should there be any age limit on MDprogram?

[MDpride]

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I believe 35 should be the max. age for acceptance to med school?

this is because, they won't be practicing and paying back loans until atleast 43 if they don't go for fellowship.
that leaves 22yrs. of practice and may be more if there faculties support them that long.

age discrimination is bad but return to the society has to be taken in to consideration.

 

[NJDIF]

so that person wouldnt save even one life over the course of 22 years? i dont understand.

 

[glamqueen]

How old are you? 15 and in high school? Seriously...TROLL

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

Please don't feed the troll.

 

[greel9]

Haha

 

[bodonid]

not a troll, but not correct either.

 

[Maxprime]

Awesome resoning - 35 is perfect. I would highly appreciate it if you could arbitrarily come up with a fix for the US healthcare crisis.

 

[fisko82]

Terrible thread. Better luck next time.

 

[MDpride]

Awesome resoning - 35 is perfect. I would highly appreciate it if you could arbitrarily come up with a fix for the US healthcare crisis.

One day I will.
BUt that won't be arbitrary.

 

[HumidBeing]

Age discrimination isn't "bad". It's illegal.

If you're going to take "return to society" into consideration when determining medical decisions, then you're wallowing in the waters of deciding who deserves what medical treatment depending on their potential future contributions to society. I know that you weren't thinking along those lines, but about someone 'taking a space that could be filled by someone younger'.

Something you're missing is that people's lives don't just go on hold from 21 to 35. Those matriculants who you propose eliminating have been experiencing life, growing, and making contributions to society in ways that younger applicants cannot have achieved. They are not taking someone else's spot. They are strong applicants on their own.

65 is an arbitrary age for retirement just because our SS system is set up to start paying off retirement benefits at that age. People live longer, in better health, than when that first started. Most who wish to stay actively involved in their work are capable of doing so for long after that. I strongly doubt that most physicians heavily base their decisions to retire on when can collect their SS checks.

 

[xiaoyi666]

Easy for everyone to call names around here. So quick to call ppl trolls, very accepting community.

The OP has a valid point, I think what the OP really wanted to do was raise the issue of return to society and the economic cost of training a doctor today. No need to bash him for raising a valid point.

Go speak with a health economist or do some research before bashing the OP and you might learn that while it might not be the most pressing issue, it is a concern when physician training are taken into account.

 

[dd128]

I would say even if they had one good year after residency of helping people it would have been worthwhile.

 

[prettymonkey]

medical school is not free. Most people pay around $35,000 a year in tuition so its not like society is footing the bill. if we decided that age was a valid admission criteria then the younger the better. why stop at 35? those under 22 should be given preference regardless of whether someone has more experiences or education that could be beneficial as a physician. also, people should be asked how long they are planning to practice. some people retire at 65 while others practice until their 80's. another thing: what about maternity leave? women should not be allowed into medical school if they are planning on having multiple children. it's all about quantity of years of practice, not quality. it's hard to get into medical school regardless of age. if someone has the determination and dedication to do it at 80 i am impressed.

 

[Jolie South]

if someone finds that medicine interests them at a later age, i think they should go for it. what's the big deal? they're footing the bill and who knows what contributions they will make to the field.

 

[etf]

just treat age as the third quantitative factor, besides gpa and mcat. that way, people on sdn complaining that they got a 40 will actually have a valid reason for thinking they won't get into med school.

 

[xiaoyi666]

just treat age as the third quantitative factor, besides gpa and mcat. that way, people on sdn complaining that they got a 40 will actually have a valid reason for thinking they won't get into med school.

LOL 🙂

 

[nowanmd]

I've been a board certified internist for 9 years- 5 of them in the inner city. Life doesn't end even at age 50 🙂

 

[zenlike]

You lose diversity if you exclude older students.

 

[Doc Henry]

WOW!!!

My first thought when I read this was an age limit for the YOUNGEST you can enter medical school. If anything, I think that would be more reasonable. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a 16 or 17 year old has the emotional maturity necessary for medical school

 

[underpressure]

I hate to say it but i agree with the op on this one. I get annoyed when I see people in their late 30's and 40's in med school. While its nice they have a new interest in medicine I think there are other ways they can choose to express that. Every spot thats filled by some 40 year old guy that wants to change his life around means some kid who could be in practice much longer doesn't get a spot. Personally I would hate to not get into medical school after dreaming about it my entire life and working my butt off in college to get there so that someone else can practice for 10 years and retire. I think older applicants that are interested in medicine can do other things rather than taking a spot away from someone who has been working to get into medical school their entire life.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

I hate to say it but i agree with the op on this one. I get annoyed when I see people in their late 30's and 40's in med school. While its nice they have a new interest in medicine I think there are other ways they can choose to express that. Every spot thats filled by some 40 year old guy that wants to change his life around means some kid who could be in practice much longer doesn't get a spot. Personally I would hate to not get into medical school after dreaming about it my entire life and working my butt off in college to get there so that someone else can practice for 10 years and retire. I think older applicants that are interested in medicine can do other things rather than taking a spot away from someone who has been working to get into medical school their entire life.

What about the 40 year old who has been working his or her whole life to get into medical school? There are plenty of older applicants that have always wanted to be a doctor but life circumstances happened and they couldn't start school at 22. If you think about it, from your reasoning, some of the 40 year olds out there should be more worthy of medical school b/c they have been dreaming about it and working to get there longer than you have!

 

[prettymonkey]

I hate to say it but i agree with the op on this one. I get annoyed when I see people in their late 30's and 40's in med school. While its nice they have a new interest in medicine I think there are other ways they can choose to express that. Every spot thats filled by some 40 year old guy that wants to change his life around means some kid who could be in practice much longer doesn't get a spot. Personally I would hate to not get into medical school after dreaming about it my entire life and working my butt off in college to get there so that someone else can practice for 10 years and retire. I think older applicants that are interested in medicine can do other things rather than taking a spot away from someone who has been working to get into medical school their entire life.

just because someone is in their 30's and just starting medical school does not mean that they did not have this "dream" their entire life. sometimes things happen: people don't get in, they get other degrees, they get a job, they have kids, and then they reapply. it does not mean that they ever lost sight of their ultimate goal. the idea that you are more qualified because you dreamed about it "your whole life" and "worked your butt off in COLLEGE to get there" is ridiculous. it's not like people in their 30's and 40's get a free ticket to medical school. they need good stats just like a 22 year old.

 

[prettymonkey]

What about the 40 year old who has been working his or her whole life to get into medical school? There are plenty of older applicants that have always wanted to be a doctor but life circumstances happened and they couldn't start school at 22. If you think about it, from your reasoning, some of the 40 year olds out there should be more worthy of medical school b/c they have been dreaming about it and working to get there longer than you have!

hello thought twin.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

hello thought twin.

I'm just happy someone else is on the same wave link here!! =0)

 

[underpressure]

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years. If your main goal in life is to have children and put a career off until later I personally don't feel you have any business going to medical school. I may not have as much life experience as an older applicant but my number one priority in life is getting into medical school and if thats not how you feel there are plenty of 22-30 year olds that do and would be happy to take that spot so you can go make more babies or try out another job.

 

[prettymonkey]

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years. If your main goal in life is to have children and put a career off until later I personally don't feel you have any business going to medical school. I may not have as much life experience as an older applicant but my number one priority in life is getting into medical school and if thats not how you feel there are plenty of 22-30 year olds that do and would be happy to take that spot so you can go make more babies or try out another job.

the thing is that if you do not get into medical school on your first try, you need to do some stuff to strengthen your application. this usually takes years. most people do want to do other things apart from being a doctor. some people may choose to take an extra couple years and get married, start a family etc. when they reapply they are ready to start their career and are actually more prepared than the 21 year olds. there is nothing wrong with this. you aren't planning to have a family or anything outside medicine?

 

[underpressure]

I don't think it takes decades to strengthen an application. I eventually want to have a family as well but medical school is much more important right now. I don't see any need to rush into marriage or children those things are a lot easier to come by than an acceptance letter.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years. If your main goal in life is to have children and put a career off until later I personally don't feel you have any business going to medical school. I may not have as much life experience as an older applicant but my number one priority in life is getting into medical school and if thats not how you feel there are plenty of 22-30 year olds that do and would be happy to take that spot so you can go make more babies or try out another job.

There are so many things other than having children that could delay your entry to medical school. It shouldn't matter how long you practice, but what you do with your practice.

 

[prettymonkey]

I don't think it takes decades to strengthen an application. I eventually want to have a family as well but medical school is much more important right now. I don't see any need to rush into marriage or children those things are a lot easier to come by than an acceptance letter.

we are not talking about decades. 35-22=13. this is enough time to collect yourself (1 year) get a masters degree (2 years) do some meaningful research (2 years) get married and have a child while working (3 years) restudy for the MCAT while holding a job and taking care of child (1 year) reapply while working (1 year) ok that is 10 years. puts you at 32. 35 equals more time for whatever. how old are you?

 

[HumidBeing]

Underpressure, you are not doing a very good job of arguing your point. Nobody said that their main goal in life was to have children and put off a career until later. Where did that idea come from?

More often non-trads are highly educated people who have spent their time in other professional or medical fields and/or community/international service who have reached a point where they feel that medicine is the proper path to pursue. I don't know any who have taken to it on a whim over empty-nest syndrome. These more mature applicants often bring a lot to the table which more than makes up for the zeal of youth.

 

[underpressure]

I'm 22 and I understand that some people want to do other things with their lives and thats great. I just have to question how important medical school really is to someone who chooses to put 10 years worth of stuff before trying to be a doctor. I have plenty of other goals and things I would like to accomplish in my life, but finishing medical school first is much more important to me. Since there are more than 2 applicants for every one available spot I personally would like to see those spots go to people that make medicine a strong priority and not something they would like to do eventually.

 

[prettymonkey]

I'm 22 and I understand that some people want to do other things with their lives and thats great. I just have to question how important medical school really is to someone who chooses to put 10 years worth of stuff before trying to be a doctor. I have plenty of other goals and things I would like to accomplish in my life, but finishing medical school first is much more important to me. Since there are more than 2 applicants for every one available spot I personally would like to see those spots go to people that make medicine a strong priority and not something they would like to do eventually.

where are you going to medical school next year?

 

[underpressure]

I'll let you know when I figure it out.

 

[prettymonkey]

I'll let you know when I figure it out.

you have so many acceptances you dont know what to do.🙄 you're so young they all want you.

 

[underpressure]

I'm not saying don't let in older applicants at all. I don't want to argue with anyone but perhaps I just can't understand the situation from the perspective of an older applicant because I will never be in that position.

 

[HumidBeing]

. Since there are more than 2 applicants for every one available spot I personally would like to see those spots go to people that make medicine a strong priority and not something they would like to do eventually.

For older applicants, it usually IS a strong, and very well thought out priority. The decision to change life direction is not an easy one. When an older person decides that this is the path to try, he has also taken the years necessary to do the prereqs and prep for MCAT before submitting an application. Often people have plans, but life DOES get in the way. Not everyone can take a direct path through school and into med school.

BTW, I am younger than you, if that has any bearing on how you interpret my post.

 

[underpressure]

you have so many acceptances you dont know what to do. you're so young they all want you.

Haha I wish! I'm still waiting to hear back from a number of places where I interviewed.

 

[prettymonkey]

I'm not saying don't let in older applicants at all. I don't want to argue with anyone but perhaps I just can't understand the situation from the perspective of an older applicant because I will never be in that position.

you sound very open and willing to learn.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

I dont think that for the older applicants, 35+, that its that they want to start another career and family before medical school, I think its that they have an experience later on in life that fuels their desire to start medical school.

Contrary to what some ppl think, not everyone knows what they want to do when they are 5 years old.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

I'm 22 and I understand that some people want to do other things with their lives and thats great. I just have to question how important medical school really is to someone who chooses to put 10 years worth of stuff before trying to be a doctor. I have plenty of other goals and things I would like to accomplish in my life, but finishing medical school first is much more important to me. Since there are more than 2 applicants for every one available spot I personally would like to see those spots go to people that make medicine a strong priority and not something they would like to do eventually.

Wow, so you think that once you go to medical school and become a doctor you'll have time to do all of the things that people who go to medical school later did between undergrad and medical school. I don't know you at all, but based on these few quotes is seems like you want to do medical school and not be a doctor.

When I see people choosing to do things before medical school that will make them a better doctor (a masters, working, volunteering, international services, etc) I often think that there should be a requirement for all med students to get some life experience before going to medical school.

Is it safe to assume you'll graduate in May and start (or want to start) med school this fall? If that is true, the only thing you know about the world is how to be a student. I'm not saying this won't make you a bad doctor, I'm sure you'll be a good doctor. But if you take a few years to work and learn what it is really like to be a citizen of the world, then you can be setting yourself up to be an AMAZING doctor instead of just a good one.

Not wanting older people to start medical school will only deprive this world of incredible physicians, not make it easier for younger folks to get in. I remember the first time I applied, back in 2002, I was told flat out by all of my undergrad advisors to take a year off between undergrad and applying because medical schools prefer people to have life experience. That was actually the standard thought and biggest fear for all of my pre-med friends, that high GPA's and MCAT scores wouldn't be enough to make up for a lack of experience. This isn't talked about enough on this board.

 

[underpressure]

I mean its none of my business to tell someone they're doing it wrong, and I really have no business judging them for doing it another way. However, I still stand by my opinion.

 

[underpressure]

HrvatskiDoktor you have an interesting point, but I personally do not feel deprived of life experience. I have always taken advantage of the opportunities in front of me and have seen more of the world than many people twice my age. I have dedicated myself to community service and volunteer work since I started high school, and I have been working since I was 12. I'm sure there are plenty of thinks that I will miss out on by going to medical school early, but thats a sacrifice I am willing to make to be a doctor. Anything I want to do now I can do as a doctor later on.

 

[prettymonkey]

HrvatskiDoktor you have an interesting point, but I personally do not feel deprived of life experience. I have always taken advantage of the opportunities in front of me and have seen more of the world than many people twice my age. I have dedicated myself to community service and volunteer work since I started high school, and I have been working since I was 12. I'm sure there are plenty of thinks that I will miss out on by going to medical school early, but thats a sacrifice I am willing to make to be a doctor. Anything I want to do now I can do as a doctor later on.

you have it all figured out. that must feel so good. where do you think you want to go to school based on the acceptances you have so far or expect?

 

[underpressure]

I get the feeling you aren't being too sincere. But to answer your question I would like to stay in New Jersey.

 

[sunny1]

I'm 22 and I understand that some people want to do other things with their lives and thats great. I just have to question how important medical school really is to someone who chooses to put 10 years worth of stuff before trying to be a doctor. I have plenty of other goals and things I would like to accomplish in my life, but finishing medical school first is much more important to me. Since there are more than 2 applicants for every one available spot I personally would like to see those spots go to people that make medicine a strong priority and not something they would like to do eventually.

If there are 2 applicants for every one spot, does that mean the 20 or 21 year old is then more deserving of the spot than you as a 22 year old? I mean, you might even be 23 by the time you matriculate. Surely they would be more deserving since they didn't take extra time to do other stuff according to your argument.

You have to consider that once someone decides (or finally is able or gains the confidence) to pursue medical school at a later age, often they have to factor in about 2 years to complete prerequisites and get ready to apply. Given that, plus time spent in another job realizing it wasn't for them, a graduate degree in some cases, perhaps another job to see if medicine was right for them, sprinkle in a kid along the way, and 10 years can go by quickly.

I think it's ok to have your own opinions about the ideal path to medicine, but to transfer that judgment to a person and deem them of relative lower value for admittance or question their dedication belies a limited understanding of life and the varied motivations behind pursuing medicine.

 

[Wylde]

OP: A certain percent of our graduating med students die, dont practice, raise a family instead, change careers, blah blah.

The small percentage of people want to pursue a career in medicine after a certain age (ie 40) is pretty minimal. The return they lose by practicing 2x less years is so stupidly small!

This is a free country, if you want to pursue a different career you should be able to whenever you want!!!!

 

[alwaysaangel]

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years. If your main goal in life is to have children and put a career off until later I personally don't feel you have any business going to medical school. I may not have as much life experience as an older applicant but my number one priority in life is getting into medical school and if thats not how you feel there are plenty of 22-30 year olds that do and would be happy to take that spot so you can go make more babies or try out another job.

Medicine is a job. We apply, we pursue, its what we want - but in the end, its a job.

Having the number one priority being medicine is nice - but it wouldn't make for very diverse classes. Frankly, I would HATE to be in a medical school like that - there would be nothing for me to learn from my classmates if everyone of them had done nothing but pursue medicine for 21 years. BORING.

The older students in my class are some of the most interesting, hard-working students I know. They will be incredible doctors and will be able to relate to their patients better because they lived before they became doctors.

You haven't made your point at all other than saying its what you think, and the stance of "medicine should be number 1 or else" is fairly closed-minded. I think you'll find about half of the people in medical school wouldn't say that medicine was number 1, probably most wouldn't. Hell, its not even in my top 3. Its a job, and while its nice that you look at it as some holy calling, most of the rest of us look at it as a job. And as such, there's no reason someone shouldn't, couldn't, or wouldn't pursue that job later in life.

 

[prettymonkey]

I get the feeling you aren't being too sincere. But to answer your question I would like to stay in New Jersey.

good for you!

 

[underpressure]

Sunny1 you obviously only read a portion of what I had to say because I am not judging anyone or saying they are wrong for doing something differently. I was simply voicing my opinion and thats all it is, an opinion. I was not trying to put anyone down.

alwaysangel if medicine is not that important why bother? There are plenty of people that would be glad to take that spot. Also, I am not commenting on the ability of an older applicant to be a great doctor or anything else of the sort.

 

[prettymonkey]

what happened to the op anyway?