SLOE blues

[Harvey260]

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applying EM this upcoming year; trying to get my SLOEs in line.

i am rotating at a big, well-known, inner city trauma center in August. i'll be able to get an SLOE out of this rotation. i am pretty certain that i could find 2 people at this program to write an SLOE for me...but would that be acceptable?

i rotated through EM during 3rd year at a program that is very, very loosely affiliated with a couple EM residencies in the area; it's basically a site that several different EM programs send their interns to for a month--strange, i know. tons of MS3s and MS4s come through my program. lots of residents from other services rotate through this program. however, the clerkship director of this program does not have any affiliation with any of the EM residency programs...but she does observe a lot of medical students. is she able to write me a SLOE?

these would basically be my only SLOE letter writers going into september and october. the next available EM rotation that i could get in would be in mid november with an SLOE coming out in mid december.

my options:

1) 2 SLOEs by first day of ERAS submission --> 1 from my august EM rotation and 1 from my 3rd year non-residency affiliated clerkship director

2) 1 SLOE and 1 EM LOR from my 3rd year clerkship director by first day of ERAS submission and additional SLOE uploaded in mid december

3) try to get 2 SLOEs from my august EM rotation


anybody have any thoughts? it's not ideal. found out late that i wanted to do EM and could only get EM rotations in august and november/december of 4th year. my school won't budge on this.

DO student. 249ish step 1, 680ish COMLEX 1, makes a mean grilled-cheese.

thanks.

 

[lp430]

There's no way to do another EM rotation in June, July, September or October? I go to a DO school and decided late on EM as well, but was able to work things out.
Getting two SLOEs from the same program isn't going to work. Also, your third year rotation doesn't sound ideal for a good SLOE.
I think you really need to push for another rotation, whatever it takes.

 

[EDParallax]

applying EM this upcoming year; trying to get my SLOEs in line.

i am rotating at a big, well-known, inner city trauma center in August. i'll be able to get an SLOE out of this rotation. i am pretty certain that i could find 2 people at this program to write an SLOE for me...but would that be acceptable?

i rotated through EM during 3rd year at a program that is very, very loosely affiliated with a couple EM residencies in the area; it's basically a site that several different EM programs send their interns to for a month--strange, i know. tons of MS3s and MS4s come through my program. lots of residents from other services rotate through this program. however, the clerkship director of this program does not have any affiliation with any of the EM residency programs...but she does observe a lot of medical students. is she able to write me a SLOE?

these would basically be my only SLOE letter writers going into september and october. the next available EM rotation that i could get in would be in mid november with an SLOE coming out in mid december.

my options:

1) 2 SLOEs by first day of ERAS submission --> 1 from my august EM rotation and 1 from my 3rd year non-residency affiliated clerkship director

2) 1 SLOE and 1 EM LOR from my 3rd year clerkship director by first day of ERAS submission and additional SLOE uploaded in mid december

3) try to get 2 SLOEs from my august EM rotation


anybody have any thoughts? it's not ideal. found out late that i wanted to do EM and could only get EM rotations in august and november/december of 4th year. my school won't budge on this.

DO student. 249ish step 1, 680ish COMLEX 1, makes a mean grilled-cheese.

thanks.

Grilled cheese sounds good. I applied with one sloe, it worked out. The rest were recs including program directors.

Good luck!

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[StephBee]

CORD is supposedly going to start cracking down on a single program writing more than one sloe (or so my PD told me when she refused to let me do it this year). My suggestion is to do a sloe from your August, a regular lor from 3rd year( what I did) and try and eek out another away. Cover your bases that way.


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[whiplashWhoMD]

I matched just fine with 1 academic center SLOE and 1 SLOE from my home clerkship director (we don't have an EM residency). Then of course a third "character" letter or whatever. Assuming all other things are good enough, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Petypet]

One thing you didn't mention is DO vs MD. Guessing with step 1 you have an interest in ACGME EM, and in that case you should have at least 1 SLOE from ACGME. That said, I am guessing your 3rd year clerkship rotation was from an AOA institution, and for most programs that want step 1 they probably want an ACGME SLOE. Certainly you can match at smaller ACGME sites with your scores and AOA SLOE but go big or go home with those scores.

 

[SurgeDO]

You'll be fine with 1 SLOE. My classmate had similar scores with 1 SLOE and he got a lot of interviews at big name places.

 

[gro2001]

My understanding is multiple SLOEs from one program are essentially viewed as just one SLOE (since it speaks of only one experience) with the slight additional shadow of doubt that perhaps there is something other than scheduling that prevented you from being able to get letters from other programs. I ended up getting my initial SLOEs from the same program and then adding another one somewhat late in the cycle (around November), and that was less than ideal. Still, I matched at my top choice.

First of all, ask if your 3rd year clerkship director can write you an SLOE. If she can, then with that and your August SLOE you have 2, which is OK. If not, I would still stick with 1 SLOE from August and 1 regular LOR from your clerkship director to start and then do everything possible to do another away as early as possible in the cycle.

 

[gman33]

3rd year rotation, no sloe as they are not a residency program. Get a regular lor if you can.

Upcoming rotation get a sloe and maybe just an additional lor from an individual attending if you can. Make sure to ask them if they would feel comfortable writing you an "outstanding letter."

Lastly see if you can get an away somewhere else by September. Look at every place in existence with a program and be willing to change your schedule to make this happen.
Drop anything that is standing in your way.
Call in favors if need be.

Can you match without another sloe or rotation, sure.

I just don't want to see your thread next year about what to do since you didn't match.

Do everything you can to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Harvey260]

One thing you didn't mention is DO vs MD. Guessing with step 1 you have an interest in ACGME EM, and in that case you should have at least 1 SLOE from ACGME. That said, I am guessing your 3rd year clerkship rotation was from an AOA institution, and for most programs that want step 1 they probably want an ACGME SLOE. Certainly you can match at smaller ACGME sites with your scores and AOA SLOE but go big or go home with those scores.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'll be applying MD. Hoping for a spot in Michigan. Specifically a detroit program.

I was thinking that I could interview in January so my December SLOE will be in by then.

 

[gro2001]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'll be applying MD. Hoping for a spot in Michigan. Specifically a detroit program.

I was thinking that I could interview in January so my December SLOE will be in by then.

You may need the second SLOE to get invites. My November SLOE was a little too late to help with that, so December would be way too late. I would say do your best to re-arrange your schedule so you get your SLOE by October at the latest. Also, remember that there is often some lead time after you finish your rotation before your SLOE is ready.

 

[gogodre]

I would try real hard to get a second SLOE from somewhere else. If you can't get an away through VSAS start calling programs. My home program made having only SLOEs from only one place sound like a negative. Also interviewing strictly in Janury is probably a bad idea. Many places finish in December or only have a couple Janury dates available.

 

[Jlaw]

Go with 1 SLOE from the academic place and get a regular letter from the non residency clerkship director because SLOE's can only be filled out by a residency program. You are also going to want to get 1 or 2 other LOR from other non EM rotations to pad your app a bit.

1 SLOE is not ideal but with your scores its probably not a deal breaker. But having 1 letter will cost you some interviews so if I were you I would beg my school to unf*ck themselves and let me do a 2nd audition rotation. There is really no reason for them to not let you do more EM rotations during audition season.

Getting a SLOE in December is not worth it, any program that cared enough to want a 2nd SLOE would have already put your application on ignore and filled their interview/wait list spots long before.

 

[retro]

Hey man, I was in a similar boat with you last year. All I had were 1 acgme SLOE and 1 EM LOR from 3rd year throughout the whole application season. I actually had one more SLOE that I did not release (b/c I thought it would be a crappy one). Make sure that your 1 SLOE is a solid one, and you'll be fine.

I'm also a DO student with slightly lower scores than yours, and I can't make a mean grilled cheese either. I somehow managed to secure a good number of invites. Good luck!

 

[EKGdoc]

I don't think SLOEs from M3 rotations carry much weight. You don't have the kind of experience at that stage or get the level of experience you'd get in an M4 rotation. Agree with others you should bust it to get an earlier second M4 rotation. Multiple SLOEs from same program aren't usually much help, and most programs are writing a single "program SLOE" which is a summary of all your evals and scores. As a former PD in ACGME program for >20 yrs (and am also a DO) your situation from a DO school not necessarily uncommon so you have to put the pedal to the metal for that 2nd rotation. Your scores are pretty good and should be competitive (for programs taking DO's), but the 2nd SLOE will probably be more critical for ranking if your 1st SLOE is solid. A strong second SLOE will score you even more interviews though. Keep up the good work.

 

[rimbleton]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am in a similar situation as OP. Doing one away in August, and hopefully trying to secure an away in September. What is the turnaround time for SLOE's usually? If I finish my second away in early to mid October, when is a reasonable time to expect that second SLOE by?

 

[Petypet]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am in a similar situation as OP. Doing one away in August, and hopefully trying to secure an away in September. What is the turnaround time for SLOE's usually? If I finish my second away in early to mid October, when is a reasonable time to expect that second SLOE by?

10-40 days in my experience

 

[Harvey260]

I don't think SLOEs from M3 rotations carry much weight. You don't have the kind of experience at that stage or get the level of experience you'd get in an M4 rotation. Agree with others you should bust it to get an earlier second M4 rotation. Multiple SLOEs from same program aren't usually much help, and most programs are writing a single "program SLOE" which is a summary of all your evals and scores. As a former PD in ACGME program for >20 yrs (and am also a DO) your situation from a DO school not necessarily uncommon so you have to put the pedal to the metal for that 2nd rotation. Your scores are pretty good and should be competitive (for programs taking DO's), but the 2nd SLOE will probably be more critical for ranking if your 1st SLOE is solid. A strong second SLOE will score you even more interviews though. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the advice.

Seriously, thanks a lot everyone. I honestly thought my questions were gonna be written off and go unanswered. Really goes to show how great the EM community and those who are apart of it really are.

Trying to get an EM rotation in September. If not, I'll have to work with what I got. I'm not going for any ivory towers; inner city, underfunded community hospitals are more my style.

Thank you all for the encouragement and advice.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Hey,

Similar situation to OP, but MD, not DO.

Step 1 almost identical to OP, home rotation in August, third year rotation with sloe, and an away ending in early October. Would really like to keep the away, but is it likely to screw me up? Should I dive back into VSAS and go for something that ends a week or two earlier (best I can hope for), or try to get something in July? I feel like it's too late for July at this point, but I could be wrong I guess.

Thanks

 

[gro2001]

Hey,

Similar situation to OP, but MD, not DO.

Step 1 almost identical to OP, home rotation in August, third year rotation with sloe, and an away ending in early October. Would really like to keep the away, but is it likely to screw me up? Should I dive back into VSAS and go for something that ends a week or two earlier (best I can hope for), or try to get something in July? I feel like it's too late for July at this point, but I could be wrong I guess.

Thanks

You will have 2 SLOEs in time to apply (from 3rd year and from your home rotation in August) and may have a 3rd SLOE chaser a little later. It's fine. I wouldn't stress too much over it.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

You will have 2 SLOEs in time to apply (from 3rd year and from your home rotation in August) and may have a 3rd SLOE chaser a little later. It's fine. I wouldn't stress too much over it.

Thanks, that's helpful. I've been told that 3rd year SLOE's don't count for much, but they still work for screening stuff?

 

[Cinclus]

Thanks, that's helpful. I've been told that 3rd year SLOE's don't count for much, but they still work for screening stuff?

If it's a SLOE, it counts a LOT. Period.

 

[gro2001]

Thanks, that's helpful. I've been told that 3rd year SLOE's don't count for much, but they still work for screening stuff?

I don't know. I think it really depends on what your 3rd year experience was like and what's written in the SLOE. If the writer said they would rank you to match, then it will probably work. If it's clear from the SLOE that they can't really assess you properly because your experience was limited by the fact that this was a 3rd year clerkship (limiting what you could do in the department, whether and how many patients you saw, who you presented to, etc) then it won't count for much.

 

[Angry Birds]

Did the name change from SLOR to SLOE?

 

[sylvanthus]

Yupper

 

[Angry Birds]

Yupper

What did I say about saying "yuppurs?"

 

[sylvanthus]

Bahhh