Should I plan for a ortho Research Year?

[premedpower8484848]

Hey all,

I am an MS2 so I know it might be a bit early to get stressed but I am very interested in applying to ortho. I am from a top 50 school on the east coast.

With step being P/F I know our apps will be judged primarily on Step 2, Rotations, Letters, and Research. Talking with some older Med student who are now research fellows who didn’t match into Ortho the past cycle has stressed me out, especially regarding research.

With my current projects by the end of April, which is when my rotations start, I estimate that I will have 5 pubs (one second author, two 3rd authors, one 4th author, and one 5th author), three second author abstracts, 1 conference, 1 poster.

I wasn’t really able to get involved in any Student Groups due to some personal family matters my first two years, so research is my primary activity. I am now studying for Step 1 so I can’t take on any new projects and have heard doing research during rotations is really difficult.

Do I have enough research with step now being P/F or should I plan on taking a research year after year 3? I know that not having any 1st author manuscripts in a field like ortho is not the best but I’m just really not sure what to do.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Hey all,

I am an MS2 so I know it might be a bit early to get stressed but I am very interested in applying to ortho. I am from a top 50 school on the east coast.

With step being P/F I know our apps will be judged primarily on Step 2, Rotations, Letters, and Research. Talking with some older Med student who are now research fellows who didn’t match into Ortho the past cycle has stressed me out, especially regarding research.

With my current projects by the end of April, which is when my rotations start, I estimate that I will have 5 pubs (one second author, two 3rd authors, one 4th author, and one 5th author), three second author abstracts, 1 conference, 1 poster.

I wasn’t really able to get involved in any Student Groups due to some personal family matters my first two years, so research is my primary activity. I am now studying for Step 1 so I can’t take on any new projects and have heard doing research during rotations is really difficult.

Do I have enough research with step now being P/F or should I plan on taking a research year after year 3? I know that not having any 1st author manuscripts in a field like ortho is not the best but I’m just really not sure what to do.

I am a current MS2 as well with two 3rd author publications, a few 4th author pubs in the pipeline, and I am working on a 1st author publication right now which I expect to take me up until I apply my 4th year, so we are in a very similar situation. For what it is worth, I am not too stressed and don't plan on doing a research year. I am realistically hoping to have 5-6 publications by the time I apply. I have talked to two PD's where one didn't really emphasize research and more so emphasized away rotations. The other PD (my home) basically said it's impossible to read through everyone's papers so just get your name on as many as possible. It's sad that quantity is valued over quality, but it's just the game that must be played I suppose. Anyways, I think at the end of the day they will look at the entirety of your application and also judge you much based on your away rotations/letters of recommendation. So yes having research is important, but in my opinion having 3 pubs and an otherwise solid applications should not be the reason you do not match. Just like having 30 publications would not guarantee you a match. This is of course half observation from speaking with PD's/upperclassman and half my own opinion. I would be curious to hear from others as well.

 

[premedpower8484848]

I am a current MS2 as well with two 3rd author publications, a few 4th author pubs in the pipeline, and I am working on a 1st author publication right now which I expect to take me up until I apply my 4th year, so we are in a very similar situation. For what it is worth, I am not too stressed and don't plan on doing a research year. I am realistically hoping to have 5-6 publications by the time I apply. I have talked to two PD's where one didn't really emphasize research and more so emphasized away rotations. The other PD (my home) basically said it's impossible to read through everyone's papers so just get your name on as many as possible. It's sad that quantity is valued over quality, but it's just the game that must be played I suppose. Anyways, I think at the end of the day they will look at the entirety of your application and also judge you much based on your away rotations/letters of recommendation. So yes having research is important, but in my opinion having 3 pubs and an otherwise solid applications should not be the reason you do not match. Just like having 30 publications would not guarantee you a match. This is of course half observation from speaking with PD's/upperclassman and half my own opinion. I would be curious to hear from others as well.

Yeah exactly I am just not sure about what is needed to be competitive without Step 1.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Unless you plan to match at a top 10 ortho program and profess to them your burning desire to be a research professor, research is a box that you check. You have checked that box. You can also click around some resident pages on programs you'd like to match at and search the residents on pub med. I think you'll find most go into residency with 1-10 papers, many of them "fluff" papers like case reports or honorariums for old faculty or short reviews on "experiences in a [type] hospital."

 

[premedpower8484848]

Unless you plan to match at a top 10 ortho program and profess to them your burning desire to be a research professor, research is a box that you check. You have checked that box. You can also click around some resident pages on programs you'd like to match at and search the residents on pub med. I think you'll find most go into residency with 1-10 papers, many of them "fluff" papers like case reports or honorariums for old faculty or short reviews on "experiences in a [type] hospital."

I agree with you. I guess my biggest question is in regards to Step now being P/F.

Wouldn’t that mean more emphasis on research?

 

[Lawpy]

Ugh i wish this practice of research years ends forever. It just encourages more bloat and feeds into the predatory journal business model

OP, i think you have enough research that a research year isn’t needed

 

[premedpower8484848]

Ugh i wish this practice of research years ends forever. It just encourages more bloat and feeds into the predatory journal business model

OP, i think you have enough research that a research year isn’t needed

I appreciate your input.

Should I work on getting some volunteering/leadership in my last two years?

 

[Browns99]

Ugh i wish this practice of research years ends forever. It just encourages more bloat and feeds into the predatory journal business model

OP, i think you have enough research that a research year isn’t needed

I appreciate your input.

Should I work on getting some volunteering/leadership in my last two years?

OP, are you really going to listen to a poster here (Who clearly sees no benefit in research by his/her posts) that tells you they think you don't need a research year, my gosh. Go and speak to your school advisors, mentors, etc. While there are some great opinions here, they are just that, not the end-all. You need to have a conversation with your mentor(s) and discuss what your plans are, do you want to go into an academic powerhouse and commit to research later, looking for a small community program, etc.

 

[Med Ed]

Hey all,

I am an MS2 so I know it might be a bit early to get stressed but I am very interested in applying to ortho.

How did you acquire this interest as an M2?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Hey all,

I am an MS2 so I know it might be a bit early to get stressed but I am very interested in applying to ortho. I am from a top 50 school on the east coast.

With step being P/F I know our apps will be judged primarily on Step 2, Rotations, Letters, and Research. Talking with some older Med student who are now research fellows who didn’t match into Ortho the past cycle has stressed me out, especially regarding research.

With my current projects by the end of April, which is when my rotations start, I estimate that I will have 5 pubs (one second author, two 3rd authors, one 4th author, and one 5th author), three second author abstracts, 1 conference, 1 poster.

I wasn’t really able to get involved in any Student Groups due to some personal family matters my first two years, so research is my primary activity. I am now studying for Step 1 so I can’t take on any new projects and have heard doing research during rotations is really difficult.

Do I have enough research with step now being P/F or should I plan on taking a research year after year 3? I know that not having any 1st author manuscripts in a field like ortho is not the best but I’m just really not sure what to do.

I think you're doing pretty good, but I also agree you should talk directly with some mentors within the department. It would also be helpful if you could get some direct feedback from the students who failed to match and see what their research output looked like.

 

[premedpower8484848]

OP, are you really going to listen to a poster here (Who clearly sees no benefit in research by his/her posts) that tells you they think you don't need a research year, my gosh. Go and speak to your school advisors, mentors, etc. While there are some great opinions here, they are just that, not the end-all. You need to have a conversation with your mentor(s) and discuss what your plans are, do you want to go into an academic powerhouse and commit to research later, looking for a small community program, etc.

I am talking with some mentors but thought I would reach out here as well for multiple perspectives. I just want to make the best possible decisions.

 

[Lawpy]

OP, are you really going to listen to a poster here (Who clearly sees no benefit in research by his/her posts) that tells you they think you don't need a research year, my gosh. Go and speak to your school advisors, mentors, etc. While there are some great opinions here, they are just that, not the end-all. You need to have a conversation with your mentor(s) and discuss what your plans are, do you want to go into an academic powerhouse and commit to research later, looking for a small community program, etc.

>States research year isn’t necessary for OP who already has enough research

>“Clearly sees no benefit in research”

 

[Browns99]

I am talking with some mentors but thought I would reach out here as well for multiple perspectives. I just want to make the best possible decisions.

Yes, your mentors are by far the better source. That's not to say that the opinions here do not have value, it's just that these are conversations to have with mentors, advisers, attending, etc.

PS- Always remember that some opinions here are based on a person's jaded view because of something that affected him/her possibly in a negative way in the past, whereas mentors will only have your best interest at heart and hopefully give you an honest opinion/advice.

Best of luck

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, your mentors are by far the better source. That's not to say that the opinions here do not have value, it's just that these are conversations to have with mentors, advisers, attending, etc.

PS- Always remember that some opinions here are based on a person's jaded view because of something that affected him/her possibly in a negative way in the past, whereas mentors will only have your best interest at heart and hopefully give you an honest opinion/advice.

Best of luck

I will push back slightly. I completely agree you need a personal mentor in your field, but sometimes they are not in touch with the field nationally and it’s helpful to get outside opinions.

Outside opinions can also be flawed, but more information is usually better than less as long as you then synthesize it together.

 

[premedpower8484848]

Thanks all!

 

[Med Ed]

I will push back slightly. I completely agree you need a personal mentor in your field, but sometimes they are not in touch with the field nationally and it’s helpful to get outside opinions.

Outside opinions can also be flawed, but more information is usually better than less as long as you then synthesize it together.

This. Ideally one gets mentorship that includes young attendings and current residents, who have recent experience with the match. I've seen more than a couple of instances where someone who went through the NRMP in 1965 is dispensing terribly outdated advice.

 

[Aurarice]

As someone who's doing an ortho research fellowship/research year between MS3 and MS4: Don't do a research year unless you're extremely interested in the research or going into academics AND you have limited research availability at your institution.

Your stats are fine. Just focus on doing well on rotations and getting good letters, then crushing STEP2 when you get around to it.