Should I withdraw my application?

[StephanieZ]

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I applied this cycle, but haven't done my secondaries yet and my AMCAs haven't been verified yet. I have weak clinicals and ECs and average numbers, so I'm not holding my breath about getting accepted this cycle. I applied for two reasons though:
1) I figure it never hurts to try
2) I can reapply next year with a stronger app and then I will know the ins and outs of the application process.

I also kind of figured if I apply with a weak app now and get rejected, but come back next year with marked improvements (I intend to retake MCAT and do alot of volunteering/clinical experiences plus other ECs for the next year), it will show that I am dedicated. It's always been my (possibly flawed?) assumption that adcoms like reapps with improvements because it shows perseverance.

But someone told me I should withdraw my application this cycle because having applied and been rejected could put me at a disadvantage if I apply next cycle. Is this true? Will someone who has significantly improved their app and reapplied after rejection be at a disadvantage to someone who submits a good application the first time, assuming the stats of the two people are the same?

If this is the case, I will definitely consider trying to withdraw my app soon. Thanks!

 

[SisterDisco08]

I could repeat everything I already said...but I'll just link you to your own post. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=845231

 

[StephanieZ]

I could repeat everything I already said...but I'll just link you to your own post. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=845231

I know you answered me already, and I appreciate your response, but I'd like a few second opinions before I totally withdraw my app. No disrespect intended.

 

[isoquin]

This is the advice I would recommend:

Honestly I would pull your application, because if YOU have very little confidence in it, chances are adcoms won't either.... Being a re-applicant will put you at a severe disadvantage (I know from experience). When I applied, I didn't even know enough about the app process to know I shouldn't have applied, and in hindsight, I wish I hadn't. Ideally, you want to submit your strongest application ONCE. With a below average MCAT (assuming MD), no clinical, and little EC, your outlook isn't very good. Remember that you are competing with people who are just as good, and even better than you are, and the majority of them don't get in every year. Right now, your application will stand out for all the wrong reasons. You've just told us you have handed them three reasons to pass right by your application, when they don't even really need one.

Using the Temple AdCom guy's analogy, right now you have a less desirable house (MCAT) in an decent/good neighborhood (GPA) with no embellishments/renovations (EC). And to extend it, no lawn/staircase/kitchen/something essential (clinical experience). You don't have too far to go, but I wouldn't say you're ready to apply.

So, I'd:
1) Withdraw before it's verified, so you don't have to be a re-applicant
2) Get on clinical ASAP
3) Get on volunteering ASAP
4) Perhaps re-take the MCAT

The reason to apply and spend the money is if you think you're getting in. Applying for the sake of failing because you think it will look good in comparison when you reapply next year is a poor move.

 

[SisterDisco08]

I know you answered me already, and I appreciate your response, but I'd like a few second opinions before I totally withdraw my app. No disrespect intended.

Of course, get more opinions--it's just a forum faux pas to ask the same thing in multiple threads 🙂

 

[EEC03]

Yes.

 

[sustentacular]

I think you are at a huge disadvantage applying this late without any volunteer experience and a <30 MCAT. Do you have some other part of your app that would make you a stand out candidate? What is your home state?

 

[StephanieZ]

I think you are at a huge disadvantage applying this late without any volunteer experience and a <30 MCAT. Do you have some other part of your app that would make you a stand out candidate? What is your home state?

I'm from Louisiana, applying in Louisiana. I'm not really interested in going over my whole app right now. I am not a strong candidate. This is a hail mary move and I've already accepted that my admission is unlikely.

The reason to apply and spend the money is if you think you're getting in. Applying for the sake of failing because you think it will look good in comparison when you reapply next year is a poor move.

The money is spent. I'm not getting it back:
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/amcas/faqs/147516/amcas_2010_faqs-8.3.html
The $160 deposit is non-refundable. I'm not just applying because I think it will look good. I'm also doing it because, like I said above, it never hurts to try, and I want to be familiar with the app process for next year. I never really thought it would look good to fail and reapply. I just didn't think it would make me look bad. That's my question. Will it make me look bad?

 

[SisterDisco08]

I'm from Louisiana, applying in Louisiana. I'm not really interested in going over my whole app right now. I am not a strong candidate. This is a hail mary move and I've already accepted that my admission is unlikely.

The money is spent. I'm not getting it back:
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/amcas/faqs/147516/amcas_2010_faqs-8.3.html
The $160 deposit is non-refundable.

There are also costs associated with secondary applications, and in some cases those are even more expensive. You will probably get them (and false hope) from almost every school you applied to because the "screens" are very low for most schools (think 24 MCAT, 3.0-3.2 GPA), even though you don't stand a chance. It's another way they make money.

I'm not just applying because I think it will look good. I'm also doing it because, like I said above, it never hurts to try, and I want to be familiar with the app process for next year. I never really thought it would look good to fail and reapply. I just didn't think it would make me look bad. That's my question. Will it make me look bad?

Re-read:

As a reapplicant you're not only competing with people who have just as good/better applications, you're also competing with a pool of applicants who have (for the majority) been able to put together those stellar applications in one try. To many schools "not being good enough to get in the first time" is enough of a reason for them not to consider you as a reapplicant. I'm by no means saying this stigma is correct or justified, but it does exist, and you want to avoid any stigma that could hinder your application.

It's also just more practical to save your money/time.

Also, check out numbers 6 and 7 here. Also peak at the top 5 reasons for getting rejected from med school--I'm seeing three of those in the OP: http://www.umich.edu/~slc/conf/2007/media/mecozzi/rjctapptipstoadvisors.pdf

Some choice portions (your application would fall under "incomplete"): "Sloppy and incomplete applications can also signal arrogance (applicants not taking the process seriously); lack of commitment (not being invested in the process); or disorganization (not having done one's homework). In an arena as competitive as the medical school application process, even little things count and medical school admissions officers are very likely to favor an application that does not present similar flaws as they have so many applications to choose from."

"Every year a number of applicants are not successful in gaining admission to medical school mainly because of their limited or lack of health-related experience. Often these individuals will have difficulties in getting interviews or if and when they get one, they struggle to address their commitment to medicine because of their lack of relevant experiences to support their opinions, beliefs,
and professional plans. Medical schools expect applicants to make a sincere effort to learn more about themselves and the health professions through readings, shadowing of professionals, volunteering in the community, working in clinical settings, and conducting research if at all possible. Of course, individual circumstances vary greatly. For example, in some cases, the limited health-related experience may be the result of lack of time due to financial pressures to work or other family responsibilities. Or they could be the
result of a recent, not thoroughly explored decision to attend medical school. Or they may even be the consequence of individuals' total immersion in their academic pursuits at the expense of other life- and character-shaping experiences. Even in those cases where the academic record is stellar, the lack of health-related experience and exposure can jeopardize the final outcome of an entire application to medical school. Individuals in this situation are advised to pursue employment in and exposure to the health field prior to reapplying."

"Debunk the myth of, "If I reapply right away, it will show how committed I am." "

"If students are determined to reapply to medical school, first and foremost, recommend a consultation with the medical schools where they had applied. Not all medical schools will be receptive, but many will."

In the end, you'll do whatever you want. I'm sorry that we're not giving you advice that's easy to hear, but you will be putting yourself in an even worse position if you have to apply as a reapplicant.

 

[isoquin]

Agreed. The secondary fees are going to be larger than just $160. That's just the start. BU makes well over one million dollars every year on secondary application fees alone. If you want to get familiar with the process, read SDN and write variations of personal statements or secondary application questions, all of which can be found here.

You're giving a lot of excuses for ignoring everyone's advice, and this thread shows you are even going out of your way to ignore the advice you are receiving. This tells me you've already made up your mind but you're nervous about the decision you've made. This is completely understandable. Regret can swell easily if you withdraw. So if I can't appeal to you with reason, I would recommend this compromise: apply to a very small handful of lower tier schools. This would meet your requirement of getting the "experience" while not blowing your money, focusing on the schools that most closely match your stats. Do not be fooled by the belief that applying to more increases your chances like buying more tickets at a local basket raffle. Your stats are what will determine this, not blind luck.

I wish you the best, and do hope you eventually make it to med school. Work hard in the meantime!

 

[StephanieZ]

Okay, first of all, thank you to everyone who has replied so far. I honestly am not trying to be stubborn, or make it seem like I am ignoring your advice. I just want to be as informed as possible before I make any kind of decision on whether or not to withdraw.

isoquin: I am actually only applying to two state schools. I have family obligations that prevent me from going far, so I don't have a choice in the matter anyway. And out of those two, I may just apply to one. The secondary fee for the one I'm applying to is just $50, so I'm not too worried about bleeding more money. Are there other costs I'm not aware of besides secondary fees? That would be helpful to know in making my decision.

SisterDisco08: So are you saying the fact that my application is sloppy this cycle will reflect badly upon me next cycle, even if I apply early next time with improved stats? Will they just see me as arrogant for even trying to apply without clinical exposure, leaving a black mark on my future apps? Number 7 is telling me that medical schools I've applied to and failed may not want to talk to me after that? If that's what you wanted me to get from those lists, those are all valid points.


Forget about me for a second, totally hypothetical question. If two people are applying with identical stats, but one is a first time candidate, and one is a reapplicant, will the reapplicant be at a disadvantage MERELY for having applied previously and been rejected?

 

[isoquin]

First, I would say you need to broaden your applications when you apply again. Limiting yourself to 2 med schools because of any obligation is a bad move. First, it severely restricts your ability to apply to and become accepted at a school that more closely matches your profile. Second, you will not have time for those obligations as a med student. Medicine is a sacrifice. You have a chance of getting in, and I'm happy to help you get there, but that chance is severely reduced if only two schools are ever going to be on your list.

With regard to your final question, it depends. Some people will look down on it, others won't. In either case, it won't really help you. It's my understanding that prior rejections are either neutral or negative.

 

[StephanieZ]

First, I would say you need to broaden your applications when you apply again. Limiting yourself to 2 med schools because of any obligation is a bad move. First, it severely restricts your ability to apply to and become accepted at a school that more closely matches your profile. Second, you will not have time for those obligations as a med student. Medicine is a sacrifice. You have a chance of getting in, and I'm happy to help you get there, but that chance is severely reduced if only two schools are ever going to be on your list.

With regard to your final question, it depends. Some people will look down on it, others won't. In either case, it won't really help you. It's my understanding that prior rejections are either neutral or negative.

Thank you for the direct answer, I appreciate it. If it were at all possible for me to apply broadly, I would jump at the opportunity, trust me. But it's pointless for me to apply to schools I know I won't be able to go to. At least for right now, I am in Louisiana, so it's LSU or bust.

 

[thestrokes14]

If you firmly believe you are going to be rejected, you are probably making the wrong decision by applying this year. I have been told that adcoms will question your judgment if you apply with very, very low chances.

If, however, you think you have a shot, I would go ahead. It probably won't hurt so much, as long as you really strive to improve your application for next year.

 

[MrBird]

Thank you for the direct answer, I appreciate it. If it were at all possible for me to apply broadly, I would jump at the opportunity, trust me. But it's pointless for me to apply to schools I know I won't be able to go to. At least for right now, I am in Louisiana, so it's LSU or bust.

I just don't get you. You know you have a bad app, consciously submitted it late, and purposely applied to a narrow range of schools. And then you say "it never hurts to try." <---makes it seem like despite all the obstacles you put in front of yourself, you still think you have a shot at an acceptance.

There is nothing logical about how you've approached this cycle and no, there is absolutely nothing positive that you have gained from applying this time. Reapplying with better stats in comparison to your current unremarkable ones does not make your application look even better than if you had only applied once with a good app. Also, I understand that you have circumstances that prevent you from leaving your state for medical school, but applying to only 1 school is just plain stupid unless you have a truly jaw-dropping application and the school you're applying to is Meharry, Morehouse, or a Caribbean institution.

What were you thinking?
If you're going to be stubborn about where to go to school, this isn't going to work out for you at all, and it's time to think about other professions. I'm being absolutely serious.

 

[SisterDisco08]

SisterDisco08: So are you saying the fact that my application is sloppy this cycle will reflect badly upon me next cycle, even if I apply early next time with improved stats?

You will probably be seen as naive. Showing growth is important and good, but I don't think it helps much when you're being compared with people who did it right the first time.

Will they just see me as arrogant for even trying to apply without clinical exposure, leaving a black mark on my future apps?

Yes. Obviously it could be overcome in future apps, but it will likely be brought up during the decision making process.

Number 7 is telling me that medical schools I've applied to and failed may not want to talk to me after that? If that's what you wanted me to get from those lists, those are all valid points.

Some schools will not consider you, or will not consider you for a period of years after applying the first time. My person experience: even though I was an honors UMichigan grad (with a letter from the head of fam med there), UMich didn't even read my app last year. When I had a consultation with the director of admissions there, he told me not to even think about applying there again for at least one year of heavy graduate work, along with an MCAT retake. And that doesn't just go for top schools--you will have to check with whatever schools you're interested in if you get rejected as to how they view re-applicants, and if they think you have strengthened your app enough to apply. Reapplication consultation was the first thing I did when I didn't end up getting off my waitlist, and it was very insightful.

Forget about me for a second, totally hypothetical question. If two people are applying with identical stats, but one is a first time candidate, and one is a reapplicant, will the reapplicant be at a disadvantage MERELY for having applied previously and been rejected?

Again, it depends on the school, but in general, being a re-applicant is an uphill battle, because you're being compared with people who presumably got everything right on the first try.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get in as a re-applicant, or else I'd be SOL. A lot depends on your circumstances (nontrad, etc). But it is certainly more difficult. Also, if you applied to completely different schools during a second cycle, you would not need to release the information that you are a reapplicant.

If you really feel like you need to, go a head and shoot out a few apps and get some feedback. They're probably going to tell you just what we did--except we did it for free, and without putting any stigma in your app file.

 

[sustentacular]

I'm from Louisiana, applying in Louisiana. I'm not really interested in going over my whole app right now. I am not a strong candidate. This is a hail mary move and I've already accepted that my admission is unlikely. .... I'm also doing it because, like I said above, it never hurts to try, and I want to be familiar with the app process for next year. I never really thought it would look good to fail and reapply. I just didn't think it would make me look bad. That's my question. Will it make me look bad?

I don't think you should withdraw your app. If you are just applying to your home state.. LA, which shows pretty strong instate preference then go for it. The additional secondary fees are a drop in the bucket.

Being a re-applicant is really not a big deal (until you start applying a 3rd and 4th time), as long as you do something to improve your app for the second round and don't mind spending the money.