Smug and Condescending

[Espressso]

tldr this entire thread, just the original post.. but regardless of how dramatic the OP may be, I kind of agree. I think generally medical students i know have been more than helpful in my process, but on SDN, it's almost like a game of who can be more of a gunner. A lot of people I notice tend to be as harsh as possible, trying to one up the previous reply. Silly to me. But what are you going to do about it. As many others have mentioned before, take these forums with a big ol' grain of salt.

It's sad sometimes though because you can't help but think someone's dream is getting crushed by a random person who hasn't matriculated yet.

We're all basically a bunch of headless chickens, running in circles, trying to prove to everyone else that we still have our head on.

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[Cyberdyne 101]

Ah, another case of the "SDN is a pool of gunners" misnomer. Granted, a lot of the regulars are in the upper gpa/mcat brackets, but it's categorically false to claim that people who have a realistic chance of getting into med school have their dreams shot down when they ask for advice. If anything, the site tends to give conservative projections, which help prevent disastrous and costly app cycles.

 

[Lawpy]

tldr this entire thread, just the original post.. but regardless of how dramatic the OP may be, I kind of agree. I think generally medical students i know have been more than helpful in my process, but on SDN, it's almost like a game of who can be more of a gunner. A lot of people I notice tend to be as harsh as possible, trying to one up the previous reply. Silly to me. But what are you going to do about it. As many others have mentioned before, take these forums with a big ol' grain of salt.

It's sad sometimes though because you can't help but think someone's dream is getting crushed by a random person who hasn't matriculated yet.

We're all basically a bunch of headless chickens, running in circles, trying to prove to everyone else that we still have our head on.

This is why the only advice you should pay attention to is those from adcoms and faculty involved in admissions. And a few experienced medical students and members like @WedgeDawg and @DokterMom

 

[takeurmeds02]

Oh god, so many incorrect apostrophes strewn around willy nilly

T'L;D'R'

But honestly, very rarely are people truly called out with subpar stats. In most cases, there will always be someone who is being facetious (probably me) but there are 9x more people willing to offer real suggestions.

The true nasty comments come in when people give you off-the-wall stats and you're thinking, "did you seriously ask if you were competitive?" If you spend ANY time on this forum (which you should before posting), you'd get an idea of where your stats lie in the grand scheme of applicants.

 

[bananafish94]

I think the take-home point is that you can be realistic and conservative with your advice without being condescending and arrogant. Some people can definitely use some tough love, like my roommate who has a 494 MCAT and applied to 12 OOS public schools. By and large, the overwhelming majority of advice I've received on SDN has been very good, although I do think that the groupthink mentality poses problems sometimes.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

If tell a smart undergrad to get away from academia, non-profits, service industry like medicine, and any patient care ASAP and find work with a group focused on making money and in an arena with minimal regulations and zero interaction with community college educated support staff.

wat

Research experience was in the social sciences with no pubs. The most "outstanding" EC on my app was having 5 years of direct pt. experience that allowed for some easier access to shadowing as well. Ironically, the first time I applied I was waitlisted where I ultimately matriculated the second time around. When I met with the dean of admissions after being waitlisted the first time the majority of the comments from the admissions committee related to me not have enough "medical experience" - only 2 comments were about my GPA and there was no change in my "medical experience(s)" the second time around.

What did they mean by 'medical experience'? You said you had 5 years direct pt contact, are they somehow differentiating from the @LizzyM definition of clinical experience?

 

[Turkishking]

It really bothers me how some med students or residents are when they address aspiring med students in these forums who have below average GPAs because of whatever reason, but are sincere about turning their fortunes around by being more academically inclined , doing post-baccs and SMP's, doing very very well in the MCAT.

There was one thread where a guy was looking for advice on how he could redeem his less than stellar GPA ( 3.2 ) in the eyes of ADCOMS in terms of shadowing, extra curriculars , doing an SMP and nailing it, doing very good on the MCAT, ect..

It saddens me to see that the majority of replies were somewhere along the lines of " you have no chance, do something else, Kanye West has a better chance of becoming the president of the United States than you getting in , ect..." . It is unbelievably condescending and smug. Is that how a future doctor or current healthcare professional handles other people? I thought the very core of medicine was just as much about compassion, empathy, support and unconditional love for those in need as it is about raw intelligence, academic success , high skill levels and such. To be fair, people with 3.1 GPA's have been admitted to Ivy League Med Schools before, so instead of being constructive and showing support to someone who is obviously in need , why would you crush his hopes like that? I know you will raise the argument that you are just being a realist. Actually, you're not. The things you say cannot be done, have been done before, unlikely as it may seem. If only the world , the US in particular, produces more doctor's who are as compassionate as they are smart , the world would be a better place. For now, there is certainly an abundance of smug, entitled , condescending geeks.

truth hurts . I wouldn't consider myself a condescending geek

 

[Sardinia]

Do you guys not have an HPO Committee in your undergraduate institution? Those people are ruthless.

 

[Goro]

100% agree

But honestly, very rarely are people truly called out with subpar stats. In most cases, there will always be someone who is being facetious (probably me) but there are 9x more people willing to offer real suggestions.


SDNers are rather altruistic, despite the angst and hyper neuroses. They also do not suffer fools lightly, and will pounce upon people coming here for affirmation of foolish notions, rather than seeking realistic advice.

The true nasty comments come in when people give you off-the-wall stats and you're thinking, "did you seriously ask if you were competitive?" If you spend ANY time on this forum (which you should before posting), you'd get an idea of where your stats lie in the grand scheme of applicants.[/QUOTE]

 

[PossibleDOC?]

'twas, and where I ended up; but I still managed 4 OOS MD interviews and 3 OOS MD acceptances with nothing particularly outstanding objectively (see other posts in this thread).

Lol you're in a lucky state try using those stats to get into a school in Cali, NY, NJ, or Texas and i'm sure the results would've been different

 

[darkjedi]

Or one very happy Chinese girl.

god damn it, i've been on sdn for too long

 

[darkjedi]

If anything, I think the people here and WAMC tend to lean more encouraging/optimistic. I feel like most people tend to avoid replying to some of the weaker applications, because most normal people don't actually like to crush other people's hopes and dreams.

 

[ZedsDed]

You guys must not internet very often. If you really want to lose your faith in humanity I suggest you try your luck with the following cesspools:
http://www.4chan.org/
https://www.reddit.com/
Still think SDN is "toxic?"

 

[jtd2081]

To be blunt I don't understand why you care. If someone is being smug or condescending simply don't respond to their post. It is as simple as that. This is the internet. You have the ability to look away from the screen and enjoy the real world instead of dwelling on what someone said to you on a public forum. I have had nothing but positive experiences on this website and people, more often than not, are willing to provide any advice they can give. Sometimes people need the slap in the face to look at the facts instead of thinking they are special. This isn't kindergarten T-ball. Not everyone is going to get a trophy at the end of the day. Also what ZedsDed said lol. This is nothing compared to those websites.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Meh this website is brutally honest. 3.2 GPA means statistically it is unlikely you will gain admission. For better or worse people don't really sugar coat things when they're anonymous and on a message board.

Also, while there's plenty of compassion between patients and physicians, there is markedly less between physicians themselves (especially when one is senior to the other). Med school and residency isn't flowers and rainbows, if you are objectively sub par you will be informed often and in an unpleasant fashion.

Also, look at the condescending people as motivators. Itll fire you up to try to prove the haters wrong

 

[When the Moon Forgot]

(Content redacted to preserve anonymity)

 

[To be MD]

link?

Okay, that made me laugh.

But... OP. You right. We need to lighten up a bit on WAMC. Then again, that forum has a lot of people who are actually involved in the admissions process.

While it's totally inappropriate to tell someone that she's never going to be a doctor because of a low GPA, I think it's equally inappropriate to tell someone he has a good chance at applying MD with a 500 MCAT score.

People on here can be tough on one another, but, overall, we're just trying to fashion the world's best doctors. People on here are, generally, high-achievers who love medicine and love this website. They're willing to spend 30mins+ a day on an online forum, answering random questions from a large, eclectic bunch of premeds. Match a large volume of questions with a small volume of qualified med school wizards, and you get a lot of blunt answers.

Most important, you have to develop a thick skin on the internet and as a doctor. People are going to tell you that you can't do X or Y or that you'll never be able to do Z. History has proven X, Y, and Z happen all the time. Take whatever advice, hatred, or praise people give you on this forum with a grain of salt. It's the internet, after all.

You're an outlier. I'll stick to advising off of medians. My advice isn't the Word of God.

Goroism isn't the one, true religion!?

 

[tskbdmnd]

I think the med students have good reason to look at someone with a 3.2 and tell them they won't make it. It's because a 3.2 is often indicative of you not doing what is expected of you as a pre-med student. Worse than that. Why does he need to add more shadowing and ECs while he's thinking about an SMP? He should have 50 hours of shadowing and multiple years of ECs already completed before thinking about an SMP.

That guy has taken -0.8 steps toward becoming a doctor.

 

[Monkey.King]

SDN premed a are condescending jerks who have no compassion or humanity for helping others and are only useful for crushing dreams of students who aren't top students and blah blah blah

SDN is hardly the only reliable tool available for premeds. You can always just search around or ask for reliable sources here like clicking the compilation of essential SDN wisdom thread that's pinned (that sounds like a pretty important thread. And it's pinned! Why wouldn't you click on it) If you don't like what's said here, look elsewhere. There's all kinds of places to look like your premed advisor, close reliable premed friends, premed101 (idk about that one, never been there but read about) and my favorite,Google. Googling something like, I don't know, how to be competitive for med school with a low GPA/MCAT. Something like that fits the bill. By the way, is Google a dirty word here? I see many threads that could have been avoided entirely if they knew what Google was.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Lol you're in a lucky state try using those stats to get into a school in Cali, NY, NJ, or Texas and i'm sure the results would've been different

Only 1 interview/acceptance was in-state, the rest were out of state; and not nearby, regional friendly schools. Outside of my MCAT there was nothing outstanding objectively on my app.

 

[Taddy Mason]

What did they mean by 'medical experience'? You said you had 5 years direct pt contact, are they somehow differentiating from the @LizzyM definition of clinical experience?

See post 48...

 

[Sardinia]

Alternative thread titles could have potentially been: "Smug and smugger" or "Condescendingly condescending." I think showing off knowledge of synonyms in thread titles is a symptom of smugness and am frankly offended by this egregiousness.

 

[dougy]

Only 1 interview/acceptance was in-state, the rest were out of state; and not nearby, regional friendly schools. Outside of my MCAT there was nothing outstanding objectively on my app.

we get it, your an outlier. i'm an outlier. people buy lottery tickets and win too, but they are not considered investments. An advisor worth his salt would not tell you to invest in improbable returns.

 

[W19]

View attachment 204891

SDN is hardly the only reliable tool available for premeds. You can always just search around or ask for reliable sources here like clicking the compilation of essential SDN wisdom thread that's pinned (that sounds like a pretty important thread. And it's pinned! Why wouldn't you click on it) If you don't like what's said here, look elsewhere. There's all kinds of places to look like your premed advisor, close reliable premed friends, premed101 (idk about that one, never been there but read about) and my favorite,Google. Googling something like, I don't know, how to be competitive for med school with a low GPA/MCAT. Something like that fits the bill. By the way, is Google a dirty word here? I see many threads that could have been avoided entirely if they knew what Google was.

Please don't.....! Most of them are worthless.

 

[jl lin]

This is why the only advice you should pay attention to is those from adcoms and faculty involved in admissions. And a few experienced medical students and members like @WedgeDawg and @DokterMom

Yes but quite a number of residents, fellows, and attending physicians seem to believe that so many are unduly discouraging. I can hear it all, and I still have the ability to weigh things out and make up my own mind. I understand there is a need to listen to those that give the statistical realities. Absolutely. But each person is an individual. Each has to walk his/her own path and see where it goes. You might be surprised how many physicians will tell you that it is more or less a determination game for many. Learn the odds, but don't get easily discouraged unless you aren't sure this is the right path for you. There does seem to be sort of a social Darwinism going on, if you you will. At the least, it may be viewed in such a way.

 

[Taddy Mason]

we get it, your an outlier. i'm an outlier. people buy lottery tickets and win too, but they are not considered investments. An advisor worth his salt would not tell you to invest in improbable returns.

I was simply responding to a poster who glossed over the previous posts in this thread. Yes, number-wise I'm statistically an outlier, the point I'm trying to make is that people on here get so caught up with numbers only and don't acknowledge/downplay the full potential of personal statements, interviews, ECs (...and they don't need to be dramatic...), etc. It's pretty improbable that I just happened to hit-up 5 slot machines that were ready to pay-out...

Edit - read your post history, you're not an outlier @dougy - sorry if you were #triggered

 

[freak7]

Goroism isn't the one, true religion!?

Found my new Civ 5 religion name

 

[Taddy Mason]

Found my new Civ 5 religion name

Civ 6 comes out this fall and I'll be in the middle of third year.....more proof there is no God....

 

[Green Grass]

You better get some thick skin...and fast.

 

[Taco Time]

SDN has been an invaluable resource, for myself at least. Sure, some advice hashed out around here can come off as being slightly pessimistic and melodramatic, but by and large, it is a great asset. You should reference stats+demographics with the published data for matriculated students for the sake of comparison if you feel like the advice given out on this forum is way off base with unwarranted reservation. This site also offers advice on tons of the other hoops of getting into med school besides stats.

I just finished my first year of medical school at a mid-tier allopathic school as a traditional, caucasian/ORM, 23 year-old student. After graduating high school with a full merit-based scholarship in hand, I wasn't even sure if I wanted to attend college because I found myself at an impasse with little known of what college entailed and what it took to succeed. Both of my parents' families immigrated to the United States when they were older teens, and I was the first to graduate high school and go to college within a mile of anyone I was related to. Plus the community I was a part of wasn't exactly made up of tons of professionals that had pursued education seriously. I could have sifted my way through college on some hapless, generic advice from a counselor, but there's no way I would have known to jump through all the hoops needed to get into medical school. All the advice given on this forum for ECs, getting through classes, taking and doing well on the MCAT, LOR, research, etc. were a big part in helping me get into one of my top choices.

SDN helps even the playing field for lots of prospective students. Still, If a poster is malicious or misleading, there's a problem, but these responses are dwindled in amongst the masses of helpful insight offered on this site. The old adage of knowledge is power holds true as does taking every piece of advice with a grain of salt. Still yet, good advice isn't always good music to the ears.

 

[Stagg737]

Lol you're in a lucky state try using those stats to get into a school in Cali, NY, NJ, or Texas and i'm sure the results would've been different

Texas? That doesn't sound right to me. It may be the most IS friendly state there is, especially considering you have to fill out a completely separate application to apply there (other than Baylor). I know several people from Texas and pretty much all of them were pretty happy about being Texans when application time came around...

 

[Taddy Mason]

Texas? That doesn't sound right to me. It may be the most IS friendly state there is, especially considering you have to fill out a completely separate application to apply there (other than Baylor). I know several people from Texas and pretty much all of them were pretty happy about being Texans when application time came around...

If you look at the stats there are much better states than Texas. Just being IS where I'm from gets ~50% of IS applicants an interview. Dat in state Texas tuition though....

 

[freak7]

Civ 6 comes out this fall and I'll be in the middle of third year.....more proof there is no God....

According to Goroism there is, he's just grumpy.

 

[makennacompton]

Like I said, broad application (or just hit up low-mid tier exclusively). With your MCAT, a big enough net would get most people in somewhere if the rest of their app is in order.

Not if they are OOS from Texas. Only the rare few non-Texas med schools ever interview applicants from Texas. Even with a great GPA and MCAT, odds are no interview. This is one of the fundamental prejudices and truths of the admissions process. Forget OOS if you apply outside Texas

 

[ditritium monoxide]

This is an anonymous forum. Change your profile picture...

 

[Weirdy]

Alternative thread titles could have potentially been: "Smug and smugger" or "Condescendingly condescending." I think showing off knowledge of synonyms in thread titles is a symptom of smugness and am frankly offended by this egregiousness.

This post is condescending and its offending me. Hmph.

 

[mehc012]

For what it's worth, I had under a 3.2 when I started posting on SDN, and while there were some stern warnings "with that gpa, you'll need a lot of work to have even a shot", etc...I also got great advice. I hit up the nontrad forums, the postbacc ones, Pre-Allo, and eventually WAMC. And, once my posts started including the advice I had already taken from SDN, the posts became more and more encouraging, until finally people were telling me I had a good shot despite my still-low gpa.

SDN generalizes, sure, but it's also a matter of demonstrating why you think you will be above average for your stats pool.

It's not all negativity. SDN is probably the #1 reason why I'm sitting here stressing about all the **** I need to do before starting school next month.

 

[lesil]

It really bothers me how some med students or residents are when they address aspiring med students in these forums who have below average GPAs because of whatever reason, but are sincere about turning their fortunes around by being more academically inclined , doing post-baccs and SMP's, doing very very well in the MCAT.

There was one thread where a guy was looking for advice on how he could redeem his less than stellar GPA ( 3.2 ) in the eyes of ADCOMS in terms of shadowing, extra curriculars , doing an SMP and nailing it, doing very good on the MCAT, ect..

It saddens me to see that the majority of replies were somewhere along the lines of " you have no chance, do something else, Kanye West has a better chance of becoming the president of the United States than you getting in , ect..." . It is unbelievably condescending and smug. Is that how a future doctor or current healthcare professional handles other people? I thought the very core of medicine was just as much about compassion, empathy, support and unconditional love for those in need as it is about raw intelligence, academic success , high skill levels and such. To be fair, people with 3.1 GPA's have been admitted to Ivy League Med Schools before, so instead of being constructive and showing support to someone who is obviously in need , why would you crush his hopes like that? I know you will raise the argument that you are just being a realist. Actually, you're not. The things you say cannot be done, have been done before, unlikely as it may seem. If only the world , the US in particular, produces more doctor's who are as compassionate as they are smart , the world would be a better place. For now, there is certainly an abundance of smug, entitled , condescending geeks.

What drives me crazy is when your question is already answered and they still comment, talking to you like you're an idiot. Edit: Lol, I wasn't trying to be ironic by posting months later. I just needed to vent.

 

[freak7]

What drives me crazy is when your question is already answered and they still comment, talking to you like you're an idiot.

Dat necrobump

 

[lesil]

To be blunt I don't understand why you care. If someone is being smug or condescending simply don't respond to their post. It is as simple as that. This is the internet. You have the ability to look away from the screen and enjoy the real world instead of dwelling on what someone said to you on a public forum. I have had nothing but positive experiences on this website and people, more often than not, are willing to provide any advice they can give. Sometimes people need the slap in the face to look at the facts instead of thinking they are special. This isn't kindergarten T-ball. Not everyone is going to get a trophy at the end of the day. Also what ZedsDed said lol. This is nothing compared to those websites.

Is this how you talk to your patients? Maybe you need to learn how to provide honest advice without being condescending. It will determine which patients will come back and which patients will sue you.

 

[freak7]

Is this how you talk to your patients? Maybe you need to learn how to provide honest advice without being condescending. It will determine which patients will come back and which patients will sue you.

This thread died six months ago. Please let it rest in peace, I don't want it to come back to life.

 

[libertyyne]

This thread died six months ago. Please let it rest in peace, I don't want it to come back to life.

There should be a warning and a captcha if you are about to bump a thread that is greater than a month old.

 

[freak7]

There should be a warning and a captcha if you are about to bump a thread that is greater than a month old.

Except for the "Worst Admissions Staff" thread. That needs to be bumped as much as possible.