Should I list Jewish?

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Happensinvegas

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Hey y'all: I was wondering if med schools have an "unofficial" quotas on Jews now-a-days. I know this was true a few decades ago where they secretly only admitted a certain percentage of Jews. I am Jewish by ethnicity but not religious. I am hardly spiritual although my family is. I was wondering if I should put that I am Jewish or if I should put None (atheist, or whatever it lists)

Pros of putting Jewish:
Could create a discussion starter if interviewer is Jewish
Could be looked on favorably if person reading it is Jewish

Cons of putting Jewish:
Possible hidden Jew quotas
Hard-core liberal interviewer who believes that Jews and Israelis are evil people for what they do to palestinians and hold it against me (For those of you wondering, I was interviewing for a Job and the guy who interviewed me went on a rant for how evil "you people" are [referring to Jews] for how they treat the poor palestinians)
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Lawper said:
I didn't realize liberalism was anti-Semitic.

There is no discrimination against Jews, so you are fine applying as such.
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By definition it isn't anti-Semitic, but if you look at modern media, the people who complain about "the occupation of Palestine" and complain about Israel are almost always on the far-left side of the political spectrum. Not many conservatives are against Israel
 
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Happensinvegas said:
By definition it isn't anti-Semitic, but if you look at modern media, the people who complain about "the occupation of Palestine" and complain about Israel are almost always on the far-left side of the political spectrum. Not many conservatives are against Israel
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Dude... If someone is against Jews I guarantee you it has nothing to do with the politics of Israel or whatever BS you're talking about. Trust me. Your previous interviewer was ******ed and extremely unprofessional, I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt you'll find someone like that in a med school interview.

If you consider yourself and identify as a Jew, then list yourself as Jewish. If not, then don't. It's really that simple.
 
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Happensinvegas said:
By definition it isn't anti-Semitic, but if you look at modern media, the people who complain about "the occupation of Palestine" and complain about Israel are almost always on the far-left side of the political spectrum. Not many conservatives are against Israel
Click to expand...

That's just nonsense spoken by people who have zero knowledge on politics and foreign affairs. Rest assured, adcoms will not punish you, throw you into quotas (quotas are illegal anyways), discriminate you etc. in any way.
 
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I would never mention any religious beliefs on your app. It just opens a can of worms. Medicine and religious beliefs should not be mixed together.
 
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Happensinvegas said:
By definition it isn't anti-Semitic, but if you look at modern media, the people who complain about "the occupation of Palestine" and complain about Israel are almost always on the far-left side of the political spectrum. Not many conservatives are against Israel
Click to expand...
"One guy saying that
Happensinvegas said:
Hey y'all: I was wondering if med schools have an "unofficial" quotas on Jews now-a-days. I know this was true a few decades ago where they secretly only admitted a certain percentage of Jews. I am Jewish by ethnicity but not religious. I am hardly spiritual although my family is. I was wondering if I should put that I am Jewish or if I should put None (atheist, or whatever it lists)

Pros of putting Jewish:
Could create a discussion starter if interviewer is Jewish
Could be looked on favorably if person reading it is Jewish

Cons of putting Jewish:
Possible hidden Jew quotas
Hard-core liberal interviewer who believes that Jews and Israelis are evil people for what they do to palestinians and hold it against me (For those of you wondering, I was interviewing for a Job and the guy who interviewed me went on a rant for how evil "you people" are [referring to Jews] for how they treat the poor palestinians)
Click to expand...
One guy saying "you people" are evil should not be associated with all liberals being antisemitic based off that experience. Best to keep this out of your application if you see your religion/Israel/Palestine/liberals as so black and white: Republican=proIsrael/projew and Liberal=antisrael/antisemitic.
 
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Lawper said:
That's just nonsense spoken by people who have zero knowledge on politics and foreign affairs. Rest assured, adcoms will not punish you, throw you into quotas (quotas are illegal anyways), discriminate you etc. in any way.
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Quotas are illegal but discrimination by giving people advantages is still legal.
 
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Mad Jack said:
No one cares about your religion.

As to the whole liberals and Israel- believing Israel is being unfair to Palestinians is not about religion. It is about a group of people herding another group of people into camps and defuing international law on multiple fronts, depriving them of their human rights, etc etc. I don't care if the person doing that is Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, Christian, or whatever. But the nation of Israel does it as policy, and, as an American, born of a nation of ideals, I find that offensive. Israel has chosen, much as America has chosen, to sacrifice ideals to save lives. To me, that is the worst atrocity. Freedom should prevail, but both of us have sacrificed freedom for security, and thus deserve neither.
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Easy to say that when you don't have to worry about security.

Not to be off topic OP its not necessary to list your religion unless it's an important part of your application. I wouldn't list it just because you feel like it.
 
Mad Jack said:
I would gladly die for my ideals. Most men aren't willing to. The cowardice of men will ruin this world.
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I am in this world to
1) Enjoy and Experience it myself
2) Help others make the most of theirs

I am not here to be so stuck up in my own ideals that I would throw away this 1 in infinity chance to live on this earth just so I can say "I told ya so"
 
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Mad Jack said:
I would gladly die for my ideals. Most men aren't willing to. The cowardice of men will ruin this world.
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i think this is the most blow-hard post i've ever read on this forum, and thats saying a lot.
 
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Mad Jack said:
I would gladly die for my ideals. Most men aren't willing to. The cowardice of men will ruin this world.
Click to expand...

So...if you're unhappy with the way America is run why won't you go somewhere else that fits more of your ideals? If you're willing to die for your ideals then you're certainly should be willing to live and move where your ideals are practiced. There are probably other countries out there who share your beliefs.

I don't understand this armchair babble.
 
how is jewish an ethnicity?! its a religion and they dont ask for religion on amcas.
if youre israeli im guessing youd be considered white??? this thread has to be a joke
 
Seriously, if 4chan or 9gag ever decided to troll SDN they'd be shocked at how easy it is to ruffle the feathers of many posters.
 
I put my religion...I don't care...

Plus it's pretty obvious since I went to catholic schools ages 3-24
 
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School applications do not ask for your religion. If your ethnicity or religion is revealed by mentioning certain activities that you participate in, then by all means mention it (e.g. Indian classical dance, Chinese harp, years abroad as a missionary, a year studying in Israel, or in a diversity statement). Otherwise, I would leave out gratuitous references to ethnic, religious, or political groups to which you might belong. It will not help you ( the pros you listed above are cringe inducing) but the cons have some merit. Are there still Jewish quotas? Certainly not officially. Perhaps there would still be unofficial quotas, but if they still exist they would be overwhelmed by the Asian and Southeast Asian quotas, official or not, today. ( Evidence for Asian quotas are the higher GPAs and MCAT scores of accepted Asians students vs whites ).
 
Where do you plan on putting this? I don't understand. You are going to go out of your way to try to potentially involve religion/politics into your application? If you did some volunteer stuff with your synagogue/temple, sure put it under the activities section. Otherwise, I don't see how this is relevant.
 
Honestly, if it is a part of your story don't be afraid to mention it. Apply to Rosalind Franklin, they were the school that was anti Jewish quota during all those years of discrimination.

I love how people don't understand that Judaism is a religion and Jewish people an cultural/ethnic identity. There are many atheist and secular Jewish people in this world.
 
Only if you're applying to Einstein or the Touros. Don't do it if you're applying to Cornell-Qatar. I don't know how it will go over at Loma Linda or LUCOM, other than they may see you as conversion-bait.

Jew quotas????? This isn't 1920!

No one gets an advantage by listing their religion in the PS.

Happensinvegas said:
Hey y'all: I was wondering if med schools have an "unofficial" quotas on Jews now-a-days. I know this was true a few decades ago where they secretly only admitted a certain percentage of Jews. I am Jewish by ethnicity but not religious. I am hardly spiritual although my family is. I was wondering if I should put that I am Jewish or if I should put None (atheist, or whatever it lists)

Pros of putting Jewish:
Could create a discussion starter if interviewer is Jewish
Could be looked on favorably if person reading it is Jewish

Cons of putting Jewish:
Possible hidden Jew quotas
Hard-core liberal interviewer who believes that Jews and Israelis are evil people for what they do to palestinians and hold it against me (For those of you wondering, I was interviewing for a Job and the guy who interviewed me went on a rant for how evil "you people" are [referring to Jews] for how they treat the poor palestinians)
Click to expand...
 
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Looks like several posts were deleted from this.. Crisis averted(?)

Anyway, OP, list what you like on your app, but I don't think it's going to be an advantage or disadvantage.
 
I think mentioning religion on your app is always a bad idea unless you are Adventist and applying to Loma Linda, or Jewish and applying to Einstein/Sinai.

But, by listing it on your AMCAS, all the schools will see it. I'm faithful too, but I didn't mention it on my application, especially because if it IS brought up in my interview, I might get off track, like OP very quickly did in his diatribe about Palestinian/Israeli issues.

For example, as a normal person, I wouldn't have any issue with you mentioning Judaism on your app. However, if we discussed it, and OP abruptly told me how relieved he is that I'm not a right wing Palestine sympathizer, I'd think this isn't the guy for my school.


Basically: mention it on secondary apps where it's helpful.
 
If you were involved with your Jewish heritage (in your activities, for instance), let THAT tell the story. If not, I can't even think of a place where an AMCAS applicant is even asked their religion.
 
Please don't list Jewish unless you must.

There is discrimination, as an observant Jew I experienced this at MULTIPLE schools even when I wasn't wearing kippah or tzitzit. The Gentleman's agreement still occurs.

I had one interviewer tell me that their school did have a quota on Jewish students and said they had one Jew and "that was enough" and went off about the state of Israel and how much it should not exist for 45 min of a 1 hour interview. I had another school tell me I was too observant to ever be accepted (yet my rabbi's nephew went there.) Those both were last year. This year, one of my interviews were so hostile about the Jewish thing that I had to ask for a new interview. My other school had both interviewers get on me for being Jewish. Positive thing is that it drew attention away from another weirder thing on my app.

No questions asked about religion, but one of my activities showed I was active in the Jewish community and my transcript shows I studied in Israel and I had a letter from a rabbi (I also had a LOR from a minister as well).
 
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familyaerospace said:
Please don't list Jewish unless you must.

There is discrimination, as an observant Jew I experienced this at MULTIPLE schools even when I wasn't wearing kippah or tzitzit. The Gentleman's agreement still occurs.

I had one interviewer tell me that their school did have a quota on Jewish students and said they had one Jew and "that was enough" and went off about the state of Israel and how much it should not exist for 45 min of a 1 hour interview. I had another school tell me I was too observant to ever be accepted (yet my rabbi's nephew went there.) Those both were last year. This year, one of my interviews were so hostile about the Jewish thing that I had to ask for a new interview. My other school had both interviewers get on me for being Jewish. Positive thing is that it drew attention away from another weirder thing on my app.
Click to expand...

It is this I am afraid of. I know of course there isn't an official quota, but I don't doubt some places unofficially have one.
 
Only if you're applying to Einstein or the Touros
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It might help at Touro, but I suspect that it's true only to the extent that they favor their own undergraduates. I don't think it would help at Einstein or Sinai. Both schools have national appeal and have diverse student bodies. I doubt that the percentage of the student body that's Jewish exceeds the Jewish percentage of either the local population, or the percentage of Jewish applicants. I also doubt that the GPAs and MCATs of the accepted Jewish students is lower than that of the average applicant, which would demonstrate a positive bias.

It may or may not still be the 1920's, or 1950's or 1960's for Jewish applicants, as those statistics are not published. It certainly still is the 1920's for Asian students, who average higher GPAs and MCAT scores than whites. Based on that fact alone, it's clear that there are still quotas for some, official or not.

I had one interviewer tell me that their school did have a quota on Jewish students and said they had one Jew and "that was enough" and went off about the state of Israel and how much it should not exist for 45 min of a 1 hour interview. I had another school tell me I was too observant to ever be accepted (yet my rabbi's nephew went there.) Those both were last year. This year, one of my interviews were so hostile about the Jewish thing that I had to ask for a new interview. My other school had both interviewers get on me for being Jewish.
Click to expand...

The odds are that your impressions of hostility at those interviews is accurate, but perhaps some of that was a stress interview technique? Of course, even if it was, it's inappropriate and demonstrates prejudice. But perhaps they just wanted to see what you would say? Did any of those schools accept you or wait list you? Were they in the south?
 
bc65 said:
Were they in the south?
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She is from Georgia and primarily applied in the South. This is not a surprising thing to find in the South. Definitely exception and not the rule in academia.

In the Northeast and west coast, as was previously mentions, there are plenty of Jews in high administrative positions at large academic centers. In my current office at a top law school, 50% of the staff are Jews. It is hard to conceive of a situation in which being Jewish would work against you at these top schools. If anything, Jews are some of the most tightly knit communities who thrive on helping one another out. I do not see the risk of saying you are Jewish. Then again, AMCAS does not ask for religion, so I don't get this thread?

TL;DR – OP, mention you're a Jew if you want to, unless you are redneck territory based. But AMCAS does not ask for religion, and Jewish is not an ethnicity.
 
jhg1232 said:
how is jewish an ethnicity?! its a religion and they dont ask for religion on amcas.
if youre israeli im guessing youd be considered white??? this thread has to be a joke
Click to expand...

It can be an ethnicity as well as a religion. It's the most well known ethnoreligious group in the world. Google "Jewish ethnic divisions." If you take a DNA test on 23andme it actually will show Ashkenazi Jewish heritage. Ashkenazi has its own culture as Sephardi does as well. There are many others. Converts become the religion but do not always gain the culture (they are supposed to) and of course would not get the DNA.

Israelis are of many races as Israeli is a nationality, not an ethnicitiy. You can be any religion and be Israeli

Example

I was raised Ashkenazi culturally despite the fact I was not raised Jewish by religion (I was raised Catholic). I wanted to convert, took lessons for 16+ years and had people say there was no reason to convert because I was more Jewish (culturally/ethnically) than anyone. They finally took me to mikvah to convert (making me a Jew by religion). So now I was Jewish by religion and culture. The next Pesach, my maternal grandmother confessed a secret which DNA evidence and a lot of sleuthing confirmed... that there was a Jewish background on her side (both Ashkenazi and Sephardi) which made me a Jew by DNA as well as religion and culture. I'm the descendant of a Sephardic Jew who slept with his black slave and the decendent married an Ashkenazi woman, both of which stopped practicing.

Since I have my Jewish identity paperwork, I can get Israeli citizenship. Separate deal.
 
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familyaerospace said:
It can be an ethnicity as well as a religion. It's the most well known ethnoreligious group in the world. Google "Jewish ethnic divisions." If you take a DNA test on 23andme it actually will show Ashkenazi Jewish heritage. Ashkenazi has its own culture as Sephardi does as well. There are many others. Converts become the religion but do not always gain the culture (they are supposed to) and of course would not get the DNA.

Israelis are of many races as Israeli is a nationality, not an ethnicitiy. You can be any religion and be Israeli

Example

I was raised Ashkenazi culturally despite the fact I was not raised Jewish by religion (I was raised Catholic). I wanted to convert, took lessons for 16+ years and had people say there was no reason to convert because I was more Jewish (culturally/ethnically) than anyone. They finally took me to mikvah to convert (making me a Jew by religion). So now I was Jewish by religion and culture. The next Pesach, my maternal grandmother confessed a secret which DNA evidence and a lot of sleuthing confirmed... that there was a Jewish background on her side (both Ashkenazi and Sephardi) which made me a Jew by DNA as well as religion and culture. I'm the descendant of a Sephardic Jew who slept with his black slave and the decendent married an Ashkenazi woman, both of which stopped practicing.

Since I have my Jewish identity paperwork, I can get Israeli citizenship. Separate deal.
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that doesnt make sense to me, if you look at other countries in that region, turkey, lebanon, iran, etc they all have different cultures but as an ethnicity are still considered white...culture isnt ethnicity. i looked at the wikipedia for "jewish ethnic divisions" and they all just say the different types of jews came from different countries. that does not make itself an ethnicity. they even include north african jews. if the person was black from morocco for example their ethnicity would be black, not "moroccan jew"
 
jhg1232 said:
that doesnt make sense to me, if you look at other countries in that region, turkey, lebanon, iran, etc they all have different cultures but as an ethnicity are still considered white...culture isnt ethnicity. i looked at the wikipedia for "jewish ethnic divisions" and they all just say the different types of jews came from different countries. that does not make itself an ethnicity. they even include north african jews. if the person was black from morocco for example their ethnicity would be black, not "moroccan jew"
Click to expand...

I would then recommend then going back to school and taking anthropology 101 if you don't understand.

Moroccan Jews are primarily considered Sephardi (Spanish Jew) as are most of the Jews in the region surrounding Israel. Eastern European Jews are usually Ashkenazi. There are several other ethnic groupings and some of which most certainly are not white but are all different ethnic groups within Judaism. Race and ethnicity are not always the same thing... Just think about how Hispanic works. You can be non-Hispanic white, Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, Hispanic black.

There are a lot of black Israelis so saying they are all white is not correct even if that is what amcas seems to think. One of my favorite people in Jerusalem is a black Israeli Jew. Her ethnicity is Ashkenazi. Her race is black. Her religion is Orthodox Judaism. All this is written in her Israeli paperwork.

Here is a link to ethno religious groups : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group

And I don't know what you were googling because here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions Which confirms what I said. Modern divisions section confirms what I said above about Ashkenazi and Sephardi and how all of it works.

"
Jewish ethnic divisions refers to a number of distinctive communities within the world's ethnically Jewish population. Although considered one single self-identifying ethnicity, there are distinctive ethnic divisions among Jews, most of which are primarily the result of geographic branching from an originating Israelite population, mixing with local populations, and subsequent independent evolutions.[1][2]".

Direct from wiki
 
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Guys...nobody cares about technicalities about classifying different kinds of Jews. OP – mention if you want. Don't mention if you don't want. It won't matter at all and if it does, you don't want to go to that school anyway
 
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