, then you either have a bad attitude or aren't truly passionate about being a pharmacist. Yeah, that's it.
Only 3 positions at Walmart at this moment, so a fair number of qualifications on the only three jobs statement. There are like 25 listed for CVS right now (I didn't actually count. It's probably slightly north of my estimate). There are probably jobs at other companies as well. I haven't checked either way. You didn't say that you were talking about just one company in your first post. You specified that jobs were few and far between at all companies and that the grand total of those jobs approached zero (to utilize your interpretation of the word zero). I'm glad that you recognize that your hospital sources aren't able to give you relevant information on this topic, but it does leave me wondering why you consider them to be sources.
I think you'll do great in life. It's pretty clear that pharmacy wasn't your thing. Regardless of this thread, you still made the right call for you when you walked away. I'm not talking about or criticizing your choice when I defend pharmacy, I'm just talking about my choice. It takes a lot of guts to make a big change like you did, and I'm happy for you. 🙂
How many openings would Walmart have to have to make the market strong? Just curious.
Don't waste your time being nice to patopharm, he's rude and horrible to everyone on this forum
There are NO careers with a "great" job outlook after graduation. Seriously, there just aren't. Certainly there are career fields with better prospects over other career fields, but in spite of Trumps "1,000,000,000" new jobs, they don't seem to be in college educated fields (and he plans on increasing skilled worker immigration, so expect it to get even worse.) People need to stop picking a career because they think it's "hot", because they will end up disappointed.
He has said repeated in old threads that he was kicked out, just like he did in this thread, but I see his latest post was that he actually dropped out? That's the first I've heard that....
What it should be is AAtoPharmToPA.....or is he going back to AA again? AAtoPharmToAA ?
Nah dude, you aren't paying close enough attention. He failed one class and decided to drop out. Gotta get that story straight!
Yeah, but then he went to pharmacy school and killed it P1 year. In fact because pharmacy school is so easy, he now has like a 3.99 GPA. Everyone knows the P1 year is the rough one in pharmacy school, so no way they will struggle in AA or PA school again.
I made it 70% of the way through the didactic portion of AA school. There was one full-time didactic semester left, and then one more semester during which AA students only take a single didactic course. Keep in mind that AA/PA students don't waste away in didactic courses for 2 years prior to start full-time clinicals like pharmacy students. Actually, by the time pharmacy students are done with their 2 years of didactic coursework (which involves learning interventions that they'll never get to receive insurance reimbursements for providing in the vast majority of states), AA/PA students have about 2 more months of clinical rotations to attend before they graduate.
If there would've been a high likelihood of me ending up in BFE if I had continued with pharmacy school, then there's no way in hell I'm wasting away for three more years just so I can move there and earn what would likely be a sub-six figures salary, especially when (in the current job market) an anesthesia midlevel (AA/CRNA) can earn $150k to venture out to BFE. Unless the job market changes over the next few years, an AA/CRNA who works for an anesthesia group in the same region where you work as a pharmacist would make 1.5x your salary to start. What's even scarier is that many pharmacy school graduates are clawing over each other to attend 1 or 2 year residencies so they can get the same job as you.
I've explained it before and just don't care enough to do it again. It shouldn't be that hard to understand (and if it is, that's sad). Sure, whatever, I failed every class and lab in AA school if it's easier for everyone here to understand. Ok.
No, I knew you only failed one class, but I thought you were dismissed from the school because of failing that class (or at least the test) twice. But obviously, AA was your first choice, so I wish you success as you return to it (have you been accepted yet? I haven't been around here much this summer, so I don't know.) Now if I remember correctly, the stress of the test mimicing a real world anethesia crisis is what caused you to fail, so you decided to go to pharmacy specifically because you thought it would be non-stressful (even though I and many others told you pharmacy is a very stressful career.).....so what are you going to do different in order to handle your stress? I remember recommending to you a couple of years ago that you talk to a counselor or take some kind of stress-managment class. Have you figured out how to handle your stress, so you can pass the class this time?
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Why should you need to explain it again? I know it gets tiring to repeat yourself over and over so I got your back and I explained it for you. You're welcome!
There aren't just a ton of anesthesiologist assistant jobs currently listed on job search sites, so this is only based on a few data points and some kind of out of date reporting by the AMA. BLS 2016 numbers don't include average salary for anesthesiologist assistants.
The 150K estimate is probably a little high. It is more likely that you will start at an 80K to 100K salary as an anesthesiologist assistant. One currently available VA position is paying anesthesiologist assistants 56K to 75K per year. Like you said, there is a lot less schooling required. Although the starting salary is a little lower than what you would expect as a pharmacist, you start work so much sooner that, even financially, you may be better off as an anesthesiologist assistant compared to a pharmacist.
Pharmacists typically complete 3 didactic years not 2.
Addendum: For real, stop putting down my profession. 🙂 If you post, "I'm really excited about AA school. I'm going to be making 150K per year." I'll give you a thumbs up and move on; however, if your post bags on pharmacy, I'm going to fact check it. If the fact checking is an irritation, switch your approach.
Last edited:
I find it interesting that a CRNA requires completion of a Nursing degree (2 years) followed by 1 year CCU/ICU experience, then completion of the CRNA program (24-36 months, Total of 60-72 months ), however, AA is just some undergrad and 28 months of school. I think I would much rather have a CRNA in place who has experience dealing with sick patients (CCU level sick patients) and codes. Both learn about their role, but one seems way more qualified to be administering someone medications that could easily kill them or not ensure they were adequately sedated.
You're right, $150k is not a standard starting salary for AAs/CRNAs (but it is offered more commonly in BFE areas), but $80k-$100k is way too low. The only area of the country that pays anywhere close to $80k-$100k is parts of south FL, which may pay as low as $110k. To get a more accurate idea of what AAs and CRNAs actually make, browse over some of the jobs that are currently listed and make note of the salaries you see:
GasWork.com - Search - Anesthesiologist Assistant Jobs
Not only are there no jobs with listed salaries that offer as low a $80k/year, but make note of the fact that the "max" listed salaries for most jobs are higher than the max salaries paid by retail chains to even their most experienced pharmacists, and that they're WAY higher than the max salaries earned by hospital pharmacists pretty much anywhere outside of CA. Coming on here and describing your opinion-based method of refuting my claims regarding AA starting salaries as your idea of "fact checking" is a joke.
Wow, I didn't think about the fact that there are actually 3 and not 2 years of didactic training for pharmacists. Yeah, there's no way in hell I could imagine forcing myself through two more years of this crap.
Congratulations; you just deduced 80% of the AANA's smear campaign against AAs. There are no studies that indicate that having a nursing academic background or experience makes someone safer or more qualified to practice anesthesia, and the anesthesia groups that don't follow a pro-nursing slant hire both CRNAs and AAs. Ironically enough, there is supposedly an AA-to-CRNA bridge program in the works, so pretty soon, you might actually see CRNAs who have never worked a day in their lives as nurses. It still doesn't change the fact that an AA who works for a BFE practice will earn a higher starting salary (and have less in loans to pay back) after spending 1/2 - 1/3 the amount of time in school as a pharmacist who is also willing to work in BFE. I'm guessing you also think that NPs are more qualified than PAs to practice since NPs have nursing backgrounds and many PA programs accept applicants who have no healthcare backgrounds whatsoever.
- Status
