Sliding Scale a Myth??

BU Medical Sciences
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There is no concrete answer because every medical school is looking for something different. At alot of medical schools, the sliding scale is more based off of ECs. Anything lower than a 3.2 will really affect you. MCAT can be swayed a little more. I believe a lower MCAT can be made up for with good ECs, much more than it can make up for a low GPA.
 
I don't think there are any generalizable answers to these questions. I think MCAT and GPA can modify each other to some extent, but both have to be acceptable. What does that mean? I don't know.
 
My experience says med schools have limits on both MCAT and GPA. If both your GPA and MCAT are within their range, one can compensate for the other. But they will also take into affect your school, your academic program, ECs etc. But generally speaking, GPA and MCAT can overcome each other.

However, if you went to a well known program and you had a lousy GPA and a good MCAT, my experience indicates that is not as bad as coming from a lousy school with a lousy GPA and a good MCAT. Just my personal experience. I'm sure someone will chime with contrasting stories.

A good GPA will also cover a bad MCAT, but only to a certain extent. If your good GPA is because you took a bunch of easy humanities courses or baby bio courses or any other nonscience courses, that's not going to cut it either. Med schools want to see you excell in your science classes.
 
The formula is GPA x 10 + MCAT + X factor. That incorporates a sliding scale of some kind. But basically you can theorize all you want. The only way to know your chances to get into med school is to apply to med school.
 
I think how it works is that many schools have a specific GPA and MCAT cut off for students they will interview right off the bat, All the remaining apps are then looked on through a case by case basis in order to fill up the remianing interview spots

Therefore if you miss the initial cut off, you still have the possibility of obtaining an interview depending on the rest of your extracurriculars, ps, and how well your MCAT compensates for a low GPA or vice versa,

But thats just a hypothesis
 
But regardless of any hypothesis I guess that X-factor/crapshoot phenomenon means that anything is possible
 
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chaeymaey said:
The formula is GPA x 10 + MCAT + X factor. That incorporates a sliding scale of some kind. But basically you can theorize all you want. The only way to know your chances to get into med school is to apply to med school.
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Yes it is totally a myth. And there is no such rigid formula as the above used at most schools, although some who screen may use certain cutoffs. (Folks with stellar scores who don't get in pre-interview are a testament to the fact that the above doesn't hold water). Bottom line -- you need to do well in both, and if you are below the acceptable range in one or the other, you are expected to fix it with either more courses in a postbac (to raise GPA) or via an MCAT retake. You cannot expect to bail one out with the other. Sorry.
 
Law2Doc said:
Yes it is totally a myth. And there is no such rigid formula as the above used at most schools, although some who screen may use certain cutoffs. (Folks with stellar scores who don't get in pre-interview are a testament to the fact that the above doesn't hold water). Bottom line -- you need to do well in both, and if you are below the acceptable range in one or the other, you are expected to fix it with either more courses in a postbac (to raise GPA) or via an MCAT retake. You cannot expect to bail one out with the other. Sorry.
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Yeah I agree with this.

I'll also add that I think a really high MCAT could compensate for a low gpa if there is another part of the application that is equally impressive. For example, you completed a post bacc and masters with a 4.0, got a 39 MCAT, but still have a 3.2 gpa. Then, it helps....but you need the other moderating factors.
 
Zoom-Zoom said:
Yeah I agree with this.

I'll also add that I think a really high MCAT could compensate for a low gpa if there is another part of the application that is equally impressive. For example, you completed a post bacc and masters with a 4.0, got a 39 MCAT, but still have a 3.2 gpa. Then, it helps....but you need the other moderating factors.
Click to expand...

Even in that example it's not clear they are looking at the undergrad GPA at all -- they are focussing on the postbac/masters track record. So while the MCAT is icing on the cake, it may not be balancing out anything here.
 
drmax said:
OK ONCE AND FOR ALL... IS THERE A SLIDING SCALE?

Can a 3.9/4.0 make up for a lousy MCAT?

Can a 3.2 be offset by a 35 MCAT?

We want answers!
Click to expand...

I saw your mdapp profile. Wow, your MCAT is really good. Have you gotten many Cs and if so did you attempt to retake?

//trayce
 
drmax said:
OK ONCE AND FOR ALL... IS THERE A SLIDING SCALE?

Can a 3.9/4.0 make up for a lousy MCAT?

Can a 3.2 be offset by a 35 MCAT?

We want answers!
Click to expand...



The latter seems to be more successful than the former.
 
tracy34 said:
I saw your mdapp profile. Wow, your MCAT is really good. Have you gotten many Cs and if so did you attempt to retake?

//trayce
Click to expand...

I have 2 C+'s.

One was freshman year...intro chem. I was discouraged from retaking bc they claimed that I had very little chance of improving with retake...a fallacy that I later proved wrong on two instances.

The second was this past year... I got a C+ for electrophysics. Caught me offguard with the final 🙁

I was going to get a C in orgo the first time but late-dropped the course... same with calc II...got a B+ in the first upon retake and a B- in the latter... cause for my low GPA is basically just a lot of B's...

There is a slight positive trend, however. My AMCAS App shows this...

BCPM:

Fresh - 2.88
Soph - 2.84
Junior - 3.19

Cum GPA:

Fresh - 3.18
Soph - 3.09
Junior - 3.40
 
People have gotten in with all sorts of combinations, but there are no set rules for anything except for 1 - the higher you have in both, the better your chances will be; and the lower you have in both, the worse your chances will be. It sounds simple and stupid, but that's really all you can conclude.
 
drmax said:
I have 2 C+'s.

One was freshman year...intro chem. I was discouraged from retaking bc they claimed that I had very little chance of improving with retake...a fallacy that I later proved wrong on two instances.

The second was this past year... I got a C+ for electrophysics. Caught me offguard with the final 🙁

I was going to get a C in orgo the first time but late-dropped the course... same with calc II...got a B+ in the first upon retake and a B- in the latter... cause for my low GPA is basically just a lot of B's...

There is a slight positive trend, however. My AMCAS App shows this...

BCPM:

Fresh - 2.88
Soph - 2.84
Junior - 3.19

Cum GPA:

Fresh - 3.18
Soph - 3.09
Junior - 3.40
Click to expand...




I am in a similar situation, though my MCAT is not as good as yours. I got a 32S on the MCAT last August, but have some Cs without retakes. I guess the question is (and it's a very good question) whether someone with a very high MCAT and a 2.8-3.3 GPA can be a successful applicant without having to retake some classes in which a C was received.

//trayce
 
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well even if it's not certain now, some of us should remember to come back to this later and post what we experienced..

something i found a bit helpful was searching mdadmits for people that went to my school, and hey there were a few with not the hottest gpas and decent mcats that got in. of course there are more for the higher in each, but it lets you know there may be a shot 😎
 
Law2Doc said:
Even in that example it's not clear they are looking at the undergrad GPA at all -- they are focussing on the postbac/masters track record. So while the MCAT is icing on the cake, it may not be balancing out anything here.
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Uh, no...they are looking at everything. The MCAT and post-bacc balance the low gpa. It's semantics. My point is, no single thing can completely balance a low gpa on its own, but a number of impressive things together can come pretty close. MCAT is one possibility. Again, there's no arguing with the fact that it helps to have every part of your application strong.

It seems pretty obvious that having a high MCAT will help a low gpa, but for some reason when it is phrased in terms of a "sliding scale" people start to argue about it. Consider this thought experiment: If you looked at data for accepted students, you would almost certainly find that if divided into three groups: "Low GPA/Low MCAT", "Low GPA/ High MCAT" and "High/High", the relative success ratios of acceptances:applications, when adjusted for school difficulty, etc...would be High/High > Low/High > Low/Low. Granted, there is definitely not a "sliding scale" and you can't "bail yourself out" of a low gpa with a high mcat, but I just don't see the logic in arguing that a high MCAT does not in some way help a low gpa, statistically speaking.
 
Um, btw... I got a 32Q...Not a 35.

Sorry if that confused you guys. My MDapplication profile clearly shows that I got a VR: 13 PS: 10 BS: 9

More likely to get into DO programs with a 32Q/3.24/3.04 than into MD programs with a 32Q/3.24/2.99? (AACOMAS calculated a diff science GPA than AMCAS)
 
Zoom-Zoom said:
Uh, no...they are looking at everything. The MCAT and post-bacc balance the low gpa. It's semantics. My point is, no single thing can balance a low gpa on its own, but a number of impressive things together can. MCAT is one possibility. Again, there's no arguing with the fact that it helps to have every part of your application strong.
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Right. A strong MCAT will help balance a poor undergrad GPA if there is some proof that the crappy grades are behind you.

A good MCAT and poor undergrad GPA means one of two things: you are lazy or you WERE lazy and now you're not by evidence, your improved grades.

This idea is hashed over again and again. US medical schools are pretty good at picking their classes - they've done it for years, and there will never be a formula for what they are looking for. Criteria will change year to year based on the curriculum and course of the student body. By course, I mean specifically how previous selection criteria selected students and their obvious course through school - some classes have less/more of what the administration wants and those attributes can be tweaked every year.

Good luck
 
tracy34 said:
I am in a similar situation, though my MCAT is not as good as yours. I got a 32S on the MCAT last August, but have some Cs without retakes. I guess the question is (and it's a very good question) whether someone with a very high MCAT and a 2.8-3.3 GPA can be a successful applicant without having to retake some classes in which a C was received.

//trayce
Click to expand...

If I read that correctly, it looks like you're assuming you can replace poor grades with re-takes. And, you can't. Just FYI.
 
Take a given school's average MCAT. Add 10 times the school's average gpa. Subtract 1. Call this the school's NUMBER.

If your (gpa)(10) + MCAT = NUMBER then you are an adequate candidate academically (your ECs can raise or lower your strength as an applicant). (if you did a post-bach to make up for a poor undergrad gpa use the post-bach gpa times 8 rather than your undergrad gpa times 10).

If your NUMBER is 1-2 points higher, then you are an average candidate. More than 2 points higher, you have a better than 50-50 chance of getting an interview (most schools only interview a small fraction of the applicant pool).

If your NUMBER is 1-5 points lower but you bring some special skills or experience to the table, then you may be suitable for admission and have a shot at getting an interview if the circumstances are right.

If your number is >=79 you've got nothing to worry about. If your number is <50, you do not have a prayer.
 
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regarding re-takes: A conversation with the director of admissions for OHSU revealed the following pearl of wisdom. It is ok to retake, say, Ochem if you got a C the first time around. Since you have to list all your classes on AMCAS, the adcom will see both grades anyway. Let's assume you get an A the second time around. The adcom will say to themselves (at least at OHSU), "ok, fine. They should get an A since they've had it before". They will not be impressed with your retake grades, other than to acknowledge that you can succeed, perhaps due to previous exposure. I think it's better to retake than not, but don't put to much emphasis on your retake performance. Better still is to do well the first time around...
 
Zoom-Zoom said:
It seems pretty obvious that having a high MCAT will help a low gpa, but for some reason when it is phrased in terms of a "sliding scale" people start to argue about it.
Click to expand...

I basically agree with your post. However on SDN people seem to have the natural tendency to ask -- what MCAT do I need with a GPA of X.X? So people want there to be a set in stone sliding scale. There is none. Someone with a subpar GPA should fix it in a postbac, not expect some bizarrely high MCAT score to do the trick. And non-numerical things are part of the equation too.
 
LizzyM said:
Take a given school's average MCAT. Add 10 times the school's average gpa. Subtract 1. Call this the school's NUMBER.
Click to expand...

Hey Lizzy -

Is this something used across the board, or is this what your school uses? Just curious because the schools I've gotten feedback from all say I look like a great candidate, but with your formula I have a 69 based strictly on gpa and what I hope to shoot for on the MCAT.
 
Law2Doc said:
Always shoot for a 45. It won't happen, but might as well aim high.
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At this point I'm being realistic, though. I used a score that I feel confident in achieveing. I do not feel confident at this point about a 45, especially since no one in the past few years has achieved that.
 
megboo said:
Hey Lizzy -

Is this something used across the board, or is this what your school uses? Just curious because the schools I've gotten feedback from all say I look like a great candidate, but with your formula I have a 69 based strictly on gpa and what I hope to shoot for on the MCAT.
Click to expand...

My school doesn't use this per se, the process is more, let's say, a gut feeling or a qualitative assessment based on scores plus grades taking into account the difficulty of the school & major, the courses taken, the course load, etc, etc.

The formula, is my own invention based on my experience and should work with every school to which you apply.

If you hope to have a 69 then you should be competitive at most schools, no?
 
LizzyM said:
My school doesn't use this per se, the process is more, let's say, a gut feeling or a qualitative assessment based on scores plus grades taking into account the difficulty of the school & major, the courses taken, the course load, etc, etc.

The formula, is my own invention based on my experience and should work with every school to which you apply.

If you hope to have a 69 then you should be competitive at most schools, no?
Click to expand...

I hope that's competitive enough! 🙂
 
MCW does a sliding scale.

Some schools have cut offs. Like UW_Madison does 1 point in 6 areas- if u get 5 points ur in. 1 point is basically impossible to get, and is only given for super academic achievement. There might be a point given to minorities also for a freebie though I'm unsure on that.

One point is if u have over a 3.7
One point is 30 and above MCAT
One point is clinical
One point is interview
One point is LOR
(If i rememeber them right)

So if you have a 3.66..you're not getting in there whereas at MCQ u still might get in.
 
acrobat said:
MCW does a sliding scale.

Some schools have cut offs. Like UW_Madison does 1 point in 6 areas- if u get 5 points ur in. 1 point is basically impossible to get, and is only given for super academic achievement. There might be a point given to minorities also for a freebie though I'm unsure on that.

One point is if u have over a 3.7
One point is 30 and above MCAT
One point is clinical
One point is interview
One point is LOR
(If i rememeber them right)

So if you have a 3.66..you're not getting in there whereas at MCQ u still might get in.
Click to expand...


where did you find this out? i find this somewhat hard to believe...
 
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I talked to the people in the premed fraternities and some of the people who go to med school there.

I'm sure there are always exceptions.

I don't know if I got every detail correct, but they do havea point system and I know for sure you need to get 5 points. Once u have 5 you're in.

I'm not applying there so I haven't checked if things have changed in last year, but I doubt it. That school is hard to get in.

At the same time, having a 35 MCAT does not distinguish u as much as it does in other schools because a point is a point. If u have good grades, a descent MCAT (not necessarily spectacular). good LOR, good interview, and good expierence, well then you're in there.
 
You've got to get something for being a Wisconsin resident too...it's a lot harder to get into for out of state people.

After looking at MDApps, it seems clear that a 3.7 really isn't necessary
 
Well they do need alumni kids, minorities, disadvantaged, and disabled.

They graduated a blind doctor last year. They can't possibily hold everyone to the same standard and still get the diversity they desire.

I'm jsut talking about the general system. They give plentiful interviews for some reason to almsot ALL state residents, then reject them.
 
acrobat said:
Well they do need alumni kids, minorities, disadvantaged, and disabled.

They graduated a blind doctor last year. They can't possibily hold everyone to the same standard and still get the diversity they desire.

I'm jsut talking about the general system. They give plentiful interviews for some reason to almsot ALL state residents, then reject them.
Click to expand...

I'll really believe this if you get an adcom to back it up.
 
I don't buy the theory that if you have super academic acheivement, which assumes a good gpa & good MCAT, good EC and good LOR but a lousy interview you'll still get in. There are interviews that set off such alarm bells that no adcom worth the title would admit the applicant.
 
MCW vs. UW

I actually believe MCW is easier to get into than Madison.

If you have a 30 MCAT and say a 3.55, I'd say u're going to get a serious interview at MCW. At UW-Madison interviews so many that u cant tell if it's serious at all.
 
acrobat said:
MCW vs. UW

I actually believe MCW is easier to get into than Madison.

If you have a 30 MCAT and say a 3.55, I'd say u're going to get a serious interview at MCW. At UW-Madison interviews so many that u cant tell if it's serious at all.
Click to expand...

I have no problem believing you'll have a better chance at MCW...especially if you're early in the cycle. I have a hard time believing anything under a 3.7 is going to keep you out of Madison.
 
Lizzy are u an adcom?

Why do u subtract one point from your system?

Also that system you made weighs MCAT a lot more than GPA?

a 3.6 to a 3.7 gets you one point. That's a big jump.

From this idea

a 3.6 and a 34 MCAT is 70 points
a 3.8 and a 32 MCAT is 70 points

Do you really get that nuch out of your MCAT results?
 
Lizzy, assuming a discrepancy between the sci gpa and overall gpa, which would you prioritize as a factor in your equation? Average the two?
 
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